My first R01

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Neuronix

Total nerd
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
20+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
14,915
Reaction score
8,847
It's going to be my 20th Anniversary on SDN soon. Back then I was a high school dropout who snuck into my "no name state school" and picked up a pre-med program out of interest. I found this community, and I'm still here all these years later.

My R01 summary statement reads 6th percentile--well below the payline.

After all these years of hard work, sacrifice, and a ton of self-doubt, it's finally happening.

For a decade I called myself a physician-scientist wannabe. I'm a physician-scientist now.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
  • Love
  • Care
Reactions: 52 users
It's going to be my 20th Anniversary on SDN soon. Back then I was a high school dropout who snuck into my "no name state school" and picked up a pre-med program out of interest. I found this community, and I'm still here all these years later.

My R01 summary statement reads 6th percentile--well below the payline.

After all these years of hard work, sacrifice, and a ton of self-doubt, it's finally happening.

For a decade I called myself a physician-scientist wannabe. I'm a physician-scientist now.
congrats to you. You were a physician-scientist before this external validation, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Members don't see this ad :)
It's going to be my 20th Anniversary on SDN soon. Back then I was a high school dropout who snuck into my "no name state school" and picked up a pre-med program out of interest. I found this community, and I'm still here all these years later.

My R01 summary statement reads 6th percentile--well below the payline.

After all these years of hard work, sacrifice, and a ton of self-doubt, it's finally happening.

For a decade I called myself a physician-scientist wannabe. I'm a physician-scientist now.
Congrats! Persistence usually pays off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Congratulations, Neuronix; this is an outstanding achievement! I remember you from your application days, and am so happy for you. I cite individuals like you when I am talking to students from "no name" undergrad programs. Keep up the great work!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
It's going to be my 20th Anniversary on SDN soon. Back then I was a high school dropout who snuck into my "no name state school" and picked up a pre-med program out of interest. I found this community, and I'm still here all these years later.

My R01 summary statement reads 6th percentile--well below the payline.

After all these years of hard work, sacrifice, and a ton of self-doubt, it's finally happening.

For a decade I called myself a physician-scientist wannabe. I'm a physician-scientist now.
Congrats @Neuronix ! that's amazing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It's going to be my 20th Anniversary on SDN soon. Back then I was a high school dropout who snuck into my "no name state school" and picked up a pre-med program out of interest. I found this community, and I'm still here all these years later.

My R01 summary statement reads 6th percentile--well below the payline.

After all these years of hard work, sacrifice, and a ton of self-doubt, it's finally happening.

For a decade I called myself a physician-scientist wannabe. I'm a physician-scientist now.

Well done! I have followed you for years. I got my first R a few months ago too....age 44.
 
  • Like
  • Love
  • Care
Reactions: 6 users
Well done! I have followed you for years. I got my first R a few months ago too....age 44.

Age 40 here.
Congratulations, Neuronix; this is an outstanding achievement! I remember you from your application days, and am so happy for you. I cite individuals like you when I am talking to students from "no name" undergrad programs. Keep up the great work!

Send them my way, happy to talk to them. That's why I'm still here.
 
Age 40 here.


Send them my way, happy to talk to them. That's why I'm still here.
Can you comment on how this will change your career direction? Switching from clinical to tenure track? More dedicated research time? Higher salary? Ability to hire techs/postdocs to do your bidding? Ability to pursue the research questions you find interesting? Are you doing wet lab or dry lab work? How many "pre-RO1" grants did you obtain (career development awards, K08, etc.), and how many times did you submit R01 before you were funded?
 
Thanks for all the questions.

Can you comment on how this will change your career direction? Switching from clinical to tenure track?

At my institution the de facto rule is no tenure track for faculty who see patients. They want you to earn tenure on the clinical track and then just switch from clinical track to tenured. This generally requires two R01 equivalents over time. It's uncommon but I've seen it happen to maybe one person per year at the University across all departments.

Tenure doesn't do anything for you to my knowledge. Sure they can't fire you but they almost never fire clinical faculty anyway. Tenure guarantees some small percentage of clinical salary but that's kind of meaningless for faculty who see patients because they can always see more patients and keep up their salary.

