My proposal about money discussions

[Eggs n Coffee]

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There are LOTS of ways to help people.

Who the hell would go six figures in debt, sacrifice AT LEAST 11 years of their prime (18 through 30ish) studying and jumping through a bunch of hoops purely in the name of "helping people?"

I believe the answer is... not enough. If it were not for the monetary rewards, there would not be enough doctors to staff our hospitals.

I disagree with the whole "you're going into medicine for the money, GTFO!" people on SDN. If you haven't noticed, we live in a CAPITALIST society, where MONEY runs your life. It determines what neighborhood you and your family live in (is it safe? or are you gonna get mugged and is your car going to get broken into every week?). Money determines the quality of food on your table, which determines your health and your access to healthcare. It determines how able you are at helping your friends and family if they are in need. Money even determines whether your dog Fido is going to live a high quality existence or is going to eat second rate, $hitty pet food from the Dollar store and have diaherrea every night.

Sadly, in our current system, money matters and it matters A LOT. Don't try to pretend it doesn't... You cannot live outside the system.

So, when discussing money matters, please please please STOP this idealistic bull$hit (and it shouldn't be called idealistic bull$hit. It should be renamed ******ed bull$hit. Idealism is good. Being dumb isn't). No, we should not go into medicine purely for money. But the path to medical education itself is going to weed out most people who are in it purely for money.

So my proposal is as follows: when people have questions about salary, or when people are using salary as a factor for determining which field/career they want, or when people are angry that doctors might not get compensated enough in the future.. please stop this whole "well you shouldn't go into medicine for money" thing. In ANY career, money is going to be a factor unless you're a trust fund kid. In ANY career, money is going to be an even larger factor when you're sacrificing a decade of your life for service and when you're coming out of it six figures in debt.

Let's be adults and when the issue of money comes up - discuss it reasonably. Know that it's an important factor, one that is worth respectfully discussing.

 

[Poliscidoc]

🙄:troll::troll::troll::troll::troll:

 

[UAAWolf]

🙄:troll::troll::troll::troll::troll:

Why do you think he is a troll? Made some interesting points IMO.


Maybe cause he is defending capitalism and your display pic says "Hard work never killed anyone, but why take the chance?"

Lol a tad ironic 😉🙄

 

[Jolteon]

I agree with OP, and it infuriates me when I hear people say "You should be a doctor because you want to help people, not for the money."

Why does this not apply to teenage burger-flippers? Do they honest-to-God want to make you a delicious burger, or are they doing it for a paycheck?
Why doesn't it apply to celebrities. They shouldn't collect millions of dollars per movie/show/tour, they should do their job because they really want to entertain you.
Are you an investment banker? Great. By the logic of those who want only dedicated-to-healing-and-nothing-else doctors, you should give up your salary and bonuses because you should be doing that because you enjoy the challenges of quantitative analysis.
Don't get me started on lawyers.

But no. Doctors are a bunch of money-grubbing swindlers apparently, and it's completely wrong to want a high salary because of your years of hard work. /sarcasm

 

[cher25]

Why does this not apply to teenage burger-flippers? Do they honest-to-God want to make you a delicious burger, or are they doing it for a paycheck?

🤣

 

[wanderer]

It's funny actually. I've heard tons of young people (< 30) saying one shouldn't go into medicine for the money, but only rarely have the older people I've spoken to (50+) said the same thing.

Obviously the career itself should interest you, but denial of the importance of money is quite naive.

 

[bamtuba]

Well, when I delivered pizza during college I did so as if I were the one waiting on that pie.

30 minutes or less if I had anything to do with it. Just my little contribution to the betterment of mankind.

