My take on what medical schools are looking for.

[MrChance2]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I went through the application process and was accepted, during the seemingly never ending time during my gap year I have had a lot of time to think this over and wanted to share my thoughts. Comments are welcome.

The biggest fear of any medical school admissions board is admitting applicants that do not finish their studies. Many schools do not accept transfers and a student dropping out is a six figure loss for the school.

This is why there are numerous hurdles to entering medical school but jumping significantly above the hurdle is of less gain to the applicant.

Why would students drop out?
-Decide medicine is not for them (this is why you volunteer but volunteering significantly more than enough to demonstrate that you certainly want to be a doctor is not terribly important, from an admissions perspective anyway)
-Get overwhelmed with the classes (MCAT and GPA) *note they are looking for students smart enough and hard working enough not to get overwhelmed. Showing you are extremely smart but not hardworking is bad and so is extremely hardworking but not smart, you need both.
-Do something terribly unethical or psychotic (background check, LORs, as well as plenty of space on your application to shoot yourself in the foot if you are mentally unstable)

*I also want to note that finding exceptions to the rule is not most ADCOM member's strong point. If you received poor grades or a low MCAT most ADCOM members don't want to dive deep into an application to find out exactly why. There are a ton of people with fine grades and MCATs and it is their kids piano recital today so they need to be out of the office by 6pm.

If you can't pass all these hurdles you need to be an absolute superstar for another reason for them to even consider you (famous parents, published in Nature, etc).

Now AFTER these hurdles schools look for people they think would be good for their school.

What does this mean?

State Schools-They are handed criteria about what to accept. They want to fulfill the criteria as fast and painlessly as possible. EARLY APPS = HUGE. They want people who have jumped over the hurdles that are from the state. Note the undergraduate school you attended is generally not one of the hurdles and you are better off going to a easy school to get a high GPA (it won't hurt your MCAT as the MCAT really only tests stuff that is taught universally)

SDN member fantasy schools-They want someone who is going to do something huge and has a long and proven history of doing great things. 3000 hours of volunteering won't help even close to as much as working to start a free clinic or getting funding to help fellow Native American or African American people in your home town or helping to make a lab you worked in get famous. Numbers are important as they have to keep their standard up but Harvard is going to be Harvard whether their MSAR GPA avg is 3.9 or 3.75, they want people who will do something amazing. You should be able to present a clear picture of specifically what you want to do with your degree supported by experiences and accomplishments in your application. Someone who is extraordinarily strong in research or humanism is better than someone with a 4.0 and a 40 that with only cookie cutter ECs and research.

Private low and mid-tier schools-They want someone who will help to get them more prestige. This can be in the form of high MCAT and GPA for the MSAR or research. I get the feeling MCAT is going to get more heavily weighted in the near future as USMLE step 1 by school is becoming public data and MCAT is heavily correlated to that (In my opinion this data becoming public is a HUGE step in the wrong direction for admitting and ultimately training people who will be good doctors).

Religious schools-Just like private low and mid-tier schools but with some generally not huge amount more emphasis on a history of helping people or religious affiliation.

AFTER ALL THIS

The matters of opinion come into play. Most adcom members don't read personal statements but some do. Does your personal statement connect with them and make them want to like you and help you by offering you an interview/admission? Have you shown interest in the specific school? Do you come off as a likable and hardworking person who deserves admission in your LORs?

I hope this helps or at least generates some PLEASE GOD LET IT BE CONSTRUCTIVE discussion.

 

[Ohyeah]

Yeah I agree. Much of admissions can be explained by the school's motivations to avoid losing money on a seat, and to increase the prestige/relevance of their "brand" in the community.

I feel like some state schools are also motivated to get kids who can help them get more prestige, rather than being totally driven by state criteria. But this is certainly less-so for state schools than for private low-mid tier schools.

