It is called going through the hoops. People here have to go to undergrad and then complete 4 years of education just to get their DDS/DMD. This is 4 years of undergrad followed by another 4 years of dental school. This costs way more than $400,000. Foreign trained dentist have to complete 4-6 years after high school. Completing another 2 years is not only fair, but should be required so that they can understand the standards of care required here in the US. I have visited several dental offices in India and have seen the quality of care and infection control (or lack thereof) provided there.
Yes, the students (citizens of the US) should have their turf protected. This country already is facing problems with employment, so there is no reason to have the market diluted with additional foreign workers by making it easy to work here. The playing field should be leveled. In fact, it would be better if the FTD are in a similar debt position as we are.
Again, I will address it by sections.
> It is called going through the hoops.
No. It's called faulty and broken educational system.
> People here have to go to undergrad and then complete 4 years of education just to get their DDS/DMD. This is 4 years of undergrad followed by another 4 years of dental school. This costs way more than $400,000. Foreign trained dentist have to complete 4-6 years after high school.
These are two entire separate problems that you are combining into one. One mistake can never justify another. I have met numerous foreign graduates who are far better trained than most who have just finished dental programs in US schools. Is it their fault that they have been able to accomplish in 4 or 5 years what US graduates aren't able to accomplish in 8 ? Should they be punished because they come from an improved educational system ? What about those that graduated in schools in Germany, Switzerland or Italy where dentistry is a specialty of Medicine and they must become physicians first in order to then specialize in Dentistry ? Are they also supposed to be punished despite the fact that their education is so clearly superior than that of US graduates ?
The answer you give above is clearly an indication that you are not thinking logically about a problem but rather finding a solution that is good for your own individual needs. I believe that you must instead use this energy to fix an educational system that is severely broken. It is not a secret that we now rate anywhere from 15th to 28th in the world in regards to the quality of our education. The fact that a dental student has to acquire debt in the range of $400 K to $750 K in order to obtain an university degree is right down obscene, pornographic. My suggestion is that you should contact your political representatives and demand that this be changed. A country such as ours (Yes, although I am a foreign graduate I am also American and love this country. As a father I am really concerned about the quality and cost of the education my children will receive when the time comes for them to go to an University) shouldn't subsidized oil companies, Wall Street firms and banks while it turns its back to educational institutions. The university where I obtained my dental degree was a public one solely maintained by federal funds. I attended dental school for 5 years without paying a single penny. I had expenses with books, instruments and supplies as would be expected but the cost to attend school was zero. In that country (that the US classifies as a developing country) the best schools are the public ones maintained by public funds. What a concept. Something American politicians should seriously think about.
> Completing another 2 years is not only fair, but should be required so that they can understand the standards of care required here in the US.
Not true in many different ways. Completing 2 years shouldn't be required as many foreign graduates who already live and practice here already know about the standard of care in America. This statement also proves that you really don't understand the definition of standard of care and what it is. There are many (trust me, many) dental organizations in America currently operating below the standard of care and nothing is done about it. Look at most of the large group practices and the number of complaints filed against them every year and you will see what I mean. Clinics where patients are mutilated purely for profit. Places where they receive treatment they don't need, children are treated excessively and government funded programs are billed for services never rendered for the monetary gain of a group of fat cats that the government seems totally unequipped to control and bring to justice. Things in America aren't as perfect as you paint them. In fact, dentistry in America is in many ways more troubling than in many other countries if you consider how rich we are and the fact that there should be plenty to go around for everyone. However, the greed displayed by many ruins it for most of us.
> I have visited several dental offices in India and have seen the quality of care and infection control (or lack thereof) provided there.
This is a generalization and another mistake. Just as you can't generalize as to the quality of the education of foreign graduates you also shouldn't generalize about the quality of dentistry in India. India is a country with many social and economic challenges. But remember this is a country that houses approximately 1/4 of the world's population. It is so vast and large it is impossible to describe anything in it with a general, umbrella-type statement. There are individuals that practice dentistry on the streets, seating on the sidewalks and using instruments that have never been disinfected let alone sterilized. But I have also met many dentists from India (I have never visited the country) that were extremely well trained, competent and practicing quality dentistry that you would have trouble finding in a large percentage of dental offices in the US. Again, this is the problem with generalizations. Every individual should be evaluated according to his or her own merits.
> Yes, the students (citizens of the US) should have their turf protected.
I disagree again. This leads to incompetence. The reason we have better cars today was because the Reagan administration failed to surrender to pressure from American car companies and impose sanctions against Japanese cars that were better build and sold for less back in the 1980s. American companies had to face the competition and were forced instead to improve the quality of their cars. I am a citizen of the US although a foreign dental graduate. One can be both things. I don't agree with our current educational model and have no doubt that we will struggle in the future to remain competitive with other nations if we don't change it. As a foreign graduate who entered the country LEGALLY, became a citizen, pays all his taxes, practices dentistry at a level that isn't matched by most of my colleagues who are US graduates I resent your comments. They represent a prejudice that should NOT exist anywhere and especially in the academic environment of a University that should be preparing professionals to be progressive thinkers. When I choose to apply for a specialty program and make a sacrifice for a number of years living with limited income because I aspire to become a better professional and perhaps even enter an academic career I should be rewarded and not punished. I would expect to be evaluated on my individual merits, my experience and background, and ultimately the depth of my knowledge. This decision should NOT come down to US or Non-US graduate ?
> This country already is facing problems with employment, so there is no reason to have the market diluted with additional foreign workers by making it easy to work here.
Again you are mixing too entirely different topics. Some believe the market is already saturated. Others think we don't have enough dentists and propose the creation of mid-level providers - individuals with mid-level training such as RDAEFs that would be trained to provide basic dental services where there is a shortage of dentists. Worse even, there are states in the US where Denturists still exist and are allowed to practice. Can you imagine ? This will not be addressed by targeting foreign trained dentists but rather by changing our educational system. I am against mid-level providers and Denturists because they weaken our profession. They give others the idea that Dentistry is so easy you can train anyone to do it. This is what you should really be targeting.
The problems our country is facing with employment, and I agree with you, should be addressed by the Immigration department. As someone who came to America using all the proper and legal channels, and always abided by the law, I am one who strongly believes in Immigration reform and controlling the volume of immigrants that come to this country. But this is a job for the Immigration department and it has absolutely nothing to do with the way academic institutions such as universities and dental schools evaluate professionals in regard to whether they are prepared to attend specialty training.
The moment Universities start to discriminate foreign graduates to protect the turn of those who are US graduates they stop being academic institutions and become part of the political establishment. And this is very wrong. Universities should be involved in teaching and research, not in politics.
> The playing field should be leveled. In fact, it would be better if the FTD are in a similar debt position as we are.
Wrong again. One mistake doesn't justify another. No university graduate should leave school with a debt of $400 K to $750 K. Period. US or Non-US graduate. This, as I said before, is obscene and pornographic. We had billions to bail out Wall Street firms and banks. We went to war to ensure the oil supply to our oil multinational companies such as Exxon. Where is the money we need for health and education ? I know colleagues who own their offices and have been practitioners for more than 20 years. They are now in a situation where their children want to attend dental school and they are not sure whether they will have the financial means to support them. Can you imagine that ? This is just absurd.
My suggestion is that you should first go back and really understand the content of my post and question. Second I would suggest that you form a group and become an activist speaking on behalf of our profession. This is the most effective way to change the things above that you complain about. Targeting foreign graduates that are your colleagues and face that very same challenges you face is not the right or most effective way to do it.