 

[EMS5]

OP makes a great point. There is no career where money isn't a critical factor. When trying to do some financial planning for your life, knowing how much you will make in family practice versus interventional cardiology is an important factor. IMO, if I could get out of medical school with no/significantly less debt, working for a lower salary wouldn't be such a big deal..again IMO

 

[swamprat]

Yeah money not a factor is a joke. In the end, its a career like any other. How could you not care how much you get payed? I think it just shows how naive people on this board are when it comes to the real world. Yes, I think its impossible to want to go through this when the ONLY thing on your mind is a big paycheck, but to say it doesn't matter how much the government is going to take out of your pockets and that you'd be happy living like a college kid (with 100+ K in debt) is a JOKE. Thats how my mindset was in high school when this whole doctor concept started for me - I had no clue how the real world worked and no idea of money issues. Well not anymore, I want to get payed, you want to be a philanthropist that's fine, donate 2/3 of your paycheck to all the other doctors who actually do care about $$, you'll be living like you want (a step above the average joe shmo MAYBE) and you will boost the general moral for all the other disgruntled doctors. Its a win-win. 👍

 

[c5212]

OP, I love it! Without a doubt my favorite thread on SDN

 

[TheMightySmiter]

I personally don't care all that much about the monetary aspect of medicine, but it will be nice to get a good paycheck. And, to be honest, the more I read about the medical field the less I could begrudge someone for wanting to go into it solely for the money.

 

[red10]

money has to be secondary to liking medicine for what it is (science, helping people, the challenge etc).
although you will be making a good amount of money, chances are you wont feel like you're making what you should be thanks to malpractice insurance rates, crappy reimbursement, etc.

My bf's dad started practicing when medicine was much different than it is now. Medicine has changed dramatically over the years and he no longer feels like he gets paid what he deserves for all the education, time and effort he put/puts in to being a doctor. That being said, he is living a really good life and has more money and time than many people. He's not being greedy, he just doesn't feel he's getting paid in proportion to his work the way people in say business are.

 

[diosa428]

I do find it ironic that someone who posts: "Let's be adults", "discuss reasonably" and be "respectful", also uses the phrase "******ed bull$hit".

General rule of thumb: if you want people to take you seriously, try to be mature when expressing your viewpoint.

 

[Eyti]

There are LOTS of ways to help people.

Who the hell would go six figures in debt, sacrifice AT LEAST 11 years of their prime (18 through 30ish) studying and jumping through a bunch of hoops purely in the name of "helping people?"

I believe the answer is... not enough. If it were not for the monetary rewards, there would not be enough doctors to staff our hospitals.

I disagree with the whole "you're going into medicine for the money, GTFO!" people on SDN. If you haven't noticed, we live in a CAPITALIST society, where MONEY runs your life. It determines what neighborhood you and your family live in (is it safe? or are you gonna get mugged and is your car going to get broken into every week?). Money determines the quality of food on your table, which determines your health and your access to healthcare. It determines how able you are at helping your friends and family if they are in need. Money even determines whether your dog Fido is going to live a high quality existence or is going to eat second rate, $hitty pet food from the Dollar store and have diaherrea every night.

Sadly, in our current system, money matters and it matters A LOT. Don't try to pretend it doesn't... You cannot live outside the system.

So, when discussing money matters, please please please STOP this idealistic bull$hit (and it shouldn't be called idealistic bull$hit. It should be renamed ******ed bull$hit. Idealism is good. Being dumb isn't). No, we should not go into medicine purely for money. But the path to medical education itself is going to weed out most people who are in it purely for money.

So my proposal is as follows: when people have questions about salary, or when people are using salary as a factor for determining which field/career they want, or when people are angry that doctors might not get compensated enough in the future.. please stop this whole "well you shouldn't go into medicine for money" thing. In ANY career, money is going to be a factor unless you're a trust fund kid. In ANY career, money is going to be an even larger factor when you're sacrificing a decade of your life for service and when you're coming out of it six figures in debt.

Let's be adults and when the issue of money comes up - discuss it reasonably. Know that it's an important factor, one that is worth respectfully discussing.

I have no objection. Wouldn't it be great though if everyone was guaranteed a certain level of quality of life. E.g. if we did not have to settle for a capitalist society. What would the population of physicians look like in that kind of scenario? Of course I don't mean to suggest that physicians, sacrificing their prime years, should have a lowered standard of living. I think that we would have the same quality of health-care, but with less physicians working to achieve "financial security". I think we very well might achieve greater personal freedom and life satisfaction across all professions including medicine.

Working as a physician without worrying about job secuirty or quality of life (in a society where that is the case for every profession) I think would allow us to practice with greater freedom.

