My husband and my rank list

[BerlinNeuro]

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Well, I'm all done with interviews and my husband and I are trying to make "our" rank list. Fortunately, we both agree about my number one program. I'm doing psychiatry, which is an "easier" match but this is a reasonably competitive program. I expect I have a good chance to match, but there are certainly no guarantees. This makes the next couple of programs on the list pretty important and also where the trouble starts.

My husband's number 2 is in a location with great job opportunities for him, but it's a program I would definitely put much, much lower on the list. Honestly, it's a very well-rounded, solid program (also very competitive), but I don't feel I would be very happy there for various reasons based on the program itself and the location. 🙁

The thing is - I feel morally obliged to put his number 2 as the final number 2 on the list since I'm making him move for the second time in 2.5 years due to my school/career, but I can't help but pray that I won't end up at that program. I would be so much happier at my own number 2 or 3. I'm nervous about it already and match day is 2 months away.

I guess I just wanted to see what other people would do in my situation. Should I beg and plead to rearrange the list or should I just graciously accept that I have to make my husband happy and accept the fact I could very well end up at a program I don't really prefer???

 

[howelljolly]

nevermind.... I dont know

 

[MrBurns10]

I would make your list how you want it. Your residency is another four(?) years...you have the rest of your life to let your husband live in the location he wants. If you don't think you'll be happy at this program or at that location, then there's nothing more to discuss. Compromising with someone doesn't mean compromising your (or his) happiness.


OR...You could just sabotage your chances at that program and still rank it #2. A little well-placed email to the PD mentioning (good news!) you've been acquitted of your felony charges due to procedural inconsistencies would work just fine..."Oh honey, I don't understand what could have happened...I thought I was a shoo-in. I guess you'll have to settle for this other program."

 

[ShyRem]

I think you should sit down and discuss this with your husband so you can come up with a list you both love.

 

[JPmamd09]

I know where you're coming from. My husband moved with me to our current state so I could attend med school here. When we arrived, he had nothing - no job, no connections, nothing. Now, he's finishing up law school and has two amazing job offers (one short term - a year, and one long term) and has really networked his butt off. And now it's time for residency and I am potentially asking him to leave it all again.

My advice would be to sit down and be honest with him, as someone else previously said. Be totally honest too. Remind him that you recognize his sacrifices in the past and are really grateful for that - that was something my husband needed to hear. You shouldn't put a program you really hate too high, but you definitely need to take into account what he needs too. When you're away on call overnight or have long days, he's going to need to be in a job or in a city in which he can be happy. Try to have an open, honest conversation about the predicament and see if you guys can find some kind of compromise maybe. I don't know if this is helpful, but I wish you the best of luck.

 

[trophyhusband]

Well, I'm all done with interviews and my husband and I are trying to make "our" rank list. Fortunately, we both agree about my number one program. I'm doing psychiatry, which is an "easier" match but this is a reasonably competitive program. I expect I have a good chance to match, but there are certainly no guarantees. This makes the next couple of programs on the list pretty important and also where the trouble starts.

My husband's number 2 is in a location with great job opportunities for him, but it's a program I would definitely put much, much lower on the list. Honestly, it's a very well-rounded, solid program (also very competitive), but I don't feel I would be very happy there for various reasons based on the program itself and the location. 🙁

The thing is - I feel morally obliged to put his number 2 as the final number 2 on the list since I'm making him move for the second time in 2.5 years due to my school/career, but I can't help but pray that I won't end up at that program. I would be so much happier at my own number 2 or 3. I'm nervous about it already and match day is 2 months away.

I guess I just wanted to see what other people would do in my situation. Should I beg and plead to rearrange the list or should I just graciously accept that I have to make my husband happy and accept the fact I could very well end up at a program I don't really prefer???

Well I can offer some perspective from the other side of this issue. My wife finished up her psych interviews and we're in the process of putting together "our" rank list.

There are a couple of programs that we're debating but not for the same reason as you. She has no particular issues with either program but the issue is the location of the programs. The programs are both family/resident friendly and both would provide great training.

The issue is that her family is closer to a few of the other programs but I HATE the locations of those programs. So we're trying to figure it out. The program that is closest to her family is probably the most prestigious program she interviewed at and would provide exceptional training (not quite as much work/life balance as the other programs however). If she told me that she really wanted to rank that program above the other two I would just suck it up and move to the place I hate (and hopefully be able to escape after residency) since it really is all about her training. But it will only happen if she tells me in no uncertain terms that it's the best place for her training.

