My honest opinion on UW and their dishonest app. process.

[247985]

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Hi Fellow Pre-Dent Students!

I just found out about this forum today! I wish I knew of this place long ago before applying to dental schools, I could've saved tons of $. I don't know what more to say. I applied to 12 schools for the cycle, received 5 interviews and 4 acceptances. I am very blessed.

My final choices were between UOP vs UW. I am a Washington resident so I basically know the ins and outs of UWSOD due to networking. I was determined to attend UW UNTIL I re-evaluated and discovered information I wish I never would've found out.

For instance, during my interview I was asked about my financial status and how I would support myself throughout dental school. My father is a dentist so they also asked if he would be supporting me financially. Then they went on how UW started accepting students by looking at the "whole-package" rather than just GPA and DAT compared to 5 years ago. In completion, they commented how accepting low-income students became problematic since some of them ended up dropping out because of the expense of dental school. I didn't think too much of it during the interview but now thinking back, I wonder what they truly meant. I feel like UW interviewers were putting down and bad mouthing low-income students...I now feel very uneasy knowing how unprofessional they really are. Much as I like the school and their programs, it is very important to me that everybody gets treated equally. Maybe I am thinking too much?

After my interview, I talked to other pre-dental students at UW about everything. I actually had the chance to sit and talk with those who got into UWSOD for this cycle! Now here is the part I could not comprehend and hope some of you guys can tell me what has happened. This 'person' (let's call her/him Tooth) who got accepted this cycle had a GPA of 2.8. I have NO problem with people with lower GPA getting into dental schools as long as they can contribute diversity and bring changes into the dentistry field. Don't get me wrong, Tooth seemed cool. Had 20-21's on DAT and had good amount of dental experience. Then he/she continued on how his/her parent is a dentist and how that "boosted" the chance of getting accepted. I didn't get what that meant exactly but I am gonna assume here ... possibly donation? Anyways, Tooth is Caucasion if some of you guys are wondering. My question to you guys is, how the HELL is THAT contributing to diversity? In fact, I recently found out that UWSOD does this every year where they say along the lines of "OUR school looks at the overall package and gives fair chance to the under-deserved student bodies" but in reality, this is 100% FALSE. I knew PLENTY of fellow pre-dent students who applied this cycle with very very similar stats as Tooth. They truly had disadvantaged lifestyles, went through a lot, and 110% dedicated of serving the under-served. I cannot stop but to think if their chances were replaced directly over by someone like Tooth, where his/her's background is much more fancier. After researching intenstly, my conclusion is that UWSOD DOES NOT look at the "overall package", period. I am sorry but being Caucasion and your parent being a dentist donating money to the school doesn't sound like an under-represented studnt to me.

To some of you guys who don't believe me, go to UW during clinic hours and take a GOOD look at the student population. Almost all of them have that "typical" look of a rich kid, most of their parents are fairly well off and no matter what anybody says their backgrounds are really NOT that different from one another. Not much diversity WHAT SO EVER at this school. Even my friends who currently attend this school agree with me.

I probably sound like a whiny person but I was sick of only hearing the positive side of UWSOD. I know there are both good and bad sides of each school. However I thought it would be beneficial to those who are concerned about equality, fair treatment, and honesty in a school. I wanted to vent this to someone for the longest time. Since everybody knows each other around here, I never felt comfortable sharing my views in fear of that being heard by the Admissions.

I want to hear from other people's point of views. Am I thinking too much? Please don't yell at me. LOL

 

[DrReo]

Money talks.

 

[rewJW]

Now, you got in, so it kind of doesn't matter and you must have held your composure well during your interview. But did it occur to you that perhaps they brought up the whole "it's bad for us to accept students without the finances to pay for d-school" thing to see how you responded to it in the interview? Perhaps that's not how the school really feels. Maybe they just wanted to see if you would bash poor kids or if your response was about how all students should have an equal shot regardless of how much their parents make, etc.

I don't know much about UW because I didn't apply there, but it kind of seems to me like the interviewer said this to see how you'd respond. What was your response, btw? Were you in agreement or did you disagree with your interviewer?

