MSTP student thinking of industry

[Mud]

I am an MSTP student currently in the PhD phase, studying in a neurology-focused lab, and I am interested in continuing research in the pharmaceutical industry. I feel more motivated by the concept of making a new treatment than doing basic academic research. My plan is to go into a neurology residency, assist in clinical trials during residency, then do a fellowship and enter pharmaceutical research. I estimate that I would enter the pharma world 8-10 years from now.
I have carefully read pazzer2's wonderful posts, and I have some follow-up questions for pazzer2 or anyone else who knows the industry.

1) I have seen some fellowships that are specifically focused on drug testing. Would it be better to do one of these fellowships, or a fellowship targeted at a specific disease?

2) Although I am interested in neurology, I am also curious about some of the other residency/clinical tracks. Is there any call for pathologists in pharma research? Neurosurgery for device testing?

3) I know some companies are cutting back and/or outsourcing R&D; is that affecting the clinical investigation side and recruitment of new investigators?

4) Besides learning how to run clinical trials, what should I know? Do I need to start reading up on the marketing/financing/management aspects of the business, or will that be taken care of by others, and I should focus just on clinical aspects?

Thank you!

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[obscurehero]

I actually have a question for you, if you feel like answering.

Why do you need to continue your clinical training to work in pharma? You're already a good 3-5 years into your graduate training and you want to add another 8-10 years? I guess from everything I've heard, you could do a post-doc and transition into pharma quite nicely. Why wait so long?

 

[dl2dp2]

To the above, the MDs and the PhDs have very different roles during the drug development process. MDs actually administer medications, manage side effects, and do history and physical during the intake process -- i.e. act like a doctor. This is why often specialty/sub-specialty clinical training is necessary for this kind of a job. Most certainly needs a medical license. PhDs generally do the preclinical design/animal model development aspects as well as the data analyses aspects, but the MDs can do that as well. The salary level for the MD research clinicians is considerably higher (as they have to match the salary level for outside MD clinical jobs) and there is more promotion room for MDs IMHO to management.

While pharma "outsource" clinical trials to CROs, they still need to hire MDs. This route is always gonna be there. However, you have to realize that this route has its own issues, including the lack of professional autonomy, lack of a scientific community and transparency, and possible bottleneck for promotion. You'll be answering to superiors who have ZERO scientific training and it can be very discouraging. And the salary isn't necessarily higher, depending on the clinical specialty.

For the original poster, the answers you are looking for aren't necessarily easily answered by people on this board, who are much more informed about a career pathway in academia. I would recommend you to talk to people in your department who had successfully navigated an industry transition. Aside from going directly into industry via the clinical investigator route during trials, if you are just strictly more interested in the business side of things, there are also other paths that you might want to consider, such as MD/PhD->no residency->equity research/ibank->pharma business development or MD/PhD->management consulting -> lifesciences VC/PE, MD/PhD -> postdoc-> lifesciences startup, etc. For each of these pathways, if you are interested the best way is DIRECTLY contact the principles involved in that specific instance. For instance, if you have a decent set of credentials as an MD/PhD graduate, you can directly pitch yourself to a lifesciences startup as long as you believe your experience and training somehow fit into their broad vision.

Also, realize that NONE of these things are necessarily better in many aspects compared to research +/- clinical care (i.e. the classic 80/20 model). While the NIH is clamping down on funding medication trial per se, a straight drug trial is boring anyway, and they ARE still interested in developing novel trial techniques and personalization, biomarkers, longitudinal studies, combination strategies, etc. etc. Did you know that HALF of NIH's budget is devoted to clinical research? Don't be blindsighted by the fact that everyone you know does bench research and that it's insanely competitive. It's still very much feasible to survive in academia as a clinical investigator and a clinical trialist. In the private world, you do whatever the CEO says. Are you ready for that kind of life where you sit in a cubicle for 5 years waiting for your next promotional review by a committee of salesmen? That was what I gathered after investigating some of the situations in the banking world. I said hells no. I'd rather do 100% private practice than THAT. There is a reason why tippity top people stay in academia, and it's not all just inertia. Be very very careful. Talk to lots of people before labeling yourself as destined this or that.

 

[Fencer]

The MD/PhD contacts in industry, all of them, did clinical residency, even those doing R&D.

 

[debateg]

I have a follow-up question. If you're seriously considering industry, when in your career path do you make the jump? It seems that all the MD/PhDs in industry I know did this:

MD/PhD -> residency -> fellowship -> instructor/postdoc -> assistant professor -> full professor x 5-10 years -> industry -> return to academia (where I met them)

It seems that if you want to do industry, that's not a very direct way to get there at all.

 

[gutonc]

I have a follow-up question. If you're seriously considering industry, when in your career path do you make the jump? It seems that all the MD/PhDs in industry I know did this:

MD/PhD -> residency -> fellowship -> instructor/postdoc -> assistant professor -> full professor x 5-10 years -> industry -> return to academia (where I met them)

It seems that if you want to do industry, that's not a very direct way to get there at all.

There are a fair number of 1-2 year drug dev fellowships out there that are generally done near/at the end of a fellowship (I'm an oncologist so I only really know about that specific approach). It's a pretty good way to get a view of industry while still having the opportunity to go back to academics if you want.

I have a few friends who have done them and have gone all directions afterwards (industry, academics and PP).

 

[gutonc]

I actually have a question for you, if you feel like answering.

Why do you need to continue your clinical training to work in pharma? You're already a good 3-5 years into your graduate training and you want to add another 8-10 years? I guess from everything I've heard, you could do a post-doc and transition into pharma quite nicely. Why wait so long?

For the same reason you should complete a residency even if you're planning a FT research career. You're worth more as an actual physician than as someone who just completed an MD.

 

[debateg]

There are a fair number of 1-2 year drug dev fellowships out there that are generally done near/at the end of a fellowship (I'm an oncologist so I only really know about that specific approach). It's a pretty good way to get a view of industry while still having the opportunity to go back to academics if you want.

I have a few friends who have done them and have gone all directions afterwards (industry, academics and PP).

Thanks, that's useful information. Do you know of any starting point to find such fellowship? I can find fellowship for PhDs applying as a postdoc, but I can't seem to find much for clinical fellows that are receiving clinical training at an academic institution.

 

[gutonc]

Thanks, that's useful information. Do you know of any starting point to find such fellowship? I can find fellowship for PhDs applying as a postdoc, but I can't seem to find much for clinical fellows that are receiving clinical training at an academic institution.

The BMS one has a good page.

Otherwise I'd just contact the people on the post-doc listing and go from there.

I know someone starting a fellowship at Novartis next year (after finishing Hem/Onc fellowship) and most of the people I know who have done this did it at BMS.

 

[obscurehero]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Still so much to learn...

That said, I'd rather keep things on the academia side of things anyway so this of less concern to me.

 

[Mud]

Dear all,

OP here. I'd like to thank you all for your input.

Obscurehero: As several posters mentioned in the thread, I want to do residency since it will allow me to do clinical work and increase the value I am bringing to the table. I do like patient contact, and I am trying to find a way to integrate patient care with scientific pursuit. This approach seems like the ideal use for a dual degree.

Sluox: I will carefully look at this. I like the idea of drug trials, and I had assumed that they were done pretty much entirely through industry. I had also been concerned about being able to get funding, so I was very interested to hear that the NIH devotes so much to clinical trials. I am still interested in industry, but I will be careful to make sure I know the good and the bad before committing to anything.

Thank you Fencer, Sluox and Gutonc for your information and replies.

Mud