My friend got kicked out of med school .

[medschool101x]

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I and my friend are both M-IIs . She got suspended for professional misconduct. She’s awaiting a hearing and most likely will be kicked out. She has a long history of mental illness . She threatened an attending after being angry . I’m not condemning her behavior I just want to know what her options are ?

 

[Tenk]

Her options are: a) get a lawyer, b) don't get a lawyer.

 

[LebronManning]

What med school?

What did she say?

And I think you meant you're not *condoning her behavior.

 

[ndafife]

I and my friend are both M-IIs . She got suspended for professional misconduct. She’s awaiting a hearing and most likely will be kicked out. She has a long history of mental illness . She threatened an attending after being angry . I’m not condemning her behavior I just want to know what her options are ?

She can appeal through whatever official channel your school has. A lawyer may or may not help formulate an argument for her staying based off of the details of the situation.

In general though, threatening attendings isn't a good way to stay in school

 

[sovereign0]

Most US MD schools won't dismiss due to a single isolated incident unless it's egregious... What was the manner of the threat? In any scenario, the best course of action is to act remorseful and say it won't happen again - and mean it.

 

[Lawpy]

I and my friend are both M-IIs . She got suspended for professional misconduct. She’s awaiting a hearing and most likely will be kicked out. She has a long history of mental illness . She threatened an attending after being angry . I’m not condemning her behavior I just want to know what her options are ?

Uh her behavior should be condemned because that's completely unprofessional and not acceptable in any circumstances.

I feel like there's more to the story but even with what we have, I think she's toast. Sorry.

 

[medschool101x]

What med school?

What did she say?

And I think you meant you're not *condoning her behavior.

It’s a medical school in Ohio . The threats kind of seemed that my friend was homicidal but she denies it .

 

[ndafife]

It’s a medical school in Ohio . The threats kind of seemed that my friend was homicidal but she denies it .

I'm trying to come up with something beneficial to say, but "seemed that my friend was homicidal" doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room.

And even if she denies it, when it comes down to "he said, she said" type scenarios, I don't see the school siding with a student over an attending (especially given the severity of the comments) unless the attending has a history of misconduct/lying/unprofessionalism

 

[LebronManning]

It’s a medical school in Ohio . The threats kind of seemed that my friend was homicidal but she denies it .

If she threatened an attending with homicide, her medical career being over is likely one of the least of her worries in life. She's lucky there's no pending criminal charges. Finally, I doubt she is of sound enough mind to practice medicine. Medicine is a field where one needs to handle frustration very well.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

No one is exempt from this. We have had several surgeons fired on the spot and walked out by security immediately after they threatened someone in the OR. This is the adult world, and some mistakes are not something you can take back. And if the friend was actively in the throes of a mental illness, then it’s probably not a good idea for her to be in med school either.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Sorry about your friend but I think that she’s done.

Having been in school and worked with a few bad apples, nothing is more exhausting than working in a high stress environment with people who can’t behave like adults.

 

[libertyyne]

I am sorry about your "friend" and her mental illness. However,

Call me old fashioned, but if you are making homicidal threats against superiors Im not sure I would want you in the position of making life or death decisions.

 

[MSTP18]

I am sorry about your "friend" and her mental illness.

Can't tell if everyone before you is just being nice and playing along or if people really didn't put that together.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Getting kicked out of med school is the least of this person's concerns, but in terms of that, this person is done and there is no point in trying to fight it. A lawyer will say the same thing.

As others have said: as an adult who threatened another adult, simply getting expelled from school is dodging a huge bullet. Your friend could have been looking at prison.

 

[radsisrad]

At least she's young enough to start another career without much opportunity cost.

 

[LutGholein]

That’s not good. Not good. Really have nothing beneficial to say— but not good.

 

[FindersFee5]

How the hell did an attending make your friend angry enough to threaten murder in SECOND YEAR? This is absolutely not a person that should be caring for patients even in the limited role that a third year student does.

 

[IlDestriero]

True story...
A former residency director was an enormous egomaniac and jackass. He relentlessly tormented his residents, pimping them incessantly, belittling them, openly mocking them, etc. Generally making their lives unnecessarily miserable. One day he picked on the wrong 3rd year resident one too many times. The (large muscular) guy finished the case and came barreling out of the PACU looking for attending blood.
The attending in question saw all this going down and had to hide in his office under his desk from the resident twice his size and 25 years his junior.
In the end. He wasn’t the director any more and the angry resident is a practicing Anesthesiologist.
Sometimes wanting to beat your attending into next week is justified, and not necessarily career ending. But I wouldn’t recommend it.