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that we settle for the undeniable capitalist world the same way our ancestors settled on a world ruled by God. Which brings me back to completely agreeing with you and feeling a bit sad.

 

[Gallix23]

It's funny actually. I've heard tons of young people (< 30) saying one shouldn't go into medicine for the money, but only rarely have the older people I've spoken to (50+) said the same thing.

Obviously the career itself should interest you, but denial of the importance of money is quite naive.

I actually spoke to an older ER doc that flat out said the only thing he likes about medicine nowadays is the paycheck.

 

[circulus vitios]

I have no objection. Wouldn't it be great though if everyone was guaranteed a certain level of quality of life. E.g. if we did not have to settle for a capitalist society. What would the population of physicians look like in that kind of scenario? Of course I don't mean to suggest that physicians, sacrificing their prime years, should have a lowered standard of living. I think that we would have the same quality of health-care, but with less physicians working to achieve "financial security". I think we very well might achieve greater personal freedom and life satisfaction across all professions including medicine.

Working as a physician without worrying about job secuirty or quality of life (in a society where that is the case for every profession) I think would allow us to practice with greater freedom.

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that we settle for the undeniable capitalist world the same way our ancestors settled on a world ruled by God. Which brings me back to completely agreeing with you and feeling a bit sad.

Equal qualities of life means mediocre living conditions. At least a capitalist society rewards hard work and persistence.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

the reason why they say you shouldn't do it for the money is that money can only take you so far in job satisfaction

 

[praspudi]

I do find it ironic that someone who posts: "Let's be adults", "discuss reasonably" and be "respectful", also uses the phrase "******ed bull$hit".

General rule of thumb: if you want people to take you seriously, try to be mature when expressing your viewpoint.

it seems to me that he said "******ed bull$hit" as a euphemism for "idealistic bull$hit" in order to express that people need to stop being ignorant about the money situation with respect to doctors.

General rule of thumb: if you want people to take you seriously, post regarding the topic; not as an attempt to demonstrate your douchebaggery.

 

[Eyti]

Equal qualities of life means mediocre living conditions. At least a capitalist society rewards hard work and persistence.

I didn't suggest equal quality of life, but rather a guaranteed minimum such that financial security is less of a driving force in shaping how people contribute to society. Hard work could still be rewarded through what ever the individual seeks as his or her reward. I imagine that the medicine as a sector of industry and society would have greater freedom as a collective, and on the individual level, if one drive (achieving financial security) were replaced by some other form of reinforcement that varies from one individual to the other. Its a starting point for a train of thought.

 

[Eyti]

it seems to me that he said "******ed bull$hit" as a euphemism for "idealistic bull$hit" in order to express that people need to stop being ignorant about the money situation with respect to doctors.

General rule of thumb: if you want people to take you seriously, post regarding the topic; not as an attempt to demonstrate your douchebaggery.

pwnage

 

[circulus vitios]

I didn't suggest equal quality of life, but rather a guaranteed minimum such that financial security is less of a driving force in shaping how people contribute to society. Hard work could still be rewarded through what ever the individual seeks as his or her reward. I imagine that the medicine as a sector of industry and society would have greater freedom as a collective, and on the individual level, if one drive (achieving financial security) were replaced by some other form of reinforcement that varies from one individual to the other. Its a starting point for a train of thought.

[YOUTUBE]7upG01-XWbY[/YOUTUBE]

 

[RogueUnicorn]

it seems to me that he said "******ed bull$hit" as a euphemism for "idealistic bull$hit" in order to express that people need to stop being ignorant about the money situation with respect to doctors.

General rule of thumb: if you want people to take you seriously, post regarding the topic; not as an attempt to demonstrate your douchebaggery.

uh... if a person says "let's be respectful" and in the same breath says "******ed bull****" then it's contradictory and worth calling out.

the sum of the argument - let's have a reasonable discussion, but your idea is bull****.
yea. that works real well.

 

[Spiker]

It is funny. As far as I know Medicine is one of the very few career where if you say that you want to make money people look down on you.

It is really kind of weird. After all making money though hard work (you cant say doctors dont work hard) is the American Ideal. Maybe I want to make more money by working longer hours (rather than stealing my patients organ and sell it on black market), which is a good for everyone.

