My med school experience + random advice

[handetalc]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hi all,

I'm a fourth-year med student finishing up medical school at a reputable ("top-tier") med school. I am happy to be graduating in less than a month. Looking back, it really does not seem like long ago that was in your shoes, with all of the anxiety, doubts, etc.

I was fortunate enough to get into a med school that I really wanted to attend, survive four years there, and successfully match into a program I believe I will be very happy with. From now until July 1st when residency starts, I will have quite a bit of time off and would be happy to impart some advice for all of you. I'll also be sharing some of my personal experiences from med school as well once I start posting.

I can undestand what many of you are anxious about: what are my chances, MCAT, GPA, extracurriculars, LORs, timelines for when to apply, what are the admissions processes really like, what is med school like, PBL vs. lecture-based curriculum, what are X Y Z specialties like, how much money will I make, which exams in med school are the most important, how hard do I really have to work, is the prestige/money/lifestyle what it's cracked up to be, will my relationships and social life suffer, etc.

I remember how stressful the entire process has been - not only being a pre-med back in college, but also applying for medical school, getting through med school, taking those blasted standardized exams (MCAT, Step 1, Step 2 CK, Step 2 CS, etc.), selecting a specialty, applying for residency, etc. I remember how anxiety-provoking it all was, and I promised myself that one day -- rather than being one of those evil old-school guys who wishes all you guys had to take an 8-hour MCAT rather than a 5-hour one -- I'd help out and make the process a little bit smoother.

I can't make any promises about any individual's circumstances, of course. One thing I can promise, though, is that I'll be as candid as possible. Having said that, please understand that I'm only one person, and my experience can be vastly different from others'. Nonetheless, I have been told by my peers that I tend not to sugar-coat anything, and have been appreciated by my mentees for this much.

Just wanted to say hello to everyone, and I hope my words will help all of you. PMs/Messages to me with questions are welcome, and I'll try to get back to you as I can. Talk to you all soon. Stay focused and optimistic!

Best,
-handetalc

 

[horo1988]

How do you feel right now? Do you feel that all your hard work, effort, and the time that you put in eventually worth it?

Cheers,
D

 

[slowbutsteady]

wow, you're gonna be the LizzyM of residents.

 

[Premed Worrier]

It is pretty cool that you are willing to do this. Congrats. on graduating and matching. I look forward to reading some of your responses.

 

[BlueElmo]

So can we post questions in this thread or do you want PMs?

 

[Cadams1]

I am really curious on the "How hard do I REALLY have to work" part. I can't imagine studying for 3+ hours per day. That would be like.. many times harder than undergrad. Even O-Chem I studied 3 days before the tests and didn't think about it for weeks til the next one.

 

[han14tra]

I am really curious on the "How hard do I REALLY have to work" part. I can't imagine studying for 3+ hours per day. That would be like.. many times harder than undergrad. Even O-Chem I studied 3 days before the tests and didn't think about it for weeks til the next one.

You only studied 3 days before the test? You must be smarter than me. I studied on average about 4 hours a day everyday during undergrad (obviously more when I had the MCAT). On weekends, I studied from about 9 am - 4 pm (regardless of exam schedule). Am I weird?

 

[Mobius1985]

I am really curious on the "How hard do I REALLY have to work" part. I can't imagine studying for 3+ hours per day. That would be like.. many times harder than undergrad.

You might have heard the analogy that studying in college is like drinking from a water fountain. Studying in med school is like drinking from a fire hose.

 

[deleted212936]

What were your "secrets" to success?
Do you have any advice for us premeds?

 

[BlueElmo]

You only studied 3 days before the test? You must be smarter than me. I studied on average about 4 hours a day everyday during undergrad (obviously more when I had the MCAT). On weekends, I studied from about 9 am - 4 pm (regardless of exam schedule). Am I weird?

Nope you are not weird. I do 8am to 9pm on weekends.

 

[handetalc]

How do you feel right now? Do you feel that all your hard work, effort, and the time that you put in eventually worth it?

Cheers,
D

Right now, I feel pretty good. Ask me again when I start residency and I just very well might have a different answer 🙂.

