My Rant Against Med School Admissions

[BestDoctorEver]

Rather than "deserve," maybe I should have said "qualified." And the "expect" was in reference to getting into all of the schools, which is why I wrote "and."

So I feel that I am qualified for any of those schools, but I haven't even been given an opportunity to interview at any of them. And never would I expect to get into all of them.

It was about time...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bobsmith]

Aw man I wrote a long response to the OP's post but now he got banned

 

[Bernoull]

My bad if it came out wrong, but I'm not upset that I haven't gotten into Harvard, JHU, etc, but rather I haven't even gotten an interview to any of these places.

Nonetheless, I understand what you're saying and, should I not receive any more interviews, look forward to med school, wherever it may be at.

I'm I the only one who thinks u'll be ranting even if you got interviews but not acceptances from JHU, HMS etcc.. For god's sake ur b****ing about deferments, waitlists and pending decision which may very well turn into acceptances!!! Nevermind the 4 acceptances!! Dude u don't have a single humble fiber in your being, face it!!

 

[mmmcdowe]

Good bye OP!

 

[bobsmith]

I personally feel that this was an uncalled for ban, I mean that's a REAAALLLY long troll post otherwise.

Yeah, I guess you're just not allowed to start talking about a controversial topic as your first post

 

[stevesavi]

I feel like albie's original point was missed, though I could be wrong. It seems that If everything in his application were exactly the same except that he was a URM instead of asian he WOULD have acceptances at a harvard type school, and likely interviews at several. This is troubling, we are supposed to get beyond racism, but that seems to mean only certain kinds of racism.
And to talk about acceptances in terms of a race as a whole is problematic becuase it affects individuals, what is the consolation to the asian applicant with a 3.7/30 who doesnt get accepted anywhere because all the med schools already have plenty of asians with higher numbers? It doesnt make sense to be compared primarily to those who share your physical characteristics, if the purpose of URM status is to help the socioeconomically disadvantaged than the category checked should be reflective of that, not something that is often closely correlated.

 

[FallenHero]

I personally feel that this was an uncalled for ban, I mean that's a REAAALLLY long troll post otherwise.

i think its just as much because threads like this rile up the community beyond belief and quickly degrade into name calling and blatant racism. the fact it reached page 2 within an hour is testament to race-threads on SDN

 

[bobsmith]

i think its just as much because threads like this rile up the community beyond belief and quickly degrade into name calling and blatant racism. the fact it reached page 2 within an hour is testament to race-threads on SDN

Yeah, I suppose I'm an idealist but I'd like to think that it's at least possible to have a conversation about this sort of thing without degrading into name calling and stuff. The conversation was (mostly) civil so far, and there wasn't a warning

edit: then again, I'm probably just bitter that I wasn't quick enough to post before the guy got banned

 

[horo1988]

I see you are comparing yourself to an URM.

Do you know how it takes for an URM to go through the application process?
Right, he might get 30, but it might take a lot of effort to get that 30 than you would expect. (I am asian too by the way)

I just skim through your post, and sorry, I have to say that I don't believe that you are a humble person as you said.
A humble person never say that he is one. period

 

[QofQuimica]

Yeah, I guess you're just not allowed to start talking about a controversial topic as your first post

Users are banned for violations of the SDN TOS. While we cannot discuss the specifics of why any user is banned due to SDN's privacy policy, no one is banned from SDN for their beliefs, nor for writing about a controversial topic in their first post.

 

[tkim]

Rather than "deserve," maybe I should have said "qualified." And the "expect" was in reference to getting into all of the schools, which is why I wrote "and."

So I feel that I am qualified for any of those schools, but I haven't even been given an opportunity to interview at any of them. And never would I expect to get into all of them.

Given those grades and scores, coming from a cutthroat ugrad like Columbia, of course you're qualified for every medical school you applied to. If you believe that the MCAT correlates to USMLE Step I and preclinical years performance, I have no doubt that you will kick med school ass.

