Navy HPSP Question

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ejjman

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Okay, so I'm in my first year of medical school and I'm considering the Navy HPSP. My long-time girlfriend (prolly soon to be fiancee) will be graduating from law school at the end of my second year. Together we will have a combined $290k in loans. Whereas if I took the HPSP it would be somewhere closer to $190k (I'm at a state school, she isn't). IF I did take the scholarship then I would try and go to Bethesda or Portsmouth for my internship (maybe surgery, too soon to tell) and stay there for my residency. That way she could take the Virginia bar ahead of time and we could live together in overly career oriented bliss (we're long distance right now). Following residency I would do my four years and then say goodbye to the Navy and everyone would be happy. This is my ideal situation. I guess my question is, is this possible? Could I be reasonably sure to get Bethesda or Portsmouth? I know GMO tours are supposedly being phased out but I just worry that I go through internship and don't get the residency I want, am I SOL then?

Also, is it worth it? Is the military scholarship worth the grief that everyone posting here seems to be dealing with?


I know that's alot but if anyone could give me any answers I would be really grateful.
 
Okay, so I'm in my first year of medical school and I'm considering the Navy HPSP. My long-time girlfriend (prolly soon to be fiancee) will be graduating from law school at the end of my second year. Together we will have a combined $290k in loans. Whereas if I took the HPSP it would be somewhere closer to $190k (I'm at a state school, she isn't). IF I did take the scholarship then I would try and go to Bethesda or Portsmouth for my internship (maybe surgery, too soon to tell) and stay there for my residency. That way she could take the Virginia bar ahead of time and we could live together in overly career oriented bliss (we're long distance right now). Following residency I would do my four years and then say goodbye to the Navy and everyone would be happy. This is my ideal situation. I guess my question is, is this possible? Could I be reasonably sure to get Bethesda or Portsmouth? I know GMO tours are supposedly being phased out but I just worry that I go through internship and don't get the residency I want, am I SOL then?

Also, is it worth it? Is the military scholarship worth the grief that everyone posting here seems to be dealing with?


I know that's alot but if anyone could give me any answers I would be really grateful.

If you are doing it purely for the money, no. If you have a desire to serve and can be flexible in your plans? Yes.

Your basic plan is sound, there are plenty of training opportunities for you that would allow your future spouse to apply her trade in a single state. (I know Virginia is a Commonwealth.) Portsmouth would be better for stability, going on the idea that should you have to do a GMO tour there are opportunities. When you graduate from internship, I would expect there to be significant opportunities for straight through training.

Have a long talk with your potential future spouse. She needs to be onboard with this decision, or it could be a relationship breaker.
 
Oh, she is. We spent the last two weeks discussing all of the possibilities. Thank you!
 
If you added up all the money would you come out ahead if you did the FAP program? I think you could net more than 100k through FAP.

I have two thoughts-
1. Could you handle geographic separation from your significant other for 1 or 2 years? What if you had to do a 1 or 2 year GMO tour?

2. What happens if you received orders at an overseas duty station for your first tour? I know a female physician who has a civilian attorney husband. He can't work overseas because of licensing/international law issues. He is a stay at home dad and volunteers at the family readiness group. (He is flexible and enjoys doing this BTW)
 
If you added up all the money would you come out ahead if you did the FAP program? I think you could net more than 100k through FAP.

I have two thoughts-
1. Could you handle geographic separation from your significant other for 1 or 2 years? What if you had to do a 1 or 2 year GMO tour?

2. What happens if you received orders at an overseas duty station for your first tour? I know a female physician who has a civilian attorney husband. He can't work overseas because of licensing/international law issues. He is a stay at home dad and volunteers at the family readiness group. (He is flexible and enjoys doing this BTW)


1. We're already going to have to do long distance for 5 years (1,000 miles of long distance) and I don't think either of us want to do it for any longer. I know this is selfish but in light of all the recent news about GMO tours, I would really want to do straight through training. I just wish someone could give me a guarantee, though I realize the probability of that is slim to none.

2. She actually wouldn't mind going overseas. We figured that by the point I'm out of residency, we would be ready to have kids and she could take that time off before we come back and decide where we want to live.

It's a beautiful plan but there just seems to be too many variables. Don't get me wrong I want to serve my country (every male in my family has served at some point in their lives) and I'm flexible to an extent, but leaving my career almost entirely in the hands of the Navy may be a bit much.
 
Well from a purely financial standpoint you're in a pretty terrible position for HPSP:

1) You're at a cheap state school, and you've already finished a year of it.