Where I'm at right now (with much ahead of me), yes, I really do think that all of the sweat and hard work was worth it - so long as you pick the right specialty. I am going into a field that I never even considered until M3 year. Choosing a specialty that makes you happy will make all the difference in the world. For me, this meant having a comfortable lifestyle (I would still work very hard, but have time to pursue my own hobbies and devote time to my family/friends...even during residency. This also means minimal call, reasonable/predictable/controllable work hours), doing something personally interesting and stimulating, average or above-average pay for a physician, minimal headache and paperwork b.s., and happy colleagues. And of course, it honestly does mean finding a specialty which has all of that, plus the intellectual challenge. This is the first time that the stuff I study is enjoyable rather than torturous.

So yes, it is worth it, but you really have to be honest with yourself about what you want in life and what makes you happy. I went into med school for not the purest of reasons, like many of you -- and let me tell you, as long as you train well and take your job seriously, if you are a great physician, it doesn't matter what your reasons are. I'm tired of hearing that medicine should be a "calling." That's great if it is, but for many of us, it's a way to get job security, a comfortable lifestyle, professional respect, and the added bonus is that the stuff we do is pretty damn interesting. I also understand that you might have a lot of cultural or familial pressure pushing you into med school too. And that's ok, so long as you find something that ultimately makes you happy (whether that's picking our own specialty, or getting the M.D. and realizing that perhaps medicine isn't for you at all). So long as the outcome (providing great patient care) is there, then who cares what your reasons were?

 

[handetalc]

What were your "secrets" to success?
Do you have any advice for us premeds?

Yikes, such a general question. My general advice is to bolster every part of your application as much as you can. If your GPA is lacking, then study hard for the MCAT, get great LORs for people who can write well about you (much better than bigwigs who can only write you a generic one...this can't be stressed enough), and apply early.

Also, keep in mind that the admissions process is a huge crap shoot. You can maximize your odds, but in the end it's still left up to chance, and it's still hugely subjective and often unfair. You just have to play the numbers game and accept it.

In undergrad, I worked as hard as I could and luckily it paid off. But I can tell you that people who didn't nearly have the "stats" I had still got into the same med schools I did, and some friends of mine who had even better stats that me didn't even get an interview. The process is really, really fickle and you cannot take anything personally.

 

[handetalc]

It is pretty cool that you are willing to do this. Congrats. on graduating and matching. I look forward to reading some of your responses.

Thanks a lot man, glad to help.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

O med school isn't so bad, so what are you going into?

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

What is the specialty you selected?

 

[chiz2kul]

wow.
What has sdn come to? A non-cynical med student?
Oh I guess the cynics are thinking... 'oh just wait till he's done w residency, then it'll be a different story'

OP: Thanks for volunteering your words of advice here. Very very appreciated 🙂

 

[orrghead16]

Nope you are not weird. I do 8am to 9pm on weekends.

Serious? 😱 13 hour day every weekend day? I would have vomited by noon. I can barely take 4 hours per weeknight. Yeah... you guys are weird.

 

[Green Grass]

I am really curious on the "How hard do I REALLY have to work" part. I can't imagine studying for 3+ hours per day. That would be like.. many times harder than undergrad. Even O-Chem I studied 3 days before the tests and didn't think about it for weeks til the next one.

I can promise you, if you don't study at least 3 hours per day (on average) during medical school, you will be buried. And you can't catch up. But, if you are just hoping to pass and don't really care about your class rank, then maybe you could if you can guess well on your exams.

 

[BlueElmo]

How much harder do you have to work in med schools compared to undergrad?

 

[Green Grass]

How much harder do you have to work in med schools compared to undergrad?

Maybe my experience is different from others, but med school is more work than I thought it would be. My classmates have the same thoughts.

 

[handetalc]

I can promise you, if you don't study at least 3 hours per day (on average) during medical school, you will be buried. And you can't catch up. But, if you are just hoping to pass and don't really care about your class rank, then maybe you could if you can guess well on your exams.

agreed, well put

 

[handetalc]

How much harder do you have to work in med schools compared to undergrad?

I worked like hell during undergrad because I thought the admissions game was going to be fair and largely based on numbers. (It wasn't to the extent that I thought it would be.) By the time I hit med school, I was a bit burned out. Still worked hard, especially M2 year, but I did have time to pursue other hobbies too. It's not until studying for Step 1 boards and M3 year that you really have no life.

