Navy Navy separation timeline

[bobbyseal]

Hey all,

I thought it might be fun to start a thread regarding my separation from the Navy. I'll try to update it as I go through the process. It may help out others.

In July 2013 I submitted the appropriate form to request separation. It took a few edits, but I got it submitted appropriately. Fortunately, I had a friend who had gone through the process a year earlier and he gave me a copy of his request. One thing to be aware of when you are separating is that the order is to separate no later than the end of the month. I'm not sure if the Navy or your CO would force you to stay on past the day when you initially checked in. I was fairly paranoid about this. As for my reason for separation which is a required part, I just said that I desired to pursue a career in civilian medicine.

Finally, I request a full release from active duty and resignation of my commission. My time in residency in a deferred status paid my time in the IRR in advance...

After that, I heard very little. A government shutdown occurred. In December, I got an email forwarded to me that BuMed/BuPers (not sure which) had received my resignation and it would be another 8-12 weeks before I heard anything.

In early January I got an email from someone at BuMed/Bupers with some clarification questions. Finally, now at the end of the month I received my orders.

Now, I have to figure out how to attend a TAP class, etc.

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[colbgw02]

In July 2013 I submitted the appropriate form to request separation. It took a few edits, but I got it submitted appropriately. Fortunately, I had a friend who had gone through the process a year earlier and he gave me a copy of his request. One thing to be aware of when you are separating is that the order is to separate no later than the end of the month. I'm not sure if the Navy or your CO would force you to stay on past the day when you initially checked in. I was fairly paranoid about this. As for my reason for separation which is a required part, I just said that I desired to pursue a career in civilian medicine.

Thanks for sharing. This part has me worried, as someone who is a few months away from initiating this process. Having finished my active duty residency on 30 June, I have been assuming that I started to fulfill my ROTC and GME obligations the next day - 1 July - even though I didn't sign into my new duty station until a couple of weeks later. Therefore, my ETS date should be 30 June, X number of years later. Then I hear about stories like yours, that make me worried that they'll someone how try to keep me through 31 July. Can anyone clarify? Literally no one in my department has ETSed since I arrived there, so I have no first-hand resources at my disposal.

 

[Yellowstone]

I submitted my request in early August and haven't heard anything yet.

 

[MTGas2B]

You probably won't hear anything for a while. Find out who your command career counselor is tell them your getting ready to separate. They'll start your mandatory separation counseling. And help you go to TAPS (now called TGPS). I submitted my request in Oct. I called PERS. They acknowledged that it's there, but not to expect kts hear much more for a few months.

 

[bobbyseal]

Thanks for sharing. This part has me worried, as someone who is a few months away from initiating this process. Having finished my active duty residency on 30 June, I have been assuming that I started to fulfill my ROTC and GME obligations the next day - 1 July - even though I didn't sign into my new duty station until a couple of weeks later. Therefore, my ETS date should be 30 June, X number of years later. Then I hear about stories like yours, that make me worried that they'll someone how try to keep me through 31 July. Can anyone clarify? Literally no one in my department has ETSed since I arrived there, so I have no first-hand resources at my disposal.

A friend of mine checked in at the command sometime in July. He had separation orders no later than July 31. He wasn't allowed to separate earlier than July 31. Your mileage may vary.

 

[deuist]

My time in residency in a deferred status paid my time in the IRR in advance...

Is that true? I've never heard that before. I did 4 years in a civilian deferred residency and would like to avoid additional IRR time.

 

[deuist]

A friend of mine checked in at the command sometime in July. He had separation orders no later than July 31. He wasn't allowed to separate earlier than July 31. Your mileage may vary.

Even though I graduated residency on 24 June, I did not have to report to my active duty station until 14 July. According to the Personnel website, my obligation ends on 31 July. I'm going to collect as much leave time as possible and try for terminal leave.

 

[bobbyseal]

Is that true? I've never heard that before. I did 4 years in a civilian deferred residency and would like to avoid additional IRR time.

