MSTP Applicants This Year?

[brandonite]

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Just curious. 🙂

I will be applying again, only this year, as an MSTP. Last year I just applied MD. I'm a quasi-international, so the schools I'll be applying to are somewhat limited. I have an acceptance to a school in Canada that doesn't really have an MD/PhD program. Anyway, just wondering who all else is out there... 🙂

Here's where I will be applying, ranked in rough order of where I'd like to attend. 🙂 I'd like to stay in the midwest, generally...

1. WashU
2. Cornell/Rockefeller/SKI
3. Duke
4. NWern.
5. Mayo (if they take Canadians...)
6. Yale
7. Stanford
8. Columbia

Harvard and Hopkins don't have funding for Canadians, so I won't apply there. I know it's a short-ish list, but I do have schools in Canada to fall back upon.

Anybody else?

 

[Trek]

I thought you got into an MD/PhD program already????? --Trek

 

[brandonite]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Trek:
•I thought you got into an MD/PhD program already????? --Trek•••••Nope. Got into an MD program. They told me there might be an MD/PhD program in place in a year or two, but I'm not sure I believe them. So, I'm going to wait. I didn't apply to any MSTP programs this year. I only decided that I wanted to be an MD/PhD for sure about six weeks ago. But I figure with my MCAT scores, I shouln't have to worry about getting in somewhere...

 

[jargon124]

so what are ya planning to do this year Brandonite - sit it out? Anyhow, congrats on your decision and good luck with your MSTP app process next year - you're right - with that MCAT score of yours you shouldn't need it though...

 

[brandonite]

This year, I'm going to do a year of grad work. I have a nice scholarship ($27K a year!) for grad school, so I'll use that for a year. I don't think I can get done my Masters, but I might be able to come close. Some people might think I'm a fool for throwing away an acceptance, but I'm hoping that it isn't that much of a gamble. :wink:

No other MSTP applicants out there? Maybe it's a little too early...

 

[VC15]

Congrats on your Manitoba acceptance, and best of luck with your applications in the upcoming cycle. Are you going to consider MD/PhD programs in Canada too?

 

[Neuronix]

Here's my list as it stands now. These are subject to and probably will change as I investigate lab oppertunities more closely closer to application time.

1. WashU
2. Duke
3. Hopkins
4. UPenn
5. Harvard
6. Pitt
7. Baylor
8. Penn State

Might add/drop a few to/from this list (considering Mayo, USC, UMich, UCI). I will also apply standard MD to:

UMaryland (my state school)
Another yet undetermined school.

Further advice is welcome. Even better if you're knowledgeable would be if you'd come on irc.studentdoctor.net and counsel me.

 

[marq_bme]

yeah, i will also be applying MSTP this coming application cycle. My research and my education has been in biomedical engineering, so my list looks as follows:

Duke, JHU, HST at harvard, NU, Vanderbilt, Umich, MCW, Madison, Uchicago, and a few others i cant think of. i dont expect to get into most of these schools, but 1 or 2 acceptances is all i need really.

i have decent stats, but nothing outstanding--3.9, 33Q. hopefully i will be getting my name on a paper soon. i am also working in a very very cool research program for BME's this summer at the NIH.

 

[moo]

Good luck brandonite!

I can't believe you're doing this, though. To throw away an acceptance... but I guess this just says how much more you want MD/PhD. I once thought about it, with my background (math/phys), people encouraged me... but then again, I decided it wasn't for me.

I would definitely look at Harvard again though. I'm pretty sure they offer hefty financial aid to Canadians... they don't care where you're from as long as you're good. Plus, at Harvard, you can do a lot of joint stuff with profs at MIT, which is another definite plus. A couple of my buddies are going to Harvard (well one to Harvard and another to MIT) next year and they both told me how they can even do their research with someone else in the other institution.

 

[zephyr_97]

Oops, bad me. Hit enter too early. Continuing

-U of Michigan
-U of Washington
-U of Minnesota
-U of Pittsburg

Though I have extensive experience in labs (BME from Duke), I was drawn to Public Health and wanted to pursue more than a MPH. But of course, coming from LA, I'll definitely apply to UCs. Good luck to you all...

Z

 

[zephyr_97]

Also

-Hopkins
-Harvard
-Yale
-UNC @ Chapel Hill

😎

 

[RNAgirl]

Hey everyone! I think I learned a lot while applying this year, and I'd be happy to share it with all of you...

Hey zephyr_97! I'm a Duke grad, too.

I saw that several of you are planning to apply to U Mich, which is probably where I'll be going this summer. 🙂 So, keep me in mind if you have questions later on during the application cycle.

marq_bme, If you're planning to stay with bme type stuff, you might consider adding U Pitt to your list. They have a very good joint MSTP with Carnegie Mellon.

 

[Hopkins2010]

I second what RNA_girl said about Pitt and biomedical engineering.