I'm just sayin'. My parents are lower-middle class. I'm white. I have no dentists in my family and I'll be financially supporting myself entirely through d-school, just as I did through undergrad. Am I a little worried that I won't be able to get enough money to get through? Yes, of course. But I know that schools are pretty good at ensuring you obtain as many loans as needed to get yourself through. They will put a lot of effort into helping you do this, because they want you to stay all 4 years because, ultimately, they want your money. So I'll get through.

Also, as for supporting disadvantaged patients ... the dental student who has a parent that is a dentist will be more likely to do more for disadvantaged patients sooner than the dental student who him/herself came from a disadvantaged life and has no dental connections. The reasoning is simple: the kid of a dentist will likely inherit a practice and equipment and not need to spend money on it and can instead spend that money that would otherwise be put aside to build up a practice on providing free or reduced dental care for disadvantaged patients. The student who first needs to build a practice up from the ground is going to be less likely to give away their services, no matter how much they may want to help disadvantaged patients, because they're going to be in debt not only from d-school but also from buying everything to start up their practice.

 

[Simiam]

I am a Washington resident, who interviewed at UW pre dec 1. Half my family are dentists. I have good scores, and didn't get accepted... kind of throws off that logic huh?

 

[cl24uw06]

To me it seems like there has been a lot of jumping to conclusions here, I can't imagine your interviewers' said this and if they did there is no way they were trying to hint around that they discriminate against low-income applicants. First of all I can't think of a single student in the school that is receiving assistance from their parents to help pay for school. In fact most of the students that I know well enough to know about their upbringing are from low-income households. One of my best friends at school didn't even have electricity until he went to college. Also there is no way that being low-income would cause you to need to drop-out; in-fact the opposite is true. The less income that you and your parents have the better loans you can get and the more scholarships that you will receive. I actually get frustrated sometimes with how un-merit oriented UW is; the only incoming scholarship is given to an underserved minority (4-year full ride) and after that each year there are virtually no merit based scholarships for dental students, only need based. I would like to know what type of intensive research the OP has done to draw these conclusions. That is pretty amazing that they were able to look in our clinic and quickly determine that everyone was a typical rich kid, and how did they get to look at our parents tax returns to see that we all have fairly well off parents. It is absolutely true that over the last 5 years UW has become less numbers oriented and been more concerned with the overall life experiences of the applicant, how else to you explain our average GPA dropping from near top in the nation (~3.7) to where it is now near the bottom of the nation (3.4-3.5) while that whole time greatly increasing the ethnic and social diversity in the class. Another point I would like to mention is that just because someone is from a disadvantaged background doesn't mean that with a sub-par GPA they should should get in. It is extremely rare that anyone with a 2.8 GPA is going to get into dental school; I am sure that if you were able to see "Tooth's" application there would be more to the reason for his admittance than a donation. Also just because you are caucasian doesn't mean that you can't contribute to the diversity of the class, diversity is more than just skin color.

 

[cybermech]

I get the feeling that UW thinks of themselves as a "Harvard on the west coast." They either accept people with stratospherically high stats, or people with insanely unique characteristics and experiences, or both, but usually, not anywhere in the middle.

 

[doc3232]

I doubt this only applies to UW. Why would a school accept someone who will likely drop out before graduation? I don't think anyone would suggest that they would do that during the interview or in the PS though.

 

[Vicviper]

As others said before, there's always the chance that Tooth had some amazing things on his application, he may have spent the last 5 years of his life volunteering every day at a free dental clinic, or have some way of showing his dedication. Also, if someone gets above 20's on the DAT's, I think Adcoms can see that a low GPA is not always a true reading of their potential.

However, on the other hand, I was talking with my dad yesterday about when he was in med school over 30 years ago, and he said one of the guys in his class was more or less admitting that his family had given a member of an Adcom at an elite east coast school $10k under the table and guaranteed him a residency spot.

So it's not like that doesn't happen either - crazy world we live in.