Yes, it is true. I think it is based on your pay entry base date. I requested full release and resignation of my commission. It was granted.

Good luck with the process.

 

[colbgw02]

A friend of mine checked in at the command sometime in July. He had separation orders no later than July 31. He wasn't allowed to separate earlier than July 31. Your mileage may vary.

Darn. I haven't formally inquired as to my ETS date, but I'm going to be ticked if it's anything later than 30 June. I don't understand this end of July thing. I got charged leave from the end of my residency until I signed into my current duty station, so I don't get how they get to charge me that leave during the PCS and squeeze an extra month out of me. I mean, I don't understand other than the usual suck-it-up/deal-with-it answer to most issues I run into.

 

[afteranesthesia]

Yes, it is true. I think it is based on your pay entry base date. I requested full release and resignation of my commission. It was granted.

Good luck with the process.

I'm currently in civ deferred residency with the AF. How do I ensure I am also in IRR status and can get the same deal. Do I need to do anything? What do you mean by pay entry base date?

 

[mdmed2012]

Darn. I haven't formally inquired as to my ETS date, but I'm going to be ticked if it's anything later than 30 June. I don't understand this end of July thing. I got charged leave from the end of my residency until I signed into my current duty station, so I don't get how they get to charge me that leave during the PCS and squeeze an extra month out of me. I mean, I don't understand other than the usual suck-it-up/deal-with-it answer to most issues I run into.

How do you formally inquire? I figured mine will be 30 June, but it sounds like this may not be the case. Everything in my electronic service record, including EAOS, is blank. I guess I should find out instead of just assuming...

 

[colbgw02]

How do you formally inquire? I figured mine will be 30 June, but it sounds like this may not be the case. Everything in my electronic service record, including EAOS, is blank. I guess I should find out instead of just assuming...

Well, I guess I used the word "formally" a little loosely. Not sure if you're Army or not, but I think there is a DA form used to submit an inquiry. I couldn't tell you what it is and I think it's mostly used for enlisted folks. I was just planning on sending an email to my career manager when I get a little closer to having to sign for the July MASP bonus. In theory, the S1 shop (personnel office) should be able to figure it out, but I've found mine to be a hot mess. I'm not sure I would trust whatever they told me, provided they could even come up with an answer.

 

[IlDestriero]

Even though I graduated residency on 24 June, I did not have to report to my active duty station until 14 July. According to the Personnel website, my obligation ends on 31 July. I'm going to collect as much leave time as possible and try for terminal leave.

My command would not authorize more than 2 weeks of terminal leave except for retirees. I did however get 2 weeks of vacation prior to my 2 weeks of terminal leave, which is really just vacation. I did have to check back in and out one AM, but I was in town anyway. Maybe I just called? It's been a while. There may be work arounds available. Some may depend on if they liked you or not. I was a hard worker, sat on committees, took active leadership roles, passed PRTs, did mando stuff on time, etc. There was no reason for them not to want to hook me up. Many had all kinds of reasons to not want to give them a break. This is helpful for getting approval for CME, etc as well. I was absolutely given more slack than others in the command. When the XO has to make decisions about things with limited resources, you want him/her to remember you as a superstar early promote kind of guy, not a frequent slacker with many deficiency/issue emails CCd their way.
If you're planning on starting another job/fellowship right away, I'd plan on starting late (Aug 1) to be safe. I took 2 months off before fellowship. They didn't care. YMMV. I also took a month off after the fellowship. You earned the break, take it!

 

[IlDestriero]

Well, I guess I used the word "formally" a little loosely. Not sure if you're Army or not, but I think there is a DA form used to submit an inquiry. I couldn't tell you what it is and I think it's mostly used for enlisted folks. I was just planning on sending an email to my career manager when I get a little closer to having to sign for the July MASP bonus. In theory, the S1 shop (personnel office) should be able to figure it out, but I've found mine to be a hot mess. I'm not sure I would trust whatever they told me, provided they could even come up with an answer.

