Myth or Fact?

[drsmilez]

Is it common for residents to go without sleep for three days? Honestly now, an average resident.... Just wondering how accurate all the rumors are.

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[GreatPumpkin]

It depends on the program and specialty. Surgery residents are the ones who usually have the horror stories. 3 days is a little long, and usually they get bits of sleep during these marathons. But, even as a med student I have been up and working around 40 hours straight. So sometimes these things happen.

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Rob
http://views.vcu.edu/medimf/rob/greatpumpkin.shtml

 

[Winged Scapula]

Ask Pumpkin, Stinky Tofu, Neurogirl, Adrian and I in about 3 months!

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PGY1
Penn State University
Department of Surgery

[This message has been edited by Kimberli Cox (edited April 22, 2001).]

 

[GreatPumpkin]

Don't as pumpkin, he is a pathology resident. No overnight call and on call only about once a week.

 

[Winged Scapula]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by GreatPumpkin:
Don't ask pumpkin, he is a pathology resident. No overnight call and on call only about once a week.

•

I did remember you saying you had Q7 (that's insane) but NO OVERNIGHT either? Next you'll be telling me that you only put in 65 hours a week. Geez...well make sure you take good care of my gastric biopsies when I send them in for GIB w/u after countless cups of Diet Pepsi and Vivarin to stay awake!

 

[kiddiedoc]

That is insane...I am have fallen for the wrong field. Obviously, path is where LIFE is. I hear that optho has a 45 hour work week (so says Freida anyway). I assume that is after the prelim in surg or IM. In any case, I am supposed to be q4 which I thought was ok...UNTIL NOW

 

[GreatPumpkin]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Kimberli Cox:
I did remember you saying you had Q7 (that's insane) but NO OVERNIGHT either? Next you'll be telling me that you only put in 65 hours a week.•

Well, path residents usually work 8am to 5pm Monday thru Friday. A little more if they are on Surg path. So 50 hours or less is the norm. But, I will be thinking about you guys when I am sitting in my recliner watchin Friends.

And, kiddiedoc, path residents don't do a prelim. or internship year. We go straight into path.

Sorry for gloating, but hey surgeons get all the glory.

It is also funny how many people I know say "Why in the world did you choose pathology?" while they make a bad face. Even lots of the med students think that all a pathologist does is cut up dead people. What a laugh. With so few US med grads going into path when I get out somebody is going to pay me big big bucks to come to their group.
[This message has been edited by GreatPumpkin (edited April 22, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by GreatPumpkin (edited April 22, 2001).]

 

[Winged Scapula]

I think Path is fascinating but just not for me. A good friend is doing Path at Cleveland Clinic and loves it and another is considering it.

Yes, surgeons do receive the lions share of the glory - deserved or not (often not). Frankly if I ever have a speci sent to the lab, having a find Pathologist is just as important as my surgeon and anesthesiologist.

50 hours a week...geez. And you call yourself a resident? Well, have a cold one for us on a Saturday night when you're relaxing with the friends and watching tv, going out clubbing, essentially having a life.

 

[GreatPumpkin]

I just wish more people would do a rotation in Path. See what they are missing. Instead of a million people going into Radiology, maybe some will consider path.

My wife is certainly happy I chose path. Won't be clubbing much, but will have a home-life.

 

[kiddiedoc]

GP, I was referring to ophtho when I mentioned the first year of surgery/internal med. At least that is what I heard, never really looked into the field....I am jealous of what sounds like a rigorous residency.I feel for you. Pathologists are MOST necessary, esp good ones, and more power to those that can do it. I would love to be one of them, same for radiology and any other residency that would afford a LIFE, BUT..NO, instead I decide that I WANT to work with children (why not teaching, I ask myself on occasion. I could be home early, have weekends and ALL SUMMER OFF...AND I FIGURE I MAY know enough to teach KINDERGARTEN or maybe even FIRST grade), or I COULD learn in less than 3 years.

 

[GreatPumpkin]

I am glad you want to work with kids. I couldn't do that. To depressing to work with sick children for me. It will be worth it for you in the end. You have to follow your interests, not what will have the cushiest lifestyle. If not you could regret your decision later. Though if you decide peds is not for you, it is pretty easy to get into path residency, even as a returning physician. In my residency there is going to be a surgeon who got sick of it and decided to go back for a new career.

 

[baylor21]

I'm curious about the sleep hours issue from the medical students/residents perspective.

Are the attendings right? Does learning all the necessary procedures and how to cope under stress REALLY come about ONLY from working 48 hours straight?

I know that generally if you are working in the ER or something that if a critical comes in you can still focus enough to treat them even after being up for so long. But what about the routine, mundane cases? Can you honestly stitch a simple wound with the same quality or treat the patient the same way you would if you had only been up for 12 or 15 hours?

I'm not a resident or even a med student yet, but I just get the distinct impression that attendings are FAR overestimating the real benefit that residents get from working such long shifts. I also doubt their assertion that patient care does not suffer.

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"There is nothing more powerful on this Earth as a man who has nothing to lose. It does not take ten such men to change the world--one will do." Elijah Mohammed

 

[ringo643]

Residency reform tends to be a touchy subject. I'm not a resident (MS0), but I have done some research on the subject. It seems that a lot of the older docs adopt an attitude like "well, I did it, and it was good for me" with regard to the whole long, brutal hours thing. It is, however, well documented that physicians do NOT perform as well after long bouts of sleep deprivation. No one does. I think, as much as I hate to say it, one of the most viable alternatives is shorter hours and more years. People seem to forget that residents are students, but that they are also DOCTORS, responsible for their patients. If you're on Q2, and you've been up for 30 hours straight, you're going to be a lot more likely to make dangerous mistakes in treatment. Residency reform is needed.

[This message has been edited by ringo643 (edited April 23, 2001).]