2) You want to do a surgury rotation, which means at least 4 years of commitment even though you only did the 3 years of HPSP.

3) You want to be a surgeon, which means you're going to be losing money each year you're an attending

At its best HPSP can be a financial gain of about 320K by the time you finish medical school, which might be a good or at least neutral deal depending on your residency. You, however, are only going to get less than half of that: not a good financial deal.

Go with FAP, if anything.
 
Well from a purely financial standpoint you're in a pretty terrible position for HPSP:

1) You're at a cheap state school, and you've already finished a year of it.

2) You want to do a surgury rotation, which means at least 4 years of commitment even though you only did the 3 years of HPSP.

3) You want to be a surgeon, which means you're going to be losing money each year you're an attending

At its best HPSP can be a financial gain of about 320K by the time you finish medical school, which might be a good or at least neutral deal depending on your residency. You, however, are only going to get less than half of that: not a good financial deal.

Go with FAP, if anything.


Fair enough. Any idea where I can find info on the FAP? I tried looking it up but only found: http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/pages/nmetc/fap/index.htm. This doesn't really have any specifics. Thanks!
 
I applied to the HPSP for the Navy, have been accepted...but I'm still a little concerned about the GMO issue. I just read a report that says the Navy plans to phase out GMOs completely by 2012, guaranteeing no interruption in medical training. How true is this?

Say the GMO is still alive in 2012 (I will finish med school in 2012), and I DO NOT get a military residency...what does that mean?

How can I up my chances of getting a military residency?
 
From another HPSP hopeful:

I applied to the HPSP for the Navy, have been accepted...but I'm still a little concerned about the GMO issue. I just read a report that says the Navy plans to phase out GMOs completely by 2012, guaranteeing no interruption in medical training. How true is this?
As true as they want it to be. They seem to honestly believe this is the plan, but it is in no way a guarentee and no one (probably including them) has any idea if they're going to follow through. I'd guess that the number of GMO tours will at least go down by 2012, even if they don't disappear.

Say the GMO is still alive in 2012 (I will finish med school in 2012), and I DO NOT get a military residency...what does that mean?
Means you do 1 year of internship, then get a GMO tour. After a year of GMO tour you can either reapply for a residency (which you now have an improved but in no way definite chance of getting) or spend more time as a GMO. Worst case scenario is that you spend all 4 years of your obligation at a GMO and then have to restart your residency after that.

How can I up my chances of getting a military residency?
Get good grades, do well on the step 1s, choose a less competitive residency, and most of all do your ADTs and impress everyone while you're there.
 
Thanks, that was very helpful. I guess I still need clarification on some things. If I do have to spend time as a GMO, that will reduce the number of years I am required to serve once I complete my residency? So, say I serve a year as a GMO and then get a residency...I will only owe three years after my residency?

You would think my recruiter would have explained this to me...probably a sore subject for them.
 
Thanks, that was very helpful. I guess I still need clarification on some things. If I do have to spend time as a GMO, that will reduce the number of years I am required to serve once I complete my residency? So, say I serve a year as a GMO and then get a residency...I will only owe three years after my residency?

You would think my recruiter would have explained this to me...probably a sore subject for them.

You do owe year for year for PGY2 and beyond. If you do Gen Surg, you would owe 4 after residency.
 
When I was applying to medical school in 1998 (after serving 5 years as a corpsman) I was assured that they were phasing out the GMO and that there was "no way" I would be expected to do one "if I didn't want to" after I graduated in 2003.

Glad to see the recruiter knew what he was talking about.🙄
 
Thanks, that was very helpful. I guess I still need clarification on some things. If I do have to spend time as a GMO, that will reduce the number of years I am required to serve once I complete my residency? So, say I serve a year as a GMO and then get a residency...I will only owe three years after my residency?

The time you owe = the time you spent in residency, not counting your internship year, starting from the end of residency. So if you do a 4 year scholarship, then a 1 year internship, then 2 years GMO you're down to two years of obligation, right? Well now you do a residency. If that residency is IM you do two more years of residency, and at the end of the residnecy you owe: 2 years. If the residency is surgury you do 4 years of residency and at the end of the residency you owe: 4 years. So the longer the residency you choose, the more the GMO tour screws you. Clear as mud?
 
Hi all, I am 4th yr med student applying to civilian residencies now considering signing up for FAP after I match. My question is from anyone in the service if when it comes time to rank where I want to go is it competive or hard to get San Diego as my top place to live? I don't want to live in Norfolk for 4yrs. Anyone with any experience with this? tks.
 