 

[Premed2295]

It’s probably a blessing that she’s being kicked out of at least suspended
Girl needs A LOT of mental health treatment before being allowed to make life or death decisions for patients. Even then depending on the diagnosis she may never be stable enough for this sort of career.
Its sad that it ended this way. But she probably should have addressed a mental health issue of this magnitude BEFORE starting medical school

 

[LebronManning]

Granted, there are a lot of details being intentionally left out. However, threats are not illegal. You must have the ability to carry out the threat for it to be a crime. For instance, "I'm going to kill you" while holding a knife within a distance to make use of said knife. Is a crime. If you held up the knife and said that, but there was a fence between you. There is no crime.

Not trying to nitpick, just trying to clear up common misconceptions.

This doesn't sound right. Surely it is illegal to call someone and tell them you are going to kill them even if you are several miles away. At the very least, it would be a harassment charge. Probably much worse.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

Sorry to jack your thread OP, but this is a question I’ve wanted to ask for a long while. Has anyone here suffered with anger issues? If so, how did you guys handle clinicals/residency? I wouldn’t say I have anger issues, I just don’t tolerate people being rude for no reason (I usually just have a smart mouthed response or I walk away from the situation).

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

Sorry to jack your thread OP, but this is a question I’ve wanted to ask for a long while. Has anyone here suffered with anger issues? If so, how did you guys handle clinicals/residency? I wouldn’t say I have anger issues, I just don’t tolerate people being rude for no reason (I usually just have a smart mouthed response or I walk away from the situation).

I've worked extensively as a waiter so you just learn to live with rude people. I try to take it personally and realize it is more of a reflection of how they are feeling about themselves/ their own life than about you.

 

[ndafife]

Sorry to jack your thread OP, but this is a question I’ve wanted to ask for a long while. Has anyone here suffered with anger issues? If so, how did you guys handle clinicals/residency? I wouldn’t say I have anger issues, I just don’t tolerate people being rude for no reason (I usually just have a smart mouthed response or I walk away from the situation).

Get counseling or learn to STFU and complain about it with friends later.

The right way is the way your attending in that moment wants it done. Not the way last week's attending likes it. If he wants everyone's creatinine value while presenting it's best just to say sorry you forgot the value but it was within normal limits, accept the lecture, and get it every time going forward

 

[vernhart]

Granted, there are a lot of details being intentionally left out. However, threats are not illegal. You must have the ability to carry out the threat for it to be a crime. For instance, "I'm going to kill you" while holding a knife within a distance to make use of said knife. Is a crime. If you held up the knife and said that, but there was a fence between you. There is no crime.

Not trying to nitpick, just trying to clear up common misconceptions.

This is incorrect. You are correct in stating the threat must be able to be carried through with. However, threat of future harm is a crime. The qualifier is that a reasonable person would believe the threat was intended to be carried out. I think a reasonable person would believe that someone holding up a knife to them and sincerely stating their intention to kill you, even with a fence between you, would intend to carry out the act in the future (when no such fence exists)

 

[Dave1980]

I and my friend are both M-IIs

My friend and I. Nothing of help to add.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

I’m the same way man. Unfortunately, the best course of action is to ignore and work to the end goal. Possibly try to “kill them with kindness” but suck it up and take the abuse with a smile is the best option.

You’re a small piece in a big machine and the reality is that you don’t really matter. Unfortunately.

Edit: just as an example. I had a resident yell at me and scream that I should never practice medicine, ever. Why? Because I said something to the effect of “Karma.” When a drunk driver ran over a kid crossing the street and he ran off the road and into a tree smashing his face on the wheel. I didn’t say deny him care. I just didn’t feel sympathy for a drunk that nearly killed a kid. I sucked it up and went on with my day. I still burns me that I walked away but at the end of the day, I’m going to be a md.

Sigh... I figured this would be the course of action lol. And that sounds exactly like a statement I would make. My wife thinks I am insensitive for saying it. Glad I’m not the only one lol.

I've worked extensively as a waiter so you just learn to live with rude people. I try to take it personally and realize it is more of a reflection of how they are feeling about themselves/ their own life than about you.

I never worked as a waiter, but I worked in retail for four years. I guess I have to go back to my “Yes ma’am, I am an idiot for not placing that order when you never specified what you wanted.”