 

[red doctober]

I agree for the most part, but I think there might be too much emphasis on, "Let's graduate 100% of our class so that we don't lose money." Medical schools understand that they are in almost complete control in deciding who the next generation of the doctors will be and take that responsibility very seriously. For example, rejecting people whose apps might predict "unethical or psychotic" behavior in the future isn't just about avoiding people who might get kicked out of medical school because of behavioral issues. They don't want those people to become doctors who may harm patients due to reckless behavior.

 

[jemstone]

I mostly agree, although I think the private low/mid-tier schools are more interested in gaining students that value the school's specific mission. Do the applicants EC's show a strong commitment to the things our school values most? Etc.

 

[Mark Twain]

Very useful information, thank you. Though not exactly groundbreaking information, it takes a lot to realize the long-term goals of various ADCOM's and it seems that you have learned a lot in the application process.

The point about medical schools making a huge investment in their students is definitely a factor that people don't talk about much. I believe the average is around .5 mil to train a physician. ADCOM's definitely aim to select applicants that will follow through with their goals.

 

[235009]

a couple of issues with your observations....
1. not all state schools are created equal. i realize you're trying to generalize here but there are a significant number of state schools in competitive regions that can act like low/mid tier private schools while still having an in-state bias and others that can act like top tier schools (some of the cali schools) while having an in-state bias.
2. undergrad school you attended always matters. adcoms at a state school will give the harvard grade an extra close look just like any private school
3. "mission" matters a lot more to adcoms than most people think

 

[noleknight16]

You guys have me worried now. I dropped out of law school upon completion of my first semester. Grades were good at 38th percentile in the class (including 2 A's) but realized it wasn't for me and I want to do medical.

Will the fact I didn't finish law school kill me then? I just couldn't justify the debt, lack of job prospects, and general dislike of the material. Everything else stat and EC wise should be sufficient to get in

Can I potentially twist it in the positive to show I can handle and succeed in a rigorous graduate environment and that the volunteering/clinical experience I did before applying confirmed my desire for my new career path?

 

[1stmeds]

You guys have me worried now. I dropped out of law school upon completion of my first semester. Grades were good at 38th percentile in the class (including 2 A's) but realized it wasn't for me and I want to do medical.

Will the fact I didn't finish law school kill me then? I just couldn't justify the debt, lack of job prospects, and general dislike of the material. Everything else stat and EC wise should be sufficient to get in

Can I potentially twist it in the positive to show I can handle and succeed in a rigorous graduate environment and that the volunteering/clinical experience I did before applying confirmed my desire for my new career path?

Well, don't base your argument on law school debt because you will have med school debt up to your eyeballs.

Instead focus on your personal dislike/philosophical differences with law and why medicine better aligns with your priorities.

EDIT: OP's notes are good. I would also emphasize an applicant's fit with the school and its mission as being big factors and reiterate the (unfortunate) importance/weight placed on the undergrad school you attended

 

[DrBtobe]

You guys have me worried now. I dropped out of law school upon completion of my first semester. Grades were good at 38th percentile in the class (including 2 A's) but realized it wasn't for me and I want to do medical.

Will the fact I didn't finish law school kill me then? I just couldn't justify the debt, lack of job prospects, and general dislike of the material. Everything else stat and EC wise should be sufficient to get in

Can I potentially twist it in the positive to show I can handle and succeed in a rigorous graduate environment and that the volunteering/clinical experience I did before applying confirmed my desire for my new career path?

I am a career changer and it turned out fine (although not law). I think you need to get your "why medicine" story under wraps. What are you looking for from a career in medicine that is not available through a career in law? IMHO, debt and lack of job prospects won't do it. Volunteering/clinical experience is definitely a good "I tested my interest in medicine and after seeing the realities of the day-to-day life of being a doctor, I'm very much still interested."
Check out the non-trad forum for more advice.

Good luck!

 

[physiologist]

I went through the application process and was accepted, during the seemingly never ending time during my gap year I have had a lot of time to think this over and wanted to share my thoughts. Comments are welcome.

The biggest fear of any medical school admissions board is admitting applicants that do not finish their studies. Many schools do not accept transfers and a student dropping out is a six figure loss for the school.

