My First Cadaver

[binko]

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I just visited OUCOM's gross anatomy lab and saw my first cadaver. I got to hold her heart and kidney and examine her uterus. Definitely a fascinating and powerful experience. I just had to write about it here even though I'm sure there are similar threads all over the place, because it was a really special moment for me.

 

[Eudjinn]

you really should not be divulging the name of any body donated to a medical school, especially on an internet forum. i'm surprised this school even tells the students the names of the bodies. our school did not list a name nor a cause of death.

i'm glad this was a special moment for you and i can tell you are obviously excited about "holding her heart, kidney and examining the uterus," but since you are obviously interviewing and on your way to becoming a doc, now is a good time to embrace professionalism (i.e. not giving away any confidential information, especially on an internet forum).

working with cadavers is in fact an awe-inspiring experience initially, but take my word that your amazement will fade quickly and you will look back on this post and find it silly, as I currently do 🙂

 

[Hokie06]

lol eudjinn way to crash her moment!

now i know not to mess with u!

jk 😀

 

[pyropig]

I just visited OUCOM's gross anatomy lab and saw my first cadaver. I got to hold her heart and kidney and examine her uterus. Definitely a fascinating and powerful experience. I just had to write about it here even though I'm sure there are similar threads all over the place, because it was a really special moment for me.

The med students aren't even supposed to know her name, thats HIPAA 101

 

[dominate]

that's strange because all of the medical schools I visited covered up the bodies before we even went into the lab. I did not know that they were allowed to show visitors the bodies... i thought it was prohibited.😕

 

[binko]

At OU-COM all students are told their cadaver's name, cause of death, other major medical issues at time of death, and occupation while alive. I'm pretty sure when you agree to donate your body to science you sign something that abridges HIPAA.

Edit: I searched and was unable to find anything about cadavers and HIPAA. If anyone's got a link I'd like to read it.

Your search - site:www.hipaa.org cadaver - did not match any documents.

Anyway, all I gave out was a pretty common first name. That on its own is hardly identifying. But I removed it just in case I was violating some policy I don't know about. I assumed it was okay to post since that information was displayed on a typed sheet at the foot of her table in the gross lab.

I didn't get to see it on a regular campus tour. I'm an undergrad at OU taking an MCAT class from an MS-II. She said that all students in gross anatomy get keys to the lab and are allowed to show their own cadaver to visitors, as long as the visitor is someone seriously interested in medicine.

 

[pyropig]

At OU-COM all students are told their cadaver's name, cause of death, other major medical issues at time of death, and occupation while alive. I'm pretty sure when you agree to donate your body to science you sign something that abridges HIPAA.

Edit: I searched and was unable to find anything about cadavers and HIPAA. If anyone's got a link I'd like to read it.



Anyway, all I gave out was a pretty common first name. That on its own is hardly identifying. But I removed it just in case I was violating some policy I don't know about. I assumed it was okay to post since that information was displayed on a typed sheet at the foot of her table in the gross lab.

I didn't get to see it on a regular campus tour. I'm an undergrad at OU taking an MCAT class from an MS-II. She said that all students in gross anatomy get keys to the lab and are allowed to show their own cadaver to visitors, as long as the visitor is someone seriously interested in medicine.

I'd say its quite identifying, how many cadavers with that first name have been donated to that school? lol. It's the family that would get pissed and sue if they found out. A lot of times when a body is donated its used, cremated by he med school then the remains are given back to the family, with understanding that privacy and decency will be observed. Legally you said enough to get the school in trouble, but it's gone now, no harm no foul.

 

[MossPoh]

Many places just give them a name to have something to call them by. My friend's cadaver was "Frank".

 

[nevinleiby]

Hmm....I've seen/heard of a range of rules regarding anatomy, etc...I've generally heard that no one can take photos (even students of their own cadaver), no visitors what-so-ever (eg, not even my wife who gave up medicine to pursue nursing), etc and even candidates couldn't go into one school's anatomy lab b/c cadavers were present in the room (maybe uncovered?), but I thought on death, names were open to the public? I had a friend who worked with a corner...even though some people suggested that she used the name of the person because it would enhance her personal statement, she chose not to...precisely b/c of the discrepancy with the living/HIPPA.

The impression that I always got was that it was approached professionally and self-regulated. Even though it may not be written/spoken (that would be a REAL surprise considering the size of student handbooks!), most ppl ended up just pulling the curtain over that aspect to remain professional, etc.

If one program discloses a little bit of interesting information (name, age, c.o.death, profession), I'd keep that only to myself and to boost my understanding of the patients life circumstances and ultimately boost my motivation to pursue medicine and help someone else not run into the same fate. At the very least, be thankful of the program and respect them by keeping it tight-lipped especially if you were enrolling or planning on applying to their school.

Stiff is an interesting book regarding cadavers, etc...

