Multi-part question: what do psych attendings do all day?

[executivewaffle]

So I've read on here about how you can maximize your income by working at a bunch of places and I never understood it until I got into my psych rotation.

So basically, my attendings are there for 3 hours in the morning and then leave. Sometimes they have ECT before that. Sometimes they have to go to court afterwards.

So for those of you incomemaxxing, do you just round at a bunch of hospitals, spend 2-4 hours there each? Or what do you do?

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[executivewaffle]

oh, wait I just realized they're not even usually there for 3 hours. more like 2.5 ish.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Work 9-12. Day trade 12-4.

 

[BiscoDisco]

I get to the hospital pretty early, around 630-7. I quickly pre-round then see patients. I'll put in orders and do treatment team meeting. Then I leave and go home to do some outpatient appointments from my home office. Sometime around 1ish I'll wrap up my outpatient appointments. At this point I'll turn on my other webcam and start doing only fans shows until late into the evening. This is my typical day and it can be yours too if you work hard as well. Hope that was helpful.

 

[phonyreal98]

I get to the hospital pretty early, around 630-7. I quickly pre-round then see patients. I'll put in orders and do treatment team meeting. Then I leave and go home to do some outpatient appointments from my home office. Sometime around 1ish I'll wrap up my outpatient appointments. At this point I'll turn on my other webcam and start doing only fans shows until late into the evening. This is my typical day and it can be yours too if you work hard as well. Hope that was helpful.

Why do you need two separate webcams for telehealth vs. onlyfans? Seems to me that the overhead for just one webcam would be way lower.

 

[ObsequiousAplomb]

Why do you need two separate webcams for telehealth vs. onlyfans? Seems to me that the overhead for just one webcam would be way lower.

1080p, 30 fps for the psychiatry camera - can't have patients reading too much into my appearance

For the only fans? 8k, 120 fps

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

I get to the hospital pretty early, around 630-7. I quickly pre-round then see patients. I'll put in orders and do treatment team meeting. Then I leave and go home to do some outpatient appointments from my home office. Sometime around 1ish I'll wrap up my outpatient appointments. At this point I'll turn on my other webcam and start doing only fans shows until late into the evening. This is my typical day and it can be yours too if you work hard as well. Hope that was helpful.

i always wonder what SDN people look like and imagine each poster looks a certain way, but likely im completely and entirely wrong with what I picture

OP, i work in an outpatient office so its standard 8-4:30 schedule.

 

[clausewitz2]

OP, are you sure your attendings are leaving the building or are they just not physically on the unit? I know where I trained attendings would only be physically around patients for so long but would then retreat to their offices to handle all the administrivia, family meetings, documentation, orders, returning calls, etc. That said I am certainly familiar with the species of attending that wishes to be done with their patients as soon as humanly possible to race to another half day of outpatients that pay better.

 

[Merovinge]

I knew a guy who left around 6am each morning to commute to an IP unit 50 minutes away, saw 15-20 IP patients (only attending on the unit, half the notes written by his NP but he saw all of them). Saw 20-30 patients in afternoon clinic then stopped by nursing homes on the way home and saw however many patients. 13 ish hour day plus 24/7 call 365 days a year. I am sure he cleared 7 figures. For what reason I have absolutely no idea as it was a LCOL area and he already had the most expensive house in the entire region.

 

[comp1]

So I'm a fed and this idea of leaving the unit during the day is very, very foreign. Federal employees have set tours of duty and psychiatrists generally and very fortunately don't mix inpatient/CL with outpatient. There are times my door is closed during that TOD and it usually involves sort of administrative stuff. Ideally everything remotely clinical like family meetings or collateral collection would involve (or even be run by) trainees. There are some psychiatrists who are intermittently remote, but they should still be immediately reachable during business hours by a resident or medical student. Just some feedback for the OP so they realize that the disappearing attending is not a constant in the field.

 

[Sushirolls]

Well, we could start running for office, and switch from only fans to some other web server. Then take requests, and ask for donations to fund our political office run. Once our opponents catch on, immediately blame them - and take no personal responsibility.

Oh, that's right, we are physicians, and we have moral clauses buried into everything we do - license, board certifications, medical societies, etc.

So, I suppose yet again, there is another point for being an ARNP over physician.

/sarcasm

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Not sure how far along in your rotations you are but this isn't unique to psych. It's different at a lot of academic places where attendings tend to hang around for teaching in the afternoon but hospitalists sure aren't hanging around all day after rounding...they go take off until they have to admit someone or handoff to the overnight people. The only reason surgery is in the hospital after rounding on their inpatients is to do more surgery. There are plenty of specialities that round on their inpatients in the AM and go do clinic in the afternoons.