But, interview invites and admissions are not just grades, scores, EC, pubs. The biggest shock - especially to the Asian set, is that even you ace everything, work hard, get great LORs, you're not going to get invited to every place you apply to. It's not a lock to anything, and despite you saying you understand, that fact that you're ranting about is proof that you don't.

To adcoms, you are probably another high grade, high score, hard Asian worker that will perform beautifully in med school. But unless you got some hooky quirk that will differentiate you from the other Asian soul-brothas out there, you're screwed.

And if you *do* have such a quirk, you didn't do enough to bring attention to it.

Premeds should cultivate that quirk early in life - sword-swallower, joined Barnum and Bailey Circus for a year, lived in mud hut - you know, something not cookie-cutter EC.

I mean, every swing steak with a couple grand can go to some thrid world country and participate in a medical mission. If I were an adcom, I'd think "mofo paid for that EC - I couldn't afford that shiz when I was a college student".

 

[Tatastrophy]

i think its just as much because threads like this rile up the community beyond belief and quickly degrade into name calling and blatant racism. the fact it reached page 2 within an hour is testament to race-threads on SDN

yea...especially when the OP was only interested in people saying
"oh how right you are, and so humble and qualified"
not sure whether he should have been banned...maybe just close the thread. different means to the same end I guess.

 

[bobsmith]

Users are banned for violations of the SDN TOS. While we cannot discuss the specifics of why any user is banned due to SDN's privacy policy, no one is banned from SDN for their beliefs, nor for writing about a controversial topic in their first post.

Alrighty then. My apologies for speculating

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I feel like albie's original point was missed, though I could be wrong. It seems that If everything in his application were exactly the same except that he was a URM instead of asian he WOULD have acceptances at a harvard type school, and likely interviews at several. This is troubling, we are supposed to get beyond racism, but that seems to mean only certain kinds of racism.
And to talk about acceptances in terms of a race as a whole is problematic becuase it affects individuals, what is the consolation to the asian applicant with a 3.7/30 who doesnt get accepted anywhere because all the med schools already have plenty of asians with higher numbers? It doesnt make sense to be compared primarily to those who share your physical characteristics, if the purpose of URM status is to help the socioeconomically disadvantaged than the category checked should be reflective of that, not something that is often closely correlated.

Seriously...

 

[QofQuimica]

Alrighty then. My apologies for speculating

It's understandable that people would be curious.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Don't some of these top schools not use rolling admissions? Have they even invited people to interview yet?

And what the OP clearly doesn't understand is the purpose behind accepting URM's with lower stats. As much as it hurts to know how hard you have worked, it will take certain groups of people much more hard work to reach that same level, if even possible, given the circumstances.

Yes.

 

[yearn4ivy]

Don't some of these top schools not use rolling admissions? Have they even invited people to interview yet?

And what the OP clearly doesn't understand is the purpose behind accepting URM's with lower stats. As much as it hurts to know how hard you have worked, it will take certain groups of people much more hard work to reach that same level, if even possible, given the circumstances.

I'm not biased or prejudiced. I mean I tutor inner city kids...

 

[Pianoman32]

Look at any United States census. Asians by far make much more than any other racial group, followed by Whites, Hispanics, and then Blacks.

Yes, but we all know there are blacks that come from well off families and asians that come from poor families.

The generalization you just made about socioeconomic status would be like me posting a graph showing violent crimes based on race and then saying we should have more strict laws towards african americans.

To the OP, I feel your pain man. When I applied, I saw all of these MD apps of well off URM's getting in with low mcats and gpas and it pissed me off too. I'm white and I grew up in a poor family. I checked the box and wrote the economically disadvantaged essay. I mostly did this because I wanted to explain why I went to a community college first (working 40 hours a week in high school and college to help support the fam, etc.). I also showed how growing up my mom made a total income of about 13000 a year raising 2 kids on her own w/o child support. I am also a military vet and I figured this would help seeing that military vets are probably more un-represented in medicine than any group out there.

Anyways, admission committees seemed to take little interest in either of these factors as I only ended up getting 2 interview invites all cycle with pretty good stats and EC's.