This is why there are numerous hurdles to entering medical school but jumping significantly above the hurdle is of less gain to the applicant.

Why would students drop out?
-Decide medicine is not for them (this is why you volunteer but volunteering significantly more than enough to demonstrate that you certainly want to be a doctor is not terribly important, from an admissions perspective anyway)
-Get overwhelmed with the classes (MCAT and GPA) *note they are looking for students smart enough and hard working enough not to get overwhelmed. Showing you are extremely smart but not hardworking is bad and so is extremely hardworking but not smart, you need both.
-Do something terribly unethical or psychotic (background check, LORs, as well as plenty of space on your application to shoot yourself in the foot if you are mentally unstable)

*I also want to note that finding exceptions to the rule is not most ADCOM member's strong point. If you received poor grades or a low MCAT most ADCOM members don't want to dive deep into an application to find out exactly why. There are a ton of people with fine grades and MCATs and it is their kids piano recital today so they need to be out of the office by 6pm.

If you can't pass all these hurdles you need to be an absolute superstar for another reason for them to even consider you (famous parents, published in Nature, etc).

Now AFTER these hurdles schools look for people they think would be good for their school.

What does this mean?

State Schools-They are handed criteria about what to accept. They want to fulfill the criteria as fast and painlessly as possible. EARLY APPS = HUGE. They want people who have jumped over the hurdles that are from the state. Note the undergraduate school you attended is generally not one of the hurdles and you are better off going to a easy school to get a high GPA (it won't hurt your MCAT as the MCAT really only tests stuff that is taught universally)

SDN member fantasy schools-They want someone who is going to do something huge and has a long and proven history of doing great things. 3000 hours of volunteering won't help even close to as much as working to start a free clinic or getting funding to help fellow Native American or African American people in your home town or helping to make a lab you worked in get famous. Numbers are important as they have to keep their standard up but Harvard is going to be Harvard whether their MSAR GPA avg is 3.9 or 3.75, they want people who will do something amazing. You should be able to present a clear picture of specifically what you want to do with your degree supported by experiences and accomplishments in your application. Someone who is extraordinarily strong in research or humanism is better than someone with a 4.0 and a 40 that with only cookie cutter ECs and research.

Private low and mid-tier schools-They want someone who will help to get them more prestige. This can be in the form of high MCAT and GPA for the MSAR or research. I get the feeling MCAT is going to get more heavily weighted in the near future as USMLE step 1 by school is becoming public data and MCAT is heavily correlated to that (In my opinion this data becoming public is a HUGE step in the wrong direction for admitting and ultimately training people who will be good doctors).

Religious schools-Just like private low and mid-tier schools but with some generally not huge amount more emphasis on a history of helping people or religious affiliation.

AFTER ALL THIS

The matters of opinion come into play. Most adcom members don't read personal statements but some do. Does your personal statement connect with them and make them want to like you and help you by offering you an interview/admission? Have you shown interest in the specific school? Do you come off as a likable and hardworking person who deserves admission in your LORs?

I hope this helps or at least generates some PLEASE GOD LET IT BE CONSTRUCTIVE discussion.

Brilliant analysis. My only addendum would be that a lot of adcoms ask "Would this person be someone I'd want to be my doctor?" or "would this person be someone I want to teach?" What you said is definitely a thorough appraisal of pre-interview, but post-interview it's more along the lines of what I said.

In that respect, they would rule out someone particularly bossy or aggressive in the interview, someone who comes across as self-absorbed, needy, or annoying. They would also rule out someone who has a sour personality or is particularly impatient as these people represent their alma mater in the medical field, so schools don't want someone who is going to give the school a lesser reputation.

They have enough people with all the affable qualities they want already, so filtering out these dealbreakers from the interview while still having a full class is not that difficult. That being said, some people do fall through the cracks because maybe the adcom was in a particularly good mood, and some really deserving people miss out because maybe they cracked under pressure or the adcom was in a bad mood or had the wrong impression of them. Also different interviewers have different random subjective pet-peeves, so that comes into play too. Therefore luck is also a factor.