Also, I was under the assumption that nearly all dental students take loans out to pay for all of dental school, I know I don't want to put that burden on my parents. So, if nearly everyone is taking loans anyway, and the dental schools are getting their money one way or another, what does prior finances have to do with anything as far as the schools are concerned?

 

[dentstd]

Hi Fellow Pre-Dent Students!

I just found out about this forum today! I wish I knew of this place long ago before applying to dental schools, I could've saved tons of $. I don't know what more to say. I applied to 12 schools for the cycle, received 5 interviews and 4 acceptances. I am very blessed.

My final choices were between UOP vs UW. I am a Washington resident so I basically know the ins and outs of UWSOD due to networking. I was determined to attend UW UNTIL I re-evaluated and discovered information I wish I never would've found out.

For instance, during my interview I was asked about my financial status and how I would support myself throughout dental school. My father is a dentist so they also asked if he would be supporting me financially. Then they went on how UW started accepting students by looking at the "whole-package" rather than just GPA and DAT compared to 5 years ago. In completion, they commented how accepting low-income students became problematic since some of them ended up dropping out because of the expense of dental school. I didn't think too much of it during the interview but now thinking back, I wonder what they truly meant. I feel like UW interviewers were putting down and bad mouthing low-income students...I now feel very uneasy knowing how unprofessional they really are. Much as I like the school and their programs, it is very important to me that everybody gets treated equally. Maybe I am thinking too much?

After my interview, I talked to other pre-dental students at UW about everything. I actually had the chance to sit and talk with those who got into UWSOD for this cycle! Now here is the part I could not comprehend and hope some of you guys can tell me what has happened. This 'person' (let's call her/him Tooth) who got accepted this cycle had a GPA of 2.8. I have NO problem with people with lower GPA getting into dental schools as long as they can contribute diversity and bring changes into the dentistry field. Don't get me wrong, Tooth seemed cool. Had 20-21's on DAT and had good amount of dental experience. Then he/she continued on how his/her parent is a dentist and how that "boosted" the chance of getting accepted. I didn't get what that meant exactly but I am gonna assume here ... possibly donation? Anyways, Tooth is Caucasion if some of you guys are wondering. My question to you guys is, how the HELL is THAT contributing to diversity? In fact, I recently found out that UWSOD does this every year where they say along the lines of "OUR school looks at the overall package and gives fair chance to the under-deserved student bodies" but in reality, this is 100% FALSE. I knew PLENTY of fellow pre-dent students who applied this cycle with very very similar stats as Tooth. They truly had disadvantaged lifestyles, went through a lot, and 110% dedicated of serving the under-served. I cannot stop but to think if their chances were replaced directly over by someone like Tooth, where his/her's background is much more fancier. After researching intenstly, my conclusion is that UWSOD DOES NOT look at the "overall package", period. I am sorry but being Caucasion and your parent being a dentist donating money to the school doesn't sound like an under-represented studnt to me.

To some of you guys who don't believe me, go to UW during clinic hours and take a GOOD look at the student population. Almost all of them have that "typical" look of a rich kid, most of their parents are fairly well off and no matter what anybody says their backgrounds are really NOT that different from one another. Not much diversity WHAT SO EVER at this school. Even my friends who currently attend this school agree with me.

I probably sound like a whiny person but I was sick of only hearing the positive side of UWSOD. I know there are both good and bad sides of each school. However I thought it would be beneficial to those who are concerned about equality, fair treatment, and honesty in a school. I wanted to vent this to someone for the longest time. Since everybody knows each other around here, I never felt comfortable sharing my views in fear of that being heard by the Admissions.

I want to hear from other people's point of views. Am I thinking too much? Please don't yell at me. LOL

You went too far with your conclusions. Your definition of "over-all package" may not coincide with UW's.

When did people ever said anything about donations? The interviewer didn't even know the interviewee or his family, so I doubt that dentist dad had a history of donating to the school. Don't be so quick in filling in the blanks with cynicism.