I'm told that I can switch to tenure track if I want but it's just more of a headache with all the pressures of tenure track and no real benefits for clinical faculty.

More dedicated research time?

This is negotiated. I'm at 40% clinical for now. I'm a little worried that may be too much. Whatever the number is, my experience has been that I always end up more clinical than the percentage suggests. There's some nuances to my specialty that cause this as well.

Higher salary?

Yes. I negotiated that with the R01. I also had another higher paying offer in hand. I'm not sure they would have paid me more without that competing offer.

The story in my case was that I was significantly underpaid compared to my more clinical counterparts because of my K grant. Essentially I hadn't had a pay raise in many years because of the K and my bonus potential was lower than my clinical colleagues. I was accepting of that while I was 25% clinical. It was a strain on my family because I have two young children and live in a very high cost of living location.

When I came off my K, they didn't know when or how much my pay would be raised, so I started looking. I got an offer that wanted me with or without the R grant, though obviously the R makes me even more competitive to leave. When I got the R I told them to either raise my pay or I was taking it with me. As a result of that negotiation I've been promised what a productive clinical colleague would make at my institution with bonuses and directorship. That hasn't yet materialized because this is very recent.

Ability to hire techs/postdocs to do your bidding?

I already had that from my K and startup package. I wasn't hired with a startup package and essentially got the K with shared equipment, extra hard work, and some volunteer help from students.

When I got the K, I got a startup package with the K that covered essentially two people including the K. They're continuing the startup package with the R01 which is nice of them. I'm using that money to develop second and third R01 data.

Ability to pursue the research questions you find interesting?

Nobody ever told me what to do research on. My specific area of research is not otherwise researched in my department or institution, though you can find some others outside my department in the same broad areas who have mentored and collaborated. Mentorship over the years has been crucial to shape the questions I'm asking in the right ways.

However, I should make it clear that I do translational research. This shapes my research questions. To overly simplify, I started my faculty position thinking that I was going to treat one disease, but demand was for me to treat something else. So I pivoted early on and got the K and R in my new patient population.

I always strongly recommend to do research on the patients you're seeing. It gives you a niche that nobody else has.

Are you doing wet lab or dry lab work? How many "pre-RO1" grants did you obtain (career development awards, K08, etc.), and how many times did you submit R01 before you were funded?

Most of my work is dry lab in imaging, though it's very hands on with patients and technique development. I have an increasing wet lab trajectory with patient samples from the diseases I'm studying and treating.

I was writing a K08 when a K12 program became available. I got the K12 on the first try. I was co-I on two larger grants that were multi-institutional and headed from outside my university. I also got two small competitive internal grants. In a sheer stroke of luck for me, one of my patients happened to be from a very rich family. We have a great relationship and they now donate to my lab as well.

The R01 was my first attempt. I got a very good score the first time that was close to funding. The resubmission was well within funding range. I'm hoping for R37 MERIT as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12 users
Thanks for all the questions.



At my institution the de facto rule is no tenure track for faculty who see patients. They want you to earn tenure on the clinical track and then just switch from clinical track to tenured. This generally requires two R01 equivalents over time. It's uncommon but I've seen it happen to maybe one person per year at the University across all departments.

Tenure doesn't do anything for you to my knowledge. Sure they can't fire you but they almost never fire clinical faculty anyway. Tenure guarantees some small percentage of clinical salary but that's kind of meaningless for faculty who see patients because they can always see more patients and keep up their salary.

I'm told that I can switch to tenure track if I want but it's just more of a headache with all the pressures of tenure track and no real benefits for clinical faculty.



This is negotiated. I'm at 40% clinical for now. I'm a little worried that may be too much. Whatever the number is, my experience has been that I always end up more clinical than the percentage suggests. There's some nuances to my specialty that cause this as well.



Yes. I negotiated that with the R01. I also had another higher paying offer in hand. I'm not sure they would have paid me more without that competing offer.

The story in my case was that I was significantly underpaid compared to my more clinical counterparts because of my K grant. Essentially I hadn't had a pay raise in many years because of the K and my bonus potential was lower than my clinical colleagues. I was accepting of that while I was 25% clinical. It was a strain on my family because I have two young children and live in a very high cost of living location.