Hopkins also has a really good BME program. I think they beat out MIT this year for the best BME program in the country, at least according to the official rankings (take that for what its worth)

 

[marq_bme]

hey RNA girl thanks a ton for your advice. i actually sent you a private message a long time ago about duke MSTP and you gave me a very helpful response. yeah, im going BME all the way, but i was wondering a couple of things: do any of you guys know anything about.. MSTP and EARLY DECISION?? is it possible? is it common? is it very hard to do? i've heard so many good and bad things about ED, and i was just curious as to any input on the matter. in case you were wondering, i was thinking duke ED, but i realize that my stats are slightly below their norm. i will definitely look into pitt however, seeing the suggestion from RNA girl. wow, joint with carnegie mellon--thats awesome.

 

[Hopkins2010]

marq,

I think applying MSTP and EDP is extremely unusual. I dont have a formal answer on whether you can do it or not, but out of the 60+ MSTP applicants that I met (I had quite a few early fall interviews) that none of them applied EDP.

It probably varies from school to school. I think in general, most programs are rather hesitant to accept an MSTP applicant thru EDP without seeing the entire applicant pool first. But who knows it could be possible.

 

[marq_bme]

wow baylor, you met 60+ mstp applicants?? holy cow thats a lot.

what do you think the average stats are for an MSTP applicant? also, what distinguishes an mstp applicatn from an accepted mstp applicant? getting published? knowing their research well? doing something important? letters of recc? your expertise would be so helpful--thanks!

 

[brandonite]

As to what distinguishes an MSTP applicant... Well, that's tough to say. You have to have a really strong research background. I don't know if being published is required, but it certainly helps. I have three years of research experience, but my PI has always worked with a wide variety of collaborators, so I haven't gotten published, because he can't just add my name to a paper without getting a long list of people to agree.

Anyway, the stats of an MSTP applicant are usually a fair bit above the average, but I don't think it's a requirement.

I think the main thing is that you should have a strong research background, and you should be able to speak articulately about that background at the interview.

As to EDP... I asked that question about a week ago. If I could, I would apply EDP to WashU, and avoid going through this whole stupid process again. But I don't think that it is something that's ever done, unfortunately. You might want to talk to the specific school, as I think it's highly dependent on the specific program...

Hope that helps!

 

[Ponyboy]

I posted this a little while ago but I thought that I would reiterate it, in light of your decision to forgo med school for grad studies:

While not an MD/PhD student myself (decided against it), several of my friends/ classmates are Mud/Phudders.

One thing that you should also consider when thinking about MD/PhD is the possibility of doing your PhD after your MD. This can be done after or during your residency/fellowship. The Royal College has a program called the Clinician Investigator Program which entails doing your PhD during your residency and fellowship. The advantages to doing this are: 1) you already know which specialty you'll be in and can pick your project based on your specialty 2) you will have a larger clinical knowledge base and will be able to decide which problems are worth looking at 3) by doing your PhD at a date closer to when you can become an attending (ie. 1-2 years before you finish your residency) you will be more up-to- date on current research and will not have been out of the lab for 6-8 years.

In terms of U Manitoba not having a very established program, there always has to be someone to break new ground. MD/PhD programs are very new to Canada (except for maybe McGill and Toronto), and there are only a handful of these students around. By not having a program established, there are more open doors for you and less restrictions on your program. In terms of elective time, many schools in Canada have around 10-12 weeks of elective time. What matters most is when you have your elective time (ie. at the beginning of your rotations or closer to the end).

Also, forget about reputation and top schools/programs. What really matters is quality and interests. You want to go to a program that will give you quality training and has interests that are similar to yours. Some of them may be at top 10 programs, some of them may not.

Finally, think very hard about turning down med school for grad studies. If you really want to be a doctor, go to med school. The research can always come later. Also, you may decide that you like clinical medicine and clinical research a lot more than basic science. There are quite a few people that I know who thought that they loved basic science research but found out that they liked clinical research and work much more.

 

[RNAgirl]

In response to Ponyboy's post, it's true that one could pursue a PhD after medical school, but the combined MD-PhD programs are designed for people who have decided early on that they would like a career that combines research and medicine. I think there are a lot of benefits to the integrated training MD-PhD students receive (versus completing the two degrees separately).

The time spent out of lab during the residency is a concern for MD-PhD graduates; however, there are options for residency that are conducive to "keeping a hand" in research.

In terms of early decision, I'm not aware of any schools that have this, but there are several schools that interview in Oct./Nov. and send out acceptance letters soon after, such as Wash U and Cornell/Rockefeller/SKI. So, although you would not find out about acceptances before all of the application deadlines, you could end up saving some money on interview travels.