Dunno if this helps or not... but there are others out there feeling your pain. Good luck!

 

[dannyboy1]

I would make your list how you want it. Your residency is another four(?) years...you have the rest of your life to let your husband live in the location he wants. If you don't think you'll be happy at this program or at that location, then there's nothing more to discuss. Compromising with someone doesn't mean compromising your (or his) happiness.

But look at it this way, residency is also only four years then she has the rest of her life to be happy.

 

[MrBurns10]

But look at it this way, residency is also only four years then she has the rest of her life to be happy.

I hate to say it, but you'll change your mind after you go through rotations and interviews. If you think you can even survive residency without being happy with your field, program, location (for some), and life outside of the hospital, you're in for a big wake-up call.

Edit: Apparently, my husband felt this was on the chippy side. It was just my opinion, so I apologize if it came across that way. 🙂

 

[Sneezing]

Best wishes for all you couples.

 

[LucidSplash]

I hate to say it, but you'll change your mind after you go through rotations and interviews. If you think you can even survive residency without being happy with your field, program, location (for some), and life outside of the hospital, you're in for a big wake-up call.

Edit: Apparently, my husband felt this was on the chippy side. It was just my opinion, so I apologize if it came across that way. 🙂

Agree with your husband. Besides, having a really unhappy spouse will also affect the survivability of residency. To automatically discount the happiness of a spouse over satisfaction with the field, program, location and life (including said spouse) outside the hospital is asking for trouble. I'm not saying it should be the only or the most important factor, but they definitely need to sit down and try to come to some sort of understanding and compromise otherwise more serious issues are almost certain to crop up during residency. With the options laid out in the original post, one of them is likely to end up very unhappy and resentful and that spells trouble.

 

[ReadyFreddy]

My opinion, just to chime in, and based on some firsthand examples I've seen from people who have been through it before:

A residency is a finite amount of time. Where a certain program can get you afterward may be well worth the sacrifice of an less-than-desirable location.

The same can go for your husband's job. If the opportunities for him are going to enable him (and you) to go wherever he (and you) chooses afterward, that's an important consideration, also.

The dilemma will come in the weighting of which opportunity is more important. Which opportunity would be less reproducible in any other location?

I will include a caveat: I don't think anyone should suffer through something he or she absolutely hates (read: something that will bring on clinical depression, create definitive urges to strangle co-workers, or provide lousy training or dismal job prospects). However, I know of many situations in which a young person starting his or her career agreed to the office job in Rochester, or the 45-weeks-a-year travel job, and years later was much, much higher up the ranks than the co-workers who made decisions based on cities and not opportunities. Now, the specific examples I'm thinking of are not in the medical field, but I imagine they could be extrapolated.

Again, I will repeat that I don't think anyone should sacrifice happiness in anticipation of delayed gratification. You could finally get that degree/recognition/raise/whathaveyou and then get hit by a bus the next day. But the fact that residency is a limited amount of time should make the tangibility of the delayed gratification that much more believable -- there will be another opportunity in four years, and you can have a good idea of what assets you will bring to the table at that point in the game.

Best of luck with your decision. I, too, am struggling with a similar situation and am trying my best to heed my own advice. If any of what I said rings true with anyone out there, I hope it can help you decide. If you think it's all bunk -- that's fine too. Pick the criteria that matter to you.

 

[MrBurns10]

Agree with your husband. Besides, having a really unhappy spouse will also affect the survivability of residency. To automatically discount the happiness of a spouse over satisfaction with the field, program, location and life (including said spouse) outside the hospital is asking for trouble. I'm not saying it should be the only or the most important factor, but they definitely need to sit down and try to come to some sort of understanding and compromise otherwise more serious issues are almost certain to crop up during residency. With the options laid out in the original post, one of them is likely to end up very unhappy and resentful and that spells trouble.

Oh, I'm not advocating she just go to whatever she wants...my whole point was that compromising with one's partner does NOT mean compromising her or his (as I stated in my original post) happiness. The scenario she presented was that he would love program #2 whereas she would not be happy there. Then that's that, it shouldn't be #2. And if he felt he would be very unhappy at program #3's location, then that should also move way down the list.

BOTH people's happiness needs to be taken into consideration, not compromised completely. That was my point. (And yes, of cours a discussion about this needs to take place).