Thank you for reminding me that sometimes they just have crappy days/lives. I’ve had a few bosses that had rough home lives and they would bring that to work.

Get counseling or learn to STFU and complain about it with friends later.

The right way is the way your attending in that moment wants it done. Not the way last week's attending likes it. If he wants everyone's creatinine value while presenting it's best just to say sorry you forgot the value but it was within normal limits, accept the lecture, and get it every time going forward

Second option it is lol. I’ll probably need a therapist after clinicals

 

[Merely]

True story...
A former residency director was an enormous egomaniac and jackass. He relentlessly tormented his residents, pimping them incessantly, belittling them, openly mocking them, etc. Generally making their lives unnecessarily miserable. One day he picked on the wrong 3rd year resident one too many times. The (large muscular) guy finished the case and came barreling out of the PACU looking for attending blood.
The attending in question saw all this going down and had to hide in his office under his desk from the resident twice his size and 25 years his junior.
In the end. He wasn’t the director any more and the angry resident is a practicing Anesthesiologist.
Sometimes wanting to beat your attending into next week is justified, and not necessarily career ending. But I wouldn’t recommend it.

I don’t understand your story. He attacked his residency director? His residency director was afraid of being attacked so he hid in his office? The director could have stood in front of the resident, allow him to knock him out, then proceed to enjoy destroying his life forever...

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

The director could have stood in front of the resident, allow him to knock him out, then proceed to enjoy destroying his life forever...

I mean, that's probably easier said than done. Nobody wants to get the s*** beaten out of them...

 

[cj_cregg]

Sorry to jack your thread OP, but this is a question I’ve wanted to ask for a long while. Has anyone here suffered with anger issues? If so, how did you guys handle clinicals/residency? I wouldn’t say I have anger issues, I just don’t tolerate people being rude for no reason (I usually just have a smart mouthed response or I walk away from the situation).

I think the biggest thing that helps me when I'm feeling like I need defend myself, etc is that whatever I say/do is not going to improve this person's opinion or behavior. They either (1) already created a negative impression of me that may or may not be justified, and me walking away, arguing, or responding with a smart comment is just going to make them feel like they were right all along, or (2) are just being negative because of their own issues, and it has nothing to do with my behavior. All arguing or walking away is going to do is escalate the situation and make you look worse.

"Okay, thanks for the feedback" with a neutral face/voice is a great response - you acknowledge that you hear what they're saying, without necessarily accepting their interpretation as accurate or fair. You have been professional and "receptive to feedback," which makes you look good. And if it's just that they're a grumpy person or having a bad day, you've de-escalated the situation and ended the conversation. And then afterwards you can change the subject or say "excuse me, I'm going to go do X" if you feel like you need to leave the situation.

And then obviously, also consider that they might be being rude for a reason or just giving you legitimate feedback in a not-so-kind tone. Especially as a med student, most people in the hospital will know a lot more than you, and it's usually valuable to hear their input and consider that there might be a grain of truth in what they're saying even if the delivery was less than ideal. And also the hospital is a stressful place, so remember that even if someone seems angry while talking to you, they may not be angry about you.

 

[IlDestriero]

I don’t understand your story. He attacked his residency director? His residency director was afraid of being attacked so he hid in his office? The director could have stood in front of the resident, allow him to knock him out, then proceed to enjoy destroying his life forever...

I guess the fear of being beaten by a young man that was legitimately twice his weight and raging from 3 years of abuse was greater than his desire to take the beating and end the guys medical career. Probably a wise choice. The fact that the administration didn’t hang the resident out to dry tells you a lot as well.

 

[DOFOSHO]

Granted, there are a lot of details being intentionally left out. However, threats are not illegal. You must have the ability to carry out the threat for it to be a crime. For instance, "I'm going to kill you" while holding a knife within a distance to make use of said knife. Is a crime. If you held up the knife and said that, but there was a fence between you. There is no crime.

Not trying to nitpick, just trying to clear up common misconceptions.

what about people going to jail for communicating threats over the phone?

 

[mrbreakfast]

This is incorrect. Please keep in mind the OP's version of events. He/She threatened the life of an attending. I'm simply saying that it isn't, by itself, criminal in nature.

Threatening somebody IS a crime.The person in question could be charged with menacing, likely aggravated. For menacing, there is no need to prove actual intent. Check out Ohio Revised Code 2903, though menacing, or something similar, is a crime in every state. The law is similar to the laws against stalking.

I believe aggravated menacing is a 1st degree misdemeanor in Ohio, which may lead to months in prison.

