My med school experience + random advice

[Conky]

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Honestly it's different for every specialty and even program-specific. But in general, M1 and M2 grades are virtually useless. Extracurriculars, unless they are clinically related, aren't terribly important as well, unless they are really unique.

Things that really matter (again though this is specialty-specific) are Step 1 score, third-year grades, and killer LORs. Really well-written LORs can help out tremendously.

Having research falls somewhere in between the two categories of importance; however for the more competitive specialties (e.g. derm), research and publications are a virtual must.

Regarding upper-division course, immuno and micro are both excellent. Physiology is great too. Genetics can be helpful but med school genetics really doesn't get much beyond Mendelian stuff. Basic psych and neuro classes are actually quite helpful, believe it or not.

Damn. I thought I had found a good answer to this question. Ok, I have this, originally posted by nbjmd in the allopathic thread, does lack of research negate good step 1 score?:

"Things that can help with matching into a competitive residency program:

• Grades in medical school especially third year but everything counts.
• Scores on USMLE Step I (two doesn't matter that much)
• Letters of recommendation from department chair of specialty that you want to enter.

Things that make little difference in residency selection if you don't have the above:

• Research
• Activities in medical school

Things that don't matter at all:

• Race
• Ethnicity
• Medical School attended

If you want doors to open for you, post a AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha), have excellent grades and a very strong USMLE Step I score. If you don't have these things then you need to make sure that you have strong letters (definitely NEED one from the department chair) and you may need to do an audition rotation at the program that you want to enter and be ready to do extremely well.

A strong graduate from a "lesser" ranked medical school will go further than a weak graduate from a "higher" ranked medical school. I can tell you that we screen our residency applicants based on USMLE Step I first, grades second and then look at other things. We can only interview 75 people for 3 categorical slots. We generally rank everyone that we interview.

If your medical school is Pass/Fail, your USMLE Step I score become more important. We don't care about Step II unless you fail (which will result in a low ranking if we have interviewed you) and we will offer an interview to anyone who does a visiting clerkship with us and will rank them highly if they do a good job.

Research is of very minor importance unless it's groundbreaking because most medical students are not able to produce anything that is of substance between years.

In short, we want people who can get the job done and have shown by their achievements academically and clinically, that they can pass boards and have a strong work ethic."


Now, I know this person didn't mention what residency he/she is talking about, but it seems to say that research shouldn't have a huge impact anywhere.

I really want a definitive answer to this question because although I have zero interest in derm at this point, I am interested in ophtho, ENT, and don't want to close any doors.

I say I don't want to close doors because I am not interested in research, and don't want to do any in med school unless I have to. Can you offer any thoughts on nbjmd's post?

Thanks for the great thread by the way.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

In short, we want people who can get the job done and have shown by their achievements academically and clinically, that they can pass boards and have a strong work ethic."


Now, I know this person didn't mention what residency he/she is talking about, but it seems to say that research shouldn't have a huge impact anywhere.

I really want a definitive answer to this question because although I have zero interest in derm at this point, I am interested in ophtho, ENT, and don't want to close any doors.

I say I don't want to close doors because I am not interested in research, and don't want to do any in med school unless I have to. Can you offer any thoughts on nbjmd's post?

Thanks for the great thread by the way.

If you're interested in ophtho and ENT but don't want to do an ounce of research, that can be problematic.

Here's the deal: when you apply the whole application is looked at: grades, step 1, letters of recommendation, research, and finally the interview. Now people can debate which one is most important versus second most important, but frankly they ALL count. So if you refuse to do research at all you're going to be missing research category entirely.

You'll also be missing a couple of the less tangibles that come with research: first of all a chance to get better letters of recommendation by working with faculty in your school in ophthalmology, ENT, etc. Unless you're doing research there's little reason faculty will want to interact with you. You can shadow them but they don't gain anything from that. When it comes to writing letters you can bet they'll spend more time to write a nice letter if you're someone that's helped their research projects than for some student that just did a 1 month rotation and now wants a letter. They may be even happy to make some phone calls for you, which can help a lot.

Another reason research is important is that for the competitive specialties such as the two we're talking about is that almost every program is academic (affiliated with a research university). Academic faculty like and tend to do a lot of research. People like other people who have similar interests, therefore having an interest in research helps build rapport which can be important in the interview. Academic faculty also count their accomplishments by their research and publications, so it'll be mighty impressive if you can whip out a paper or two that you wrote.

When it comes to the other stuff I have mixed feelings. Step I is set in stone and standardized, but its mainly used as a cut off. You won't get THAT much more for being 260 vs 250. When it comes to grades I feel that its hard to compare applicants because every school has a different grading system with different criteria. Saying this guy honored 3/6 rotations in third year isn't as good as this girl honored 4/6 would be silly. Of course if you honor none, and someone honors them all, that's a significant difference.

So anyways, I'm all over the place on this but I'm saying research can help you in a lotta ways, so don't toss it out the window without a second thought. There are so many different kinds of research that I'm sure you can find something tolerable.

