Multiple Letters of Intent

[EnjoyCoke]

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While being prepared to honor all of them? I.e. if you get off any one of them, withdraw from all other schools and matriculate there.

I thought about this for a bit, and it does seem weird to write one to a school that isn't your absolute top choice, but...

1. The chances of getting off multiple waitlists isn't that great to begin with. Odds are it doesn't matter.
2. The scenario where you get into a school that you really like and then proceed to get off another one that you like even more is really unlikely (not to mention obnoxiously good already). For risk-averse people, why not play it a bit safe and improve your chances at either?
3. You may really like the two schools equally, or rather, enough that it doesn't matter.
4. Knowing for sure where you're going early is nice in and of itself. Somewhat related to point 3 - going with the one that accepts you first gives you more time to "prepare": be it look for housing, get familiar with the area, and get excited about the school.

It seems to me schools only care about LOIs because it increases their yield - in which case nothing about this seems unethical to me because it looks exactly the same on their end.

 

[DocMcCoy]

From what I gather: Multiple letters of interest = OK, multiple letters of intent = NO GO. There is probably a fine line between the two, but it is acceptable to express serious interest in letters to multiple schools without binding yourself (ethically or otherwise).

 

[metallica81788]

While being prepared to honor all of them? I.e. if you get off any one of them, withdraw from all other schools and matriculate there.

I thought about this for a bit, and it does seem weird to write one to a school that isn't your absolute top choice, but...

1. The chances of getting off multiple waitlists isn't that great to begin with. Odds are it doesn't matter.
2. The scenario where you get into a school that you really like and then proceed to get off another one that you like even more is really unlikely (not to mention obnoxiously good already). For risk-averse people, why not play it a bit safe and improve your chances at either?
3. You may really like the two schools equally, or rather, enough that it doesn't matter.
4. Knowing for sure where you're going early is nice in and of itself. Somewhat related to point 3 - going with the one that accepts you first gives you more time to "prepare": be it look for housing, get familiar with the area, and get excited about the school.

It seems to me schools only care about LOIs because it increases their yield - in which case nothing about this seems unethical to me because it looks exactly the same on their end.

Since they don't matter all that much to begin with, go for it. I don't see anything wrong with it, and you're right about the odds of getting into both. I would only do 2, though, but that's just me.

You'll get a bunch of ethics-heavy responses on here going "zomg, you're such a bad person" but don't listen to them. Don't hate the player, hate the game - you have to play to win.

 

[MrCheetah]

While being prepared to honor all of them? I.e. if you get off any one of them, withdraw from all other schools and matriculate there.

I thought about this for a bit, and it does seem weird to write one to a school that isn't your absolute top choice, but...

1. The chances of getting off multiple waitlists isn't that great to begin with. Odds are it doesn't matter.
2. The scenario where you get into a school that you really like and then proceed to get off another one that you like even more is really unlikely (not to mention obnoxiously good already). For risk-averse people, why not play it a bit safe and improve your chances at either?
3. You may really like the two schools equally, or rather, enough that it doesn't matter.
4. Knowing for sure where you're going early is nice in and of itself. Somewhat related to point 3 - going with the one that accepts you first gives you more time to "prepare": be it look for housing, get familiar with the area, and get excited about the school.

It seems to me schools only care about LOIs because it increases their yield - in which case nothing about this seems unethical to me because it looks exactly the same on their end.

I've thought about this before, too. I think its okay, so long as you're prepared to honour all of them, (IE, immediately withdrawal at all other schools upon one acceptance)

 

[URHere]

Don't you think it would look a bit odd to write a glowing letter of intent to a school and then potentially withdraw your application a few days later?

I'm not saying that it would black-list you in medicine for life. I'm just saying that it's odd. Letters of intent should exist for your true first choice school (the one from which you would never withdraw an application), and your first choice school only.

 

[EnjoyCoke]

Don't you think it would look a bit odd to write a glowing letter of intent to a school and then potentially withdraw your application a few days later?

I'm not saying that it would black-list you in medicine for life. I'm just saying that it's odd. Letters of intent should exist for your true first choice school (the one from which you would never withdraw an application), and your first choice school only.

It does look odd. On the other hand, it seems just as weird to me to write a glowing letter of interest that just happens to be carefully worded such that you don't *have* to attend if accepted, and then withdraw.

Also, another question about letters of intent - don't they more or less mean you don't care about finances? What if you get a scholarship somewhere else (yes I do know it's not common for people coming off the WL) - isn't that often enough to convince someone to give up one's "true" top choice and go there?