Attrition's a major problem in dentistry. The cost of education's (from an administration standpoint) already skyhigh. Having students drop out puts the institution at a major loss. UW has a history of underprivileged students dropping out, so they have to do what they have to do. Otherwise, they'll cease to exist. It'd be a different story if those students didn't drop out. If they decided to not accept low-income students based on arbitrary bias, then that's a different situation. History affects how we do things in the present.

Is it really a stretch that the "whole packages" come from backgrounds that can afford more resources?

 

[247985]

I didn't expect to get so many responses in such short period of time! Like I've said I am just letting the public know of the "other" side of UW, don't be so angry, okay? My parent graduated from UW, so did my partner, and I have lots of friends who are currently attending UW. I also know some of the "inside people" pretty well so my opinions are based on years of observation and experiences.

Quick to jump to conclusion? Maybe you are right and maybe you aren't but the point is it is MY conclusion, so let it be. I am sure I won't agree with some of your conclusions in life.

You doubt the question was asked during the interview? Well, were you THERE with me in the interview room? If not, how do you doubt? Let me tell you something that's kinda interesting. My friend's friend who's parent is well-off professional, was ALSO asked the SAME question during his/her interview. Sure, some of you can argue and say I was being tested to see how I would answer the question. But I would say you are just being naive about it. At WHAT CAUSE can you put down a group of people for whatever reason? And even if they did have a valid reason for it, very unacceptable, especially at times when you are suppose to show the positive sides of the school and encourage applicants to choose their school, if accepted amongst others. Or am I missing something here? If yes, please share your knowledge.

Yes, I do know that UW has a history of under-represented students dropping out due to tuition costs and etc. Very good point you pointed out sir, because since they have a history of such, what have they done to further decrease the number of the drop out? Yes, I am also aware that UW has 4-year scholarships and apparently it's very very limited and a lot of people don't even know it exists.

About the "Tooth" person that got accepted - perhaps you guys are right, he might've had outstanding activities that he did not share with me. But when I asked of such question, Tooth replied back stating "Oh, I didn't really do anything else except for working at my dad's office off and on". I am not putting him/her down, I just can't grasp the fact that if Tooth really didn't do much else other than working at dad's office, how did that person get accepted over other better applicants? And yes, I am not too sure if dad donated $ but surely sounded like it from the way he/she was talking. Oh another thing - did I mention that UW is struggling with money right now? I heard they are going to cut 20-25% of faculty members so donation surely does sound good at the time being.

Oh yah, of course skin color does not determine diversity! I am just saying, according to my observations and connection, not much diversity exists, period. Each year, maybe about 2-4 students with truly disadvantaged backgrounds do get accepted (which is better than other schools) but mostly, UW classes consist of similar income-status, background history...same old thing. I remember working on UW's secondary and how we have to write about diversity contribution to the dental field...ehhh...let's not talk about this anymore.

To someone who said "students with dentist parents have higher chance of contributing to the disadvantaged group"....are you serious? You gotta be kidding right? Now, I am NOT saying people with parents that are dentists do not do such volunteering work, heck I've been doing it for past 6 years. But once again, according to my observation, fellow students I've volunteered with mostly came from disadvantaged backgrounds themselves OR some were doing it to add something nice to AADSAS application.

Whew! Didn't mean to be so long but wanted to cover most of the comments or questions. Come on people, don't be so harsh on me! I was just sick of keeping everything in...plus, I am not here to present lies or false things. Just my honest opinion. 👍

 

[makers]

Whew! Didn't mean to be so long but wanted to cover most of the comments or questions. Come on people, don't be so harsh on me! I was just sick of keeping everything in...plus, I am not here to present lies or false things. Just my honest opinion. 👍

Relax-- no one's being that harsh here, particularly considering the inflammatory tone of the title you gave the thread. I'm interested in what you have to say and don't want to misunderstand you. Could you please state in a simple, concise sentence exactly what UW did or said that was dishonest?

 

[asdfg]

Good tooth, you are an idiot! Stop whining about not getting in.