 

[Crayola227]

Just goes to show these things vary by state.

Without knowing any details, I'm not going to make assumptions that this student's career should end or that they are insane or something.

I've written numerous posts on steps to take to document, build a defense based on mental health, and find an attorney. I feel comfortable putting this out there, because your friend is only likely to be "let off the hook" if there really are extenuating circumstances, a decent case to be made, and all around the consensus is that they deserve another chance. But they will have to fight for it - that's also showing they might be worth another chance, if indeed they are.

I knew someone who made an off-hand joke about cheating that wasn't well taken. Yeah, it was a joke, they weren't a cheater or earnestly trying to cheat. Lapse in judgement? Absolutely. Point is that it can be easy to say something really stupid that is otherwise harmless, and have it land you in really hot water.

How well you're able to bounce back will depend on a good number of factors. Being well liked, honestly contrite, honestly and demonstrably unwell or other extenuating factors, and quite importantly, it being believable that something like this will never happen again, and that if it was the result of mental illness, that things being this bad in the future, is unlikely and being adequately controlled for.

Keep in mind that a student/resident/physician can be extremely unwell, to the point of being dangerous to themselves or others, and that it doesn't make them deemed to be permanently dangerous to practice. We don't throw away those people because we don't have to. Some people have an extreme brush with depression, suicidality, anger issues, substance use, psychosis, and they can come back and be safe again. It's impossible to predict who will become unwell and under what conditions, for everyone. So we have to identify those people and seek to treat them, not write them off to begin with. Sometimes this will mean they cannot safely continue in training, but not always.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

No one is exempt from this. We have had several surgeons fired on the spot and walked out by security immediately after they threatened someone in the OR. This is the adult world, and some mistakes are not something you can take back. And if the friend was actively in the throes of a mental illness, then it’s probably not a good idea for her to be in med school either.

what hospital has had several surgeons fired on the spot for threatening colleagues!? that can't be real.

 

[Crayola227]

oh but it is

 

[vernhart]

I answered a couple posts above. But we talking bomb threats now?! Let’s not move the goal posts too much. I’m addressing a specific crime, assault.

You literally moved the goal posts by saying you are addressing a specific crime=Assault. Uhhh...since when? It isn't murder, stealing, or any other number of random specific laws you want to pretend we are arguing about, but that doesn't make it legal as you stated previously. The debate was whether or not it was illegal in any fashion and you are incorrect. The general answer is yes if the criteria meet what I stated in previous post (states vary on laws but all that I know have some sort of statute on the matter). The law in my state would be called "intimidation." See this is my problem with our field as a whole: self-assured people who have no basis for their confidence. I have no doubt you are intelligent, but intelligence does not give you knowledge on a topic you have clearly not studied (I have, and I'm sure there are others with a law background lurking on here clearly not named Crayola227 because for some reason they liked your ability to post nonsense).

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

what hospital has had several surgeons fired on the spot for threatening colleagues!? that can't be real.

Mine.
Hundred percent real. It didn’t happen at the same time, but over the course of a few years. I witnessed one of those incidents. Escorted out by security. Our people don’t mess around.

 

[vernhart]

Read OP's post. "Threatened an attending when she got angry." This is not assault nor is it menacing.

Duuuuuude. No one said its assault. That is a specific statute. You conjured that up. You initially said it wasn't illegal (nonspecific), which I refuted.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

what hospital has had several surgeons fired on the spot for threatening colleagues!? that can't be real.

Why is it hard to understand that you can't act like a jacka$$ to your colleagues? Let me put it this way. It doesn't matter if you're the #1 plastic surgeon in the world. If you act like a tool in the OR and piss us the Anesthesiologist, your fellow surgeons, your fellow physician in preop/postop workups, and other physicians in ancillary roles, you're as good as gone. It's that simple.

Being the #1 surgeon in the the whole hospital should bring plenty of free cheese to your private life enabling you to keep your big mouth and ego in check. But, a lot of medical students will learn the hard way. As a medical student, I already see see stupid stuff being done by residents on occasions.

Fact: I have seen private emails written by some physician acting like a little brat, and being told to stfu in a physician to physician email exchange.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Seriously, NO. This is not a crime. Please read the statutes.

I'm not going to continue to argue with this about you, but for the record, we are talking specifically about Ohio, where this incident took place and where I personally live. Threatening someone is against the law in Ohio. Here's the statue for your reference: Lawriter - ORC - 2903.22 Menacing..