When I came off my K, they didn't know when or how much my pay would be raised, so I started looking. I got an offer that wanted me with or without the R grant, though obviously the R makes me even more competitive to leave. When I got the R I told them to either raise my pay or I was taking it with me. As a result of that negotiation I've been promised what a productive clinical colleague would make at my institution with bonuses and directorship. That hasn't yet materialized because this is very recent.



I already had that from my K and startup package. I wasn't hired with a startup package and essentially got the K with shared equipment, extra hard work, and some volunteer help from students.

When I got the K, I got a startup package with the K that covered essentially two people including the K. They're continuing the startup package with the R01 which is nice of them. I'm using that money to develop second and third R01 data.



Nobody ever told me what to do research on. My specific area of research is not otherwise researched in my department or institution, though you can find some others outside my department in the same broad areas who have mentored and collaborated. Mentorship over the years has been crucial to shape the questions I'm asking in the right ways.

However, I should make it clear that I do translational research. This shapes my research questions. To overly simplify, I started my faculty position thinking that I was going to treat one disease, but demand was for me to treat something else. So I pivoted early on and got the K and R in my new patient population.

I always strongly recommend to do research on the patients you're seeing. It gives you a niche that nobody else has.



Most of my work is dry lab in imaging, though it's very hands on with patients and technique development. I have an increasing wet lab trajectory with patient samples from the diseases I'm studying and treating.

I was writing a K08 when a K12 program became available. I got the K12 on the first try. I was co-I on two larger grants that were multi-institutional and headed from outside my university. I also got two small competitive internal grants. In a sheer stroke of luck for me, one of my patients happened to be from a very rich family. We have a great relationship and they now donate to my lab as well.

The R01 was my first one. I got a very good score the first time that was close to funding. The resubmission was well within funding range. I'm hoping for R37 MERIT as well.

Thanks for all the details. It's very helpful. Congrats again on this well-deserved accomplishment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I was writing a K08 when a K12 program became available. I got the K12 on the first try. I was co-I on two larger grants that were multi-institutional and headed from outside my university. I also got two small competitive internal grants. In a sheer stroke of luck for me, one of my patients happened to be from a very rich family. We have a great relationship and they now donate to my lab as well.

The R01 was my first one. I got a very good score the first time that was close to funding. The resubmission was well within funding range. I'm hoping for R37 MERIT as well.

A K12 is intramural, right? How long was yours? Did the request for applications just open up by chance?

Also, congrats! 40 is pretty young for a first R01, based on all the stats posted on this forum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
A K12 is intramural, right? How long was yours? Did the request for applications just open up by chance?

Yes K12 is intramural. I was writing a K08 when I coincidentally saw an internal announcement for our first K12 request for applications. So I submitted the K08 work as a K12 instead and got it.

I think K12 programs are variable in length, but ours was only two years. I had the option to still submit the K08 at the end (not sure if that would have been 3 more years or 5 years?), but I decided to gamble with R01 submission instead. My mentors thought I was ready for R01, and they were right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Yes K12 is intramural. I was writing a K08 when I coincidentally saw an internal announcement for our first K12 request for applications. So I submitted the K08 work as a K12 instead and got it.

I think K12 programs are variable in length, but ours was only two years. I had the option to still submit the K08 at the end (not sure if that would have been 3 more years or 5 years?), but I decided to gamble with R01 submission instead. My mentors thought I was ready for R01, and they were right.

That’s amazing! Very impressive to get anything done in 2 years, let alone preparatory work for a successful R01.

To all others reading: Neuronix’s experience is rather exceptional. Most successful R01s in my department had an extramural K, rather than a K12. Most K12s that I have seen don’t produce much and drop out of academic medicine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Interesting perspective. It was very clear that they expected the K12 to prepare us for R submission (R21 or R01) or equivalent other types of grants.

I'm not sure if that was just naïve. I know there was some discussion after our first site review that maybe expecting R01 submission was too much after the K12 and they became more neutral on K08 or R submission after K12.