 

[executivewaffle]

i work in an outpatient office so its standard 8-4:30 schedule.

In general, what is more economical (best return/ time): outpatient or inpatient?

 

[comp1]

I know that some hourly salaried places pay their inpatient psychiatrists more than they pay their outpatients hourly because it is less popular, but cash pay inpatients are much rarer than outpatients and cash generally is where the high money/high workload is. If you wanted to get super deluxe, I suppose you could open a residential med spa that would be somewhat like a cash pay inpatient. Basically, I don't think you can answer clearly which one is paid more generally. There's too much variability from job to job. You choose inpatient because you prefer the teamwork, rapid changes of all types and relative severity of illness, not necessarily because it pays more.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Just talked to a psych NP that sees 8 follow-ups/hour outpatient. I’m not made to do that. Normal psych work can be fairly lucrative. Do what you enjoy.

 

[BiscoDisco]

Just talked to a psych NP that sees 8 follow-ups/hour outpatient. I’m not made to do that. Normal psych work can be fairly lucrative. Do what you enjoy.

How do these NPs get so many patients to even have enough to see 8 an hour?

 

[comp1]

You could do 8 an hour in a sort of med management group where the patients are selected for particular similar issues or illnesses. I've seen it done well, although it's a bit better at 4-6. It's extremely common with buprenorphine. You do generally need some sort of scribe, however.

 

[clausewitz2]

Just talked to a psych NP that sees 8 follow-ups/hour outpatient. I’m not made to do that. Normal psych work can be fairly lucrative. Do what you enjoy.

This reminds me of stories I heard from attendings who trained in India about 100 patients lining up at clinic at the start of the day and blitzing through all of them before it was time to go home.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Work 9-12. Day trade 12-4.

Then work again 4-7 to make back the 9-12 income that you lost day trading.

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

Then work again 4-7 to make back the 9-12 income that you lost day trading.

agreed lol. most people lose at day trading. I prefer buy and hold.

 

[clausewitz2]

agreed lol. most people lose at day trading. I prefer buy and hold.

had a fascinating intake once where the question was initially bipolar I v. ADHD with a guy whose fiancee made him get psychiatric help after he managed to lose $30,000 in an afternoon buying options that didn't make any sense and were obviously worthless (like, options to buy a particular stock that expire in the next ten minutes). In retrospect he couldn't understand why he had done this. Family history ended up being quite helpful; when I found out that his mom would have "good moods" that once involved going to the market and coming home with a child she had decided to adopt or bankrupting a firm she had started by losing millions of dollars on bizarre purchases in about a month, it was definitely a point in the favor of bipolar d/o.

This was in a developing country in West Africa with very different attitudes and norms about adoption so it was not in fact a kidnapping but was definitely not normal practice.

 

[finalpsychyear]

agreed lol. most people lose at day trading. I prefer buy and hold.

I learned my lesson in residency. Suffice to say i started and ended residency with the exact same amount of money.
However, while index funds are a safer bet for most of your investments i believe investing in tech and growth heavy things like tesla, nvidia, google, meta, apple will get you higher returns in the next 10 years. No guarantee you will get 25 yearly return like they have done in the 10 years ytd though but i'd like to roll the dice on that.

 

[Merovinge]

I learned my lesson in residency. Suffice to say i started and ended residency with the exact same amount of money.
However, while index funds are a safer bet for most of your investments i believe investing in tech and growth heavy things like tesla, nvidia, google, meta, apple will get you higher returns in the next 10 years. No guarantee you will get 25 yearly return like they have done in the 10 years ytd though but i'd like to roll the dice on that.

It's because every young person I read saying these things that I am all in on VTI and not considering QQQ. Also looking to get into exUS markets due to how bullish everyone is on the US.

 

[finalpsychyear]

It's because every young person I read saying these things that I am all in on VTI and not considering QQQ. Also looking to get into exUS markets due to how bullish everyone is on the US.

You could very well be right. I'm also always learning and luckily get to spend a few hours per day reading about this topic. I do agree for docs that do not have an interest or time to do this your approach is the best.

 

[smalltownpsych]

So I've read on here about how you can maximize your income by working at a bunch of places and I never understood it until I got into my psych rotation.

So basically, my attendings are there for 3 hours in the morning and then leave. Sometimes they have ECT before that. Sometimes they have to go to court afterwards.