I think due to the nature of this field. Many people are not really honest with themselves, especially at the premed stage (where tons of people "dont care about money" at all because their parents are picking up their bills). They try to hard to fit into a virtualistic mold. People grow out of it once they start practicing.

After talking to 20+ physican that I shadowed. ALL of them think money is one of the more important factor. But again remember, want to make good money DOES NOT mean that they will sacrifice their ethics and mistreat the patients. They are just as good physicians as those working at free clinics (some of them do both)

 

[praspudi]

uh... if a person says "let's be respectful" and in the same breath says "******ed bull****" then it's contradictory and worth calling out.

the sum of the argument - let's have a reasonable discussion, but your idea is bull****.
yea. that works real well.

you know the problem with what your saying is that i can't seem to find "let's be respectful" anywhere in the OP's post. but yeah I guess your right in calling out something that wasn't said

secondly, he says "******ed bullsh.t" to emphasize his opinion that people need to stop the "idealistic bullsh.t" regarding money. he decided to switch idealistic with ******ed in order to show that "******ed bullsh.t" was better suited because he believes idealism is a good thing and it shouldn't be confused with what he was trying to emphasize as dumb, simple, or dense, ie. the idea that money shouldn't be considered when thinking about a medical career.

so to sum up my argument - don't disregard an entire post cause one word contradicts another word in way that has nothing to do with the purpose behind the post.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

you know the problem with what your saying is that i can't seem to find "let's be respectful" anywhere in the OP's post. but yeah I guess your right in calling out something that wasn't said

secondly, he says "******ed bullsh.t" to emphasize his opinion that people need to stop the "idealistic bullsh.t" regarding money. he decided to switch idealistic with ******ed in order to show that "******ed bullsh.t" was better suited because he believes idealism is a good thing and it shouldn't be confused with what he was trying to emphasize as dumb, simple, or dense, ie. the idea that money shouldn't be considered when thinking about a medical career.

so to sum up my argument - don't disregard an entire post cause one word contradicts another word in way that has nothing to do with the purpose behind the post.

i don't care WHY he's doing it, my point as well as that of the previous poster is that it's laughably inconsistent. and to help you "find" this phrase...

Let's be adults and when the issue of money comes up - discuss it reasonably. Know that it's an important factor, one that is worth respectfully discussing.

 

[praspudi]

yeah you're right, i mean i guess it's just me who would get annoyed if i said something and then someone quoted something different and said that I had said it.

Here let's take a look:

"Know that it's an important factor, one that is worth respectfully discussing." -him
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Let's be respectful." -you

I can't find the second quote, which you typed, anywhere in the OP's post, so I'm assuming you're asking me to take the context of "Let's be respectful" and find it in "Know that it's an important factor, one that is worth respectfully discussing," which I can do. and if you're asking me to locate the context in this situation then I will refer back to what I had originally implied and say that you need to take "******ed bullsh.t" with respect to the context of the rest of the post. and in addendum - you're still discrediting his post due to two words. so hey, knock it off.

 

[Gotaro]

Every single contributing poster in this thread is of the "Pre-Medical" status. Are any of us really qualified to talk about this issue as a generalization? It's okay to fight for your own right to be concerned about money, but trying to generalize and say that everyone has the right to is more the place of someone with experience.

What bothers me is that I come to threads like these and don't realize that no one has any idea what they're talking about until the end, when I look through everyone's credentials.

 

[circulus vitios]

Every single contributing poster in this thread is of the "Pre-Medical" status. Are any of us really qualified to talk about this issue as a generalization? It's okay to fight for your own right to be concerned about money, but trying to generalize and say that everyone has the right to is more the place of someone with experience.

What bothers me is that I come to threads like these and don't realize that no one has any idea what they're talking about until the end, when I look through everyone's credentials.

The purpose of work is to earn money. I think it's a safe generalization that everyone has the right to be concerned with money. Anyone that says otherwise is a trustfund kiddy or a pampered and idealistic child (they're both the same, I guess.)