Now listen, I understand there are issues that African Americans have to face growing up based upon the color of their skin. However, Hispanics are also thrown in the mix and you can't tell me that the discrimination they face based on their skin color is any worse than that of asians or muslims who don't get the preferential treatment in the admin process.

Don't try to tell me that my struggles growing up equate in no way to the battles of well off URMs. I'm all for providing help to [insert race]; however, I'm not for providing help to the URM's who come from families where both parents are physicians, who come from families who were able to provide money for mcat prep classes, who come from families that paid for their college tuition.

To the OP, don't sweat it too much that you're not in a top 10 school. If you work your ass off in med school, you can get any residency you want no matter what school you go to.

 

[pelu]

Someone please get the OP a waaa-burger with those french cries.

 

[anonymousername]

this thread is a big lol

 

[Slack3r]

I don't agree with the race aspect of URM. I do feel that those from economically disadvantaged backgrounds should receive some credit (I know I alone have spent nearly $2000 on test materials and such) simply because this is such an expensive process. Being of a certain ethnicity means nothing if you grew up in a similar neighborhood as those same whites/Asians that you supposedly have a "leg-up" over due to race.

I think where the whole system breaks down is when you have a disadvantaged, say Asian, vs. an economically affluent, let's say, Puerto Rican. Who is more disadvantaged? I think it's silly to assume that the Puerto Rican would better serve underserved populations simply because they may look similar. Since he came from an affluent background, maybe he wants to maintain that lifestyle and is gunning for derm, never to lay eyes on an indigent population in his career? It just seems, that in such a variable process, reducing decisions to "we need more brownies" isn't really right.

And hasn't California banned any recognition of race in admissions processes?

 

[teenmachinery1]

In particular, my rant against how the med school admissions process selectively discriminates against Caucasians and Asians. First, a little bit about myself: I am an Asian male attending Columbia University. My GPA is 3.9+, and I got a 39S on my MCAT. I have 2 years of research, countless hours of volunteer experience, work experience in both medical and non-medical fields, and leadership positions in school clubs and student organizations. My recommendation letters were written by professors who really knew and liked my work, so I presume that they wrote great letters. And I live in South Jersey.

So far, I have gotten into four medical schools: Tufts, UMDNJ-NJMS, NYU, and Temple. Let me first say that I am thankful for receiving these four acceptances, and I am glad that I will be able to pursue my dream of becoming a physician. However, the number of waitlist and rejection decisions that I have received really bothers me. I was waitlisted at Mount Sinai, the University of Chicago, and even Robert Wood Johnson as an in-state NJ resident, which is extremely perplexing. I was rejected without even receiving an interview invite at Cornell and Johns Hopkins, was deferred at Penn, and have not heard back at all from Harvard or Columbia. Granted, I know that these are all top-notch schools, and I would never expect to receive positive news from all of them. However, I find it incomprehensible that I should have received negative news from all of these schools, considering the strength of my application. And then as I peruse MDapplicants, I see people with significantly lower scores and less impressive applications than mine getting acceptances to these schools, and these applicants are almost all URMs. Okay, so I know that scores don't mean everything, and I'm not going to say a kid with a 39 on the MCAT is much better than one with a 35. But when I see kids with a 30 on the MCAT getting accepted to schools I got waitlisted or rejected at, and the only distinguishing feature about them is that they are a URM, do you know how frustrating that is? I don't care how "unique" or "amazing" your life experiences are, but unless they've cured cancer or mapped the human genome, there is no reason why someone with a 30 should be getting accepted over me. There is a significant difference between a 39 and a 30 on the MCAT, and it's a joke that applicants with scores so much lower than mine are getting interviews and acceptances when I'm getting neither. I have seen URM applicants getting interviews at Harvard and Penn and Johns Hopkins with a 30, 31 on the MCAT and 3.5 GPAs. And then there's me, sitting here with a 39 and 3.9+ from Columbia, getting rejected. Me, getting waitlisted at Robert Wood Johnson and Mount Sinai. Really, Robert Wood Johnson??? Are you s****ing me??? It is called the Medical College Admissions Test for a reason; it's not the be-all, end-all, but what is the point of having an admissions test if you are going to disregard it for certain applicants while holding others to higher standards? I saw an African American applicant's MDapps page; with a 30, she got interviews at Harvard, Yale, and Penn, got waitlisted at Johns Hopkins, and was accepted at Robert Wood. As for me, I haven't heard back from Harvard or Yale, got deferred from Penn, got rejected pre-interview from Johns Hopkins, and was waitlisted at Robert Wood. You know what would happen if I got a 30 on the MCAT? I'd be lucky just to get into any med school and would have absolutely no shot of getting into any top school. But if a URM gets a 30, suddenly all of the top schools are falling over themselves to get that student. What the f***?! I feel so frustrated knowing that all of the effort I put into studying for the MCAT, maintaining a good GPA, and participating in all of my activities means nothing in the grand scheme of things, because it just makes me an average Asian applicant, whereas if I were a URM with the same exact application, I'd have my pick of any med school in the country. The American medical school application system is a joke, and I am so fed up with dealing with all of this bs discrimination against Asians. We're basically getting penalized for being smart and successful, while other groups are getting special treatment.

