MSPP Misrepresented in Insider's Guide?

[Psych 111]

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I only applied to a few professional schools and MSPP was one of them. Amongst other things, I took into consideration internship statistics and, on page 211 of 2010/2011 Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling, it reports "Percentage of students applying for internships last year accepted into APPIC or APA internships: 100%" I thought that looked pretty good. I applied.

I get a call yesterday to invite me to MSPP for an advance-standing interview. I start flipping through their website and find the following:


Internship Year 2008-2009: APPIC Internship: 0, APA Accredited Internship: 8 (7%).


"Many MSPP internships have not sought accreditation and/or APPIC
membership because of cost; others have not done so because they cannot meet all of the
criteria set out by APA and/or APPIC such as the requirement of a substantial stipend."



I guess I put too much faith into that book. How disappointing.

 

[starsinnight]

Oh that really sucks... I have used that book like my bible. But I guess I will take it all with a grain of salt and double check everything else from now on.

So would you still go there, I guess thats the bigger question.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The Insider's Guide is a great place to start, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor in a program because the information is self-reported, so definitely keep that in mind. It was the only thing I had to go off of when I was looking (pre-SDN days!), though it was far from comprehensive. A couple of years ago I started to write a "How To" guide for prospective psychology applicants, but then life/training got in the way; one of these years I'll finish it. I am somewhat happy I didn't get it all the way done because there have been a number of changes in regard to internship that would have required quite a few re-writes!

 

[Psych 111]

Oh that really sucks... I have used that book like my bible. But I guess I will take it all with a grain of salt and double check everything else from now on.

So would you still go there, I guess thats the bigger question.

Well I have an interview but now I'm wondering if I should cancel it. The implications of not having an APA accred. internship is kind of warding me away. That and $30k a year. The idea of coming out of MSPP with an additional $100k+ in debt (tuition alone, not including cost of living and current student loans), difficulties obtaining licensure (in some states), and the inability to obtain particular jobs (for instance, the VA, the number one employer of psychologists)..I dont know.

Objectively, it seems like a poor decision. I have applied to doctoral programs several times and have 40+ rejection letters to show for it. Years of experience in my niche of psychology, publications, great GPA, great letters of rec, etc. I've worked hard to look appealing. This is the first year I applied to PsyD programs and perhaps I've become blinded by my own ambition. I'm just excited for an interview even though I *know* it's a poor choice.

Damn introspection.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

This is the first year I applied to PsyD programs and perhaps I've become blinded by my own ambition. I'm just excited for an interview even though I *know* it's a poor choice.

Damn introspection.

This is a very very good observation. The process wears you down, and many applicants just want to get SOMETHING. I can't speak to MSPP specifically, but it would behoove you to try and avoid debt as much as possible. Student loan $'s are even more expensive now, compare to 10 years ago. Paying 1-2% in interest is one thing, but paying 6.8% (the current stafford loan rate) gets REALLY expensive. I brought undergrad debt with me to grad school, and my plan is to marry rich.

 

[psydtobe]

its sounds like you have had a long journey. i guess it would benefit you to evalute why you WANT to go there, or is that match rate a dealbreaker? the money is definitely a significant factor. i wouldn't advise you to buy an expensive car you didn't really want...but i don't know if that analogy translates here 😉 have you looked into what they can offer you in terms of financing because that is a hefty pricetag for something you are not 100% about.

 

[Psych 111]

its sounds like you have had a long journey. i guess it would benefit you to evalute why you WANT to go there, or is that match rate a dealbreaker? the money is definitely a significant factor. i wouldn't advise you to buy an expensive car you didn't really want...but i don't know if that analogy translates here 😉 have you looked into what they can offer you in terms of financing because that is a hefty pricetag for something you are not 100% about.

I want to go there for the forensic psychology training. This is my interest and my background. To do what I'd like to within the field of forensic psychology, I need a doctorate degree. However, correctional facilities tend to be government operated. Theres the rub.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You don't need a program with a "concentration" in forensic psychology, as there are many quality programs out there that will result in being prepared to work in the forensic setting.

 

[FadedC]

Is it possible that the insider guide is reporting the percentage of applicants who apply to APPIC and are accepted, while the college website is reporting the total percentage including students who did not apply?

I attend a school psychology PhD program and we would have similar numbers. Almost everyone who applies for a APPIC internship gets one, so our match rates are 100% most years. However only a small percent actually apply so if you looked at our match rate as a percent of the total cohort (which I believe is listed on our program website) it would only be about 20% or so. Of course it's a little different in school psych where an APA internship is much less important.

 

[Psych 111]

Is it possible that the insider guide is reporting the percentage of applicants who apply to APPIC and are accepted, while the college website is reporting the total percentage including students who did not apply?

