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I lost my lap appe cherry today. It went OK, I guess. I was awkward and felt like a klutz. Just like the first time with...other things. Any interns out there feel me on this?
Sucks for me. I'll probably never have the opportunity to do an open appy seeing as how im only 16 right now. Lap appys will probably be replaced by something less interactive by then, even.Nor here.
Quite a few open appys and two lap choles by this time during my intern year, IIRC.
Sucks for me. I'll probably never have the opportunity to do an open appy seeing as how im only 16 right now. Lap appys will probably be replaced by something less interactive by then, even.
Are you guys serious about lap appe done by interns so early? Not in my program.
Lap appys will probably be replaced by something less interactive by then, even.
In 10 years (when you're finishing med school), NOTES may be pretty commonplace.
Laparoscopy and other technologies are just a tool in the surgeon's tool bag.
lap appy is a tough case for an intern.
Whats up with it being Oct 12 and you just now doing an appy? Are your seniors stealing intern cases?
Are you guys serious about lap appe done by interns so early? Not in my program.
I've seen interns in other programs in the area do lap choles and typically it's the attending on the patient's right with two graspers in the subcostal ports, manipulating the gall bladder, and the intern, on the patient's left, who's got the hook cautery in one hand and the scope in the other.
Funny. In my program and where I went to med school, anything laparoscopic was PGY-3 or higher.
How do you interns out there who are doing lap choles do them (what instruments are in your hands during the case)?
I've seen interns in other programs in the area do lap choles and typically it's the attending on the patient's right with two graspers in the subcostal ports, manipulating the gall bladder, and the intern, on the patient's left, who's got the hook cautery in one hand and the scope in the other.
Our interns are typically relegated to lumps, bumps, and uncomplicated hernias and holding hook for me.
Honestly, I don't see how one way demands more skill than the other. I don't have any problems retracting and burning at the same time. You act like "manipulating the gallbladder" is a big deal. It's a relatively static process during the critical portions of the case (being attaining the critical view and dissecting out the duct and artery).
Your left hand (the grasper hand) is the entire key to performing a lap chole, knowing how to retract/manipulate the gall bladder so that you can see where the hook is going to go.
It actually is a big deal and translates to your ability to do advanced laparoscopy. If it doesn't seem like a big deal, either you're a super-star PGY 2 surgical resident (Kuods!) or your attendings are moving the fundus about while your left hand is "static."
I disagree. There are alot of other ways to manipulate the gallbladder and enhance visibility without moving your left hand. Being good with the 30 degree camera, for one, is key to having good visibility. Knowing how to manipulate the hook in an effective, safe manner seems equally as important.
As for the retraction on the infundibulum, you can only pull it in so many directions. And when I do the case, the fundus remains static during the critical portion of the case, retracted over the dome of the liver. I've done the surgery both ways multiple times (left hand on the camera, and left hand manipulating the gallbladder), and I honestly don't see a big difference in the level of difficulty.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think knowing how to retract is the key to "advanced laparoscopy." The only exception is possibly when the attending prefers the "dome down" approach. I do find the retraction somewhat more difficult in that case.
Don't get me wrong: I am not an expert at lap choles, and I am most certainly not an expert of advanced laparoscopy. If you read my first post in this thread, you can see that I also didn't come here to brag about my experience. However, I've done a lot of them, both as a first assistant, and as a junior surgeon. I've been on both sides of the table, had all the different instruments in my hand, and seen multiple different approaches to yanking out gallbags.
That is because I am at a community program, and no gallbladder is safe in private practice, especially the healthy ones. And I can't help but take a little offense when you insinuate that any intern doing the case is either some ridiculous phenom, or is unknowingly being piggy-backed through the entire case by the attending.
Maybe being good at gallbladders makes you a PGY-2 phenom in New York, but it is par for the course in Wichita. Not because we're better surgeons, but because our caseload is very different than yours. Your experience is obviously different, but please don't assume that the way your institution does things is the only way.
The 3 surgical specialties I'm not sure i want to pursue are plastics, OB/GYN and orthopedics. I've never done ANY prodecure yet lol, but it seems like an open procedure would be alot easier to do, and would probably help you learn a bit better.Why so anxious to do an open appy? And what do you mean by "interactive"? I don't think that they'll have developed "psychic surgery" by the time you actually graduate from med school.
If you really like open procedures, think about OB/gyn. No such thing as a laproscopic c-section! (Yet.)
I apologize if you took such great offense to my earlier comments. But in all seriousness you should be a little more open to suggestions from some of us who have "been there, done that" a few hundred times more.
Good luck.
The 3 surgical specialties I'm not sure i want to pursue are plastics, OB/GYN and orthopedics.
The 3 surgical specialties I'm not sure i want to pursue are plastics, OB/GYN and orthopedics.
I definitely respect your input. I think I misinterpreted genuine curiosity for condescension regarding junior residents. When I thought you were labeling us all as naive, I felt compelled to come to the defense of myself and my co-juniors.
Interns are a different story...
In addition to the above, it is much easier to move the organ yourself to facilitate exposure than it is to teach someone to do it for you/read your mind.