So there, that's my rant against med schools admissions. Am I frustrated? Yes. Am I bitter? Yes. Am I pissed off? Hell yes. I know that the med school application process is somewhat unpredictable and that I can't expect to get into all of the schools I apply to. But seeing URM applicants with significantly less impressive applications getting into the schools I have already gotten rejected or waitlisted at just makes me want to punch something. I can't wait for this whole application process to be done and over with so that I don't have to deal with anymore of this bs.

[/rant]

 

[theWUbear]

The whole socioeconomic status argument is way off track. If that was the reason, what does skin color have to do with it? There would be no URM, there would simply be analysis of whether a person was raised in a poor neighborhood and the financial status of the applicant, regardless of race.

The fact is, 12.4% of the US population identifies as Black or African American whereas 3.3% of the physician population is Black/AA (using Black/AA as an example for URM). This is a problem, and the solution is the URM program in place today.

 

[theWUbear]

I don't agree with the race aspect of URM. I do feel that those from economically disadvantaged backgrounds should receive some credit (I know I alone have spent nearly $2000 on test materials and such) simply because this is such an expensive process. Being of a certain ethnicity means nothing if you grew up in a similar neighborhood as those same whites/Asians that you supposedly have a "leg-up" over due to race.

I think where the whole system breaks down is when you have a disadvantaged, say Asian, vs. an economically affluent, let's say, Puerto Rican. Who is more disadvantaged? I think it's silly to assume that the Puerto Rican would better serve underserved populations simply because they may look similar. Since he came from an affluent background, maybe he wants to maintain that lifestyle and is gunning for derm, never to lay eyes on an indigent population in his career? It just seems, that in such a variable process, reducing decisions to "we need more brownies" isn't really right.

And hasn't California banned any recognition of race in admissions processes?

It may be silly to assume the Puerto Rican would better serve underserved populations because he looks similar, but on the other hand...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151863,00.html

And again, the system is built to fix a discrepancy between US population and physician population so the 'who is more disadvantaged' argument while interesting is not relevant, if I understand correctly.

 

[stevesavi]

It may be silly to assume the Puerto Rican would better serve underserved populations because he looks similar, but on the other hand...

[B]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151863,00.html[/B]

And again, the system is built to fix a discrepancy between US population and physician population so the 'who is more disadvantaged' argument while interesting is not relevant, if I understand correctly.

It seems like you are preposing that med schools should accept more minorities in order to placate the racist preferences of those outlined in this article.

 

[teenmachinery1]

It may be silly to assume the Puerto Rican would better serve underserved populations because he looks similar, but on the other hand...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151863,00.html

And again, the system is built to fix a discrepancy between US population and physician population so the 'who is more disadvantaged' argument while interesting is not relevant, if I understand correctly.

citing fox news? might as well cite the onion:

http://www.theonion.com/content/infograph/fox_news_racism_intentional

 

[bobsmith]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151863,00.html

citing fox news? might as well cite the onion:

While I generally disagree with many of the opinions on Fox News, I also don't think it's fair to completely discredit news articles from their site simply because it's on Fox News.