Be careful with your bonuses in your last year. Know what they're obligating you to and what affect that has on your separation.

 

[colbgw02]

Oh, definitely. The ISP I normally get in October isn't even on my radar, but I was planning on signing the MASP $15K bonus. I read that contract the first time I signed it, and it should be for 1 year beginning on 1 July, which shouldn't extend my obligation. Has something changed?

 

[pgg]

Oh, definitely. The ISP I normally get in October isn't even on my radar, but I was planning on signing the MASP $15K bonus. I read that contract the first time I signed it, and it should be for 1 year beginning on 1 July, which shouldn't extend my obligation. Has something changed?

No, you're right, ASP is usually 1 July - 30 June. And it's a concurrent obligation, so definitely take it.

ISP is the one to look out for, since it's aligned with the fiscal year (1 Oct - 30 Sep) and MOST of us have service obligation aligned with academic years. (Though it's actually pretty common for post-GMO inservice residencies to start a month or two late, and therefore graduate a month or two late ... those guys might have their ADSOs effectively extended less if they take ISP that last year.)

 

[bobbyseal]

I'm currently in civ deferred residency with the AF. How do I ensure I am also in IRR status and can get the same deal. Do I need to do anything? What do you mean by pay entry base date?

I didn't have to do anything special. When you check in at your first duty station, you should have creditable service for your time during residency. So, if you're anesthesia, you'll probably be O3 with 4 years service. When you do your separation, you just request to have your commission resigned and no further time with the reserves.

 

[bobbyseal]

Darn. I haven't formally inquired as to my ETS date, but I'm going to be ticked if it's anything later than 30 June. I don't understand this end of July thing. I got charged leave from the end of my residency until I signed into my current duty station, so I don't get how they get to charge me that leave during the PCS and squeeze an extra month out of me. I mean, I don't understand other than the usual suck-it-up/deal-with-it answer to most issues I run into.

When did you get your orders stamped at your first duty station after residency? You're commitment is probably based upon that day. Though, I'm not really sure how it works with an active duty residency and then moving onto payback time.

I guess for those who are reading this, it pays to check into your first duty station as soon as possible after residency, preferably on or before June 30th.

 

[afteranesthesia]

I am hoping to have a baby during residency so this would mean I would have to extend residency by a few weeks. Does that matter much? I assume there's not much they can do about it.

 

[pgg]

I am hoping to have a baby during residency so this would mean I would have to extend residency by a few weeks. Does that matter much? I assume there's not much they can do about it.

The military is very accustomed to people starting and finishing residency a few weeks or a couple months off cycle. Don't worry about it.

 

[met19]

When did you get your orders stamped at your first duty station after residency? You're commitment is probably based upon that day. Though, I'm not really sure how it works with an active duty residency and then moving onto payback time.

I guess for those who are reading this, it pays to check into your first duty station as soon as possible after residency, preferably on or before June 30th.

This is somewhat true for me- when they process my separation date (EAOS) it was based upon the date of check in, but I had my statement of service with my active duty time starting 2 weeks earlier (in a different month) which moved my EAOS date up by 1 month. My advice is to check your paperwork, confirm what the date is and discuss with appropriate annoying GS personnel to fix dates if inaccurate. if separating residencies and staff jobs will want to know a prospective start date which is all based off when you get out.

 

[colbgw02]

When did you get your orders stamped at your first duty station after residency? You're commitment is probably based upon that day. Though, I'm not really sure how it works with an active duty residency and then moving onto payback time.

I guess for those who are reading this, it pays to check into your first duty station as soon as possible after residency, preferably on or before June 30th.

I am fairly confident that my separation date is 30 June. I didn't sign into my duty station until mid-July, but I was in payback on ordinary leave beginning on 1 July. I was able to confirm this with several people who are separating this year, and that's how it worked for them. I'll definitely double and triple check as the time nears, because who knows what sort of shenanigans they'll try to pull. I'm not sure why others are getting different answers, except that maybe it's an Army/Navy thing or because my residency was on active duty.