 

[spicedmanna]

At OU-COM all students are told their cadaver's name, cause of death, other major medical issues at time of death, and occupation while alive. I'm pretty sure when you agree to donate your body to science you sign something that abridges HIPAA.

Edit: I searched and was unable to find anything about cadavers and HIPAA. If anyone's got a link I'd like to read it.

HHS HIPAA Administrative Simplification, § 164.502 (f):

Standard: Deceased individuals. A covered entity must comply with the requirements of this subpart with respect to the protected health information of a deceased individual.

I presume that cadavers fall under "deceased individuals."

BTW, I agree that working w/ a cadaver can be a powerful experience. 👍 Attend an autopsy when you get a chance; it's even more profound.

 

[binko]

It seems there is a puzzling discrepancy in policy between med schools.

I hope my initial response didn't seem toe defensive; it's always disappointing to hear that one's behavior is seen to be lacking in professionalism.

Honestly it didn't cross my mind that it might be considered confidential, considering the combination of how prominently that information was displayed, and the liberal visitors' policy at OUCOM.

The prohibition on photographing the cadavers makes sense; you could identify them pretty positively based on facial features, and it would be quite a shock to see a deceased loved one with shaved head and skin discolored from the preservatives.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that the reason I included the name in the original post was because I think OU's efforts of acknowledgement of the identities and personhood of the cadavers is a really positive thing that inspires reverence for life, not because I was trying to be careless with identifying data.

Thanks all, for keeping me honest.

 

[spicedmanna]

Uh oh, do we have a future surgeon in the house? 😛

Don't sweat it, binko. It clearly wasn't intentional and no harm was done. There does seems to be some variance in what constitutes respectful treatment of human body donors across schools and probably around agreements made w/ the donors and/or their families. HIPAA itself can be confusing, too.

Anyway, I applaud your enthusiasm, which was readily palpable. To me, there are few things that say, "Yeah, I'm in the pre-clinical years of medical school," more universally than working w/ cadavers. It's a rite of passage and I think a truly powerful and valuable learning experience. I really appreciate the body donors for allowing us the privilege. I was in awe when I first started gross anatomy and I can't even express all that I learned from working w/ cadavers during 1st year. There's something really incredible about actually getting an in situ view of everything, just as it is, in relation to everything else and I really value the tactile/kinesthetic learning experience.

If you think working w/ cadavers is cool, I was surprised by how much I learned from being able to participate in an autopsy. Seriously, if you can swing it, I highly recommend the experience. There are definitely things you can learn from it that you can't get from a donated preserved specimen.

 

[Eudjinn]

i hope i didn't tear into you too much in my first post binko 🙂 medical school has made me coldddddd and harddddddd hehehe

no harm done. keep up the enthusiasm.

 

[binko]

i hope i didn't tear into you too much in my first post binko 🙂 medical school has made me coldddddd and harddddddd hehehe

no harm done. keep up the enthusiasm.

No problem. It's your feeling, you're entitled to it.

The MS II's I talked to said they don't get to step back and think about the whole "wow that's a human" thing just because they're busy dissecting and learning. When I told them how I felt about it, they didn't seem to share your feeling and seemed to enjoy being reminded of that initial awe. So I guess everyone feels differently about it.

Even though I won't have time to really contemplate it much when I'm a med student, I doubt I'll adopt the opinion that you expressed in your OP, though. Because of my temperament in general, I tend to tend more towards the sentimental and the philosophical than the totally practical. Hell, I even get a little rush from staying up late studying physics, knowing that I'm getting closer to my goal of Helping People™, hehe.

(And before you jump to conclusions, I'm not a freshman pre-med, I'm actually a non-trad with a job and a Bachelor's degree. Just FYI.)

 

[binko]

Nft.

 

[spicedmanna]

The MS II's I talked to said they don't get to step back and think about the whole "wow that's a human" thing just because they're busy dissecting and learning. When I told them how I felt about it, they didn't seem to share your feeling and seemed to enjoy being reminded of that initial awe. So I guess everyone feels differently about it.

I'm a second year medical student and I affirm your statement. It's easy to get desensitized to the whole process, but I remember and appreciate the awe you are talking about. I haven't found too much time for reflection in medical school...well, none that are free of charge, that is.

Even though I won't have time to really contemplate it much when I'm a med student, I doubt I'll adopt the opinion that you expressed in your OP, though. Because of my temperament in general, I tend to tend more towards the sentimental and the philosophical than the totally practical. Hell, I even get a little rush from staying up late studying physics, knowing that I'm getting closer to my goal of Helping People™, hehe.

(And before you jump to conclusions, I'm not a freshman pre-med, I'm actually a non-trad with a job and a Bachelor's degree. Just FYI.)

Don't worry about it. My personal experience is that while some degree of desensitization is inevitable and indeed even healthy, temperaments don't change that much overall. If it does change, it's usually by choice.