 

[slowbutsteady]

I am a real hard ass about letters of intent because I think it is unethical to use them falsely.

This approach is kind of interesting though. If a school hasn't acted on your app or your letter of intent, do you have to wait around forever? I don't think so.

If you withdraw immediately from the other 4, as you promised you would, I think it is OK. But be careful. If you get into one, it will be tempting to wait a bit on the others. Then you get into unethical territory.

 

[flip26]

Since they don't matter all that much to begin with, go for it. I don't see anything wrong with it, and you're right about the odds of getting into both. I would only do 2, though, but that's just me.

You'll get a bunch of ethics-heavy responses on here going "zomg, you're such a bad person" but don't listen to them. Don't hate the player, hate the game - you have to play to win.

I basically agree with this. I say "go for it" and let others worry about how they would handle the situation.

 

[Davydude7]

I basically agree with this. I say "go for it" and let others worry about how they would handle the situation.

Give it a shot. Write them all a letter if intent. And follow through immediately if you do get in. If you live near any of the schools, try to visit them too, maybe talk to the dean about your app. Not to be a downer, but there is a chance that you wont get in to any of these schools, so start working on improving your app for next cycle too, just in case.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I'd only avoid doing this if the schools are in the same region. Chances that your name would get out are small, but it's probably best to not risk making your integrity suspect.

 

[d1ony5u5]

I've been wrestling with the same question... In short, it comes down to what you are comfortable with doing, and what makes you uncomfortable.

Letters of intent are not binding in any way. They are only an attempt you make at influencing the AdComs. I've come to the conclusion they are mainly just to make yourself feel better. AdComs are not that gullible... Also, I think it is a good assumption on their part that others that have waited patiently in the list are likely to go there if accepted. In short, LoI=very little weight.

However, in the best of scenarios let's say that you get in at a few of your schools from waitlist, and pick just one out of them. To the rest you also sent Letters of Intent. I think this would be a bit unethical, but largely depending on your wording of the letters. Also, yes, the AdComs at those schools probably will question your integrity, etc, for like .5secs, and move on to the next person in the list. If you do this, the only way I envision it actually hurting you, is if you had the misfortune of not attending anywhere for some freakish reason. The AdComs would probably not look kindly on your 2nd application. This is a weird situation though, and highly unlikely...

Do what you are comfortable with doing!

 

[He2]

threads like this make me sad. So much groupthink to make each other feel better about doing very questionable dishonest things. Here's how it is:

the OP desperately is trying to get into a prestigious school at all costs. So are everyone else. Therefore, we all justify it and tell each other that...ya...no one will catch you. don't worry.

Therefore, all of our letters and words mean nothing because people can't keep their word.

 

[d1ony5u5]

He2, you are a very naive person... This, like many other situations in the real world is full of variables that put it in a gray area. Unless you've read the letters and know the language the OP would be using, you can't categorize his actions as outright "dishonest." Questionable would be a more accurate word.

Take solace, however, in knowing that whatever he/she chooses to do has little to do with you. AdComs aren't stupid enough to go granting acceptances only because someone submitted a letter of intent. You are way too concerned with what others choose to do. It's their life and whatever consequences come, do not affect you.

 

[He2]

me naive? no. I'm calling you out on being so desperate in trying to help out in your application that you need to make yourself feel better by saying that its not "dishonest"....just "questionable"...

As Jon Stewart put it: I'm not calling your mother a *****. I'm saying she sleeps people with money. Have you ever been out in the real world? Do you know why this is why people are so mistrusting? someone brings up something very "questionable", then everyone sits there in groupthink and patting each other on the back justifying very questionable things so that he/she feels better about doing it. Everyone then feels better about doing these very questionable things.

Sorry, not playing along. If you do it, thats fine, i have no control. I dont care. But its still straight up dishonest. Changing the terminology to make yourself feel better does not change that fact. If you're going to do it, just sit there and realize you're lying. If thats ok with you, then do it. And trust me, theres plenty of ppl in the world that are ok with it.

 

[rockaction]

medical schools are not going to be hard-pressed enough for 1 student that they'd be pissed that they took you off the WL because of a letter of intent and you turned them down. they'd just go to the next student on the list. it's not like there will be a vacant seat anywhere because of you or any hurt feelings.

 

[lovemesomeTJ]

If you're willing to do this, I wonder what you'll be willing to do if (once?) you're a doctor.

Good luck to you, all the same.

