Navy Admirals

[Portier]

I noticed today as I perused the Admiral Biographies (medical corps types) that few were ever Enlisted (2).

Fewer were DO's (1: Ben Gaumer, DO)....

What does this mean?

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[Apollyon]

Can't tell you about DO's, but that Medical Corps admirals were not enlisted is logical - MC, JAG, Dental Corps, Nurse Corps, MSC (Medical Service Corps), Supply, Civil Engineer Corps - these are all "Staff Corps"; they keep the line (the war fighters) fighting. They don't need to be war fighters, and, as such, have entered directly from professional school. Some soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines are motivated to attend college and seek an officer's billet as a "staff puke", but most are not prior service ("mustangs" - enlisted that become officers).

In the US Navy, you can look at the epaulets (on the shoulders), on the wrist on the Service Dress Blues, or on the collar inginia in the summer khaki uniform. A line officer will have a star above/medial to the rank insignia (stripes and half stripes), and two of the rank insignia on the collar. Staff officers will have their staff insignia (JAG millrind, gold oakleaf for medical, and so on) on the sleeve or epaulet, and on the left collar of the khaki (with the rank insignia on the right only).

edit: I forgot the Chaplain Corps, too. This is a listing of staff corps insignia.

 

[Portier]

Click my homepage link for fun military pics.

I was a Navy Corpsman for 10 years before DO school.

I was just hoping that I was wrong....that there wasn't a glass ceiling for Mustang Medical Officers.

 

[Apollyon]

Click my homepage link for fun military pics.

I was a Navy Corpsman for 10 years before DO school.

I was just hoping that I was wrong....that there wasn't a glass ceiling for Mustang Medical Officers.

Hell, then you knew the answer before I did! My whole friggin' lesson was a retread!

If you notice, also, the Medical Officer of the Marine Corps, and the Marine Corps Chaplain are both US Navy Rear Admirals that wear the USMC uniform.

 

[Apollyon]

Click my homepage link for fun military pics.

P4225318.jpg

Cool pics! That guy above must be a mustang, being an ensign with that fruit salad on his chest. I can't see from the resolution whether there's a Good Conduct medal in there (although I can make out the National Defense Service medal with a cluster), though. Or is that you?

 

[GMO2003]

Click my homepage link for fun military pics.

I was a Navy Corpsman for 10 years before DO school.

I was just hoping that I was wrong....that there wasn't a glass ceiling for Mustang Medical Officers.

whoa..please hook me up with the smokin exotic looking woman from your clive at 5 pic section...GMO2003 out

 

[Portier]

P4225318.jpg

Cool pics! That guy above must be a mustang, being an ensign with that fruit salad on his chest. I can't see from the resolution whether there's a Good Conduct medal in there (although I can make out the National Defense Service medal with a cluster), though. Or is that you?

That's me....they're all listed on my resume (which is up there, too)

The exotic looking chick is a 3rd year now....Has anyone else found that the dating posibilities with female medical students isn't stellar? (this may be true from the other perspective as well, but I'm a guy)

On topic: I had Captain Lockhart, MSC (42 years of service, and former HMC) as my CO twice in my 10 year stint....there was scuttlebutt about how he couldn't make Admiral because he'd been enlisted. Was that just more ricky rumor?

 

[Docgeorge]

P4225318.jpg

Cool pics! That guy above must be a mustang, being an ensign with that fruit salad on his chest. I can't see from the resolution whether there's a Good Conduct medal in there (although I can make out the National Defense Service medal with a cluster), though. Or is that you?

Dont five Frenchie too much credit...He got the NDS for passing three conceutive short arm inspections.

It would have been 4 had it not been for that night with the "beared lady" from sherveport.

 

[Teufelhunden]

Portier,

Wow, we have a lot in common...Camp Lejeune...UNF...Navy HPSP...Osteopathic med school.

I was a Marine at Lejeune from 89-95, I graduated from UNF in 2001, and just graduated from OUCOM and am now an intern at NMCP.

Anyway, it was kinda cool to see your site, and that our "roots" are similar.