 

[bobbyseal]

So, after I got my orders I found out from a Corpsman that I needed to talk to the command career counselor. I did a "pre-sep" briefing and they filled out some form for me. I was the able to schedule my taps class which runs for five days. I also got in touch with a separations clerk at psd. I had to fill out some questionnaire for her as well. She said I can pick any date for my separation during the month. So far, sounds like good news...
Finally, I put in for my terminal leave, all 4 days of it. I use a lot of leave....

 

[denali]

So, after I got my orders I found out from a Corpsman that I needed to talk to the command career counselor. I did a "pre-sep" briefing and they filled out some form for me. I was the able to schedule my taps class which runs for five days. I also got in touch with a separations clerk at psd. I had to fill out some questionnaire for her as well. She said I can pick any date for my separation during the month. So far, sounds like good news...
Finally, I put in for my terminal leave, all 4 days of it. I use a lot of leave....

Enjoy TAPS; I hear it's gotten much more grueling. A colleague of mine spent most of it catching up on journals while the class discussed USA-Jobs, interviewing, cover letters, job fairs, resume building, etc. They still made her show up, but left her alone after she turned in a copy of her CV and they admitted they couldn't help her review her new employment contract. Hopefully they won't require perfect attendance from you.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Congrats on the orders. I'm in the same boat. I have a couple of things to add

According to local PSD and PERS (we called them) you get to choose what day of the month you separate. Rarely commands can fight it but generally don't. I'm choosing July 1st


SO CLOSE!!

 

[bricktamland]

I'm one of those lucky souls who, at the end of my GMO tour with the Marines, was withheld from starting residency on time. I remember my residency program urging me to begin ASAP, since experience showed that the people who started late tended to struggle mightily. I expressed this concern to the Division Surgeon, who basically said, "we're undermanned and I can't let you go until your replacement arrives." Well, I didn't start residency until August 14. That first year of residency was, in fact, brutal. Compared to my peers who started 1-2 months earlier, I always seemed developmentally delayed. Over time, with much effort, I survived and did fine, but it was an unnecessarily painful experience.

Well, now I'm getting hosed again. I'm applying for a civilian fellowship this summer, for the same year that I will be separating. The problem is that the month of my separation, due to my delayed residency graduation date, is September. Fellowships start July 1. I'll have a brand new hospital CO when it comes time to beg for approval for terminal leave. I'll have at least 60 days on the books to begin with during that final year. At a minimum, I'm hoping they'll approve 60 days so I can at least start fellowship on time if I pick Sept 1 as my separation date. But I've got a pie-in-the-sky plan to pick Sept 30 as my separation date and try to collect my final ISP bonus. That would entail using 90 days of terminal leave to also start fellowship on time. In 1.5 years, when I try to pull this off, I'll try to remember this thread and post my results with this plan. It's crazy, by September 1, I will have worked 336 of the 365 days to earn that ISP bonus. It would suck to lose out on $36K on the whim of one person fretting over 29 days. C'est la vie.

Has anyone had any experience with starting a civilian fellowship late as a consequence of your military separation date? I'd be interested to hear any advice. Were programs willing to accommodate for a few days or weeks? I need to be prepared for a worst-case scenario.

 

[colbgw02]

I'm one of those lucky souls who, at the end of my GMO tour with the Marines, was withheld from starting residency on time. I remember my residency program urging me to begin ASAP, since experience showed that the people who started late tended to struggle mightily. I expressed this concern to the Division Surgeon, who basically said, "we're undermanned and I can't let you go until your replacement arrives." Well, I didn't start residency until August 14. That first year of residency was, in fact, brutal. Compared to my peers who started 1-2 months earlier, I always seemed developmentally delayed. Over time, with much effort, I survived and did fine, but it was an unnecessarily painful experience.