 

[LuciusVorenus]

TI disagree with the whole "you're going into medicine for the money, GTFO!" people on SDN. If you haven't noticed, we live in a CAPITALIST society, where MONEY runs your life. It determines what neighborhood you and your family live in (is it safe? or are you gonna get mugged and is your car going to get broken into every week?). Money determines the quality of food on your table, which determines your health and your access to healthcare. It determines how able you are at helping your friends and family if they are in need. Money even determines whether your dog Fido is going to live a high quality existence or is going to eat second rate, $hitty pet food from the Dollar store and have diaherrea every night.

Why are you feeding Fido bad food 🙁

 

[LuciusVorenus]

the reason why they say you shouldn't do it for the money is that money can only take you so far in job satisfaction

Loving your job + money > Loving your job
eh?

Edit: holy crap I didn't even recognize you without the face palm

 

[Spiker]

Every single contributing poster in this thread is of the "Pre-Medical" status. Are any of us really qualified to talk about this issue as a generalization? It's okay to fight for your own right to be concerned about money, but trying to generalize and say that everyone has the right to is more the place of someone with experience.

What bothers me is that I come to threads like these and don't realize that no one has any idea what they're talking about until the end, when I look through everyone's credentials.

Everyone is perfectly qualified to talk about their future profession (doesnt mean they get what they want). It is just that as you get increasely committed to the profession your voice is more respect.ed But i think everyone should talk about it. Other wise when do you start? Med Student? Resident? Fellowship? Physician? Physician after working 10 years?

 

[Gotaro]

Everyone is perfectly qualified to talk about their future profession (doesnt mean they get what they want). It is just that as you get increasely committed to the profession your voice is more respect.ed But i think everyone should talk about it. Other wise when do you start? Med Student? Resident? Fellowship? Physician? Physician after working 10 years?

There's a difference between asking questions and giving advice. How is a traditional pre-med student supposed to give advice on what the "real world" is like? How can they give advice on how anyone else should choose their career or how financially worried they should be? I know the indications, mechanisms of action, and side-effects of drugs, but am I qualified to prescribe them? Am I even qualified to suggest them? It's annoying to be encouraged by pre-med students to follow my dreams and take out huge loans because "the money will be there in the end." IMO, one of the most fundamental standards in EVERYONE'S lives, especially future physicians, is knowing when you aren't qualified to give advice.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Every single contributing poster in this thread is of the "Pre-Medical" status. Are any of us really qualified to talk about this issue as a generalization? It's okay to fight for your own right to be concerned about money, but trying to generalize and say that everyone has the right to is more the place of someone with experience.

What bothers me is that I come to threads like these and don't realize that no one has any idea what they're talking about until the end, when I look through everyone's credentials.

i'm not "discrediting" anyone. i'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy demanding respect for his own viewpoint while showing none to the other side.

 

[Eyti]

.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Loving your job + money > Loving your job
eh?

Edit: holy crap I didn't even recognize you without the face palm

i have a hard time myself.

 

[Le Rendezvous]

I have to agree with the OP on this one. While I do enjoy helping people and would like to follow that path for the rest of my life, the allure of making ~$200k a year doing something you like is undeniable. As someone else posted, why not do what you like AND get paid great money for it?

 

[Eggs n Coffee]

i'm not "discrediting" anyone. i'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy demanding respect for his own viewpoint while showing none to the other side.

Lol I can't believe you posted so many times on this thread about this one nitpicky thing. I have a dirty mouth, what can I say? Can we please move on to the discussion at hand?

And let me rephrase it so it sounds better:
When discussing money matters, please stop being so idealistic. It should be renamed as naive, rather than idealistic. Idealism is good. Being naive isn't, especially when you're coming out with so much debt.

And we should "respectfully discuss" the issue about money. We should ignore those people who are trying to tell everyone that "money doesn't matter, stop talking about money in medicine!" I think they are the real trolls, and trying to respectfully discuss money with them will probably turn into an argument about how "money doesn't matter" and "you're evil for wanting money"

 

[RogueUnicorn]

i don't think the general opinion has ever been "money never matters," rather, that "money is not enough"

 

[Eggs n Coffee]

i don't think the general opinion has ever been "money never matters," rather, that "money is not enough"

From what I have seen on SDN, people downright dismiss people for being interested in money. I remember reading a thread where a girl factored in money into her career decisions, and people straight up seemed to demonize her. It was pretty sad.

