Some of the posts in this thread are thought provoking and get at the core criticisms of MSTPs. I'd like to put my pro-MSTP spin on things, and try to answer some questions as best as I can. We all know that MSTP is not right for everyone, but it is good to be thinking about whether it is right for you.
And why is it that family issues are NEVER discussed on the MD/PhD forums?
You're looking at a fairly homogenious population on the pre-MSTP forum. The regulars, with a few exceptions (most notably you pathdr), are a bunch of young (under 25) males. The females that we do have here are also young, and generally do not have families. I think that concerns about family and length of training keep most older and family-oriented applicants away from MD/PhD and is a deterrant for many applicants considering MSTP. This is not to say that it deterrs them all. For example, last week at the Baylor second look two of the applicants had children, including one young woman with a 4 year old, and one young man with a 6 month old. Both of the parents of my Baylor student host are MD/PhDs.
My impression is that the forum reflects a diminished amount of diversity seen in MD/PhD programs, especially when compared to PhD or MD programs alone. MD/PhD programs have an increasingly high percentage of male students and are dominated by younger individuals. Nevertheless, I don't want to make this sound more negative than it really is. There is a good percentage of minorities and families in MSTP now, and anyone with an interest in MSTPs is trying to recruit a diverse population to MSTP training. In fact, one of my bosses is a female MD/PhD. Unique perspectives from people all of all ages and orientations is good for everyone in and impacted by medical science.
The concern I have especially for MD/PhD applicants in their late 20's (both female and male) is that you have a finite amount of time to have a family.
There is nothing that says you cannot have a family while you are in training. Many students in MD or PhD programs have families when entering or have children during their programs. There is no reason you cannot do the same during a MD/PhD. Many students do it, and I am sure if you contact any program of decent size, you will be able to find at least one female contact with children.
One important consideration when you choose the program you will enter is how flexible the program is with your decision to have a family. I don't think any program is going to putting time limits on its students and if you need to work less hours during graduate school or take a year off, this will be perfectly acceptable. Sure there are other considerations with the medical school, but in general things can be worked out if you decide to go this way.
I shadow an MD/PhD from UPenn and she thinks the 2 +3/4 +2 way of doing the MD/PhD is pretty senseless for the reason you stated above. For this reason, I think I'll end up completing my PhD research in a pathology residency.
Opinions on exactly how you get your MD/PhD and if a MD/PhD is even necessary AT ALL vary widely depending on who you talk to. I've talked to many individuals (None of them MD/PhDs) who think that getting both degrees is a waste of time for any field of work. I don't understand why getting your PhD during residency is more flexible than getting your PhD in a MSTP? Residency is still very time consuming, and you will probably still end up putting the same amount of years into your training.
i basically am going on a blind faith that it will all work out in the end, but there are so few female role models out there. can women mdphds really have it all? or is this just a myth? will it be a mistake to believe i can have it all? do any of you worry about this? what if my priorities change? and family is just as important as research?
So my boss is a female MD/PhD but she does not have any children. I asked her though, and she says that everyone she knows who did MD/PhD ended up having children, either during training or after. Going back after Baylor again (sorry, Baylor is just fresh in my mind after second look), one of the prominant researchers there, Huda Zoghbi, is HHMI, very successful, and has several children. She is another one who heavily attempts to bring women into MD/PhD.
we're young. we know what we want now (and even i often don't). but what if want something different in 3 years? i don't want to be in a program that locks me in.
No MSTP locks you in. The NIH will not let them for this exact reason. If you decide research is too long and too forboding for you, you can drop MSTP and owe nothing from the first two years of medical school. Beware the non-MSTPs (and Mayo, but I'm sure they'll fix this) on this issue, as some require you to sign contracts before you begin the program. The attrition rate from MSTPs back to medical school is fairly high (25% I've heard?), and I think that for this reason, medical schools are very very willing to please and accomidate you as best they can. As for residency programs... I'd be surprised if they'd be as motivated to help.
Traditionlly, MSTP funded programs aren't that flexible and almost always require lab only dissertation research whcih I'm not interested in.
In the regard of research type, they tend not to be so flexible. But, this is the nature of the MSTP beast. It is for training in basic science research. I know that clinical research training goals may be better suited by other pathways. Still, even for a career in clinical reseach, I think that a background in basic science is very helpful. This is one more reason the MSTP exists.
As a conclusion, MSTPs are not nearly as inflexible as some believe they are. There are many who are having families and doing well in MD/PhD and the programs are actively recruiting students to proceed in this direction. Sure, it will take hard work and compromise, but any kind of work and family takes compromise. In the end, remember that there are many contacts out there (and if you still need some just let me know) who are doing the MD/PhD career with children and even if things get too bad, you are not locked into any MSTP.