 

[d1ony5u5]

He2, if just the world was as black and white as you put it, things surely would be more simple.

It really seems to me that you are one step further in the desperation scale by screaming foul at very dubious circumstances in which you have very limited information to base your accusations on. So OP is desperate enough to send multiple letters of intent. You show more desperation in throwing around accusations and passing judgment on things you can't control and quite likely will not affect you.

 

[metallica81788]

You'll get a bunch of ethics-heavy responses on here going "zomg, you're such a bad person" but don't listen to them.

That is why I said this

threads like this make me sad. So much groupthink to make each other feel better about doing very questionable dishonest things. Here's how it is:

the OP desperately is trying to get into a prestigious school at all costs. So are everyone else. Therefore, we all justify it and tell each other that...ya...no one will catch you. don't worry.

Therefore, all of our letters and words mean nothing because people can't keep their word.

If you're willing to do this, I wonder what you'll be willing to do if (once?) you're a doctor.

Good luck to you, all the same.

I love how we're all jumping to conclusions about how writing some most likely meaningless letter will make someone a bad person or doctor.

He's not going to excusively perform partial birth abortions just because he wrote 2 letters of intent that probably won't even result in anything. 🙄

 

[rockaction]

the underlying assumption here is that letters of intent make a difference. maybe they don't and this is a pointless discussion. at top schools, I'm sure letters of intent don't mean jack, because it's very easy for them to find a student that would love to go and already assume we're all into the school since we applied there.

 

[He2]

ok, nonono, don't even start with that black/white naive card. Frankly, I fail to see how this is a grey zone situation. Lets realize something. The very definition of a letter of intent is that it seeks to clarify the grey from the black and white. It simply says: if i am given an acceptance, i will go. Seems pretty clear to me that is black/white. A grey letter would be: I love your school, and i would love for an opportunity to attend.

Hence why there is a difference between a letter of INTEREST and letter of INTENT. letters of intent, by their very definition, are black and white. Its not foul, I'm just saying it like it is rather than people on this forum trying to sugar coat it.

I'm sorry you can't handle that

 

[bobsmith]

medical schools are not going to be hard-pressed enough for 1 student that they'd be pissed that they took you off the WL because of a letter of intent and you turned them down. they'd just go to the next student on the list. it's not like there will be a vacant seat anywhere because of you or any hurt feelings.

Yeah, and I imagine this has happened in the past, which is why I would doubt that schools put too much emphasis on letters of intent. Ideally if all applicants honored their letters of intent, they might be taken seriously, but since people don't always honor them, it dilutes their effect.

 

[rockaction]

this is pointless semantics.

 

[He2]

i'm also confused as to how the logical conclusion to "they don't care or read them anyways" is "therefore, i should lie"

seems to me the logical conclusion, if you really believed that, would be to say "f it, i have better things to do so therefore i won't write one..?"

you see how theres something funky going on with this thinking?

 

[He2]

ya, ur right. it absolutely is semantics. Its dishonest...not "morally ambiguous so therefore ok since we say it is"

if you want to do the dishonest thing, then do the dishonest thing. no one is stopping you. but that doesnt make it dishonest. its just annoying cuz this kind of crap happens x100000 on these forums

 

[lovemesomeTJ]

I love how we're all jumping to conclusions about how writing some most likely meaningless letter will make someone a bad person or doctor.

He's not going to excusively perform partial birth abortions just because he wrote 2 letters of intent that probably won't even result in anything. 🙄

I'm not jumping to conclusions, and I'm not saying that writing these letters will make him a bad doctor. Some doctors will just turn out to be bad; it's a fact. He may be the best doctor the next generation sees. And he might not. I guess the good thing is OP's on here asking for other peoples' opinions...but then doesn't that mean that even he sees something potentially wrong with this situation, that he needs to come here looking for support/approval (what are you looking for, OP)?

Imagine, though, if he wrote LOIs to 4 different schools and they all accepted him, and then he had to dump 3 schools and then those schools came back and said, "WTF, mate!?! Thought you said you wanted us." Of course it won't happen, med schools are much too important and too busy to waste time on one measly student. But in essence they did, because they took his plea to heart, and they gave him a chance, and he shat on it.

I speak in hypotheticals, of course. Need the cold hard facts. So try it, OP. Let us know how it goes. 🙂

 

[He2]

I guess the good thing is OP's on here asking for other peoples' opinions...but then doesn't that mean that even he sees something potentially wrong with this situation, that he needs to come here looking for support/approval (what are you looking for, OP)?

i like this. OP coming in here asking about whether something or not is dishonest. I'm gonna shoot straight with you. its dishonest, straight up. No amount of groupthink/self assurance is going to make it not dishonesty. sorry.