It's okay to say "money isn't enough" - but don't we already know that? What I'm suggesting is that we should be allowed to actually discuss the issue of money instead of dismissing people who make money a factor in their decisions.🙂

 

[RTP424]

My take on it is this. Money should not be the prime reason for going into medicine. However money is a huge part of society, and such a serious and risk-taking career like a physician should be well compensated. But I would have no problem making 50k a year as a doctor if I could work a regular shift like everyone else does, 40 hours a week, not worries about malpractice and lawsuits. I'd be satisfied with that.

But the fact is physicians cannot do that. It's not like a store owner who says "sorry, we're closed.. we closed at 5:00pm, come back tomorrow. Their obligations are far greater than many professions, and thus should be rightly compensated for that. But if the thought of having six figure salaries is the main perk that gets you interested in this business, then selfishness exists. People should be Physicians for the prime reason of helping those in need, the large salaries should be their fair compensation for acting on that fervor of helping other people. Performing open heart surgery should earn you lots of money for the fact that not everyone would be willing to take on that risk, but you have chosen to do so in order to try and save a person's life. You should not be getting large amounts of money simply because your title is MD.

 

[Gotaro]

Generally on a forum you listen to a bunch of people and take what you like and toss aside what you don't like. The idea is to build thoughts. I don't expect anyone here to take my words too seriously and so I don't feel some moral responsibility to not write what I want to write. Learning how to communicate with your peers/colleagues is another "fundamental standard". Would you be happier if we went back to the practice of constantly writing "that's just my two cents" at the end of every post?

No.. It's not that hard, I always do it. If you are speaking about YOUR feelings, then say that. "I'm planning to..." or "I would probably..." or "I was told..." Just make it clear that you aren't speaking from experience, and make it clear that you don't KNOW that what you said is true or will apply to everyone. "Build[ing] thoughts" is much more reliable when you know how much weight to give everyone's contribution. Just saying "IMO" or "that's my two cents" after taking an authoritative tone is not enough.

i don't think the general opinion has ever been "money never matters," rather, that "money is not enough"

Actually, when I posted a thread about money recently, I fully expected to be bombarded with people telling me that if all I cared about was money, this isn't the profession for me. It's taboo on SDN to be worried about the money.

 

[medicalmatins]

My take on it is this. Money should not be the prime reason for going into medicine. However money is a huge part of society, and such a serious and risk-taking career like a physician should be well compensated. But I would have no problem making 50k a year as a doctor if I could work a regular shift like everyone else does, 40 hours a week, not worries about malpractice and lawsuits. I'd be satisfied with that.

But the fact is physicians cannot do that. It's not like a store owner who says "sorry, we're closed.. we closed at 5:00pm, come back tomorrow. Their obligations are far greater than many professions, and thus should be rightly compensated for that. But if the thought of having six figure salaries is the main perk that gets you interested in this business, then selfishness exists. People should be Physicians for the prime reason of helping those in need, the large salaries should be their fair compensation for acting on that fervor of helping other people. Performing open heart surgery should earn you lots of money for the fact that not everyone would be willing to take on that risk, but you have chosen to do so in order to try and save a person's life. You should not be getting large amounts of money simply because your title is MD.

That seems to make sense. One of my professors told me that hundreds of years ago (i.e. Middle Ages) there were three "noble professions": those of the teacher, the doctor, and the priest. The goods they gave were regarded as beyond compensation (knowledge, health, salvation...). Goes along with your point, I think.

That said, detachment from money is a really useful quality to have....

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Actually, when I posted a thread about money recently, I fully expected to be bombarded with people telling me that if all I cared about was money, this isn't the profession for me. It's taboo on SDN to be worried about the money.

well, i mean, if all you cared about is money then this really isn't. i don't think it's taboo when we always have a ton of threads about managing the student debt, going to cheaper state schools, etc.

 

[Az1698]

Well, when I delivered pizza during college I did so as if I were the one waiting on that pie.