 

[deleted212936]

Thanks for the response!

How are med school's Biochem, Physiology, Immunology courses compared to those of undergrad?

True/false : med school is not hard, there's just a lot of information to absorb
?

 

[Green Grass]

Thanks for the response!

How are med school's Biochem, Physiology, Immunology courses compared to those of undergrad?

True/false : med school is not hard, there's just a lot of information to absorb
?

1. The biochem majors at my school said that our first test was basically their major (we have 3 tests total in the class), physiology is no comparison

2. True, more details, but not hard, just alot of information

 

[handetalc]

Thanks for the response!

How are med school's Biochem, Physiology, Immunology courses compared to those of undergrad?

True/false : med school is not hard, there's just a lot of information to absorb
?

Conceptually, college is the same or even more difficult than med school.

M1 and M2 years, it's just like an (conceptually speaking, not in terms of amount of info) easier version of college, but with much much more information to learn and memorize, especially M2 year.

For M3 and M4 years, it's a whole other ball game. It's nothing like M1 and M2 year. You're actually working and directly involved in patient care. Especially M3 year, you unfortunately will not have any flexibility in your schedule, you'll almost never know exactly when you're going home, you'll have very difficult standardized exams to study for whenever you finally do get to come home, you'll be going into the hospital on weekends, and you'll frequently have overnight call depending on which rotation you're on. On occasion, you'll also be dealing with attendings and residents who will give you extra work, grade you ridiculously subjectively, and berate you. Luckily, the majority of your bosses will be cooler/nicer, but some will really test your patience and leave you going home angry. Then there will be difficult patients, who will try to ask you for favors, give you circuitous answers to your question, and make you question whether this is really what you want. These can make for some very brutal and long months, and you'll likely be wishing for the days where you could sit at home or in the library, studying (and eating and using the restroom at your leisure). Sounds inhumane? M3 year pretty much is, unfortunately.

The important thing to realize is that your pre-med years, and your M1 and M2 years, will be nothing like what life as a junior/senior med student, resident, physician is like. I know that when I was a pre-med, I homogenized med school into be this harder version of college. It kind of is like that for M1 and M2 year, but then come M3 year it's a complete change of lifestyle and a different kind of "work." Everything prior to M3 year is kind of like an endurance test...you won't actually use any math, physics, chemistry, orgo, bio, etc. in your career.

 

[trinitee501]

You might have heard the analogy that studying in college is like drinking from a water fountain. Studying in med school is like drinking from a fire hose.

I would beg to differ. College can be like drinkig from the firehose but med school is like tying to empty the Amazon with your hands behind your back [ie its all in the technique]

 

[RySerr21]

Nope you are not weird. I do 8am to 9pm on weekends.

I am really curious on the "How hard do I REALLY have to work" part. I can't imagine studying for 3+ hours per day. That would be like.. many times harder than undergrad. Even O-Chem I studied 3 days before the tests and didn't think about it for weeks til the next one.

You only studied 3 days before the test? You must be smarter than me. I studied on average about 4 hours a day everyday during undergrad (obviously more when I had the MCAT). On weekends, I studied from about 9 am - 4 pm (regardless of exam schedule). Am I weird?

You are all "weird" and represent both sides of the extreme. Most people find a happy medium. I defintiely study hard and long when I have to but nothing close to what han and blue described (but obviously way more than what cadams described)

 

[med84]

Hi..
I have just been accepted into the Pre-Med Program a SJMS... I need some guiding help on what is the best way to pay for school.. what can I expect, what I should look forward to and that..

Thank you
Med84

 

[BlueElmo]

I don't take criticism that well. Do you think I should start developing thicker skin for M3 year and beyond? The problem is I tend to take criticisms too personally. Are some residents and attendings that bad?

 

[handetalc]

I don't take criticism that well. Do you think I should start developing thicker skin for M3 year and beyond? The problem is I tend to take criticisms too personally. Are some residents and attendings that bad?