So for those of you incomemaxxing, do you just round at a bunch of hospitals, spend 2-4 hours there each? Or what do you do?

How does the doc do their rounds and go to court after they have had a course of ECT? Those are some impressive psychiatrists! 😉

 

[FlowRate]

It's because every young person I read saying these things that I am all in on VTI and not considering QQQ. Also looking to get into exUS markets due to how bullish everyone is on the US.

PE ratios especially on tech are sky high...

I keep telling myself that being international weighted should, long term, pay off, but sometimes I wonder if the US really is a unique business environment as a whole. Also with globalization there's a pretty notable correlation between international and US. No right answers here, it's more about investment philosophy and guesswork than mathematical certainties.

 

[Candidate2017]

oh, wait I just realized they're not even usually there for 3 hours. more like 2.5 ish.

Why are you counting only the 2.5 hours of rounding as work? You mentioned your attendings also do ECT and court before or after rounds. That's at least another 2 hours. But if your attending is out of sight, that doesn't count as work? Either you have a future in administration or you have poor object constancy.

Anyway, the attendings who always seem physically present tend to be the ones who work the least compared to the ones that can never be found. And the ones who grind the most tend to the ones who seem the most chill.

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

I learned my lesson in residency. Suffice to say i started and ended residency with the exact same amount of money.
However, while index funds are a safer bet for most of your investments i believe investing in tech and growth heavy things like tesla, nvidia, google, meta, apple will get you higher returns in the next 10 years. No guarantee you will get 25 yearly return like they have done in the 10 years ytd though but i'd like to roll the dice on that.

You go to vegas, put all your money on 26 red, the wheel spins and you win big. But then you also dont know what will happen while you wait for the wheel to stop spinning. The next guy, spreads his money out on different numbers and has most of the wheel covered, so he knows when the wheel stops spinning he may not get a jackpot, but he still wins regardless. If one loses, another one will still win to make up for it.

probably will get you higher returns in 10 years, but in 20 years a lot can sure change. Heck, even 10 years. How do you know when to get out? When you go to retire one day, will apple still be a big player? Who knows for sure really. Also who really knows if the growth hasnt already hit its peak for these companies..

Very debatable topic. For me at least, i value more certainty and less volatility. This year im already up 15% on my index funds, which i definitely cant whine about.

 

[Merovinge]

PE ratios especially on tech are sky high...

I keep telling myself that being international weighted should, long term, pay off, but sometimes I wonder if the US really is a unique business environment as a whole. Also with globalization there's a pretty notable correlation between international and US. No right answers here, it's more about investment philosophy and guesswork than mathematical certainties.

Oh it is, the US has shown it is willing to let quite a few wild things happen to its citizens to promote shareholder value and that the population largely agrees with this (or at least votes in accordance with this even if they personally disagree). But this is not news to anyone and the P to E or P to B represent that the US is by far the best place in the world to do real business.

I was just saying every time I see someone 100% in on QQQ, 0% international, it just stands to reason the money is to be made elsewhere. I agree there is no right answer and I certainly cannot time the market. 80%VTI/20%VEU (still overweighting US stocks because I plan to retire spending US dollars) it is until I hear a better reason to complicate things further.

 

[finalpsychyear]

You go to vegas, put all your money on 26 red, the wheel spins and you win big. But then you also dont know what will happen while you wait for the wheel to stop spinning. The next guy, spreads his money out on different numbers and has most of the wheel covered, so he knows when the wheel stops spinning he may not get a jackpot, but he still wins regardless. If one loses, another one will still win to make up for it.

probably will get you higher returns in 10 years, but in 20 years a lot can sure change. Heck, even 10 years. How do you know when to get out? When you go to retire one day, will apple still be a big player? Who knows for sure really. Also who really knows if the growth hasnt already hit its peak for these companies..

Very debatable topic. For me at least, i value more certainty and less volatility. This year im already up 15% on my index funds, which i definitely cant whine about.

There is a risk no doubt. I'd love by 2030 to be in a position to go Part time. If my strategy doesn't work then I'll work another 10 years FT after.
I'm very bullish on tesla for example. I have some friends of friend who work in the company and have no doubt they will surpass apple's current market cap by 2030 in the bearish case. Also blackrock, fidelity, and many more are all into digital assets after making a 180 in their comments from a few years. Don't be surprised if those things don't 2-3x in the most bearish case by the end of the decade.