30 minutes or less if I had anything to do with it. Just my little contribution to the betterment of mankind.

You are my hero
👍

After talking to 20+ physican that I shadowed.

whoa, you shadowed 20+ phsycians? Dayummm😱

 

[Global Warming]

I think $100k is a fail salary and personally I want my future salary to be infinite. I plan on busting my ass to get to where I want to be and I simply will never be compensated enough.

 

[vin5cent0]

Been saying this same thing since I first signed up here. Oddly enough, it usually turns out to be the ones whining about salary the most are the ones who are most in it for the money. It's just their way of coping with it, making themselves feel better.

Back in the pre-med club days where we actually did ****, we had a surgeon come in. He was very good at the micro incision surgery (forget the name and I'm too lazy to look it up), and was very adept at it. Because of this, he only accepted cash (no insurance) and made a killing.

Some young punk in our group called him out with something like "What about all the people who don't have 8 thousand dollars to afford your operation? You just let them die? Why be a doctor?"

Basically, his response was "I love being a doctor, but it's my job. I rely on it for income. I wouldn't ask you to work for free, and I don't expect to either. Medicine, at the end of the day, is a job, no matter how you want to view it. Once you work through medical school, residency and the hours you wind up working, you'll see it too. Until that day, you'll be just another student who hasn't experienced everything medicine has to offer, including the ugly".

I wanted to give that guy a hug afterward. Seriously, being a doctor is a JOB. I know most of us look forward to the day that we're potentially saving a life, but you know as well as I that the one night you're dragged out of bed at 4 am after you got to bed at 1:30, you'll be thinking about that paycheck, not how happy you are to be helping someone after the third night in a row of a few hours of sleep.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

I'm in it for the money, high tech field of radiology, and free time. I'm not afraid to admit that those variables give me a hard-on. I grew up in a household that made less than $30/year. Hell, I make $14k/year now! How can I not get excited about a $400k+/year?!

People will be getting help too. What more does anyone want from me? Blood? To be a messiah? Nah. That's not me. 😀

 

[randombetch]

I'm in it for the money, high tech field of radiology, and free time. I'm not afraid to admit that those variables give me a hard-on. I grew up in a household that made less than $30/year. Hell, I make $14k/year now! How can I not get excited about a $400k+/year?!

People will be getting help too. What more does anyone want from me? Blood? To be a messiah? Nah. That's not me. 😀

👍 Go for it! Coming from a low-income family myself, I totally know where you're coming from.

 

[apumic]

i don't think the general opinion has ever been "money never matters," rather, that "money is not enough"

I completely agree with you there. The argument is whether or not money is enough. Sure, working for free isn't going to work but does working as a doc only for money suffice? Do you think you would be fulfilled in this profession if all you got out of it was the money (i.e., if you didn't care that much for helping hurting people)? I know I wouldn't.

My take on it is this. Money should not be the prime reason for going into medicine. However money is a huge part of society, and such a serious and risk-taking career like a physician should be well compensated. But I would have no problem making 50k a year as a doctor if I could work a regular shift like everyone else does, 40 hours a week, not worries about malpractice and lawsuits. I'd be satisfied with that.

But the fact is physicians cannot do that. It's not like a store owner who says "sorry, we're closed.. we closed at 5:00pm, come back tomorrow. Their obligations are far greater than many professions, and thus should be rightly compensated for that. But if the thought of having six figure salaries is the main perk that gets you interested in this business, then selfishness exists. People should be Physicians for the prime reason of helping those in need, the large salaries should be their fair compensation for acting on that fervor of helping other people. Performing open heart surgery should earn you lots of money for the fact that not everyone would be willing to take on that risk, but you have chosen to do so in order to try and save a person's life. You should not be getting large amounts of money simply because your title is MD.

I agree that money may be a contributing factor but should be the main reason one goes into medicine.

As far as the whole working for free thing goes, I've actually always been against that and felt we should charge our pts regardless as it also gives them a reason to comply w/ tx expectations (i.e., lifestyle changes, coming to each apt, etc.). However, working with physicians and hearing their own hearts on this, I have found that many have a sense of duty that surpasses not being paid. It is the minority that actually turn nonpaying pts away....