For example, the same article can be found on the cbs website:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/29/health/webmd/main683772.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

 

[theWUbear]

It seems like you are preposing that med schools should accept more minorities in order to placate the racist preferences of those outlined in this article.

I guess its not the best thing that humans innately feel more comfortable with people of the same skin color, but I propose that skin color is a bit of a lurking variable, the real comfort coming from total shared experience and culture - skin color just being one factor. Regardless, you have a great point and it has me wondering about the underlying reasons for attempting to fix the discrepancy between physician population by race and US population by race. However, without knowing exactly why it is a good thing, it still seems like a good idea to me on the surface to fix said discrepancy.

citing fox news? might as well cite the onion:

http://www.theonion.com/content/infograph/fox_news_racism_intentional

When reading an article on foxnews.com, notice the byline. When it says "foxnews.com" you are reading an article written by your "fair and balanced" friends at fox. When it says "AP Report", or in this case, "WebMD", fox news didn't write the article, they just chose to place it on their website. The only bias on fox's behalf can be in the selection of the article, not the content.

 

[FloatOn]

I mean, every swing steak with a couple grand can go to some thrid world country and participate in a medical mission. If I were an adcom, I'd think "mofo paid for that EC - I couldn't afford that shiz when I was a college student".

That's my contribution to this thread for now. I'll read the OP's tirade more thoroughly a little later. I need something easier on the eyes now.

 

[ilikekiwis]

I feel like albie's original point was missed, though I could be wrong. It seems that If everything in his application were exactly the same except that he was a URM instead of asian he WOULD have acceptances at a harvard type school, and likely interviews at several. This is troubling, we are supposed to get beyond racism, but that seems to mean only certain kinds of racism.
And to talk about acceptances in terms of a race as a whole is problematic becuase it affects individuals, what is the consolation to the asian applicant with a 3.7/30 who doesnt get accepted anywhere because all the med schools already have plenty of asians with higher numbers? It doesnt make sense to be compared primarily to those who share your physical characteristics, if the purpose of URM status is to help the socioeconomically disadvantaged than the category checked should be reflective of that, not something that is often closely correlated.

1) Seriously, it seems people were just so defensive/offended about what the OP had to say that they then resorted to personal attacks about him being a 'tool' rather than actually address his main point. True, he did sound arrogant, but his concerns are valid. That URMs are given a boost because of their race moreso than their socioeconomic background is ridiculously, the system is flawed. I know it's only anecdotal, but I know enough URMs that are applying this cycle who do not come from disadvantaged backgrounds who are granted interviews/acceptances at multiple top schools. I fully support a system in which race is put in the backseat and rather have the socioeconomic backgrounds factor in the most.

2) The point someone was trying to make with the graph of income by race is also ridiculous. It doesn't tell the whole story. Asians, especially those whose parents are immigrants, really do have a high work ethic and value it strongly. Their parents came to this country to escape all sorts of hardships and oppressive government, and because they worked hard and embraced the American Dream, were able to garner higher income. Their children, the first generation born here, still hold onto those values because they saw what their parents went through.

That being said, my view is the system for the URM "bump" we have now: it is what it is. It's flawed, but it is what we've got and is just another one of those hoops that needs to be jumped through for the admissions process. As applicants, we have no say in how it is run, so we just deal with it until we are in a position to change it.

3) I don't agree with the OP being banned. It looks like he wasn't trolling, but rather stating why he is frustrated, and he never personally attacked anyone, while the reverse was true.

 

[VTBuc]

Yes, but we all know there are blacks that come from well off families and asians that come from poor families.

The generalization you just made about socioeconomic status would be like me posting a graph showing violent crimes based on race and then saying we should have more strict laws towards african americans.

It's not the generalization I made, it's a fact that on average, Asians make the most money and African Americans make the least.

That's the logic behind affirmative action, whether it be for college or for employment. Because of past discrimination, URMs are held at a disadvantage in life and by relaxing standards for them, it gives them a fair chance.