 

[247985]

Makers - I believe I was being calm. I apologize if I sounded as if I needed to "relax". I am basically done venting and believe answer to your question was mentioned through-out the essay that I wrote. Rather than repeating myself, could you please state what part of the opinion did not make sense in a concise, clear, and in one sentence? I will see what I can do. 👍

Asdfg - Thank you for calling me an idiot. In fact, I kinda do feel like an idiot right now for even responding back to your post. But thank you. And I apologize if I sounded whiny. Oh and you can think whatever you want regards to my acceptance b/c that's really not important here anyways. 👍

 

[blissy07]

Good Tooth: I read your comments...

This 'person' (let's call her/him Tooth) who got accepted this cycle had a GPA of 2.8. I have NO problem with people with lower GPA getting into dental schools as long as they can contribute diversity and bring changes into the dentistry field. Don't get me wrong, Tooth seemed cool. Had 20-21's on DAT and had good amount of dental experience. Then he/she continued on how his/her parent is a dentist and how that "boosted" the chance of getting accepted.

You never know the exactly why you get accepted....Tooth is simply guessing. He may have thought it helped...who knows. You cannot take his statements as pure fact. Some people get in whose families are dentists...some of the same people are rejected. Tooth can sit there and guess about why he was accepted, it does not make it truth.

In fact, I recently found out that UWSOD does this every year where they say along the lines of "OUR school looks at the overall package and gives fair chance to the under-deserved student bodies" but in reality, this is 100% FALSE. I knew PLENTY of fellow pre-dent students who applied this cycle with very very similar stats as Tooth. They truly had disadvantaged lifestyles, went through a lot, and 110% dedicated of serving the under-served. I cannot stop but to think if their chances were replaced directly over by someone like Tooth, where his/her's background is much more fancier. After researching intenstly, my conclusion is that UWSOD DOES NOT look at the "overall package", period. I am sorry but being Caucasion and your parent being a dentist donating money to the school doesn't sound like an under-represented studnt to me.

It is a WILD stretch to guess that simply because he has low statistics and a parent who is a dentist that he bribed his way in.

To some of you guys who don't believe me, go to UW during clinic hours and take a GOOD look at the student population. Almost all of them have that "typical" look of a rich kid, most of their parents are fairly well off and no matter what anybody says their backgrounds are really NOT that different from one another. Not much diversity WHAT SO EVER at this school.

I've volunteered in several clinics at UWSOD and have no idea what you are talking about. Are you seriously suggesting that you can determine someone's financial background by observing them in a dental clinic? Students are required to wear either scrubs or attire that is fitting of a dental professional. So if it means khakis, loafers, and a button down shirt, so be it. Dental school is a professional school, after all.

My friend's friend who's parent is well-off professional, was ALSO asked the SAME question during his/her interview.

My parents are also well-to-do professionals...this fact was NEVER mentioned at my interview. And this is the danger of knowing only half the story...you'd think that with parents like mine, I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth. The exact opposite is true. Parents immigrated here when I was born, and worked their way up from the very bottom. I was a Headstart kid. You seem to be quick to jump to conclusions (every UW dental student is rich, Tooth's dad donated $$). You cannot always do that, even if you think you know someone's story.

At WHAT CAUSE can you put down a group of people for whatever reason? And even if they did have a valid reason for it, very unacceptable, especially at times when you are suppose to show the positive sides of the school and encourage applicants to choose their school, if accepted amongst others. Or am I missing something here? If yes, please share your knowledge.

Dentistry is not all positive. It's important to know the good and the bad. If low-income students truly DO have a higher rate of attrition (I don't know the statistics, so I'm just going to go with what you've said here...), then is mentioning it really a crime? I do not think that acknowledging a problem is the same as condoning it. In the dental public health class I was able to take at UW, they said over and over (and over!) again that patients with low socio-economic status statistically are less likely to show up for appointments, and are less likely to follow through with treatment plans. Does this mean UW is saying we should not treat those patients?? Absolutely not! Sometimes alternative methods are needed in treating high-risk patient groups. Recognizing a problem is the first step to solving it.