 

[FlowRate]

Oh it is, the US has shown it is willing to let quite a few wild things happen to its citizens to promote shareholder value and that the population largely agrees with this (or at least votes in accordance with this even if they personally disagree). But this is not news to anyone and the P to E or P to B represent that the US is by far the best place in the world to do real business.

I was just saying every time I see someone 100% in on QQQ, 0% international, it just stands to reason the money is to be made elsewhere. I agree there is no right answer and I certainly cannot time the market. 80%VTI/20%VEU (still overweighting US stocks because I plan to retire spending US dollars) it is until I hear a better reason to complicate things further.

I'm 60/40 US/Intl right now because that's what Vanguard/Bogle recommend--basically just investing in market-weighted humanity. But I've been debating shifting to a little heavier US. Hard not to let ~20 years of outperformance start to sway my plan...

 

[Liquid8]

Will see outpatients from 8.30-5.30pm, with half an hour off for lunch or catching up on phone calls.

If I also have private inpatients will round in the evening and finish at 6.30-7pm.

After getting home, will have dinner and usually finish notes and letters in the evening – have developed an unfortunate pattern of starting this quite late, ideally will finish before midnight, but sometimes I’ll start really late and it might be 1-2am. Definitely not the healthiest pattern.

This reminds me of stories I heard from attendings who trained in India about 100 patients lining up at clinic at the start of the day and blitzing through all of them before it was time to go home.

Have a couple of Indian colleagues who operate in a similar manner with their inpatients. They will take an interview room and have the nursing staff organize to have their patients line up outside before they get there - and might see 10-15 patients in an hour. Patients obviously talk to one another, and there is certainly a sense that they aren't keen on this approach.

 

[b52bomber]

Roll in at 830. Usually finish rounding and notes around 1130-12, an hour or less to finish up any calls/paperwork, gone by 1.

Usually run errands, play videogames, take naps. Recently I picked up doing extra inpatient work 2 days of the work for extra money.

It's a good life.

 

[nexus73]

Finishing at 1pm should never be discussed with anyone outside of trusted colleagues. If you tell other specialties you leave at 1pm consistently, even though some of them make much higher salaries than you, I guarantee they will resent/envy it and only badness can come of it. If you tell IM hospitalists you are leaving at 1pm while they are stuck until 4-5-6-7 pm, that is even worse because they probably make the same as you or maybe even a little less. And if you ever have a hospital administrator looking into early departures, you need to obfuscate and emphasize how there are busier days and lighter days, and sometimes you are done at 1pm, and sometimes you are there until 6pm, and that's just the nature of inpatient work.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Roll in at 830. Usually finish rounding and notes around 1130-12, an hour or less to finish up any calls/paperwork, gone by 1.

Usually run errands, play videogames, take naps. Recently I picked up doing extra inpatient work 2 days of the work for extra money.

It's a good life.

How often do you (and others who do inpatient) get bugged by floor staff in the afternoon? Because in my current job it seems like a lot, compared to previous gigs, and it kind of makes it hard to enjoy getting done early. Most afternoons I get at least one, sometimes several, messages/phone calls from nurses, usually about something non-emergent, or non-psychiatric. Like "this patient has a sore throat and would like lozenges" or "this patient says their allergies are acting up and that they take claritin at home and would like to take it here" or "this patient is complaining of nausea, can I get an order for Zofran?" or "this patient's BP is [hypertensive but non-hypertensive urgency level, like 150/90]" or "so-and-so's mother called and would like a call from the doctor" or "so-and-so is having chest pain and shortness of breath" then we check EKG/troponins and it's not an MI.

It's hard to motivate myself to get my notes done and get out of there, when I know that later, when I'm sitting at home in loungewear, with my feet up, I'm going to suddenly get jolted back into thinking about work. I've been sitting here trying to watch a baseball game, and nurses have called me 3 times. Usually even if I could get done very early, I wind up procrastinating on notes and being there until late afternoon, because I know this is going to happen.

Memory fades, but a few years ago I did locums in several different inpatient units, and I don't recall it being like this. Seems like once I finished seeing patients, I was putting in orders and writing notes and that was it, and whenever I got done, I was truly done. Don't remember getting done early but then having to pause my video game at 4pm to deal with minor somatic complaints. Do we just have a crappy nursing culture here?

