NAPLEX pass rate is dropping!

[BMBiology]

http://www.nabp.net/system/rich/rich_files/rich_files/000/001/276/original/naplex-passrates-2015.pdf

Pass rate: 95% (2013) to 94% (2014) then to 91% (2015).

A few schools have a pass rate in the 70%s!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[VeeSee]

I know some kids who failed the MPJE for my state once and they still found good jobs

 

[confettiflyer]

I mean...it just delays entrants into the job market, I don't think anyone would spend 4 years & six figures in tuition and walk away after failing once or even 2x.

I wonder what the eventual pass rate is up to 3 attempts (since some states require classroom time and whatnot after that). If it's > 98% then who cares what the 1st time pass rate is in terms of job market. Saturated is saturated.

 

[owlegrad]

I mean...it just delays entrants into the job market, I don't think anyone would spend 4 years & six figures in tuition and walk away after failing once or even 2x.

I wonder what the eventual pass rate is up to 3 attempts (since some states require classroom time and whatnot after that). If it's > 98% then who cares what the 1st time pass rate is in terms of job market. Saturated is saturated.

I know someone who did just that! Failed three times and found a non relevant alternative job. Craziness.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

 

[Sine Cura]

Notice that newer questionable programs (like Rosalind Franklin, Western New England "University"), programs at HBCUs (Florida A&M, Hampton), and 0-6 retail mills with large class sizes (MCPHS, Albany COP, St. Louis COP, St. John's, LIU) had a bad showing (< 90% pass rate) and drag down the national average.

The caliber of student is going to diminish further as smart, talented people with better prospects continue to reject careers requiring a PharmD. Combine this trend with the new NAPLEX and expect the national pass rate to sink below 90%

 

[TheBlaah]

I wonder if the new NAPLEX format will decrease scores even further for 2016. All I've heard about it is that it's more questions and it may have a higher percentage of "choose all that apply" questions.

Anyone heard about it?

 

[Lnsean]

I know some kids who failed the MPJE for my state once and they still found good jobs

Ehh...the MPJE pretty much is a self study depending on where you go or want to go to work...not really a reflection of the school.

 

[ICPharmD]

I figured my school would be <90% on the first attempt.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Gombrich12]

Husson University went from a 92% in 2013 to 68% in 2015. That's what happens when you go from an average admitted 3.49/56 GPA/PCAT for the class of 2013 to 3.36/39 for the class of 2015. One has to wonder what the class of 2019 will do with their 3.3 GPA and 30 PCAT, of course they had to drastically cut the class size from 65 for the class of 2013 to 44 for the class of 2019 to achieve these dismal results. For anyone in academia watching this thread you can look forward to this trend continuing because I can't name a single pharmacist who is telling students to go into the profession.

 

[VeeSee]

Ehh...the MPJE pretty much is a self study depending on where you go or want to go to work...not really a reflection of the school.

Schools teach pharmacy law

I blasted through that stupid exam and got it done and over with

 

[Lnsean]

Schools teach pharmacy law

I blasted through that stupid exam and got it done and over with

only in that state and not thorough enough. I think most school teach federal laws and cases. It should be understood that as for state laws...you're probably studying on your own.

 

[BMBiology]

Husson University went from a 92% in 2013 to 68% in 2015. That's what happens when you go from an average admitted 3.49/56 GPA/PCAT for the class of 2013 to 3.36/39 for the class of 2015. One has to wonder what the class of 2019 will do with their 3.3 GPA and 30 PCAT, of course they had to drastically cut the class size from 65 for the class of 2013 to 44 for the class of 2019 to achieve these dismal results. For anyone in academia watching this thread you can look forward to this trend continuing because I can't name a single pharmacist who is telling students to go into the profession.

If your school's average PCAT score is 39, why even bother taking the PCAT. Apparently any score is acceptable.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[priyankathaker8]

I know someone who did just that! Failed three times and found a non relevant alternative job. Craziness.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

There is a limit to how many times the exam can be taken right? After three times they can't attain the degree?

 

[owlegrad]

There is a limit to how many times the exam can be taken right? After three times they can't attain the degree?

I think you mean license, since they can't revoke a degree, as far as I know. And I would assume it is state specific, but I don't really know.

 

[priyankathaker8]

I think you mean license, since they can't revoke a degree, as far as I know. And I would assume it is state specific, but I don't really know.

Yeah I meant license, sorry!

One of the pharmacists I used to work with told me that if a student fails the NAPLEX two times, they cannot get their license (she went to a school in NY). But then again if the school does a good job in teaching students, failing the NAPLEX is out of the question.

 

[MindGeek]

There is a limit to how many times the exam can be taken right? After three times they can't attain the degree?