Yes, I do know that UW has a history of under-represented students dropping out due to tuition costs and etc. Very good point you pointed out sir, because since they have a history of such, what have they done to further decrease the number of the drop out?

The "whole-package" deal IS the plan that UW has developed to increase the number of students from different backgrounds. Someone from an advantaged background IS more likely to have academic success. A kid with a low-income background may not have been able to afford tutoring, DAT classes, and may have had to work while putting themselves through school, which often translates into lower grades. By not solely going by the numbers, UW gives these applicants a chance.

In addition, in the past several years, only 2 students have dropped out of UWSOD. One was for personal family issues, the other I don't know. Not that many people drop out of UW anyways.

About the "Tooth" person that got accepted - perhaps you guys are right, he might've had outstanding activities that he did not share with me. But when I asked of such question, Tooth replied back stating "Oh, I didn't really do anything else except for working at my dad's office off and on". I am not putting him/her down, I just can't grasp the fact that if Tooth really didn't do much else other than working at dad's office, how did that person get accepted over other better applicants? And yes, I am not too sure if dad donated $ but surely sounded like it from the way he/she was talking. Oh another thing - did I mention that UW is struggling with money right now? I heard they are going to cut 20-25% of faculty members so donation surely does sound good at the time being.

Consider the fact that many people downplay their stats, I would not take what he says as absolute truth. I don't know "Tooth" nor his story, but I'm simply offering an alternative and reminding you that you have no actual proof to your claims.

Also, it is highly unlikely that UW will be cutting 25% of faculty. While the statistics concerning UW's budget have yet to be finalized, the people I have spoken to have suggested that faculty cuts will not be that significant. We will most likely be facing pretty dramatic tuition increases instead =( But, like I said, the details remain to be seen.


UW chooses carefully. They select students whom they believe will finishthe program, and graduate to become good, competent dentists with sense of social responsibility. A student's advantaged/disadvantaged background is merely icing on the cake. It alone will not make you, nor break you when it comes to admissions. I do not think that it is fair for you to be able to state that UW has an unfair admissions policy when 1) you don't know "tooth's" entire story nor 2) intimate details concerning the life histories and finances of the members of UWSOD's student body.

 

[dentstd]

Every public institution I know of is experiencing budget cuts. We're in a recession.

Some states have outlawed affirmative action and things resembling it. Either Washington's one of them, or they agree with it. URM's have significantly lower average scores. That can't be denied.

It's not a school's duty to prevent attrition due to cost of the school. A student can decide before attending that school whether or not to attend. UW can't help it when students decide part way thru school that they want to leave. URM's already have lower scores. Should we reward non-excellence with a scholarship too? (That's already the case at most schools.)

 

[makers]

Makers - I believe I was being calm. I apologize if I sounded as if I needed to "relax". I am basically done venting and believe answer to your question was mentioned through-out the essay that I wrote. Rather than repeating myself, could you please state what part of the opinion did not make sense in a concise, clear, and in one sentence? I will see what I can do. 👍

What part of the application process was not honest- the application, secondary application, the interview? In what way was it dishonest? That the 2ndary app stressed diversity... while there are a lot of white students at the school? ... while you think the students that attend UW look rich? ... while your interviewer appeared to be biased against poor applicants? Or are you saying that you believe UW sells seats to dentist parents whose children have low stats? I understand that you were venting, so there was a "rambling" quality to the post, but there were a lot of ideas sprinkled throughout and it was difficult to determine what was intended to be relevant. I asked you to clarify what you meant because it's a fairly serious thing to accuse a school of unethical behavior. Vague insinuations do nothing to remedy a problem and only fuel childish gossip. If I believed a school had done something dishonest, and I chose to announce it on a public forum in order to warn others, I would state it in no uncertain terms, something along the lines of:

School Blank is dishonest because their application says X, while I was told Y at my interview.

or School Blank is dishonest because they (insert specific activity here), which is unethical.

If you really believe that they have done something dishonest, I hope that you've talked with the school about it. That way the problem can be addressed.

 

[armorshell]

Closed per OP request