Let's talk extremes. If one family makes $100k a year, and another family makes $10k a year...the richer family's children are going to have better education, probably go to a nicer and more expensive university, will likely have lived in a better neighborhood with nicer schools, etc. etc.

And I know it's going to be tempting to point your finger at me and say, "Well VTBuc THAT'S racist! Not all Black people are poor and not all Asians are rich!" Well, of course not. And that's why there's a move to replace race and gender-based affirmative action with socioeconomic-based affirmative action(which I am in favor of). For now, though, colleges and employers have decided to stick with race-based affirmative action even though it's a pretty flawed way of thinking.

To complicate matters even worse, the original mindset of affirmative action...the one of "let's help disadvantaged minorities have a better chance" has been replaced with "we need more black and hispanic people at our school" with the original reasoning lost somewhere in between.

 

[VTBuc]

2) The point someone was trying to make with the graph of income by race is also ridiculous. It doesn't tell the whole story. Asians, especially those whose parents are immigrants, really do have a high work ethic and value it strongly. Their parents came to this country to escape all sorts of hardships and oppressive government, and because they worked hard and embraced the American Dream, were able to garner higher income. Their children, the first generation born here, still hold onto those values because they saw what their parents went through.

Since this is aimed at me, what "point", exactly, did you interpret as me trying to make? I simply stated the logic behind it.

 

[futureboy]

Yeah, I suppose I'm an idealist but I'd like to think that it's at least possible to have a conversation about this sort of thing without degrading into name calling and stuff. The conversation was (mostly) civil so far, and there wasn't a warning

edit: then again, I'm probably just bitter that I wasn't quick enough to post before the guy got banned

The OP is a tool. However, unless there was something that was deleted, I didn't see anything that would justify the OP's being banned.

 

[lopsi]

I find it pretty sad that someone who speaks their mind gets banned. He said something that he feels is a truth at least when it comes to him. Yes it sucks for the people that didn't get in anywhere and have not heard back even though they have a 3.5 and 20smthng. But there are people out there (regardless of whether this guy is troll or not) that have those 3.9 and 35+ stats and don't get into top schools because they're not underserved or havent traveled to a 3rd world nation to save starving children there.
The guys PS is not the issue if he's heard from NYU, Tufts etc but it has more to do with him filling a quota. I myself was not able to get a 35+ but I don't hate on those that worked their a** off to achieve that. He has as much right to be upset as anyone else who hasnt heard from a single school. This is just reverse discrimination, but saying that makes u a troll. Rediculous.

 

[SirSpicious]

"Rediculous" ?????


/facepalmed

 

[SirSpicious]

-

 

[RogueUnicorn]

The OP is a tool. However, unless there was something that was deleted, I didn't see anything that would justify the OP's being banned.

I find it pretty sad that someone who speaks their mind gets banned. He said something that he feels is a truth at least when it comes to him. Yes it sucks for the people that didn't get in anywhere and have not heard back even though they have a 3.5 and 20smthng. But there are people out there (regardless of whether this guy is troll or not) that have those 3.9 and 35+ stats and don't get into top schools because they're not underserved or havent traveled to a 3rd world nation to save starving children there.
The guys PS is not the issue if he's heard from NYU, Tufts etc but it has more to do with him filling a quota. I myself was not able to get a 35+ but I don't hate on those that worked their a** off to achieve that. He has as much right to be upset as anyone else who hasnt heard from a single school. This is just reverse discrimination, but saying that makes u a troll. Rediculous.

it could just be that the op made a new account or something just to rant and thereby violated the TOS

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You deserve but don't expect. Disconnect.

i u <3
but honestly
the reality is that a lot of anti-social or people with no bedside manner go into health care and realize they fail.. epicly..

this reminds me of my friend.. he can be easily called a sociopath.. he refuses to listen or comfort a person. when my friend went to talk to him about her having a medical issue that might leave her infertile he told her "other people have real problems dear".
and he's aspiring to be a psychologist.. what's wrong with this story?

