National Average Salary?

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Chimed

Chimed

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Hi,

I'm applying for positions right now and I've heard potential employers speak about using "national and local averages" when they calculate a starting salary. Is anyone familiar with where they might get that data from? I'm not looking to start another salary thread, just looking for the most accurate data to give me an idea of what kind of numbers they're looking at.

Thanks!
 
Chimed said:
Hi,

I'm applying for positions right now and I've heard potential employers speak about using "national and local averages" when they calculate a starting salary. Is anyone familiar with where they might get that data from? I'm not looking to start another salary thread, just looking for the most accurate data to give me an idea of what kind of numbers they're looking at.

Thanks!
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It's mentioned in the presentation F0nzie linked to but the most common survey used seems to be the MGMA compensation survey. They cost money to view but if you still have access to a medical library sometimes they have copies available that you can review. I've seen parts of them posted on SDN from time to time as well so you might be able to search for some older ones.
 
Why do people always dodge questions like this.
 
EMDO2018 said:
Why do people always dodge questions like this.
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Because there's no simple answer, since all of the data are unreliable and widely varied. There are several resources that compare salaries, and that's probably the closest thing you can get to a reasonable comparison, since they presumably use the same measurement techniques for different specialties. But the studies are still biased by the fact that you'd expect different response rates from people who work in different practice settings.
 
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IamPsychiatrist said:
I always thought that Psych was pretty high hourly. This one has it at the lowest hourly.

How did they calculate the average hrs worked by psych combined with the MGMA survey? To my understanding, MGMA never polls on hours worked - or do they?
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The rate mentioned in the powerpoint seems pretty high to me. How much were you thinking was the hourly rate for psychiatrists?
 
Tza said:
The rate mentioned in the powerpoint seems pretty high to me. How much were you thinking was the hourly rate for psychiatrists?
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I guess the median salary hourly rate is $116 according to their hourly wages data. (1767 hr per year).

I always here them saying on here that Psychiatry is among the best in hourly wages - $116 isn't even close to the best. I've heard residents earning that moonlighting. Also, many EM physicians earn over $200 hr. I don't really care that much, I was just curious because I always hear them say the hourly earnings for psych is pretty competitive (i.e. here it is lower than neurology, OB/GYN, Rheum, etc.)
 
IamPsychiatrist said:
I guess the median salary hourly rate is $116 according to their hourly wages data. (1767 hr per year).

I always here them saying on here that Psychiatry is among the best in hourly wages - $116 isn't even close to the best. I've heard residents earning that moonlighting. Also, many EM physicians earn over $200 hr. I don't really care that much, I was just curious because I always hear them say the hourly earnings for psych is pretty competitive (i.e. here it is lower than neurology, OB/GYN, Rheum, etc.)
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Agreed, unless that $116 per hour is not including GREAT benefits.

As a resident, $116/hour is even too low as a contractor.
 
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The hourly rate in psych must be pretty high. My moonlighting rate as a PGY2 is nearly $100/hr, and I have been propositioned by headhunters for inpatient unit jobs that start around $200 on up. The PP psychiatrist I am close to charges $300/hr. So I don't believe the $116. I'm making close to that already as a resident (in fact I earned over $5000 in moonlighting this month alone - on top of my base).
 
Leo Aquarius said:
The hourly rate in psych must be pretty high. My moonlighting rate as a PGY2 is nearly $100/hr, and I have been propositioned by headhunters for inpatient unit jobs that start around $200 on up. The PP psychiatrist I am close to charges $300/hr. So I don't believe the $116. I'm making close to that already as a resident (in fact I earned over $5000 in moonlighting this month alone - on top of my base).
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That sounds about right. At least in California.
 
Thanks, everyone! To complicate things, I'm looking at a child position, but those numbers give me something to look and consider. Perhaps I can re-post when I get an offer to see how close it is to these numbers.
 
MGMA for C&A was about the same for General/Adult Psych - I believe Gero was a bit more. I suspect this was due to cut backs on Medicaid program reimbursements and increases in Medicare payments.
 
Shikima said:
MGMA for C&A was about the same for General/Adult Psych - I believe Gero was a bit more. I suspect this was due to cut backs on Medicaid program reimbursements and increases in Medicare payments.
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Might be true, but there could be a lot of reasons for the salaries being close. At least for one of the positions I'm applying for, they will offer more just because I have that fellowship.
 
So what's the deal with C&A? Everywhere I turn I hear about the grave shortage, cash environment (name your price), and the opportunity to make bank, yet whenever it comes to actual earning figures they're consistently less than impressive...
 
Fabio001 said:
So what's the deal with C&A? Everywhere I turn I hear about the grave shortage, cash environment (name your price), and the opportunity to make bank, yet whenever it comes to actual earning figures they're consistently less than impressive...
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At employed gigs, there isn't a big difference. Private practices can command large hourly rates due to the shortage though.
 
How is it that the reimbursement system doesn't place appropriate value on an extra two years of training in this instance?
 
Jack Napier said:
Has the forensics fellowship added any value?
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Not sure yet. Probably not in regards to looking for straight clinic gigs. I've also decided not to go a private practice route (although that could change), so I'll be losing that advantage. Personally, the value of the fellowship is having more opportunities now and in the future. Even if I don't get a forensic gig right now, I'm still glad I'm doing it and would still do it if given the option to repeat the year.
 
Fabio001 said:
How is it that the reimbursement system doesn't place appropriate value on an extra two years of training in this instance?
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well it isn't two extra years. It's one. And that can be said for a lot of different things in health care which require extra training. I don't see kids, but I really don't see any reason why a child psych should get paid more for a med mgt visit with an adhd kid than I should for a med mgt visit with an MDD adult. One doesn't seem harder than the other, or require more work.
 
vistaril said:
well it isn't two extra years. It's one. And that can be said for a lot of different things in health care which require extra training. I don't see kids, but I really don't see any reason why a child psych should get paid more for a med mgt visit with an adhd kid than I should for a med mgt visit with an MDD adult. One doesn't seem harder than the other, or require more work.
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Dealing with difficult parents who often have pathology as well, having to see both the kid and the parent separately during the visit, having to call the school, giving behavioral management advice, doing family therapy.....It requires more work.
 
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There's a lot more time devoted to each session outside of the contact hour as well. God bless the child people, boy...
 
Here is a nice breakdown by State with data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

http://media.medjobnetwork.com/content/Psych_comp.html?appSession=56126600962131

Good info to know when you are negotiating with employers. Start asking for 10k higher than the mean because they would love to get you 10k lower.

If you are getting offers that are substantially higher you are dealing with a shortage area or you should be very afraid...

And...stay away from Utah!
 
TexasPhysician said:
What is with Utah?
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ImageUploadedBySDN Mobile1393000872.150607.jpg


The far right column that is cut off is median income.
 
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Doctor Bagel said:
I've heard dentistry is especially hard in Utah because so many LDS men do dentistry for various cultural reasons, and they also want to stay in Utah. I'm wondering if the same thing is true with medicine.
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the state hospitals in Utah pay very well relative to most other states.
 
F0nzie said:
And...stay away from Utah!
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Yes, everyone stay away from Utah or the Salt Lake Valley. The smog is bad enough as it is. 😀

Those numbers are pretty bogus though. It's a lower paying state in general and low for most medical specialties but not for psych/C&A. Must have a lot of part timers in that data or something.
 
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