I am submitting this in hopes that it will answer some questions being asked about the Navy and the HPSP program. Forgive the length of this entry, but I wanted to be thorough and make sure that people understood my reasoning behind my opinions
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I enlisted in the Navy in 1994 as a Hospital Corpsman. After boot camp I attended a 3 month long Corpsman training in Great Lakes. IL. I graduated at the top of my class and elected to attend one year of Advance Laboratory School in San Antonio, TX. My first actual duty location was Navy Medical Center, San Diego. I spent the first 6 months working as a phlebotomist and then spent my final 1.5 years there working in Clinical Microbiology Department (my favorite job to date). I was then transferred to Naval Hospital, Lemoore were I finished my 5 year obligation working as both a Laboratory Technician and a Hospital Corpsman. I was discharged in July 1999, where I told myself I would never again volunteer myself.

However, after spending 5 years on active duty and then separating from the military lifestyle, I was like many people, who after discharge, found themselves missing many aspects of the military. Approximately a year after separation, I was raising my right hand for the Air National Guard. Furthermore, after a year in the Guard, my wife had graduated from college and was working as a social worker. We had bought a home, and to make very long story short, circumstances led me to forgo my dream of becoming a physician and I switch to the Civil Engineering Program at California State University, Fresno. Again, I came face to face with a Navy recruiter. This time it was for a Civil Engineer Corps Scholarship, which placed me on active duty. My only job was to attend school, and the pay back was only four years….what a deal!

I am currently a Lieutenant, finishing up the last three months of that commitment and will resign my commission in May 2008. I will then take a couple of months off before heading to VCOM in July.

Now that I have given some of my history I would like to share my opinions about the Navy to those who are trying to determine whether or not Navy HPSP is for them. I believe there is more aspects of the Navy, or any other branch of service, that must be taken into consider before taking the oath.

The first thing I think must be addressed is that you will be in the military and you loose some control over your life. You will be an doctor and a military officer, but that doesn’t mean you are exempt from military rules or customs. In a post I recently read, a person was upset that in the military they were considered and officer first and then a doctor. The person whom posted strongly disagreed with this quote because he/she thought the 7 years of training received as a doctor far out weighed the 6 weeks of OIS. I could see the logic, but this is the military and they strongly believe in their slogans and they don’t really care what you think about it. I see this everyday as a Civil Engineer Corps Officer. We are required to stand Command Duty Officer (CDO), which is a 24 hour watch where you are in charge of the base while the Commanding Officer (CO) is away. This watch (I could debate whether it is truly needed) severely impacts our abilities to manage our construction contracts efficiently. We address this issue often, and are told our Navy duties come before our actually engineering duties. We also have Wardroom events (which we call mandatory fun) and Physical Training, which also impact our daily jobs, but again it doesn’t matter. I could go on and on with examples, but I am already getting wordy.

This being said, I can say that I would not change a thing about my past 12 years in the Navy. The Navy, from day one (boot camp) and still today, continues to provide the tools necessary to grow as a person, both professionally and personally. The Navy has taught me most of the things I know about medicine and engineering, but most of all it has taught me how to be a leader. At the age of 19, I had responsibilities that I never dreamed of. Every week in the microbiology department I was placed in charge of a microbiology bench (respiratory, urinalysis, ext). Here I was responsible for not only every report generated at the bench, but responsible for teaching new laboratory students all about clinical microbiology. It did not stop there. After graduating from college and OCS, I was immediately place in charge of 20 personnel and a $30 million Base Operating Support Contract. Then after only 2 years of experience I was placed in charge of a four man team and over $110 million dollars in construction contracts. As I finish up my time and reflect on the leadership experiences which have been presented to me, I realize that no where in the civilian sector would I have been given this amount of responsibility or the opportunity to lead so quickly. The Navy does not dink around with you. They not only give you immediate and serious responsibilities, they have a steep learning curve for almost any job, and you are expected to adapt to the curve, learn quickly and perform immediately.
The most enjoyable aspect of military life is not the job or places you live, it is the comradeship that you encounter. In my opinion, there is no other profession organization in which you can encounter such camaraderie the instant you check into a command and begin working. I met my best friend in 1997 when I was transferred to Lemoore, he now lives in Indiana and I am in Bremerton, WA. We don’t get to see each other as often as we would like, but our families are very close and we talk to each other several times a month. I have continued to establish valuable relationship every where I go and now have friends all over the United States…what a great feeling!