 

[jetproppilot]

P4225318.jpg

Cool pics! That guy above must be a mustang, being an ensign with that fruit salad on his chest. I can't see from the resolution whether there's a Good Conduct medal in there (although I can make out the National Defense Service medal with a cluster), though. Or is that you?

WHAT IS IT WITH YOU MILITARY DUDES AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE INSIGNIAS ON YOUR UNIFORMS?

I'm a civilian anesthesiologist always searching for the holy grail of superior patient outcome, OR efficiency, and subordinate job satisfaction. Our practice strives for those objectives on a daily basis. If you military guys would stop worrying about the medals adorn on your scrubs, you might see the light, and recognize that its not about the medals on your uniform, its about patient safety, OR efficiency, and MD/ancillary staff satisfaction.

Stop looking at your rank/medals on your chest, and you may be able to ressurect third world country military medicine. Get a fu^^ing life beyond the rank.

Think you guys can compete with civilian patient satisfaction/safety/subordinate job satisfaction/ MD satisfaction?

NOT A *****NG CHANCE.

 

[Globus P]

WHAT IS IT WITH YOU MILITARY DUDES AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE INSIGNIAS ON YOUR UNIFORMS?

I'm a civilian anesthesiologist always searching for the holy grail of superior patient outcome, OR efficiency, and subordinate job satisfaction. Our practice strives for those objectives on a daily basis. If you military guys would stop worrying about the medals adorn on your scrubs, you might see the light, and recognize that its not about the medals on your uniform, its about patient safety, OR efficiency, and MD/ancillary staff satisfaction.

Stop looking at your rank/medals on your chest, and you may be able to ressurect third world country military medicine. Get a fu^^ing life beyond the rank.

Think you guys can compete with civilian patient satisfaction/safety/subordinate job satisfaction/ MD satisfaction?

NOT A *****NG CHANCE.

Medals and ribbons in the medical corps mean very little, for the reasons you stated above.....patient care is paramount. But for those in other military occupations, medals and ribbons are very important. They serve as a walking resume for an individual's experiences and expertise. One look at one's uniform and you can see that person has "been there, done that" or hasn't. It's that simple.

The military doesn't get paid enough to do what is ask to do. We all know that, our Commanders and senior leadership know that...our bosses can't give us spot raises or promotions as in the civilian world, but they can give medals and liberty chits. Medals and ribbons are the one way to show acheivement, appreciation, and gratitude.

Also, medals and ribbons serve as points for the enlisted troops toward promotion. Not only do they signify a "job well done" but they can indirectly put money in one's pocket too.

If you've never been in the military or haven't been on the operational side of the military, it would be tough to understand the significance. It's part of the military cultural.

Have you been in the military, jetproppilot?

 

[MoosePilot]

WHAT IS IT WITH YOU MILITARY DUDES AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE INSIGNIAS ON YOUR UNIFORMS?

I'm a civilian anesthesiologist always searching for the holy grail of superior patient outcome, OR efficiency, and subordinate job satisfaction. Our practice strives for those objectives on a daily basis. If you military guys would stop worrying about the medals adorn on your scrubs, you might see the light, and recognize that its not about the medals on your uniform, its about patient safety, OR efficiency, and MD/ancillary staff satisfaction.

Stop looking at your rank/medals on your chest, and you may be able to ressurect third world country military medicine. Get a fu^^ing life beyond the rank.

Think you guys can compete with civilian patient satisfaction/safety/subordinate job satisfaction/ MD satisfaction?

NOT A *****NG CHANCE.

Yes, because it's definitely either/or. All the time that goes into keeping the ribbons on my chest all neat and proper definitely detracts from my flying skills. I don't know how I'll get through med school with that kind of burden

Do you iron your pants? The horror!!

 

[militarymd]

If the ribbons signify a job well done, then how come all the Cowmander nurses who don't know a thing about being nurse, and are obstructionistic, has a bizzillion more ribbons and medals than me when I know how to be a doctor?????

 

[helo doc]

WHAT IS IT WITH YOU MILITARY DUDES AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE INSIGNIAS ON YOUR UNIFORMS?