Well, now I'm getting hosed again. I'm applying for a civilian fellowship this summer, for the same year that I will be separating. The problem is that the month of my separation, due to my delayed residency graduation date, is September. Fellowships start July 1. I'll have a brand new hospital CO when it comes time to beg for approval for terminal leave. I'll have at least 60 days on the books to begin with during that final year. At a minimum, I'm hoping they'll approve 60 days so I can at least start fellowship on time if I pick Sept 1 as my separation date. But I've got a pie-in-the-sky plan to pick Sept 30 as my separation date and try to collect my final ISP bonus. That would entail using 90 days of terminal leave to also start fellowship on time. In 1.5 years, when I try to pull this off, I'll try to remember this thread and post my results with this plan. It's crazy, by September 1, I will have worked 336 of the 365 days to earn that ISP bonus. It would suck to lose out on $36K on the whim of one person fretting over 29 days. Se la vie.

Has anyone had any experience with starting a civilian fellowship late as a consequence of your military separation date? I'd be interested to hear any advice. Were programs willing to accommodate for a few days or weeks? I need to be prepared for a worst-case scenario.

*C'est la vie

And, dude, crazy plan. I know it's painful to pass up that ISP, especially for a difference of 1 month, but it's not worth it.

 

[bricktamland]

*C'est la vie

And, dude, crazy plan. I know it's painful to pass up that ISP, especially for a difference of 1 month, but it's not worth it.

Perly voo franzee? Thanks for the catch. Spelling "faux pas" fixed.

Regarding my crazy plan, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible to sign up for the ISP and then pay back the money if I don't fulfill the obligation?

 

[colbgw02]

Perly voo franzee? Thanks for the catch. Spelling "faux pas" fixed.

Regarding my crazy plan, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible to sign up for the ISP and then pay back the money if I don't fulfill the obligation?

Never heard of that. I'd be surprised if that were the case. I've also only heard of one case, through the grapevine, of being able to get the ISP prorated. Anything's possible, but if I had to be somewhere on 1 July, then I wouldn't sign that bonus unless there was a strong local history of approving 90+ days of terminal leave (92, to be exact). It doesn't sound like you can count on that.

Do you have your fellowship lined up? If so, then it probably can't hurt to ask. But as someone who recently came off the fellowship interview trail, I can't imagine applying with the 'baggage' of showing up late. What about a job afterward? If you already signed a contract and they don't care, then that changes things too. However, being off-cycle is just not as common or accepted outside of the military, in my experience, especially when fellowships and jobs are increasingly competitive, as they are for our specialty. I've seen problems arise for colleagues because they signed the October bonus and, not only could they not get to a fellowship in time, but jobs weren't too thrilled about having to wait until August/September. It can definitely close doors.

Money now is better than money later, but not necessarily when we're talking about unequal amounts. Using the rule of 70 and a 7% rate of return, that ISP would be worth about $120K after 20 years, assuming you invested every single post-tax dollar. Compare that to the lost increase in salary over your military pay at a civilian job if you end up 'losing' a year by not being able to start a fellowship or get your forever job when you want to by being off-cycle.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

It's ridiculous that ya'll are even having this conversation. > 30 days terminal leave SHOULD always be granted and ISP SHOULD always be prorated, but they are not. We have served this country honorably (something >98% of this country has never done) and this is how we are treated on our way out. The military should be embarrassed by this policy and do everything it can to enact change, but you know they will not. Get as much terminal leave as you can and if they try to screw you, file an IG complaint citing irrevocable harm to your post-military career by keeping you from fellowship. Also, do NOT sign for ISP as they will certainly NOT prorate it. Finally once you are out, join me in actively recruiting against HPSP/USUHS at medical schools by dispelling all the mistruths put out by recruiters. If we can go back to '06/'07 where only roughly half of all HPSP slots were filled, we can hurt them where it counts. You may scoff at this, but as the economy picks up it will be harder and harder to fill these HPSP slots. Make it even harder by spreading the "truth" about what it means to be a physician in the military.

