My 70 LizzyM friend has no interviews yet...what happened?

[andybshaker]

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Hi all, a good friend of mine has a 3.8 GPA and got a 508 on the MCAT. She hasn't received a single interview and is understandably having a pretty tough time. I am completely at a loss for how this could have happened. She's been in the same lab since freshman year, has tons of clinical and leadership experience, the whole deal. I know the MCAT is a tad on the low side, but I wouldn't expect that to preclude her from any interviews, especially given that she applied to 5 DO schools, all of our public IS schools, and none from the top tier. The only thing I can maybe think of is a bad PS (I didn't read it so I can't comment on it) or maybe a poison LOR. Does anyone have any insight?

 

[LizzyM]

I'd suspect a bad PS (90%) or bad LOR (5%) or very late secondaries (after 10/15 or more than 8 weeks after received).

 

[GrapesofRath]

I would also think a flaw in the written parts of their application is a primary place to look at if 3.8/30 isnt enough to get even a single DO II.

It's also worth looking over their school list; if there were say only 4-5 realistic schools out of that list it can start to make more sense why things went wrong.

 

[whatsupdr]

What DO schools did she apply to?

 

[AsianPersuasion]

When you folks talk about flaws in the written application and P.S, how bad are we talking? Poor articulation, doesn't seem empathetic, doesn't stand stand out, grammatical errors?

I'm curious because I am having a ridiculously hard time trying to articulate my thoughts on to paper.

 

[andybshaker]

What DO schools did she apply to?

I know CCOM and DMU-COM, but I forget the other 3

 

[andybshaker]

I'd suspect a bad PS (90%) or bad LOR (5%) or very late secondaries (after 10/15 or more than 8 weeks after received).

That's what I figured. Wasn't late at all though. Latest was in August I believe.

 

[LizzyM]

When you folks talk about flaws in the written application and P.S, how bad are we talking? Poor articulation, doesn't seem empathetic, doesn't stand stand out, grammatical errors?

I'm curious because I am having a ridiculously hard time trying to articulate my thoughts on to paper.

A poorly written essay with grammatical and spelling errors is won't help an applicant. An essay that reflects an immature decision to pursue a career in medicine is going to be a negative. An essay that indicates that the writer has an unrealistic view of the practice of medicine in the twenty-first century is going to hurt.

 

[Teioh]

Hi all, a good friend of mine has a 3.8 GPA and got a 508 on the MCAT. She hasn't received a single interview and is understandably having a pretty tough time. I am completely at a loss for how this could have happened. She's been in the same lab since freshman year, has tons of clinical and leadership experience, the whole deal. I know the MCAT is a tad on the low side, but I wouldn't expect that to preclude her from any interviews, especially given that she applied to 5 DO schools, all of our public IS schools, and none from the top tier. The only thing I can maybe think of is an abysmally bad PS (I didn't read it so I can't comment on it) or maybe a poison LOR. Does anyone have any insight?

DO schools droll over that GPA. A DO II should be on its way very soon.

 

[andybshaker]

DO schools droll over that GPA. A DO II should be on its way very soon.

I know, that's what the stats indicate! It's just confounding that there haven't been any yet.

 

[Teioh]

I know, that's what the stats indicate! It's just confounding that there haven't been any yet.

DO-wise she applied late. Plain and simple.

If you wanna tell me that she's been complete for months then there absolutely has to be something toxic about that app

Edit: probably the PS

 

[andybshaker]

DO-wise she applied late. Plain and simple.

If you wanna tell me that she's been complete for months then there absolutely has to be something toxic in that app

Oh dear...

 

[njtrimed]

Hi all, a good friend of mine has a 3.8 GPA and got a 508 on the MCAT. She hasn't received a single interview and is understandably having a pretty tough time. I am completely at a loss for how this could have happened. She's been in the same lab since freshman year, has tons of clinical and leadership experience, the whole deal. I know the MCAT is a tad on the low side, but I wouldn't expect that to preclude her from any interviews, especially given that she applied to 5 DO schools, all of our public IS schools, and none from the top tier. The only thing I can maybe think of is an abysmally bad PS (I didn't read it so I can't comment on it) or maybe a poison LOR. Does anyone have any insight?

With a 68 LizzyM and no DO IIs, it could be a terrible PS or poor app overall. There is also the possibility that there's a red flag somewhere in her app.

 

[captain.howdy]

DO-wise she applied late. Plain and simple.