Yeah, unfortunately they are. The upside is that you'll graduate med school a much harder, stronger person. You'll develop a thick skin REALLY quickly, especially on surgery and even on internal medicine. As one example of many, I've had surgeons cuss at me for something that wasn't my fault. But you'll have many more difficult patients than you'll have difficult colleagues and bosses, so learning how to deal with people without taking it personally is a skill that you will inevitably and quickly learn.

Some (but not most, thankfully) residents and attendings are real pricks. It's unfortunate that grades from third year of med school count so much for residency applications. Additionally, you'll have your fellow "gunner" med students to worry about. As one example, I had a fellow med student on my team openly pimp (interrogate) me in front of our team while she gave a presentation. She basically made me look stupid, while she gave a presentation and shined. She did this when it was 9:30pm and I had just seen a new patient and had to write an admission note, while she got to go home right after her presentation.

 

[Pedsbro]

Yeah, unfortunately they are. The upside is that you'll graduate med school a much harder, stronger person. You'll develop a thick skin REALLY quickly, especially on surgery and even on internal medicine. As one example of many, I've had surgeons cuss at me for something that wasn't my fault. But you'll have many more difficult patients than you'll have difficult colleagues and bosses, so learning how to deal with people without taking it personally is a skill that you will inevitably and quickly learn.

Some (but not most, thankfully) residents and attendings are real pricks. It's unfortunate that grades from third year of med school count so much for residency applications. Additionally, you'll have your fellow "gunner" med students to worry about. As one example, I had a fellow med student on my team openly pimp (interrogate) me in front of our team while she gave a presentation. She basically made me look stupid, while she gave a presentation and shined. She did this when it was 9:30pm and I had just seen a new patient and had to write an admission note, while she got to go home right after her presentation.

See, something like that would really irk me and I would have to try really hard to hold my own temper and talk back. I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong and I know it. But being blamed/yelled at for something I did not do (which means the person who's yelling didn't take the time to investigate and find out who really was to blame) is one of my pet peeves, and I don't see that changing.

 

[deleted212936]

Everything sounds so cool! 👍 The more I read the responses, the more I want to be in med school! I just need a CHANCE! 😀

I don't take criticism that well. Do you think I should start developing thicker skin for M3 year and beyond? The problem is I tend to take criticisms too personally. Are some residents and attendings that bad?

I know a med student who was mocked by one of the attendings for being shorter than average but she didn't give a damn about it 😀. Expect similar things to happen, be ready! 😀

 

[handetalc]

See, something like that would really irk me and I would have to try really hard to hold my own temper and talk back. I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong and I know it. But being blamed/yelled at for something I did not do (which means the person who's yelling didn't take the time to investigate and find out who really was to blame) is one of my pet peeves, and I don't see that changing.

Understood. You'd better believe my blood boiled when incidents like that happened...but you always have to keep in mind how hard you've worked and how easily an emotional snap could destroy much of that. It's terrifying!

Also, it always helped me to realize/understand that when a person is a real prick, it's because they are unhappy. If anyone makes you pissed off, pity them. Their misery is something they will have to deal with forever, whereas you can just finish the case with them and walk away. Just don't become one of them.

 

[Pedsbro]

Understood. You'd better believe my blood boiled when incidents like that happened...but you always have to keep in mind how hard you've worked and how easily an emotional snap could destroy much of that. It's terrifying!

Also, it always helped me to realize/understand that when a person is a real prick, it's because they are unhappy. If anyone makes you pissed off, pity them. Their misery is something they will have to deal with forever, whereas you can just finish the case with them and walk away. Just don't become one of them.

So true...thanks👍

 

[witness23]

Understood. You'd better believe my blood boiled when incidents like that happened...but you always have to keep in mind how hard you've worked and how easily an emotional snap could destroy much of that. It's terrifying!

Also, it always helped me to realize/understand that when a person is a real prick, it's because they are unhappy. If anyone makes you pissed off, pity them. Their misery is something they will have to deal with forever, whereas you can just finish the case with them and walk away. Just don't become one of them.

best post on sdn

 

[BlueElmo]

Thanks handetalc. This is great.👍

 

[murdoc9]

this is probably the most useful thread i've ever seen on this site, thank you!