I'm a civilian anesthesiologist always searching for the holy grail of superior patient outcome, OR efficiency, and subordinate job satisfaction. Our practice strives for those objectives on a daily basis. If you military guys would stop worrying about the medals adorn on your scrubs, you might see the light, and recognize that its not about the medals on your uniform, its about patient safety, OR efficiency, and MD/ancillary staff satisfaction.

Stop looking at your rank/medals on your chest, and you may be able to ressurect third world country military medicine. Get a fu^^ing life beyond the rank.

Think you guys can compete with civilian patient satisfaction/safety/subordinate job satisfaction/ MD satisfaction?

NOT A *****NG CHANCE.

Holy fecal material!! Where in the world did that come from? And why? Just because the original poster isn't dreaming up a new soon-to-be FDA approved device for saving lives and increasing OR efficiency doesn't mean that he isn't worthy to be proud of his accomplishments. To quote Sergeant Hulka, the drill instructor from the movie "Stripes"... "Lighten up, Frances." (Come on, you remember - "My name is Frances, but my friends call me psycho. Call me Frances and I'll kill you. Touch my stuff, and I'll kill you. And any of you homos get any ideas... I'll kill you.")

Isn't it interesting how the most benign of threads can be turned into a nidus of cynicism and bitterness by the time it is a few posts old. I wouldn't say these folks are the "glass is half empty or full" types, but instead more of the "glass is broken into shards that will in all likelihood cause arterial damage and massive hemorrhaging" types.

Anyhow, back to the original reason for the posting. The reason you don't often see priors put on a star is just a matter of time in service (especially in the medical corps). By the time most folks with 4-8 yrs prior service finish med school and eventually get promoted to O-6 (not easy, btw), they are at about 25 yrs of service or so. In order for them to meet all the wickets to pick up that star, they are usually pushing mandatory retirement.

 

[MoosePilot]

If the ribbons signify a job well done, then how come all the Cowmander nurses who don't know a thing about being nurse, and are obstructionistic, has a bizzillion more ribbons and medals than me when I know how to be a doctor?????

Now is this one feedback or is this one grousing?

"Cowmander"...

 

[Globus P]

If the ribbons signify a job well done, then how come all the Cowmander nurses who don't know a thing about being nurse, and are obstructionistic, has a bizzillion more ribbons and medals than me when I know how to be a doctor?????

I know what you mean. We always wondered why the admin chief had more ribbons than the flight deck chief (the guy that actually worked his butt off and made a difference - launching jets instead of pushing paper).

There are indeed some abuses and injustices regarding who gets the medal recognition.

Lastly, although one's chest reads like an instant resume/CV, but that impressive rack can be quickly negated at the first moment of displayed incompetency, as with your example above.

 

[Trajan]

Does anyone know how common it is to see medical officers with decorations for valor? (e.g. Medal of Honor, Navy Cross/DSC/AFC, Silver Star, DFC, Bronze Star, Navy and Marine Corps Medal/Soldiers Medal, Purple Heart, etc.). If it's not common (and I suspect that it is not), would earning a Navy Cross or Silver Star put you on track to a star, or two, or three (assuming you were also willing to be an administrator)? Or does it make little difference in the Medical Corps?

It seems like many medals are for administration (often described as "leadership") which would explain why paper pushers have more ribbons on their chests than the guys doing real work. My perception is that you don't get the Legion of Merit for being a good anesthesiologist, but you might get one for commanding a hospital, fair or not.

What do the guys with experience think?

 

[militarymd]

One of my former residents received a Navy/marine corp medal for saving some guys life......His father in law is a retired Vice Admiral.....Coincidence??

Anyways, how would a medical officer ever get a medal for valor in combat? We don't go into combat, but we (or I did) save lives on a routine basis....that's our (or my) job.

Bottom line...ribbons mean nothing to physicians who want to be physicians....If you want to impress a Cowmander, then put yourself in (and that's how you get them) for all the medals you can get.