In my case I started the K12 after three full years on faculty. During those three years I was mostly clinical on clinical track, but I was preparing the R01 study and preliminary data on nights and weekends. If I had started as faculty and immediately got a K12, I do not think I would have been ready to submit an R01 after those two years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Interesting perspective. It was very clear that they expected the K12 to prepare us for R submission (R21 or R01) or equivalent other types of grants.

I'm not sure if that was just naïve. I know there was some discussion after our first site review that maybe expecting R01 submission was too much after the K12 and they became more neutral on K08 or R submission after K12.

In my case I started the K12 after three full years on faculty. During those three years I was mostly clinical on clinical track, but I was preparing the R01 study and preliminary data on nights and weekends. If I had started as faculty and immediately got a K12, I do not think I would have been ready to submit an R01 after those two years.

Ah, interesting. At my institution, the K12 is mostly awarded to academics who have just finished fellowship or are just starting their faculty position, which I think is a waste.

The K12 is a tricky mechanism, because getting a K08 afterward is bad for the institution, as it just extends the period for which the faculty member is forced to bring in low pay. I do think a startup + a K12 is a good springboard for a R01, but I wonder how widespread that strategy is. And you say your startup was mostly on your own time anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Ah, interesting. At my institution, the K12 is mostly awarded to academics who have just finished fellowship or are just starting their faculty position, which I think is a waste.

I've heard of this as well. If that had been available to me, I would have jumped at such an opportunity rather than the way I did it. It was not easy switching gears repeatedly through the past 5+ years. It would have been easier for a lot of people if I had been hired initially as a research track person. The 60+ hour work weeks and uncertainty were also a strain, though I'm not sure it's possible to be a physician-scientist without those things.

The K12 is a tricky mechanism, because getting a K08 afterward is bad for the institution, as it just extends the period for which the faculty member is forced to bring in low pay.

Agreed. If the K08 is another 5 years, that's a total of 7 years. You either need a very committed institution to keep junior faculty going on a research track at full pay without a big grant for 7 years or a physician-scientist who is willing to accept instructor level pay for a long time. I know of places that do this, keep faculty at rates that are quite low for the specialty until the faculty member is able to bring in a real grant like an R01. I did ok salary wise though this whole period--less than most of my colleagues, but ok for assistant professor in my specialty. This was a mix of cancer center and department/University funds that kept me afloat, plus my clinical revenues. Before the K I was 70% clinical (with RVUs that were 80-100% clinical academics) and during the K my RVUs were more like 50-60% clinical academics, not 25%. So I was still pulling my financial weight to some extent.

I do think a startup + a K12 is a good springboard for a R01, but I wonder how widespread that strategy is. And you say your startup was mostly on your own time anyway.

Before the K it was mostly me pushing, though again I had shared equipment and some collaborators and students helping. I think the K12 and additional resources were a result of the cancer center recognizing how much I was doing with so little. With the K12 I did get additional resources to hire my own people and pay for minor research expenses. I am in the cancer center director's debt for his support of me initially and continued support over the years. I don't think I could have done this without my post-doc, and also my MD/PhD student contributed a key figure to the R01.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I've heard of this as well. If that had been available to me, I would have jumped at such an opportunity rather than the way I did it. It was not easy switching gears repeatedly through the past 5+ years. It would have been easier for a lot of people if I had been hired initially as a research track person. The 60+ hour work weeks and uncertainty were also a strain, though I'm not sure it's possible to be a physician-scientist without those things.



Agreed. If the K08 is another 5 years, that's a total of 7 years. You either need a very committed institution to keep junior faculty going on a research track at full pay without a big grant for 7 years or a physician-scientist who is willing to accept instructor level pay for a long time. I know of places that do this, keep faculty at rates that are quite low for the specialty until the faculty member is able to bring in a real grant like an R01. I did ok salary wise though this whole period--less than most of my colleagues, but ok for assistant professor in my specialty. This was a mix of cancer center and department/University funds that kept me afloat, plus my clinical revenues. Before the K I was 70% clinical (with RVUs that were 80-100% clinical academics) and during the K my RVUs were more like 50-60% clinical academics, not 25%. So I was still pulling my financial weight to some extent.