The NAPLEX limit per NABP is 5 attempts.
Some state boards can have more restrictive limits (less attempts) or make you prove remediation before approving the ATT for your 3rd/4th/5th attempt.

 

[boriqua]

in NY, you have to pass a 3rd exam called "compounding part 3" It makes naplex look like a preschool exam. thats generally what holds people up from getting a license here. The passing score is 75. I studied day and night for 3 months straight until my eyes hurt and ended up getting a 75 on the dot

 

[MindGeek]

in NY, you have to pass a 3rd exam called "compounding part 3" It makes naplex look like a preschool exam. thats generally what holds people up from getting a license here. The passing score is 75. I studied day and night for 3 months straight until my eyes hurt and ended up getting a 75 on the dot

I totally know what you mean @boriqua. Grads in states other than NY & GA don't know how easy they have it.

New York State-wide first attempt pass rates on Part 3:
June 2015 - 72%
Jan 2015 - 58%
June & Jan 2014 - 65%
June & Jan 2013 - 77%
June 2012 - 66%
Jan 2012 - 74%
June 2011 - 92%
Jan 2011 - 87%
June 2010 - 84%

 

[boriqua]

ikr!? part 3 is no joke. and look at the exam dates. every 6 months. that means if you fail, you lose 6 months of wages. whereas i think you can retake naplex within 2 months

 

[ldiot]

There are schools with an average PCAT of 39? OMG
My school is newer (<15 years) but we are at a 100% pass rate

 

[genesis09]

We might have our first school shutdown. Chicago State University is a school with a lot of problems. The state has placed conditions on future funding. Also, due to the budget issues, they haven't received any state money since last summer. If things continue, they will completely run out of money by summer. They will have to shut down. Even if Illinois gets a budget, they don't want to deal with their issues any more. If they don't agree to the conditions, I don't know what they will do.

 

[priyankathaker8]

We might have our first school shutdown. Chicago State University is a school with a lot of problems. The state has placed conditions on future funding. Also, due to the budget issues, they haven't received any state money since last summer. If things continue, they will completely run out of money by summer. They will have to shut down. Even if Illinois gets a budget, they don't want to deal with their issues any more. If they don't agree to the conditions, I don't know what they will do.

That is crazy. I was going to apply but thank god I didn't. There are a lot of schools I saw that had a really low NAPLEX pass rate, I can't imagine what will happen to the pharmacy students at CSU if the school god forbid shuts down :/

 

[KARM12]

CSU sent lay off notices to all employees today:
http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-86031088/

 

[PAtoPharm]

I totally know what you mean @boriqua. Grads in states other than NY & GA don't know how easy they have it.

New York State-wide first attempt pass rates on Part 3:
June & Jan 2014 - 65%
June & Jan 2013 - 77%
June 2012 - 66%
Jan 2012 - 74%
June 2011 - 92%
Jan 2011 - 87%
June 2010 - 84%

So pharmacists have to take a compounding exam to work in GA as well? Is it known for being really tough?

 

[Sine Cura]

NY you can skip Part 3 via license reciprocity. For Georgia you still have to take the practical exam even for licensure via reciprocity

 

[MindGeek]

So pharmacists have to take a compounding exam to work in GA as well? Is it known for being really tough?

Yes, there is a third exam for GA. It has three modules: compounding, patient care module, and errors and omissions. An average of 75 is needed to pass but a score of less than 70 in any module will fail you. I wouldn't say that it's easier or harder than NY's. There is a live counseling session with an examiner standardized patient in GA which would make me extra nervous. From what I understand it doesn't have set dates like NY does (twice a year every six months), and they offer it when they meet a threshold of enough applicants, typically 3x/yr and notify you by mail of your test date. Everything is explained in the GA BOP Candidate Information Bulletin.

There are some helpful threads on SDN too...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/georgia-mpje-and-wet-lab.1131274/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/ga-wet-lab-practical-exam-january.1051151/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/georgia-wet-lab-exam.1111406/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/help-georgia-pharmacy-practical-exam.813973/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/anyone-received-ga-wet-lab-result-for-august-2015.1156708/

 

[PAtoPharm]

Yes, there is a third exam for GA. It has three modules: compounding, patient care module, and errors and omissions. An average of 75 is needed to pass but a score of less than 70 in any module will fail you. I wouldn't say that it's easier or harder than NY's. There is a live counseling session with an examiner standardized patient in GA which would make me extra nervous. From what I understand it doesn't have set dates like NY does (twice a year every six months), and they offer it when they meet a threshold of enough applicants, typically 3x/yr and notify you by mail of your test date. Everything is explained in the GA BOP Candidate Information Bulletin.