 

[anon311]

handetalc,

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions. Here's mine:

Any regrets that you didn't go to your state school and save money instead? If not, for those of us who are currently thinking of where we might like to go: how much of an academic improvement between ($) state and ($$$) private makes it worth it? (i.e., using USNews rankings, despite their pitfalls, if your state school is #50 and you get into private ranked #1, it's probably worth it. If your state school is #50 and you get into private ranked #49, probably not. How about #40. #30., etc.). Assume that the applicant has no idea what she wants to do (i.e., isn't in love with primary care or a career in academia).

 

[Conky]

You'll also be missing a couple of the less tangibles that come with research: first of all a chance to get better letters of recommendation by working with faculty in your school in ophthalmology, ENT, etc. Unless you're doing research there's little reason faculty will want to interact with you. You can shadow them but they don't gain anything from that. When it comes to writing letters you can bet they'll spend more time to write a nice letter if you're someone that's helped their research projects than for some student that just did a 1 month rotation and now wants a letter. They may be even happy to make some phone calls for you, which can help a lot.

.

This makes a lot of sense, thank you.

 

[TexasPhysician]

If you're interested in ophtho and ENT but don't want to do an ounce of research, that can be problematic.

Here's the deal: when you apply the whole application is looked at: grades, step 1, letters of recommendation, research, and finally the interview. Now people can debate which one is most important versus second most important, but frankly they ALL count. So if you refuse to do research at all you're going to be missing research category entirely.

You'll also be missing a couple of the less tangibles that come with research: first of all a chance to get better letters of recommendation by working with faculty in your school in ophthalmology, ENT, etc. Unless you're doing research there's little reason faculty will want to interact with you. You can shadow them but they don't gain anything from that. When it comes to writing letters you can bet they'll spend more time to write a nice letter if you're someone that's helped their research projects than for some student that just did a 1 month rotation and now wants a letter. They may be even happy to make some phone calls for you, which can help a lot.

Another reason research is important is that for the competitive specialties such as the two we're talking about is that almost every program is academic (affiliated with a research university). Academic faculty like and tend to do a lot of research. People like other people who have similar interests, therefore having an interest in research helps build rapport which can be important in the interview. Academic faculty also count their accomplishments by their research and publications, so it'll be mighty impressive if you can whip out a paper or two that you wrote.

When it comes to the other stuff I have mixed feelings. Step I is set in stone and standardized, but its mainly used as a cut off. You won't get THAT much more for being 260 vs 250. When it comes to grades I feel that its hard to compare applicants because every school has a different grading system with different criteria. Saying this guy honored 3/6 rotations in third year isn't as good as this girl honored 4/6 would be silly. Of course if you honor none, and someone honors them all, that's a significant difference.

So anyways, I'm all over the place on this but I'm saying research can help you in a lotta ways, so don't toss it out the window without a second thought. There are so many different kinds of research that I'm sure you can find something tolerable.

Agreed. If you want to match FM in Texas, I can't see research doing anything for you. However if you want to match Internal Medicine at Johns Hopkins, some research might be almost a requirement and that isn't even one of the more competitive specialties.

Research being useful all depends on what you want to do.

 

[TexasPhysician]

handetalc,

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions. Here's mine:

Any regrets that you didn't go to your state school and save money instead? If not, for those of us who are currently thinking of where we might like to go: how much of an academic improvement between ($) state and ($$$) private makes it worth it? (i.e., using USNews rankings, despite their pitfalls, if your state school is #50 and you get into private ranked #1, it's probably worth it. If your state school is #50 and you get into private ranked #49, probably not. How about #40. #30., etc.). Assume that the applicant has no idea what she wants to do (i.e., isn't in love with primary care or a career in academia).

Maybe you could first describe what "worth it" means? If your life goal is to teach neurology at Harvard, then attending Harvard would be mighty helpful.

Does "worth it" mean for future earnings, is prestige really important to you, do you really want to wear a t-shirt like Dr. Robert Rey, is research the most important thing to you?

Depending on your life goals, going from #50 to #1 might be useless or it actually might help define your career. You have to be more specific though on what you want. Your last comment makes this really hard to answer.

If you eliminate research and academia as important, I'm not really sure how a Harvard degree with ever benefit you while you practice Internal Medicine in Ohio (for instance).

 

[fastboyslim]

Hey, OP, if there is one thing you could go back and change about your undergrad experience, what would it be?

 

[deleted212936]

Things that can help with matching into a competitive residency program:

• Grades in medical school especially third year but everything counts.
• Scores on USMLE Step I (two doesn't matter that much)
• Letters of recommendation from department chair of specialty that you want to enter.

Thanks for valuable info!
How do we get to know the department chair, though?

 

[enjoydrywax]

Do you see path becoming a competitive specialty? I am very interested in it (especially after shadowing one) and family friends who are now residents make it seem like you can just waltz into a middle-tier program, no effort and minimal research required. What do you think man?