 

[87138]

Serious? 😱 13 hour day every weekend day? I would have vomited by noon. I can barely take 4 hours per weeknight. Yeah... you guys are weird.

Have fun in med school!

 

[anbuitachi]

i can't even study 3 hours a day. i also study 3-4 days in advanced for orgo exams, less for other class exams, maybe 2 days in advanced. i'm going to die in med school =( especially since i can't memorize for life..

 

[Handy388]

Hi..
I have just been accepted into the Pre-Med Program a SJMS... I need some guiding help on what is the best way to pay for school.. what can I expect, what I should look forward to and that..

Thank you
Med84

If SJMS is St.James med school in caribean, DO NOT ATTEND, DO NOT ATTEND their premed program. LEAVE NOW!

 

[HPSPpayissues]

I used to study a few hours per week. Now, I study a few hours per day, in addition to all the classroom time. It was really hard for a former-slacker to adjust in the beginning, but now I am doing quiet well. In fact, now, I actually enjoy working hard and studying over 20 to 30 hours per week.

 

[NeuroChaos]

Thanks for all your advice....
We need more of these threads and less of "why you should not go into medicine."

 

[TexasPhysician]

Nope you are not weird. I do 8am to 9pm on weekends.

I've never even done that in medical school! Wow!

 

[ar2388]

this is probably the most useful thread i've ever seen on this site, thank you!

agreed!!! thank you 🙂

 

[Lukkie]

Also, it always helped me to realize/understand that when a person is a real prick, it's because they are unhappy. If anyone makes you pissed off, pity them. Their misery is something they will have to deal with forever, whereas you can just finish the case with them and walk away. Just don't become one of them.

good advice not just for medical school

 

[ar2388]

I've never even done that in medical school! Wow!

im glad youve never done that.. i hope to never do that either LOL

 

[AdriannaLM]

handetalc thanks for the info. DId u have all ur prerequisites by the time u applied to med schools? I mean did u get to finish all ur sciences before u had a chance to apply? Im curious coz I still have orgo left and I will be taking it next fall but I wanna apply as early as possible, perhaps even in June. In other words is it even worth applying while having a science course in progress ?

 

[fhowie88]

On occasion, you'll also be dealing with attendings and residents who will give you extra work, grade you ridiculously subjectively, and berate you.

handetalc,

thanks so much for sharing, i have enjoyed reading your experience and valuable advice. i am curious to hear from you, how you dealt with situations like you mentioned with bad attendings and residents? do you talk to them about how they are treating you, talk to even higher-up about the situation, or just forget about it and leave it as it is? what would you advice future med students on these type of situations.

additionally, what do you feel is the best strategy toward approaching boards, esp step1? don't worry about it until the end of 2nd yr or study for it while studying for class materials?

thanks for your helpful input!

 

[87138]

im glad youve never done that.. i hope to never do that either LOL

But plenty of people do (at least the ones I know who tend to do well). Sure, a lot of people are a little more lax in the week after an exam, but then start to ramp things up. During the week before an exam, it's not uncommon to expect most of your time awake either in class or studying, and it's certainly not atypical to put in 15 hours of studying per day during that weekend.

There will certainly be outliers, but for the most part medical school requires a lot of studying. There are a couple people who do very well with less studying, and there are a decent number of people who are content to just slide by grade-wise and maybe not put in as much time.

So really, it depends on two things:
1. Your innate ability to memorize/assimilate massive amounts of information efficiently, and
2. Your goals, grade-wise.

 

[handetalc]

handetalc thanks for the info. DId u have all ur prerequisites by the time u applied to med schools? I mean did u get to finish all ur sciences before u had a chance to apply? Im curious coz I still have orgo left and I will be taking it next fall but I wanna apply as early as possible, perhaps even in June. In other words is it even worth applying while having a science course in progress ?

I did have all my pre-reqs done by the time I applied. In your situation, I would call a handful of schools and ask them if you can still apply early. I really, really recommend applying early. Back when I applied, only April and August MCATs were offered (and it was an 8-hour marathon). I took the August one because I didn't feel adequately prepared for April, and it really hurt to apply late. I felt like everything else in my application was great, but even so, I was often interviewing only for wait-list positions. If you can apply early even if you're still in the middle of taking orgo, I'd do it.