There are some helpful threads on SDN too...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/georgia-mpje-and-wet-lab.1131274/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/ga-wet-lab-practical-exam-january.1051151/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/georgia-wet-lab-exam.1111406/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/help-georgia-pharmacy-practical-exam.813973/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/anyone-received-ga-wet-lab-result-for-august-2015.1156708/

Thanks for the info & links. I wonder why GA's exam is so much harder than most states'.... maybe they're just trying to make a statement about doing things "their way"....

 

[PharMed2016]

I totally know what you mean @boriqua. Grads in states other than NY & GA don't know how easy they have it.

New York State-wide first attempt pass rates on Part 3:
June & Jan 2014 - 65%
June & Jan 2013 - 77%
June 2012 - 66%
Jan 2012 - 74%
June 2011 - 92%
Jan 2011 - 87%
June 2010 - 84%

Oh wow! It is a lot lower than what I was expecting. Very fortunate to have passed on my first since I went to an OOS school when I did.

 

[samven582]

in NY, you have to pass a 3rd exam called "compounding part 3" It makes naplex look like a preschool exam. thats generally what holds people up from getting a license here. The passing score is 75. I studied day and night for 3 months straight until my eyes hurt and ended up getting a 75 on the dot

Lol I got the same score. I studied 1 month in advance

 

[trailerpark]

You can always easily reciprocate a license to NY so the compounding is no hurdle to starting practicing.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[zelman]

You can always easily reciprocate a license to NY so the compounding is no hurdle to starting practicing.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

You do need to wait a year, so it's not quite that easy.

 

[MindGeek]

You're right @zelman you'd have to have 1 year of fulltime pharmacist practice (2080 hours). There is a catch though. You can't have failed a Part 3 exam. If you've ever failed a Part 3 attempt you can't 'automatically' reciprocate, you have to keep re-taking until you either pass or give up, regardless of years of practice.

 

[billpharmd86]

Notice that newer questionable programs (like Rosalind Franklin, Western New England "University"), programs at HBCUs (Florida A&M, Hampton), and 0-6 retail mills with large class sizes (MCPHS, Albany COP, St. Louis COP, St. John's, LIU) had a bad showing (< 90% pass rate) and drag down the national average.

The caliber of student is going to diminish further as smart, talented people with better prospects continue to reject careers requiring a PharmD. Combine this trend with the new NAPLEX and expect the national pass rate to sink below 90%

I've had great students from some of these newer schools. As far as Rosalind Franklin goes, i've had some great students, and some pretty lackluster ones as well. I was impressed they took 1st place in the CSC at the midyear meeting in NOLA...but that NAPLEX pass rate is scary!

 

[BidingMyTime]

What is really scary is the dropping trend in just a 2 year period for some of these schools!!! What would cause that? Presumably most of these students were taught with the same professors. Was 2015 (or 2009 or 2011 or whenever they started pharmacy school, a particularly bad year for students?) Other factors? Yes, we all know schools are accepting "anybody" these days, but enough to cause a 10% or more drop in passage rate in only 2 years?

Some of the biggest drops I noticed:

Chicago State University dropped from 89% in 2013 to 76% in 2015
Husson University from 93% to 69%
Palm Beach from 95% to 86%
St Louis College of Pharmacy from 98% to 88%
University of New Mexico from 98% to 83%
University of Rhode Island from nearly 100% to 90%

 

[297point1]

CSU sent lay off notices to all employees today:
http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-86031088/

This seems to pop up every two years or so in a random state struggling with a budget impasse.
It always gets fixed at the last minute.

Still, I can't imagine it was pleasant to get that layoff notice.

 

[Lexington2012]

We might have our first school shutdown. Chicago State University is a school with a lot of problems. The state has placed conditions on future funding. Also, due to the budget issues, they haven't received any state money since last summer. If things continue, they will completely run out of money by summer. They will have to shut down. Even if Illinois gets a budget, they don't want to deal with their issues any more. If they don't agree to the conditions, I don't know what they will do.

CSU would not be the first pharmacy school shut down. There was a school in Hawaii and Midway University in Kentucky that both shut down their programs.

 

[priyankathaker8]

What is really scary is the dropping trend in just a 2 year period for some of these schools!!! What would cause that? Presumably most of these students were taught with the same professors. Was 2015 (or 2009 or 2011 or whenever they started pharmacy school, a particularly bad year for students?) Other factors? Yes, we all know schools are accepting "anybody" these days, but enough to cause a 10% or more drop in passage rate in only 2 years?

Some of the biggest drops I noticed:

Chicago State University dropped from 89% in 2013 to 76% in 2015
Husson University from 93% to 69%
Palm Beach from 95% to 86%
St Louis College of Pharmacy from 98% to 88%
University of New Mexico from 98% to 83%
University of Rhode Island from nearly 100% to 90%

Touro NY has had low NAPLEX scores since the beginning :/ and thats scary because I wanted* to go there

 

[genesis09]

This seems to pop up every two years or so in a random state struggling with a budget impasse.
It always gets fixed at the last minute.

