My response from ACPE...

[southuni]

Got a response from ACPE....

Thank you for your email expressing your concern about the growing
number of pharmacy schools. Please note that ACPE's role is limited to
ensuring the quality of pharmacy programs; issues of quantity are not
with our scope of responsibility. In fact, were ACPE to prevent the
opening of new schools based on the number of programs, we would be in
violation of established antitrust laws. Any college or school of
pharmacy that meets the established Standards for Professional Degree
Program Accreditation is eligible for accreditation.

Additionally, ACPE does not administer the NAPLEX licensing exam and is
not involved in the development of the exam. While we again appreciate
hearing your concerns regarding the rigor of the exam, questions or
comments regarding the NAPLEX exam should be directed to the National
Association of Boards of Pharmacy (NABP).

Please feel free to call or email with any additional questions or
comments. Thank you, and take care.

Lindsay M. Antikainen, MS
Accreditation Facilitator, Professional Degree Program Accreditation
ACPE
312-664-3575 (p)
312-664-4652 (f)
www.acpe-accredit.org


So on this note... accreditation standards are increasing and it is becoming harder to open new schools. I doubt that many of these schools that are set to open actually ever will. For example, take PCOM in Atlanta. They have already been through 2-3 Deans, I really don't know if they have broken ground on anything for this pharmacy school. Also, there is no way in hell they will find any intern hours, rotation spots, or have anywhere to do their IPPEs in Atlanta... the market is wayyyy too saturated.

From the sources I know, who have opened a fairly new school that already has classes enrolled, the ACPE is going to be "throwing down the anchor" soon on these schools. I'm not sure if this will be directly or indirectly through more rigorous standards that must be met to become accredited.

I think we are somewhat safe right now, but if all the schools that are "planning" on opening actually do open plus some.... we might be in trouble...

Maybe we should be sending email to these schools who want to open pharmacy schools all around the nation and let them know that they will be shutting their doors in 5 years because no one will want to be a pharmacist when they are going to pay $150,000 for the degree and not have a job.

Just my opinion...

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[StaviZFingerZ]

Great info.

Thanks.

 

[nampa1]

Got a response from ACPE....

Thank you for your email expressing your concern about the growing
number of pharmacy schools. Please note that ACPE's role is limited to
ensuring the quality of pharmacy programs; issues of quantity are not
with our scope of responsibility. In fact, were ACPE to prevent the
opening of new schools based on the number of programs, we would be in
violation of established antitrust laws. Any college or school of
pharmacy that meets the established Standards for Professional Degree
Program Accreditation is eligible for accreditation.

Additionally, ACPE does not administer the NAPLEX licensing exam and is
not involved in the development of the exam. While we again appreciate
hearing your concerns regarding the rigor of the exam, questions or
comments regarding the NAPLEX exam should be directed to the National
Association of Boards of Pharmacy (NABP).

Please feel free to call or email with any additional questions or
comments. Thank you, and take care.

Lindsay M. Antikainen, MS
Accreditation Facilitator, Professional Degree Program Accreditation
ACPE
312-664-3575 (p)
312-664-4652 (f)
www.acpe-accredit.org


So on this note... accreditation standards are increasing and it is becoming harder to open new schools. I doubt that many of these schools that are set to open actually ever will. For example, take PCOM in Atlanta. They have already been through 2-3 Deans, I really don't know if they have broken ground on anything for this pharmacy school. Also, there is no way in hell they will find any intern hours, rotation spots, or have anywhere to do their IPPEs in Atlanta... the market is wayyyy too saturated.

From the sources I know, who have opened a fairly new school that already has classes enrolled, the ACPE is going to be "throwing down the anchor" soon on these schools. I'm not sure if this will be directly or indirectly through more rigorous standards that must be met to become accredited.

I think we are somewhat safe right now, but if all the schools that are "planning" on opening actually do open plus some.... we might be in trouble...

Maybe we should be sending email to these schools who want to open pharmacy schools all around the nation and let them know that they will be shutting their doors in 5 years because no one will want to be a pharmacist when they are going to pay $150,000 for the degree and not have a job.

Just my opinion...

Bascially, they don't want to get involved. Sounds like you got the brush off. just annul all of the pharmacy organizations and stop calling this a profession if we have nothing protecting us like the AMA does for physicians.

 

[powertoold]

I think the ACPE is trying to protect the profession by imposing stricter accredidation standards. A lot of schools are having to change their cirriculum to keep up.