 

[bricktamland]

I certainly won't risk my fellowship prospects in order to gain a few extra bucks. But considering the substantial drop in pay during that fellowship year, the added $36k will definitely help soften the blow. Not only that, (and not to sound like a broken record) but I would feel seriously fleeced by the Navy should I lose out on the entire sum and get nothing after putting in 11 out of 12 months.

It's also ironic that as someone who sacrificed 3 years of dead time as a GMO, and did a tour in Iraq, that I actually come out on the losing end when compared to my colleagues who avoided GMO time. For instance, my counterpart at work did a deferred internship and residency. He has a fellowship lined up for the summer he separates, and his separation month is July. I'm sure he'll have no problem using some terminal leave and be set up for exiting in June or maybe May. Granted, I'm a little envious, but I'm totally happy for him.

It's certainly yet another major problem that recruiters probably avoid disclosing, if they're even aware of it.

 

[pgg]

join me in actively recruiting against HPSP/USUHS at medical schools by dispelling all the mistruths put out by recruiters. If we can go back to '06/'07 where only roughly half of all HPSP slots were filled, we can hurt them where it counts. You may scoff at this, but as the economy picks up it will be harder and harder to fill these HPSP slots. Make it even harder by spreading the "truth" about what it means to be a physician in the military.

*scoff*

They modestly upped the $ for HPSP and in the midst of two wars they filled the scholarships again. Good luck with your campaign in peace time, with rising tuition and loan rates. The economy is irrelevant to premed students.


bricktamland, a doctor at my command got >30d of terminal leave approved and left to start fellowship on time. Sucks that there's so much variability and discretion involved, but it may be possible.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

*scoff*

They modestly upped the $ for HPSP and in the midst of two wars they filled the scholarships again. Good luck with your campaign in peace time, with rising tuition and loan rates. The economy is irrelevant to premed students.


bricktamland, a doctor at my command got >30d of terminal leave approved and left to start fellowship on time. Sucks that there's so much variability and discretion involved, but it may be possible.

You may be right or you may be wrong, but at least I'll do my part to give medical students accurate and truthful information about the HPSP "scholarship" that they are certainly not getting from recruiters. If they decide that not getting the residency they want in an area they don't want to live and then doing a 2-year brigade surgeon tour after said residency where their skills erode and make them non-employable in the real world is worth the money, then more power to them.

 

[bobbyseal]

I got my terminal leave approved.

Now that I am pretty sure that I have my separation date all lined up, I decided to coordinate the military move. Going through the move.mil website was somewhat of a pain. But this is the 3rd time now that I've done it. So far, so good. I guess I remember how to get through the herky jerky system.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I had a similarly good week. Met with PSD. Got my terminal leave approved. Gave my new job my start date, filled out my move paperwork, and now I get to walk around on Cloud 9 like Peter Gibbons for the next 96 days

 

[MTGas2B]

How far out were your orders cut? I'm looking at October separation. So I'm expecting at least by April. Is that about what you guys experienced?

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

They told me to expect it 3 months before the date. But I got it 5 months out. All of my friends separating July got them within the last 4 weeks.

 

[bricktamland]

Would you guys, who are in the midst of separating, mind sharing the amount of terminal leave you had approved? And did you run into any challenges with the terminal leave request process?

Also, on a separate issue, it would be great if you guys could post a thread down the road relating your thoughts and feelings about medicine in your post-military career. It would interesting to hear the positives and negatives after you've been practicing in civilian medicine for a little while.

Thanks.

 

[bobbyseal]

I got my orders about 6 months prior to separation. I also submitted the request about 11 months in advance.

@bricktamland: I will try to post once I start my new job. I do look forward to it.

 

[MTGas2B]

Another random orders question. Since BUPERS online no longer shows orders were you able to find your separation orders in NSIPS?

 

[bobbyseal]

No, they were emailed to me via HR at the hospital.

 

[MTGas2B]

My orders for October showed up on NSIPS today.

Answered my own question.