If you wanna tell me that she's been complete for months then there absolutely has to be something toxic about that app

Edit: probably the PS

completing secondaries in august is not late for DO or MD schools. Although I do agree that it sounds like there is probably something toxic about her application- I would bet it being the personal statement

 

[Mad Jack]

DO schools droll over that GPA. A DO II should be on its way very soon.

There were a few places that never got back to me with a 3.8/35 on the DO side, likely because I didn't have enough volunteering or any research. It's not all about grades and MCAT, it's about the whole applicant.

 

[Lawpy]

There were a few places that never got back to me with a 3.8/35 on the DO side, likely because I didn't have enough volunteering or any research. It's not all about grades and MCAT, it's about the whole applicant.

I am surprised DO schools care about research.

 

[Mad Jack]

I am surprised DO schools care about research.

It's more of I had little of one and none of the other so they added up to a huge application deficit for a few schools.

 

[Ismet]

When you folks talk about flaws in the written application and P.S, how bad are we talking? Poor articulation, doesn't seem empathetic, doesn't stand stand out, grammatical errors?

I'm curious because I am having a ridiculously hard time trying to articulate my thoughts on to paper.

In addition to what LizzyM said above,

1) This is a formal application to a professional school. Your written material should thus be in a professional tone. If I'm reading your written material and it sounds like you're talking to your BFF, you're doing it wrong.

2) The descriptions you write in the activities section should really be utilized to their fullest extent. Not talking about word/character count, but they shouldn't be 1-2 sentences if you actually got something out of the experience. You also don't have to relate every single thing to medicine. Spend less time talking in intricate detail about the things you did and rather talk about what you got out of it.

3) Your responses to secondary essays should answer the question that was asked. Don't try to twist the prompt in order to use a copy/pasted essay that vaguely fits the prompt. Answer what you're asked.

4) Related to #3, copy-pasting an essay and forgetting to change the school name.

5) Naivety, immaturity

A poorly written essay with grammatical and spelling errors is won't help an applicant. An essay that reflects an immature decision to pursue a career in medicine is going to be a negative. An essay that indicates that the writer has an unrealistic view of the practice of medicine in the twenty-first century is going to hurt.

I recently read a PS where the applicant apparently didn't believe in the use of commas.

 

[Lawpy]

It's more of I had little of one and none of the other so they added up to a huge application deficit for a few schools.

Even still, to think they would simply pass over a 73 LizzyM applicant with strong clinical exposure is a bit unsettling. It's as if every school were following the Top 20 paradigm of selecting for well-rounded applicants.

 

[LizzyM]

I recently read a PS where the applicant apparently didn't believe in the use of commas.

I recently read a PS that was ghost written by e.e. cummings. Or at least I strongly suspected that was the case. 😉

 

[chizledfrmstone]

There were a few places that never got back to me with a 3.8/35 on the DO side, likely because I didn't have enough volunteering or any research. It's not all about grades and MCAT, it's about the whole applicant.

They probably thought you were going MD with those stats.

 

[Mad Jack]

They probably thought you were going MD with those stats.

Probably.

 

[Goro]

Agree with these and Ismet's post above. Poorly written essays are a chore to get through.

Too much ego and hubris in essays are also app killers. One Adcom here has referred to reading some where the writers thought they were God'd gift to Medicine. Others were a regurgitation of accomplishments but simply didn't answer the questions of "Who and I? and "Why Medicine?" Apparently too many people treat the PS as an excuse to state why they'd be good med students, when what we're after are people who will make good doctors.

When you folks talk about flaws in the written application and P.S, how bad are we talking? Poor articulation, doesn't seem empathetic, doesn't stand stand out, grammatical errors?

I'm curious because I am having a ridiculously hard time trying to articulate my thoughts on to paper.

A poorly written essay with grammatical and spelling errors is won't help an applicant. An essay that reflects an immature decision to pursue a career in medicine is going to be a negative. An essay that indicates that the writer has an unrealistic view of the practice of medicine in the twenty-first century is going to hurt.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

Agree with these and Ismet's post above. Poorly written essays are a chore to get through.

Too much ego and hubris in essays are also app killers. One Adcom here has referred to reading some where the writers thought they were God'd gift to Medicine. Others were a regurgitation of accomplishments but simply didn't answer the questions of "Who and I? and "Why Medicine?" Apparently too many people treat the PS as an excuse to state why they'd be good med students, when what we're after are people who will make good doctors.

I'm your opinion, what does it take to get your PS read in the first place? @gyngyn @LizzyM

Although perhaps less apparent from my posts on this forum, rhetoric and persuasive writing are strong points of mine, so I want to make sure my PS is actually seen.