 

[nexus73]

How often do you (and others who do inpatient) get bugged by floor staff in the afternoon? Because in my current job it seems like a lot, compared to previous gigs, and it kind of makes it hard to enjoy getting done early. Most afternoons I get at least one, sometimes several, messages/phone calls from nurses, usually about something non-emergent, or non-psychiatric. Like "this patient has a sore throat and would like lozenges" or "this patient says their allergies are acting up and that they take claritin at home and would like to take it here" or "this patient is complaining of nausea, can I get an order for Zofran?" or "this patient's BP is [hypertensive but non-hypertensive urgency level, like 150/90]" or "so-and-so's mother called and would like a call from the doctor" or "so-and-so is having chest pain and shortness of breath" then we check EKG/troponins and it's not an MI.

It's hard to motivate myself to get my notes done and get out of there, when I know that later, when I'm sitting at home in loungewear, with my feet up, I'm going to suddenly get jolted back into thinking about work. I've been sitting here trying to watch a baseball game, and nurses have called me 3 times. Usually even if I could get done very early, I wind up procrastinating on notes and being there until late afternoon, because I know this is going to happen.

Memory fades, but a few years ago I did locums in several different inpatient units, and I don't recall it being like this. Seems like once I finished seeing patients, I was putting in orders and writing notes and that was it, and whenever I got done, I was truly done. Don't remember getting done early but then having to pause my video game at 4pm to deal with minor somatic complaints. Do we just have a crappy nursing culture here?

give verbal orders for lozenges, takes two seconds

 

[psychmd03]

Work day. Up at 515 chart review prep notes for hospital 2 and have my coffee and espresso. Leave at 550 and get to hospital 1 at 615/20. Do charts, orders etc then Grab my scribe and round. Out by 915 or so. Head to the gym for 2 hours or so then home and walk to hospital 2. Round with students most days which adds an hour of me talking. Normally I get there around 1/115 out by 330 or so. Walk back home notes until 430 signing the scribe notes and whatnot. I might have a 12 texts through the day or more about patients from my SWs and nurses. Tuesday Thursday is staffing for 30-45min by phone mid day. Take a nice long walk in the early evening. Pretty decent schedule. Students slow me up a bit but I enjoy the talking and the thought provoking questions keeping me honest when I need to do a bit more reading.

 

[allantois]

How do these NPs get so many patients to even have enough to see 8 an hour?

medicaid

 

[shoenberg3]

Work day. Up at 515 chart review prep notes for hospital 2 and have my coffee and espresso. Leave at 550 and get to hospital 1 at 615/20. Do charts, orders etc then Grab my scribe and round. Out by 915 or so. Head to the gym for 2 hours or so then home and walk to hospital 2. Round with students most days which adds an hour of me talking. Normally I get there around 1/115 out by 330 or so. Walk back home notes until 430 signing the scribe notes and whatnot. I might have a 12 texts through the day or more about patients from my SWs and nurses. Tuesday Thursday is staffing for 30-45min by phone mid day. Take a nice long walk in the early evening. Pretty decent schedule. Students slow me up a bit but I enjoy the talking and the thought provoking questions keeping me honest when I need to do a bit more reading.

Compelled to ask, roughly how much do you make with two jobs?

 

[psychmd03]

Compelled to ask, roughly how much do you make with two jobs?

A lot is dependent on how many I see which I don’t have control over. I also generally work 5 days a week at both and 7 days a week with 2 days off a month at the close hospital. That being said at least 3 standard deviations above average. I paid my loans off in a year and have been very aggressively investing in index funds and a few rentals and one syndication to diversify. Im looking to hit (medium) fat fire in the next 2-3 years I should have a net worth of 4-6 million by then. We will see how that goes. I pick up a lot of coverage. I have ended up being to go to for helping other docs and practitioners at both hospitals and admin staff which helps.

 

[pyrrion89]

How do these NPs get so many patients to even have enough to see 8 an hour?

It's called Adderall, Adderall, Adderall, Adderall, Adderall, Adderall, Adderall, and Adderall.

 

[psych_0]

Family meetings, orders, returning calls, etc.

I will do no such things as an attending. These are resident tasks now.

To answer OP's question: I get in at around 6:45-7am, pre-round on everyone. Go see everyone by myself. Then table round with the resident. Then do some teaching + maybe go re-see someone tougher if it's warranted. Then I go home, eat lunch, and start the rest of my day in my private clinic. If the resident needs me, they page me. If nursing needs me, they call the resident. If admin needs me, I delay as long as I can then respond to their email when I get in the following morning.

The day ends around 4:30-5pm when I get my kids from daycare, then the real "hard" part of my job begins. Managing toddlers is significantly harder than managing psychiatric illness in 99% of cases.