We can debate whether or not this should be a law everywhere, and I have no idea what the laws are like in Florida or New York. At this point I think it's pretty established that the person in the story is in trouble, so I'm just providing this info in case people didn't realize the specific laws where they live. Hopefully none of us are ever in this situation.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Mine.
Hundred percent real. It didn’t happen at the same time, but over the course of a few years. I witnessed one of those incidents. Escorted out by security. Our people don’t mess around.

I believe you, but I'm curious what happened to the case itself. Did someone else have to scrub to finish/close?

 

[Crayola227]

I'm not a lawyer but I seriously doubt there would be much legal consequences for like 90% of comments like "I'm going to kill you!" in isolation of a lot of other things.

I'm thinking of a number of stand up comedy routines. "I'm going to kill my husband when he gets home!"

Free speech creates challenges for at what point do you determine that what has been said is a crime.

All the time on SDN people like to allege all the legal consequences they expect to come forth from something. Not really how the world works a lot of the time. You need police to enforce the law and you need a DA to then prosecute the law, even assuming the law applies in a situation, and then you need all kinds of evidence. Things get even more difficult where there is a lack of physical evidence, nor a pattern of behavior, nor more than one eyewitness. Many points where this doesn't even get off the ground, again even assuming it fits what the law outlines as a crime.

I just ran this by my friend who is a local prosecutor in the DA's office, and he thinks it's a total joke and it would get zero play in court.

I'm not an attorney but I've worked with a fair number of them over the years. If someone can tell me within earshot of other people that they're going to rape me, and nothing happens besides a restraining order, so not even a crime, I highly doubt an offhand comment here is going to gain much more by way of legal repercussions, if anything.

 

[vernhart]

I'm not a lawyer but I seriously doubt there would be much legal consequences for like 90% of comments like "I'm going to kill you!" in isolation of a lot of other things.

I'm thinking of a number of stand up comedy routines. "I'm going to kill my husband when he gets home!"

Free speech creates challenges for at what point do you determine that what has been said is a crime.

All the time on SDN people like to allege all the legal consequences they expect to come forth from something. Not really how the world works a lot of the time. You need police to enforce the law and you need a DA to then prosecute the law, even assuming the law applies in a situation, and then you need all kinds of evidence. Things get even more difficult where there is a lack of physical evidence, nor a pattern of behavior, nor more than one eyewitness. Many points where this doesn't even get off the ground, again even assuming it fits what the law outlines as a crime.

I just ran this by my friend who is a local prosecutor in the DA's office, and he thinks it's a total joke and it would get zero play in court.

I'm not an attorney but I've worked with a fair number of them over the years. If someone can tell me within earshot of other people that they're going to rape me, and nothing happens besides a restraining order, so not even a crime, I highly doubt an offhand comment here is going to gain much more by way of legal repercussions, if anything.

I addressed that when I stated "The qualifier is that a reasonable person would believe the threat was intended to be carried out." I made no claim of it actually being enforced, just that it was indeed a crime. I agree that most prosecutors would not pursue it (depending on exact circumstances which we do not have knowledge of).

EDIT: Read the last bit after posting. Very sorry that happened to you. Also shouldn't have made a slight at you for liking their post, more irked at the people who are steadfast in their spread of misinformation bc it deceives those who don't know any better and people can't have knowledge of everything enough to appraise all claims

 

[libertyyne]

OP, look at the student handbook it should outline student suspension and dismissal proceedings. Get a lawyer and pray to what ever diety you believe in that they take pity on your friend. Most likely outcome would be suspension followed by investigation, and subsequent dismissal. It is possible that the school would ask the Attending to actually file a police report to solidify dismissal proceedings, but no one actually knows what their process requires besides their handbook and discipline committee.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

this thread just needs to be done

 

[libertyyne]

this thread just needs to be done

only on SDN do you find medical students arguing about the legal ramifications and statues of all 50 states surrounding verbal threats not related to the actual question that OP made. Who cares if it is legal or illegal, or any permutation within . The question was surrounding OPs standing with the school.

 

[vernhart]

Since you messed up the previous quote, I'll reply here. Regardless, whatever insults you hurled in that last comment. Just know that my sarcastic reply was just that, sarcastic. Sarcastic because you're just not getting it.