 

[UMN_MJS_2010]

I think the ACPE is trying to protect the profession by imposing stricter accredidation standards. A lot of schools are having to change their cirriculum to keep up.

says the pre-pharm who doesn't know what actually goes on IN pharmacy school

 

[gsinccom]

thanks for sharing what they told you🙂

 

[AminoAcid777]

Thanks for sharing that information...this confirms what my dean had told me, that ACPE cannot stop the opening of new schools. But, I do think people are beginning to realize the potential of market saturation with pharmacists...I think we need to continue voicing our opinions, not only to the ACPE, but APhA as well, and other universities that plan on opening new schools.

 

[Farmercyst]

Thanks for sharing that information...this confirms what my dean had told me, that ACPE cannot stop the opening of new schools. But, I do think people are beginning to realize the potential of market saturation with pharmacists...I think we need to continue voicing our opinions, not only to the ACPE, but APhA as well, and other universities that plan on opening new schools.

So my question is, who certified ACPE to accredit new schools? They have to get their authority from somewhere. I certainly can't go around certifying new schools. Is it from a government body, AACP, or what?

 

[prevacid]

if u dont m ind me asking, wat concern did u bring up about the naplex? the cheating scandal tat happened?

 

[medicalCPA]

So my question is, who certified ACPE to accredit new schools? They have to get their authority from somewhere. I certainly can't go around certifying new schools. Is it from a government body, AACP, or what?

I think that the ACPE derives its authority to accredit pharmacy programs from the consent of current and future pharmacy schools, and from the permission (or recognition) of the government. They agree to abide by the standards it sets because they believe that those standards make for the education of competent pharmacists. The government agrees with this position because it recognizes the degrees granted by an ACPE-accredited pharmacy school and allows the recipients of those degrees to practice pharmacy, just as the government recognizes degrees granted by 2- or 4-year institutions which have been accredited by a regional accrediting body.

That's just my take on it, anyway.

 

[Farmercyst]

I think that the ACPE derives its authority to accredit pharmacy programs from the consent of current and future pharmacy schools, and from the permission (or recognition) of the government. They agree to abide by the standards it sets because they believe that those standards make for the education of competent pharmacists. The government agrees with this position because it recognizes the degrees granted by an ACPE-accredited pharmacy school and allows the recipients of those degrees to practice pharmacy, just as the government recognizes degrees granted by 2- or 4-year institutions which have been accredited by a regional accrediting body.

That's just my take on it, anyway.

So does that mean the correct audience would be with the AACP (current and new pharmacy schools) to advise them that allowing ACPE to accredit new schools could be detremental to the profession they currently are responsible for instructing?

 

[powertoold]

says the pre-pharm who doesn't know what actually goes on IN pharmacy school

Sorry, I'm referring to the changes that are happening in California SOPs. I know of one school that is dramatically increasing their IPPE hours. I assume this is because ACPE is upping the requirements for them.

 

[RNtoPharmD]

southuni, Thank you for taking initiatives to contact them. I expected these answer from them anyway. ACPE can not help alleviate the situation. I read the response like this somewhere before. Although I would feel that if they get e-mails from many student, they would be annoyed and start doing something or writing something down on the website.

There are other ways to reduce the surplus.

1) Campaign and make the public aware that there is no shortage in pharmacy. (words of mouth, journal, blogs, emailing, re-posting surplus article) The purpose is not to discourage qualified students from entering pharmacy career but to ensure that the applicants (especially to private/expensive schools) can make informed decision financially and to claims about shortage by new schools.
2) write similar letters to immigration services about the surplus so that they can reduce H1-Bs for pharmacist. They won't be in violation of established antitrust laws in this case.
3) if supply can't be reduced, the demand must be augmented by advocateing for any laws and ideas that will increase pharmacist's jobs and responsibilities.. and improve the public image for the profession.... so that future lobbies will be more successful .. may be??

 

[solzont]

Retail pharmacy will always exist in one iteration or another and I don't feel the role of dispensing pharmacists needs a change. This comment is presented with regard to our present and future clinical pharmacists.

The best and only sustainable way to increase our role and thus impact in the medical community is to change the way hospitals and clinics utilize our expertise. Care providing needs to morph into a true team-based endeavor where the subject experts are best utilized for the benefit of the patient. Until the role of the clinical pharmacist includes prescribing authority and imminent domain over medication treatment decisions, marginalization of our profession will continue.