Still, I can't imagine it was pleasant to get that layoff notice.

Last minute has long since passed for Illinois. Illinois hasn't had a budget since July 2015. No public university has received state money since then. There are also issues with state issued financial aid. The larger schools have other ways to get money. The smaller, less known schools, CSU, Northeastern IL U, Eastern IL and Western IL are struggling. Only CSU has stated that they may shut down, though. They are trying to pass a law which will give money to the public universities, but who knows what will happen.

 

[297point1]

Last minute has long since passed for Illinois.

Is the school closed? No? Than it isn't last minute.

I do hope it works out, and suspect it will.

 

[VeeSee]

Touro NY has had low NAPLEX scores since the beginning :/ and thats scary because I wanted* to go there

Listen, save yourself and do something else. Accounting, software engineering, become an actuary. Trust me.

NAPLEX is a stupid test. You honestly just need a week or so of calculation review. Maybe even less time. I don't know how these kids are failing.

 

[priyankathaker8]

Listen, save yourself and do something else. Accounting, software engineering, become an actuary. Trust me.

NAPLEX is a stupid test. You honestly just need a week or so of calculation review. Maybe even less time. I don't know how these kids are failing.

I can't do something else. This is what I want to do but its a shame that pharmacy is being given such a bad name now because of how low the standards are of these schools -_-

 

[VeeSee]

I can't do something else. This is what I want to do but its a shame that pharmacy is being given such a bad name now because of how low the standards are of these schools -_-

You are likely confused and want to become a pharmacologist or medicinal chemist

A pharmacist in today's world is just a dispensing machine. Chain pharmacies are nothing more than dispensaries.

You will just be a license on the wall

 

[priyankathaker8]

You are likely confused and want to become a pharmacologist or medicinal chemist

A pharmacist in today's world is just a dispensing machine. Chain pharmacies are nothing more than dispensaries.

You will just be a license on the wall

Thanks for telling me what I am and what I'm not but no not confused

 

[gwarm01]

Thanks for telling me what I am and what I'm not but no not confused

When is your graduation date? I've seen you around here, but only recently so I assume you are a P1. Can't wait to hear the cynicism once you get about two years out of school. One of us, one of us!

 

[priyankathaker8]

When is your graduation date? I've seen you around here, but only recently so I assume you are a P1. Can't wait to hear the cynicism once you get about two years out of school. One of us, one of us!

I am starting in August........ I hope my mind doesn't change about the pharmacy field when I start. Graduating in 2019

 

[gwarm01]

I am starting in August........ I hope my mind doesn't change about the pharmacy field when I start. Graduating in 2019

Don't worry, turning into a bitter and hollow shell of your former self is just part of getting older.

Seriously, do yourself a favor and get a job while in school. Everyone talks about differentiating themselves by doing volunteer work, research, joining professional organizations and whatnot, but having a solid three to four years of technician or internship (if you live in an area that will pay you) in the appropriate setting is invaluable for so many reasons.

 

[priyankathaker8]

Don't worry, turning into a bitter and hollow shell of your former self is just part of getting older.

Seriously, do yourself a favor and get a job while in school. Everyone talks about differentiating themselves by doing volunteer work, research, joining professional organizations and whatnot, but having a solid three to four years of technician or internship (if you live in an area that will pay you) in the appropriate setting is invaluable for so many reasons.

LOL I love your honesty. Thanks for the advice though, I plan on getting a job so at least some hospital/company will pity me and then hire me -.-

 

[pharmacist_retail]

NAPLEX is a minimum competency test. They have some hard questions, but if you fail the NAPLEX, I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be a licensed pharmacist. After taking the test, I thought I failed it. I ended up with a 115. I think the majority of the weight falls on the math questions. I know for sure I got all of those questions correct.

 

[jmcmans1]

I wonder if the new NAPLEX format will decrease scores even further for 2016. All I've heard about it is that it's more questions and it may have a higher percentage of "choose all that apply" questions.

Anyone heard about it?

Our program is TERRIFIED of this change. They bought rx prep books/program for everyone in our 2016 class and are making it mandatory. I'm wondering how they are going to implement the "choose all that apply"...dont they test/validate the questions prior to utilizing them as actual scored questions? If that's the case are all "all that apply" questions ones that wont technically count?

 

[TheBlaah]

Our program is TERRIFIED of this change. They bought rx prep books/program for everyone in our 2016 class and are making it mandatory. I'm wondering how they are going to implement the "choose all that apply"...dont they test/validate the questions prior to utilizing them as actual scored questions? If that's the case are all "all that apply" questions ones that wont technically count?

They tested those questions in the previous years. There'll still be test questions, but just because it's choose all that apply doesn't mean it's a testing question.