STANDARD JURY INSTRUCTION FOR YOUR INTIMIDATION CRIME.
To convict the Defendant of the charge of intimidation, the State must prove the following elements:

1. That the Defendant communicated to _________________________ a threat to [inflict physical harm on (him/her/any other person)] [subject any person to physical confinement or restraint] [commit any felony];

AND

2. That the Defendant was without legal authority to perform the threatened act;

AND

3. That the circumstances reasonably tended to produce a fear that the threat would be carried out;

AND

4. That the Defendant had the purpose to cause the alleged victim to [perform] [omit the performance of] any act.

So, duuuude... This is more akin to witness intimidation, not AT ALL what the op referred to. You can stretch it in your mind however you like but it is not intimidation. The same law, with the same language is referred to in other states as "Witness Intimidation."

So, to be clear, unless the op caused the attending to ACTUALLY think the op was going to kill them, it is not intimidation. Additionally, if the OP did not ask the attending to perform this action or not perform whatever action, it is not intimidation. So please understand that you don't know what you are actually talking about. Not trying to be mean, just being honest. Oh, and I think you're smart too, you just don't have a great grasp on what you are talking about.

Laws in different states can cover different material but with the same title. After finding out it is in Ohio (I did not know before what state and spoke generally, gave you one such state like mine that names it "intimidation"), it seems it would fall under "menacing." This might be worse than the premeds who argue with attendings...
Lawriter - ORC - 2903.22 Menacing.
2903.22 Menacing.


(A) No person shall knowingly cause another to believe that the offender will cause physical harm to the person or property of the other person, the other person's unborn, or a member of the other person's immediate family. In addition to any other basis for the other person's belief that the offender will cause physical harm to the person or property of the other person, the other person's unborn, or a member of the other person's immediate family, the other person's belief may be based on words or conduct of the offender that are directed at or identify a corporation, association, or other organization that employs the other person or to which the other person belongs.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of menacing. Except as otherwise provided in this division, menacing is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If the victim of the offense is an officer or employee of a public children services agency or a private child placing agency and the offense relates to the officer's or employee's performance or anticipated performance of official responsibilities or duties, menacing is a misdemeanor of the first degree or, if the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to an offense of violence, the victim of that prior offense was an officer or employee of a public children services agency or private child placing agency, and that prior offense related to the officer's or employee's performance or anticipated performance of official responsibilities or duties, a felony of the fourth degree.

(C) As used in this section, "organization" includes an entity that is a governmental employer.

 

[vernhart]

only on SDN do you find medical students arguing about the legal ramifications and statues of all 50 states surrounding verbal threats not related to the actual question that OP made. Who cares if it is legal or illegal, or any permutation within . The question was surrounding OPs standing with the school.

Honestly, I'm part of the problem lol. I was trying to pass on some factual knowledge and got sucked into a pissing match. It is truly one of my greatest faults. I don't know when to walk away...

You are both right. Sorry for the distraction everyone.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I believe you, but I'm curious what happened to the case itself. Did someone else have to scrub to finish/close?

They waited outside the OR until the surgeon was done with the case.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

I think the biggest thing that helps me when I'm feeling like I need defend myself, etc is that whatever I say/do is not going to improve this person's opinion or behavior. They either (1) already created a negative impression of me that may or may not be justified, and me walking away, arguing, or responding with a smart comment is just going to make them feel like they were right all along, or (2) are just being negative because of their own issues, and it has nothing to do with my behavior. All arguing or walking away is going to do is escalate the situation and make you look worse.

"Okay, thanks for the feedback" with a neutral face/voice is a great response - you acknowledge that you hear what they're saying, without necessarily accepting their interpretation as accurate or fair. You have been professional and "receptive to feedback," which makes you look good. And if it's just that they're a grumpy person or having a bad day, you've de-escalated the situation and ended the conversation. And then afterwards you can change the subject or say "excuse me, I'm going to go do X" if you feel like you need to leave the situation.

And then obviously, also consider that they might be being rude for a reason or just giving you legitimate feedback in a not-so-kind tone. Especially as a med student, most people in the hospital will know a lot more than you, and it's usually valuable to hear their input and consider that there might be a grain of truth in what they're saying even if the delivery was less than ideal. And also the hospital is a stressful place, so remember that even if someone seems angry while talking to you, they may not be angry about you.

This was some solid advice. It sounds like something my grandpa would tell me lol. I like the “Okay, thanks for the feedback.” Because I don’t want to be a pushover and I don’t want to be a butthole either.

Yeah, I’m already preparing myself to be the lowest of the low in the hospital and I am completely fine with that. I guess it will just take some getting used to. Thank you for the words of advice!