The flush pockets of physician-centric lobbyists have managed to ensure that, for the most part, care providing maintains its 1930's model of MD knows all, controls all, and gets compensated as such. Yes, even the one that tried to order the administration of 1L of sterile water (yes, that's right...no solute) for IV delivery into a patient the other day. The reality is, physicians are not the experts on medication therapy and should not be treated as such just as we are not diagnostic experts. Pharmacists should be the gatekeepers of medication choice and administration.

 

[bigpharmD]

Retail pharmacy will always exist in one iteration or another and I don't feel the role of dispensing pharmacists needs a change. This comment is presented with regard to our present and future clinical pharmacists.

The best and only sustainable way to increase our role and thus impact in the medical community is to change the way hospitals and clinics utilize our expertise. Care providing needs to morph into a true team-based endeavor where the subject experts are best utilized for the benefit of the patient. Until the role of the clinical pharmacist includes prescribing authority and imminent domain over medication treatment decisions, marginalization of our profession will continue.

The flush pockets of physician-centric lobbyists have managed to ensure that, for the most part, care providing maintains its 1930's model of MD knows all, controls all, and gets compensated as such. Yes, even the one that tried to order the administration of 1L of sterile water (yes, that's right...no solute) for IV delivery into a patient the other day. The reality is, physicians are not the experts on medication therapy and should not be treated as such just as we are not diagnostic experts. Pharmacists should be the gatekeepers of medication choice and administration.

For the most part not true

 

[medicalCPA]

So does that mean the correct audience would be with the AACP (current and new pharmacy schools) to advise them that allowing ACPE to accredit new schools could be detremental to the profession they currently are responsible for instructing?

Perhaps. But does the AACP control the ACPE? I doubt it. If the AACP could tell the ACPE what to do, ACPE's accreditation function would be seriously undermined. Think of it this way: If you were buying a house from me, it would make sense to have the house inspected to make sure you weren't buying a lemon. But would you really be able to trust the verdict of the inspector if you found out that I could tell him/her what to do?

The issue is that the ACPE cannot legally choose not to accredit a pharmacy school that meets its accreditation requirements. Currently, as long as any institution does so, it will be accredited.

If preventing more pharmacy schools is the objective here, the ACPE should take a leaf out of the LCME's book. In the late 70's and during the 80's, when there were projections of a physician surplus, there was a moratorium on the opening of new medical schools, and virtually none were opened until recently, when people began to predict a physician shortage. I don't recall that the LCME was found to be in violation of antitrust laws. And whether you argue that the number of physicians is not determined by the number of medical schools but by the number of residency slots, the relevant point is that for a while, no medical schools opened, and this was legal.

 

[nampa1]

This is an excellent post. Dentistry is similar. It seems my pharm professors are happy the new schools are opening (more job opportunity for them) and we are the proles. Clinical professors are less condescending but they have a narsicisstic personality stemming from being uneasiness (with the knowledge they aren't much higher in opportunity than us).

Perhaps. But does the AACP control the ACPE? I doubt it. If the AACP could tell the ACPE what to do, ACPE's accreditation function would be seriously undermined. Think of it this way: If you were buying a house from me, it would make sense to have the house inspected to make sure you weren't buying a lemon. But would you really be able to trust the verdict of the inspector if you found out that I could tell him/her what to do?

The issue is that the ACPE cannot legally choose not to accredit a pharmacy school that meets its accreditation requirements. Currently, as long as any institution does so, it will be accredited.

If preventing more pharmacy schools is the objective here, the ACPE should take a leaf out of the LCME's book. In the late 70's and during the 80's, when there were projections of a physician surplus, there was a moratorium on the opening of new medical schools, and virtually none were opened until recently, when people began to predict a physician shortage. I don't recall that the LCME was found to be in violation of antitrust laws. And whether you argue that the number of physicians is not determined by the number of medical schools but by the number of residency slots, the relevant point is that for a while, no medical schools opened, and this was legal.

 

[BMBiology]

here's an editorial from koda kimble:

http://pharmacotherapyjournal.org/doi/pdf/10.1592/phco.29.5.491

I don't think the ACPE will do much. Remember the Hawaii College of Pharmacy debacle? Look at who pays the ACPE and you will find the vast majority of its money comes from accreditation.

There are two options:
(1) Make the board exam harder to pass. California board exam (CPJE) is notoriously hard compared to other states' MPJE. That has helped reduce the number of pharmacists in California although certain areas have been saturated a while ago.
(2) The Board of Pharmacy recognizes a different accreditation agency. I don't see this happening nationwide. Perhaps in a state like California.