I attend a school psychology PhD program and we would have similar numbers. Almost everyone who applies for a APPIC internship gets one, so our match rates are 100% most years. However only a small percent actually apply so if you looked at our match rate as a percent of the total cohort (which I believe is listed on our program website) it would only be about 20% or so. Of course it's a little different in school psych where an APA internship is much less important.

I called the Dean. He returned my call and left a voicemail saying just that. He stated most students dont apply for APA/APPIC internships (they usually take a nonaccred. internship in one of many placement sites in New England) but, of the ones who did, 100% received one. That's a small N though. Still seems awful risky considering I want to work in correctional facilitites. Also, if you were to seek an APA internship it would require an additional year of graduate school. You would have to complete the school requirements of a part-time, 2-year internship in addition to the APA internship. If they charge tuition during internship, thats another $30,000+.

Other thoughts, comments, concerns?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I called the Dean. He returned my call and left a voicemail saying just that. He stated most students dont apply for APA/APPIC internships (they usually take a nonaccred. internship in one of many placement sites in New England) but, of the ones who did, 100% received one. That's a small N though. Still seems awful risky considering I want to work in correctional facilitites. Also, if you were to seek an APA internship it would require an additional year of graduate school. You would have to complete the school requirements of a part-time, 2-year internship in addition to the APA internship. If they charge tuition during internship, thats another $30,000+.

Other thoughts, comments, concerns?

This is standard at ANY program, as an internship year is require for ALL licensure boards, and the vast majority require a post-doc year after the intern year. As an aside, the $30k price tag may change some on internship, but obviously you are 6-figures in debt before you leave for internship.

 

[FadedC]

I called the Dean. He returned my call and left a voicemail saying just that. He stated most students dont apply for APA/APPIC internships (they usually take a nonaccred. internship in one of many placement sites in New England) but, of the ones who did, 100% received one. That's a small N though. Still seems awful risky considering I want to work in correctional facilitites. Also, if you were to seek an APA internship it would require an additional year of graduate school. You would have to complete the school requirements of a part-time, 2-year internship in addition to the APA internship. If they charge tuition during internship, thats another $30,000+.

Other thoughts, comments, concerns?

Not only is it a small N, but there's a big self-selection bias there. The students who are willing to go through the extra trouble of getting APA internships in a school that does not encourage it are likely to be much more prepared and qualified for it then the average student. Of course that could end up describing you as well.

One way to get past the small N problem is to find out stats for placement across multiple years. I found this listed somewhere online, but I can't remember where. In my own program it wasn't helpful to know that 100% of the 2 students who applied in the last year were accepted. It was somewhat more helpful to know that 93% of the students in the last 10 years (or something like that) were accepted though. Though again there is still the self-selection bias there.

 

[Psych 111]

This is standard at ANY program, as an internship year is require for ALL licensure boards, and the vast majority require a post-doc year after the intern year. As an aside, the $30k price tag may change some on internship, but obviously you are 6-figures in debt before you leave for internship.

The default route at MSPP is you do your internship over year 3 and 4. You stay local (New England area) and go half-time. That is their internship requirement. If you were to seek an APA internship, you would have to complete it in addition. Therefore, you would be completing two internships. That is how I understand it anyway?

 

[Flutterbyu]

I am an MSPP alum and currently completing an APA accredited postdoc in neuropsychology at a VA. MSPP does not require an APA accredited internship, as the half-time internship fulfills licensure requirements and a large number of MSPP grads go on to work in the private sector or community health settings and therefore do not need an APA internship. That being said, the practicum and internship sites MSPP is affiliated with are highly regarded in the Boston area and if you enter into MSPP with the knowledge and awareness of wanting an APA internship, you should not have a problem getting one. When I interviewed for internships, I was consistently surprised at how much more clinical experience I had over other applicants - I matched at my first choice internship.

I know many others who chose not to do an APA internship and are very successful clinicians, not only in New England, but all across the country. Don't get caught up in the numbers - grad school is what you make of it and MSPP is in the heart of one of the premier cities in the world for medical training. I had the opportunity to train at several top medical centers and with major players in the field while at MSPP.

PM me with more detailed questions and good luck!

 

[Flutterbyu]

I called the Dean. He returned my call and left a voicemail saying just that. He stated most students dont apply for APA/APPIC internships (they usually take a nonaccred. internship in one of many placement sites in New England) but, of the ones who did, 100% received one. That's a small N though. Still seems awful risky considering I want to work in correctional facilitites. Also, if you were to seek an APA internship it would require an additional year of graduate school. You would have to complete the school requirements of a part-time, 2-year internship in addition to the APA internship. If they charge tuition during internship, thats another $30,000+.

Other thoughts, comments, concerns?

This is not correct. With the additional year (which is customary), you pay one credit per semester - it is around $2k for internship year and you can budget that into your lending from the previous year.