With all this said, am I signing up for HPSP and staying in the Navy? No. The reason are simple for me. I am not making this decision based on the direction of Navy Medicine or the amount of money I will make. In fact, if I was concerned about money the smart thing for me to do is stay in the Navy. If I were to do a military residency, I will be making O-3E pay with 12 years of active duty with 18 years for pay purposes. That is approximately $100K and possibly more depending on duty location and BAH. In fact, I even get criticism for not completing my 20 years of service. However, with a wife and two kids I am unable to make another 13 year commitment to the Navy , plus with the added possibility of 6-15 month deployments. Yes, 13 years, not 4, and yes, 15 month deployments. Here is where some of my best advice comes in. When making the decision whether or not to join the military you may want to do all your research and determine all of the worst case scenario’s and then count on those being part of your duties. If you do not take this advice, you will be like many others who have signed on the dotted line, and only listened to what they wanted to here from the recruiter, and now complain of how they got screwed. I have taken my own advice and applied it in order to make this very difficult decision.

In my worst case scenario I calculated a 13 year commitment; 4 years medical school, 1 year internship (doesn’t count for pay back) 2 years GMO tour, 2 -3 years residency (at least) and 3-4 year pay back. Also, you have to, no matter if there is a war going on or not, be ready to deploy for as long as the government asks. When I signed up for the Civil Engineer Corps, I was told that a one time 6 month deployment to the Seabees would be it. However, we soon learned that there was this little hidden thing called Individual Augmentations (IA) which had many Civil Engineer Corps officers heading to Iraq or Afghanistan. At first it was 6 months volunteer deployments, but soon became anywhere from 6-15 month non-volunteer deployments. Timing prevented me from going, but most of my colleagues have spent at least a year in Iraq or Afghanistan. There is one thing that is certain in the military, they have control and they can pretty much make you do anything they want. I have been willing in the past to serve the Navy and their needs, but now as my commitment comes to an end, I have the opportunity to make that choice once again. My family and I have decided that moving every 2-3 years, pulling children out of school, along with possible deployments, no longer fits our lifestyle. If you have researched the military and the sacrifices you will be making fits into your life, which it does for a lot of people, then I think HPSP is right for you.

The last thing I would like to address, which I see all over these post, is that I agree 110% with the people who say, “DO NOT DO IT FOR THE MONEY”. I have seen this first hand with a current colleague of mine. He literally joined the Civil Engineer Corps Scholarship program so he could have more money while in college. He never thought about the sacrifices and what the job actually entailed. He had no clue of what he was getting into, he just saw $$$. Now he is miserable. Everyday he is severely depressed and complains about his job and the military more than he actually performs. He not only makes himself miserable, but he brings down moral for the entire command. So chose thoughtfully and think long term and outside of the monetary benefits.

Overall, I believe the military in general and the Navy specifically are a great thing. I am grateful for the time I have served and the opportunities the Navy has provided. We are serving our country, and because of our service and our armed forces of the past and present, the citizens of the United States enjoys the freedoms of today. I have also seen the extraordinary things our military forces are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the majority of people in those two countries are grateful for our presence. I will miss being on active duty, but I am not leaving the military completely. I will be attending medical school op the Army National Guard STRAP program. The Guard scholarship allows my family and I to settle down and establish some stability, while also allowing me to continue to serve my country and build on my 12 years of service.

I hope this has provide insight for a least one person and if any one has any questions, please send me a message.
 
Hi all, I am 4th yr med student applying to civilian residencies now considering signing up for FAP after I match. My question is from anyone in the service if when it comes time to rank where I want to go is it competive or hard to get San Diego as my top place to live? I don't want to live in Norfolk for 4yrs. Anyone with any experience with this? tks.

You are unlikely to go to either for a first billet. Most of the general IM billets at the residency programs are filled by more experienced staff (not all, but most). You are more likely to end up overseas or in a billet at a smaller command (Lejuene, Lemoore, 29 Palms, etc).
 
You are unlikely to go to either for a first billet. Most of the general IM billets at the residency programs are filled by more experienced staff (not all, but most). You are more likely to end up overseas or in a billet at a smaller command (Lejuene, Lemoore, 29 Palms, etc).

Furthermore, with the GMO conversion, you will be one of the folks they have tapped for filling an operational assignment. Instead of folks out of internship, they will use FP/IM/Peds folks to carry that burden. This cuts both ways- maybe not what you suffered through an IM residency for, but after 3 years of that misery, maybe you'd be interested in seeing patients that are not non-compliant hypertensive diabetics. Add on top of that you may get to learn how to fly, trap aboard an aircraft carrier and even have nights that you sleep all the way through and weekends to yourself.
 
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