 

[edinOH]

One of my former residents received a Navy/marine corp medal for saving some guys life......His father in law is a retired Vice Admiral.....Coincidence??

Anyways, how would a medical officer ever get a medal for valor in combat? We don't go into combat, but we (or I did) save lives on a routine basis....that's our (or my) job.

Bottom line...ribbons mean nothing to physicians who want to be physicians....If you want to impress a Cowmander, then put yourself in (and that's how you get them) for all the medals you can get.

When I was in the Navy I knew a SAR corpsman who liked to put himself in for medals everytime he flew up into the Sierras to pick up some stranded hikers. Alot of us thought that was pretty pathetic.

He's probably a Chief Petty Officer now drinking coffee for a living.

 

[Trajan]

Anyways, how would a medical officer ever get a medal for valor in combat? We don't go into combat, but we (or I did) save lives on a routine basis....that's our (or my) job.

MilitaryMD: I don't know quite what to make of this post. You've claimed to be the expert on the drawbacks of military medicine so many times, and then you make a claim like this. Two EM physicians from my medical school's faculty are reservists who went to Iraq (one Army, one with the FMF). Both went out on operations, and both were shot at on multiple occasions. Neither liked going to war, but both seem proud of their work in Iraq and proud of their association with military medicine. I'm also aware of one Army general surgeon who was killed in Iraq and know of two Navy medical officers who were wounded. This is a very serious consideration for someone considering HPSP or USUHS given the state of world affairs. You have repeatedly described military medicine as a scrap heap under the pretense of educating (or scaring away) prospective HPSP applicants and then go and say in the same forum that military doctors don't go into combat. Even my recruiter explained that Navy doctors could find themselves in danger in a war zone.

Funny that doctors coming back from the misery of the Iraq War can find good in military medicine, yet your years in during peacetime left you with only bitterness. I'm sorry you have regrets, but lets face it, those doctors doing multiple deployments to Iraq got a much worse deal than you did, nor did they expect that fate when they signed, yet I don't see them posting tirades against Navy medicine to prospective HPSP applicants, some of whom do actually want to be officers and doctors.

To all others: did some research and found that seven medical and dental officers have received the Medal of Honor, most in WWI, and one, a dentist, was cited posthumously in WWII. These citatrions are remarkable. A few doctors also earned the Navy Cross and Silver Star in Vietnam. Hospitalmen receive these honors far more often, but the ones I know who went to Vietnam are just happy to be alive with or without any medals. God bless them.

 

[militarymd]

Two EM physicians from my medical school's faculty are reservists who went to Iraq (one Army, one with the FMF). Both went out on operations, and both were shot at on multiple occasions. Neither liked going to war, but both seem proud of their work in Iraq and proud of their association with military medicine. I'm also aware of one Army general surgeon who was killed in Iraq and know of two Navy medical officers who were wounded

That's the difference between you and me. I'm telling folks about the big picture. You are talking about exceptions...the TV/glamour stuff. A good friend of mine was in Iraq when I was there....he was shot at....The devil Docs on CNN were friends of mine that I worked with on a daily basis back home (they're out, by the way). Another good friend of mine is going to the Sunni Triangle next week.

I know what is going on. I spent my time there 2 years ago, and I/WE were all extremely proud of the lives that we saved over there.....

but you know what....THAT is not what most of military medicine is about. Don't read my posts....Stop posting to me.... 10 years from now tell me what you think of military medicine.


Oh, by the way, as reservists....your little friends don't deal with the BS 99% of the time, and as faulty at an academic department...they don't have to worry about losing their practice....and frequently...academic departments will continue to pay you in your absence if activated...so you get to "double dip"...very different from private practice.

 

[Thousandth]

I know what you mean. We always wondered why the admin chief had more ribbons than the flight deck chief (the guy that actually worked his butt off and made a difference - launching jets instead of pushing paper).

There are indeed some abuses and injustices regarding who gets the medal recognition.

Lastly, although one's chest reads like an instant resume/CV, but that impressive rack can be quickly negated at the first moment of displayed incompetency, as with your example above.

As the old adage goes "It's not what you know, it's who you bl0W"