 

[futureboy]

it could just be that the op made a new account or something just to rant and thereby violated the TOS

Yes, creating a second account would violate the TOS. I guess we don't know the whole story. The rant wasn't that bad though, and generated a decent discussion.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

i take what the mod said on face value and have to assume there's more going on

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yes, but we all know there are blacks that come from well off families and asians that come from poor families.

The generalization you just made about socioeconomic status would be like me posting a graph showing violent crimes based on race and then saying we should have more strict laws towards african americans.

To the OP, I feel your pain man. When I applied, I saw all of these MD apps of well off URM's getting in with low mcats and gpas and it pissed me off too. I'm white and I grew up in a poor family. I checked the box and wrote the economically disadvantaged essay. I mostly did this because I wanted to explain why I went to a community college first (working 40 hours a week in high school and college to help support the fam, etc.). I also showed how growing up my mom made a total income of about 13000 a year raising 2 kids on her own w/o child support. I am also a military vet and I figured this would help seeing that military vets are probably more un-represented in medicine than any group out there.

Anyways, admission committees seemed to take little interest in either of these factors as I only ended up getting 2 interview invites all cycle with pretty good stats and EC's.

Now listen, I understand there are issues that African Americans have to face growing up based upon the color of their skin. However, Hispanics are also thrown in the mix and you can't tell me that the discrimination they face based on their skin color is any worse than that of asians or muslims who don't get the preferential treatment in the admin process.

Don't try to tell me that my struggles growing up equate in no way to the battles of well off URMs. I'm all for providing help to [insert race]; however, I'm not for providing help to the URM's who come from families where both parents are physicians, who come from families who were able to provide money for mcat prep classes, who come from families that paid for their college tuition.

To the OP, don't sweat it too much that you're not in a top 10 school. If you work your ass off in med school, you can get any residency you want no matter what school you go to.

i've talked about this being a problem like a week ago on SDN, i think urm needs to be reformed towards giving people who come from economically disadvantaged family backgrounds and show great effort towards achieving medical school. Of course urm status is because there arent enough urms to treat or help their own communities and the ones that aspire for medical school are such a small group that if they were put into the same stat requirements there'd be even fewer urms in medical school.
and because people of similar race or class relate better to each other then a person of different race or class. So i'm going to have to say that this is a way way way way controversial topic and there's no right answer..

 

[RogueUnicorn]

i'm going to look this up later when i have time, but there are signficant differences in standardized test scores between african americans and whites after controlling for socioeconomic status. there's more going on here than simply social status.

 

[SirSpicious]

nm

 

[ijn]

i'm going to look this up later when i have time, but there are signficant differences in standardized test scores between african americans and whites after controlling for socioeconomic status. there's more going on here than simply social status.

What's the causal factor for the differences? Differences with respect to the cultural value of education? Differences with respect to parental interaction in early education?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

What's the causal factor for the differences? Differences with respect to the cultural value of education? Differences with respect to parental interaction in early education?

haha i think if you can answer that someone should give you a country to run

 

[SirSpicious]

Parental interaction is one, but I think someone published a paper in which researchers found that AAs subconsciously felt inferior to their caucasian and asian peers. Thus, they did poorly on exams for an internal sense of being less competitive/smart than their peers.
Some suggest that racial/ethnic identification be presented not prior to standardized tests (MCAT, SAT, etc..) buf after.

 

[VTBuc]

haha i think if you can answer that someone should give you a country to run

+1

 

[ijn]

I dunno if there's a large enough sample size for this question be be answered, but did they determine if the children of recent African/Caribbean immigrants performed similarly to N'th generation African Americans?

 

[SirSpicious]

nm

 

[dokein]

i'm going to look this up later when i have time, but there are signficant differences in standardized test scores between african americans and whites after controlling for socioeconomic status. there's more going on here than simply social status.

I believe the study you are referring to shows average SAT score across economic distribution, and that whites and asians in the lowest earning category score the same or better as blacks and latinos in the highest earning category.

http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/testing.htm

Of course, there are also other factors involved such as cultural issues and family issues (i.e. the socio part) which are not addressed in this analysis.

I personally do not feel race-based AA at the medical school level is ideal. Of course, there is a difference between ideal and necessary... but it's questionable at best to me.