Before the K it was mostly me pushing, though again I had shared equipment and some collaborators and students helping. I think the K12 and additional resources were a result of the cancer center recognizing how much I was doing with so little. With the K12 I did get additional resources to hire my own people and pay for minor research expenses. I am in the cancer center director's debt for his support of me initially and continued support over the years. I don't think I could have done this without my post-doc, and also my MD/PhD student contributed a key figure to the R01.

Congratulations! About a decade ago you advised me as I prepared to apply to MSTP’s and I’m now graduating from one. It’s wonderful to see the success of someone who has contributed so much to the physician scientist community.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
Adding myself to this thread because I just got JIT. First R01 application, A0 submission. I'm 45 which apparently puts me right at the median age for first R01, though I feel very solidly mid career. This is my first NIH grant as PI, though I've been PI on a number of foundation and internal mechanisms as well as a couple of industry-funded clinical trials, and CoI on other people's NIH funded projects obviously. No K.

Just for bitter laughs, here from my Commons account is my list of previously submitted applications to the NIH:
F30, 2005 - not discussed
K23, 2015 - scored, not funded. Resubmission was not discussed
R21, 2016 - not discussed
R21, 2017 - not discussed
K23, 2018 - not discussed
R03, 2019 - not discussed
R21, 2021 - not discussed
R01, 2022 - funded first try

😂
 
  • Like
  • Love
  • Care
Reactions: 13 users
Adding myself to this thread because I just got JIT. First R01 application, A0 submission. I'm 45 which apparently puts me right at the median age for first R01, though I feel very solidly mid career. This is my first NIH grant as PI, though I've been PI on a number of foundation and internal mechanisms as well as a couple of industry-funded clinical trials, and CoI on other people's NIH funded projects obviously. No K.

Just for bitter laughs, here from my Commons account is my list of previously submitted applications to the NIH:
F30, 2005 - not discussed
K23, 2015 - scored, not funded. Resubmission was not discussed
R21, 2016 - not discussed
R21, 2017 - not discussed
K23, 2018 - not discussed
R03, 2019 - not discussed
R21, 2021 - not discussed
R01, 2022 - funded first try

😂
1 for every 7 or 8 sounds about right!

And…
1676695074741.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Adding myself to this thread because I just got JIT. First R01 application, A0 submission. I'm 45 which apparently puts me right at the median age for first R01, though I feel very solidly mid career. This is my first NIH grant as PI, though I've been PI on a number of foundation and internal mechanisms as well as a couple of industry-funded clinical trials, and CoI on other people's NIH funded projects obviously. No K.

Just for bitter laughs, here from my Commons account is my list of previously submitted applications to the NIH:
F30, 2005 - not discussed
K23, 2015 - scored, not funded. Resubmission was not discussed
R21, 2016 - not discussed
R21, 2017 - not discussed
K23, 2018 - not discussed
R03, 2019 - not discussed
R21, 2021 - not discussed
R01, 2022 - funded first try

😂
Ouch. Congrats.
 
Adding myself to this thread because I just got JIT. First R01 application, A0 submission. I'm 45 which apparently puts me right at the median age for first R01, though I feel very solidly mid career. This is my first NIH grant as PI, though I've been PI on a number of foundation and internal mechanisms as well as a couple of industry-funded clinical trials, and CoI on other people's NIH funded projects obviously. No K.

Just for bitter laughs, here from my Commons account is my list of previously submitted applications to the NIH:
F30, 2005 - not discussed
K23, 2015 - scored, not funded. Resubmission was not discussed
R21, 2016 - not discussed
R21, 2017 - not discussed
K23, 2018 - not discussed
R03, 2019 - not discussed
R21, 2021 - not discussed
R01, 2022 - funded first try

😂
Congrats on your success and kudos for your perseverance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It's going to be my 20th Anniversary on SDN soon. Back then I was a high school dropout who snuck into my "no name state school" and picked up a pre-med program out of interest. I found this community, and I'm still here all these years later.

My R01 summary statement reads 6th percentile--well below the payline.

After all these years of hard work, sacrifice, and a ton of self-doubt, it's finally happening.

For a decade I called myself a physician-scientist wannabe. I'm a physician-scientist now.
What a great story and a great win. Congratulations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top