 

[Goro]

The wise LizzyM has discussed this in detail. But rule of thumb: stats get you to the door, and ECs in. Having a GOOD app is a must, and probably being in the demographic of the school's mission is up there as well (for example, in CA, someone who lives in the Central valley will get priority at UCD; Hawkeyes get first crack at U IA).

I'm your opinion, what does it take to get your PS read in the first place? @gyngyn @LizzyM

Although perhaps less apparent from my posts on this forum, rhetoric and persuasive writing are strong points of mine, so I want to make sure my PS is actually seen.

 

[Ukpremed]

She could have an IA or criminal record.

 

[LizzyM]

A bad LOR is a possibility. I can recall a letter that said that someone didn't try very hard on the last exam because the instructor would drop the lowest score and the applicant already had an A in the course. Some will say in not so many words that the applicant is bright but quiet and not a contributor to class discussion. Some will pretty much describe a student who is an insufferable grade-grubber. These letters are rare but I have seen them over the years.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

A bad LOR is a possibility. I can recall a letter that said that someone didn't try very hard on the last exam because the instructor would drop the lowest score and the applicant already had an A in the course.

Why is that even construed as negative? Disrespectful to the prof? I do that sometimes because I am prioritizing my other exams. I don't ever not study, but Im not going to spend day and night if its unnecessary.

 

[njtrimed]

Why is that even construed as negative? I do that sometimes because I am prioritizing my other exams.

I don't think it is necessarily a negative thing to use your time wisely and blow something off that isn't required, but it's obviously not wise to ask that professor for a LOR if you're clearly only in it for the A, rather than demonstrating genuine interest in the course!

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

I don't think it is necessarily a negative thing to use your time wisely and blow something off that isn't required, but it's obviously not wise to ask that professor for a LOR if you're clearly only in it for the A, rather than demonstrating genuine interest in the course!

Guess I wasn't thinking about it in that way because the classes I have done this in I would never ask for a LOR from anyways

 

[avgn]

It's the PS. I helped a friend once to go over her PS and just see if it passes the BS test. It smelled soooooooooooo bad. Basically at the end of the 300-word essay (yeah, really short), I still had no clue why she wanted to be a doctor. Wrote something about her family member getting sick, but that's not the whole reason...ok...said she has family members in the profession but there was no pressure from them...ok...said she wants to put her history degree to good use in the field and that it helps her communicate with patients...ok...says history made her a good write but she uses the em dash sentence structure like commas...ok...some disclaimer about her science grades being a bit low but she hopes people will see her MCAT is high (seriously, she spends a paragraph on this)...ok...laundry lists some ECs and said that even though they were fund, she still came back to science and medicine...ok...concludes with something about helping herself taught her she could help others

You're loling at this point but I can tell you that she didn't like that I didn't like it and probably submitted it without making many changes. No IIs this cycle even with a broad list of schools, LizzyM like 75-76 I think.

So yeah, there are huge problems with people's apps that we don't know about LOL

 

[andybshaker]

It's the PS. I helped a friend once to go over her PS and just see if it passes the BS test. It smelled soooooooooooo bad. Basically at the end of the 300-word essay (yeah, really short), I still had no clue why she wanted to be a doctor. Wrote something about her family member getting sick, but that's not the whole reason...ok...said she has family members in the profession but there was no pressure from them...ok...said she wants to put her history degree to good use in the field and that it helps her communicate with patients...ok...says history made her a good write but she uses the em dash sentence structure like commas...ok...some disclaimer about her science grades being a bit low but she hopes people will see her MCAT is high (seriously, she spends a paragraph on this)...ok...laundry lists some ECs and said that even though they were fund, she still came back to science and medicine...ok...concludes with something about helping herself taught her she could help others

You're loling at this point but I can tell you that she didn't like that I didn't like it and probably submitted it without making many changes. No IIs this cycle even with a broad list of schools, LizzyM like 75-76 I think.

So yeah, there are huge problems with people's apps that we don't know about LOL

Wow, that sounds horrendous. I sometimes think my PS was really bad, but I guess it must be alright if I have four interviews. I don't think a lot of people realize how important it is.

 

[Ismet]

I'm your opinion, what does it take to get your PS read in the first place? @gyngyn @LizzyM

Although perhaps less apparent from my posts on this forum, rhetoric and persuasive writing are strong points of mine, so I want to make sure my PS is actually seen.

Some schools will read every application.