I'm just not going to be part of that little game where we sit here and validate each other to make ourselves feel better.

 

[bobsmith]

In my opinion, this is sort of a tragedy of the commons type thing we've got here:

"A situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently, and solely and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen."

 

[FluffyRabbit]

However, in the best of scenarios let's say that you get in at a few of your schools from waitlist, and pick just one out of them. To the rest you also sent Letters of Intent. I think this would be a bit unethical, but largely depending on your wording of the letters. Also, yes, the AdComs at those schools probably will question your integrity, etc, for like .5secs, and move on to the next person in the list. If you do this, the only way I envision it actually hurting you, is if you had the misfortune of not attending anywhere for some freakish reason. The AdComs would probably not look kindly on your 2nd application. This is a weird situation though, and highly unlikely...

Wait... how do you get accepted off the waitlist and then not attend anywhere?

threads like this make me sad. So much groupthink to make each other feel better about doing very questionable dishonest things. Here's how it is:

the OP desperately is trying to get into a prestigious school at all costs. So are everyone else. Therefore, we all justify it and tell each other that...ya...no one will catch you. don't worry.

Therefore, all of our letters and words mean nothing because people can't keep their word.

Assuming the OP really does withdraw everywhere else, maybe he/she will really keep their word. Then again, it takes such an ton of self discipline that I would be quite amazed if it actually happened..

If you're willing to do this, I wonder what you'll be willing to do if (once?) you're a doctor.

Point is, you just played the "you'll make a terrible doctor" card. 🙂

 

[metallica81788]

I'm not jumping to conclusions, and I'm not saying that writing these letters will make him a bad doctor. Some doctors will just turn out to be bad; it's a fact. He may be the best doctor the next generation sees. And he might not. I guess the good thing is OP's on here asking for other peoples' opinions...but then doesn't that mean that even he sees something potentially wrong with this situation, that he needs to come here looking for support/approval (what are you looking for, OP)?

Imagine, though, if he wrote LOIs to 4 different schools and they all accepted him, and then he had to dump 3 schools and then those schools came back and said, "WTF, mate!?! Thought you said you wanted us." Of course it won't happen, med schools are much too important and too busy to waste time on one measly student. But in essence they did, because they took his plea to heart, and they gave him a chance, and he shat on it.

I speak in hypotheticals, of course. Need the cold hard facts. So try it, OP. Let us know how it goes. 🙂

 

[metallica81788]

He2, you're totally wanking the term 'groupthink' - are you a Sociology major?

 

[He2]

Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas
"no one cares about intent letters! so go ahead and send them!" (shouldn't you just not send any at all if no one cares?)

Individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking are lost in the pursuit of group cohesiveness, as are the advantages of reasonable balance in choice and thought that might normally be obtained by making decisions as a group.[1] During groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance. The term is frequently used pejoratively, with hindsight


yep thats about right

btw lets not play the "you're going to be a bad doctor card". I don't believe in that. But you are being a dishonest human being.

but then again, we all do that. we all lie to ourselves. I'm just saying that this is one of those instances. You should just be aware of that

 

[d1ony5u5]

I'm cool with it. you are the one with the panties in a bunch over it.

If you read a bit more carefully, it is evident that even though the OP is calling some document a letter of intent, he implies there would be differences in wording. After reading the posts, it seems to me what he'd be writing is a hybrid between letter of intent/letter of interest. Hence the emphasis I put on how important the language actually used is for passing judgment. Things are not always absolute, and you are imposing your definitions on to someone else's. That coupled with self-righteousness...

I would hope you realize all you are doing is just taking one arbitrary position, opposed to another. Not very hopeful though...

At any rate. You think it's bad, I think depending on the specifics it could range from ok to bad (questionable). Hope this has been helpful to the OP.

 

[Morsetlis]

The only real question is: Will the school that you wrote a Letter of Intent to, that accepted you off the waitlist, call all the other schools to kick your ass out if you withdraw from that school?

 

[flip26]

The only real question is: Will the school that you wrote a Letter of Intent to, that accepted you off the waitlist, call all the other schools to kick your ass out if you withdraw from that school?

Really, is this the "real" question? If so, lemme help you out here...the answer is "no."

 

[Morsetlis]

I already know what the OP is going to do... there's no point in trying to change his mind ;p