Edit: I just re-read my original post and I can now see how it was misinterpreted. What I meant was that he needs to have input, but she shouldn't just rank a program #2 if she doesn't think she would be happy there (since residency is hard and happiness needs to be a major factor in one's choice). Sorry for the miscommunication...I was posting while playing video games. Doesn't make for the most cohesive thoughts 🙂

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Have you been really honest with him about your feelings about the program he wants you to put at #2? I agree that relationships take compromise, but I'm not sure he would want you to train at a place you don't like so much if he really knew how you felt. Picking the right program can have a big impact on your life for more than the next 4 years, so it is important.

 

[LadyWolverine]

Another thing to consider (if applying with a spouse/SO in mind who plans to also be gainfully employed while you are in residency) is the current state of the national and local economies, and the effect on the various job markets in your "#1 residency location of choice." Depending on what he or she does for a living, it may not be so easy for your SO to pick up and move across the country with you this year if they have bleak prospects of finding work in that particular city. For example, if your SO works in the auto industry and your #1 program happens to be at the University of Michigan, this could create a problem. This is something that I am currently struggling with (although not this particular example, thank God). It's asking a lot of a spouse/SO to uproot from an already-established, stable career, and to move to where they may be faced with a lengthy job search or a step-down position. This is another area where the whole match process really does everyone involved a disservice - you have to pre-weight every decision and have several contingency plans in place.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
OR...You could just sabotage your chances at that program and still rank it #2....

This is a really bad idea because all too many people fall lower in their rank list than they hoped (moreso in the more competitive things, but even in other specialties a lot of people end up outside of rank #2), and so what seems like something you don't want as your number two today, may be a very desirable safety net when you freefall down to your number 7 slot. Always put your best foot forward, because at the end of the road, the place that takes you may end up having to be your new dream residency.

I think your choices are either to work it out with the husband, or if you are prone to being as deceptive as Mr Burns, simply tell him you ranked the program #2, but put it lower, and then if you get something else only you will know you didn't drop down on your ranks.

 

[MrBurns10]

This is a really bad idea because all too many people fall lower in their rank list than they hoped (moreso in the more competitive things, but even in other specialties a lot of people end up outside of rank #2), and so what seems like something you don't want as your number two today, may be a very desirable safety net when you freefall down to your number 7 slot. Always put your best foot forward, because at the end of the road, the place that takes you may end up having to be your new dream residency.

I think your choices are either to work it out with the husband, or if you are prone to being as deceptive as Mr Burns, simply tell him you ranked the program #2, but put it lower, and then if you get something else only you will know you didn't drop down on your ranks.

It was a joke...


Boy, my communication skills in this thread really failed, huh.

 

[heech]

Another trophy husband, here...

I try not to give relationship advice to others, because the final solution is really going to be unique to your couple. What works for my wife and I could fundamentally clash with your needs.

I would just give you some perspective, though. This is just one of many important decisions you guys will be making through life. Career, kids, house... don't get so caught up in the medical school hype that you believe there's anything "special" about this particular decision. Don't internalize the priorities of your (still-single) classmates, and don't throw your weight around. Respect your husband, but also demand that he respect you.

Generally speaking, my wife and I tend to function like Mrs. Burns... we eliminated all of the options that were unacceptable to the both of us. Everything else, well... we're just going to trust in fate, trust in each other, and know that whatever sacrifice we have to make in the short-term, it'll eventually pay off.

 

[Law2Doc]

It was a joke...


Boy, my communication skills in this thread really failed, huh.

I sort of assumed it was a joke, but ran with it anyway.

 

[MrBurns10]

I sort of assumed it was a joke, but ran with it anyway.

Hey, better safe than sorry...you never know who out there actually thought I was serious 😛

 

[mwest]

Don't underestimate personal issues. It's very, very hard to live apart & once you match at different places, it's totally unpredictible if you'll ever be able to transfer to a closer place.
I know our motivation is strong enough to do this esp. at the beginning but there are really days when life sucks & the stressors in residency begin to wear on you. Think about it.

 

[BerlinNeuro]

Thanks for all the great responses. First, I would never intentionally sabotage my chances at the programs...I know it was a joke, but just saying. And living apart is not an option. We've been there, done that for over a year before we were married.

I guess it's just a hard situation and I don't want either of us to be unhappy. I very much respect the need for my husband to have a good job and have opportunities for career advancement regardless of my desire to find my perfect program. I just don't want to be unhappy. I don't necessarily think I will be at this program, but it's just so hard to pass up ranking other programs higher when I really feel good about them.

I just wanted to get some perspective from others in my situation (or just have good ideas). IF you have any more thoughts, keep them flowing. Thanks.