It's hard to say specifically what distinguishes successful MD-PhD applicants, but I can speak from my experiences. While publications are nice, they aren't necessary (note: abstracts from meetings also count). It is critical that you have done some in-depth research, but it certainly doesn't have to be in the area you want to study for your PhD. As brandonite said, you need to be able to explain your research and its significance very well in your essays and during interviews. The letters from your research mentor(s) are also very important. While MD-PhD applicants usually have substantial research experiences, I think it's also important to have done some volunteering/shadowing in a clinical setting. Finally, in my experience, very high GPAs and MCAT scores are not necessary! What you do need is a sincere dedication to research AND medicine. :wink:

 

[brandonite]

Thanks, ponyboy.

I looked into the Clinical Investigator Program. I still prefer the MD/PhD program because I think that it offers better integration of the MD and PhD portions of the program. And I would prefer to have the MD/PhD dual degree when I apply to residency programs, so that if I decide to apply to top US programs, I would have a shot. I wouldn't with just an MD. Thanks for the help.

I would like to repeat - I have not decided to forego a medical career!!!

I went by Manitoba, and talked to a prof who's head of a department there. I have a very nice scholarship available for graduate work within Canada. He advised me to do a year in the PhD program while I had the scholarship. Basically, in the eyes of Manitoba, I would be doing a year of the PhD program in the first year instead of in the third year.

Now, here comes the interesting part: what I'd like to do is also apply to other MD/PhD programs over the next year... I mean, if I got into a program like WashU next year (which I didn't even apply to this year), with full funding, it would be hard to turn that down in favor of no funding at Manitoba. It's not that anything is seriously the matter with Manitoba, it's just that WashU or Cornell or whatever have so much more to offer.

The complication that I just discovered is that programs don't usually like to take people who haven't finished a degree... Ugh. Why does everything have to be so complicated! I now need to find out if that also holds true for MD/PhD programs in my situation...

 

[zephyr_97]

To tell the truth, I still haven't really decided on MSTP programs, not 100% sure, given that my gpa is not as high as I want it to be. Also, though I have extensive lab experience since freshman year, with possible publications this summer, I really want to get a PhD in Public Health/Epidemiology. Any advice? (Thanks).

Hey RNAgirl,
I actually will be graduating this coming week and will take a year off. I PMed you. Good luck guys...

Z. 😎

 

[Hopkins2010]

hey zephyr,

one of the acceptees to Hopkins MSTP is pursuing a PhD in public health/epidemiology. I think Hopkins has a really good public health school but I dont really know much about it. There are probably a few other schools who will let you get a PhD in public health as part of an MSTP.

good luck.

marq_bme,

I dont know that I can add much more than brandonite and others did about what makes a successful MSTP applicant. These are very rough averages, but I'd say nationwide a typical MCAT score for an MSTP acceptee is around 36 with GPA around 3.8 or so. Now, of course that could vary from program to program but most of the schools I interviewed at said their averages for the MSTP accptees were in that neighborhood.

In my case, I think letters of rec were key. I was extremely fortunate in the fact that all of my letters were "outstanding", at least according to a few interviewers who commented on them. My recommenders also commented to me that they were going to write extremely strong letters for me. I think most MSTP applicants have "good" letters, but from the feedback I've gotten on mine, I think my letters were better than just "good." Looking back at what I just wrote, I must come across as a complete prick and I dont mean to seem cocky. I'm just trying to give you a clearer picture of what I think distinguished ME from maybe some other less successful MSTP applicants.

Motivation is very important also. My reasons for pursuing MSTP were very precise and distinct, and I think that it came across to the admissions people that I had really thought hard about why I was pursuing it. Just saying to them that you want to do "patient care and research" is really not enough of an in-depth motivation they are looking for. You need to elaborate on it I think.

You can PM me if you have more questions and I'll try to remember to check them often. There are many other people on here who have been more successful than I have at the MSTP game (Sonic, Original, and Rumit come to mind immediately) and many of them "hang out" on the MSTP boulevard thread. So you might want to post any other questions you have on there. Trust me, there is a veritable wealth of experience in MSTP admissions on that thread, and the people there have gotten multiple acceptances to some of the best programs in the country.

good luck.

 

[marq_bme]

holy crap, id figure that MSTP acceptees would have high stats--but 36 MCAT..hmm, now im starting to see my naivety. i have a pretty good score of 33, but its clearly below avg for MSTP.

does that mean that the majority of you guys have near a 36 MCAT?

i understand that this is just the average and it varies from program to program, but i think baylor's info was a good "grounder" for my high hopes.

ah well, back to the research--my one hope!

 

[Vader]

marq_bme,
Since no one has mentioned it and I'm not one to be afraid of giving a shameless plug, I'd encourage you to check out the following site, which contains a guidebook for MD/PhD applicants:

<a href="http://go.to/mdphd" target="_blank">http://go.to/mdphd</a>

Happy browsing! 😀