 

[finalpsychyear]

A lot is dependent on how many I see which I don’t have control over. I also generally work 5 days a week at both and 7 days a week with 2 days off a month at the close hospital. That being said at least 3 standard deviations above average. I paid my loans off in a year and have been very aggressively investing in index funds and a few rentals and one syndication to diversify. Im looking to hit (medium) fat fire in the next 2-3 years I should have a net worth of 4-6 million by then. We will see how that goes. I pick up a lot of coverage. I have ended up being to go to for helping other docs and practitioners at both hospitals and admin staff which helps.

so medium fat fire is 160k-240k yearly withdrawal based on 4% withdrawal at your numbers of 4-6m.... what do you consider large fat fire 10m?

 

[clausewitz2]

I will do no such things as an attending. These are resident tasks now.

To answer OP's question: I get in at around 6:45-7am, pre-round on everyone. Go see everyone by myself. Then table round with the resident. Then do some teaching + maybe go re-see someone tougher if it's warranted. Then I go home, eat lunch, and start the rest of my day in my private clinic. If the resident needs me, they page me. If nursing needs me, they call the resident. If admin needs me, I delay as long as I can then respond to their email when I get in the following morning.

And if an outpatient doc calls?

The day ends around 4:30-5pm when I get my kids from daycare, then the real "hard" part of my job begins. Managing toddlers is significantly harder than managing psychiatric illness in 99% of cases.

After all, can't B52 your preschooler.

 

[psych_0]

A lot is dependent on how many I see which I don’t have control over. I also generally work 5 days a week at both and 7 days a week with 2 days off a month at the close hospital. That being said at least 3 standard deviations above average. I paid my loans off in a year and have been very aggressively investing in index funds and a few rentals and one syndication to diversify. Im looking to hit (medium) fat fire in the next 2-3 years I should have a net worth of 4-6 million by then. We will see how that goes. I pick up a lot of coverage. I have ended up being to go to for helping other docs and practitioners at both hospitals and admin staff which helps.

This is what I would do if I didn't have kids.

 

[psych_0]

And if an outpatient doc calls?


After all, can't B52 your preschooler.

I have been called by an outpatient doc maybe 1-2x ever in my career so far. If they do reach out, I'll call them back. The only other times I've spoken with outpatient docs is if one of my outpatient colleagues has someone admitted to our inpatient unit. We'll usually just chat via Skype in the morning or a quick <2 min call.

The only B52 available at this time is chocolate milk and Cheerios. Soothes any tantrum.

 

[Auvelity]

Roll in at 830. Usually finish rounding and notes around 1130-12, an hour or less to finish up any calls/paperwork, gone by 1.

Usually run errands, play videogames, take naps. Recently I picked up doing extra inpatient work 2 days of the work for extra money.

It's a good life.

Where do you guys find these jobs As I am finishing up residency all I hear is 7on-7off, or we want you here from 8-5pm regardless if you finished your duties, or outpatient which is usually a fixed schedule with some allotting only for 15 mins follow up which is a hard pass.
Are you guys talking about academics?

 

[psychmd03]

so medium fat fire is 160k-240k yearly withdrawal based on 4% withdrawal at your numbers of 4-6m.... what do you consider large fat fire 10m?

Yeah probably something like that. Someone that will be traveling a lot and will be living in a VHCOL area. I have a friend that makes more than me and spends about 300-400k a year. Truly wild to me but he does have two kids which I don’t and won’t have and he has more expensive taste than I do but it’s still wild spending. So he will need 10min for his spending. He did say he probably will get a 50 million plus exit from the staffing company he’s built so he should be good.

 

[psychmd03]

This is what I would do if I didn't have kids.

Yep no kids just me and my SO. She is also at a time where she also wants to hustle with her career so we both are bought into work now so we can coast in our 40s and truly enjoy some fun stuff when we still have energy and health.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Yep no kids just me and my SO. She is also at a time where she also wants to hustle with her career so we both are bought into work now so we can coast in our 40s and truly enjoy some fun stuff when we still have energy and health.

I used to think like this but then i realized time is priceless. I hope you get a week vaca every few months. Sure it may make a mild difference in ur bottom line but def enjoy the process of getting to all ur financial goals. You never know when ur number gets called or those around you aren't around or you or so health is taken for granted. Live in the moment to a large degree. Won't matter if you reach 6,7,8, 10, 12m really you likely wont ever spend through any of it if you were disciplined enough to get there so quickly.