Need Advice! 30 yr old mother needing to finish B.S. for Psy.D. in Psychology

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members don't see this ad.
Pragma said:
Some of us make that much with all of those benefits. A doctoral degree will raise your ceiling to an extent, but it would be wrong to tell people to expect that amount. Higher paying positions are more competitive. You CAN make a lot by working more, but it depends how much you want to work. I think some people graduate and end up frustrated if their expectations were not informed.
Click to expand...

Agreed but the individuals I am referencing are not exceeding 45 hours per week. Thanks
 
Rationalthought said:
Agreed but the individuals I am referencing are not exceeding 45 hours per week. Thanks
Click to expand...
Yes, but if the average salary is not that, it is pointless to raise the expectations of that person (especially when you're telling them to do online schooling and giving them other ****ty advice)
 
Rationalthought said:
That is what I said also. Perhaps you miss read my statement. I said

"1. Attend an online program from a reputable traditional university. Stick away from Waldens, Capella etc"
Click to expand...

Um you might of misread my post too lol. I said traditional brick and mortar institutes where you are a student at a regular college that takes a few night classes and a few online classes. I did not mention applying to a online school. What I mean is that you are a traditional student who does mostly in class night classes while doing a few online courses
 
Rationalthought said:
Agreed but the individuals I am referencing are not exceeding 45 hours per week. Thanks
Click to expand...
There are ways to do that of course, but it is definitely the exception and not the rule.

I'd just hate for someone to read this and believe that if they get their PsyD they'll be netting 130k minus taxes and benefits by joining a PP. That would be unusual. Moreover, as Wis said, debt is another huge consideration because those payments can get real high.
 
WisNeuro said:
And, the added salary may not mean much at all if she's carrying 200k+ in debt.
Click to expand...

200k debt is unusually large but the question also remains is it federal debt or private debt? I like to look at things in-depth. If it is federal student loan debt then she can qualify for income based repayment. According to the repayment calculator, 200k at 6% interest with 90k income yearly income single. She qualifies for 900 dollar a month payments and loan forgiveness if working in 501c3 organizations (such as many agencies and hospitals etc). if not loan forgiveness at 20 years. 900 bucks a month is alot but that is still 80k plus a year afterwards. Its is not poverty but at the same time not preferable to completely funded PHD or PsyD programs.

https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLo...epaymentEstimator.action#view-repayment-plans
 
PsychMajorUndergrad18 said:
Um you might of misread my post too lol. I said traditional brick and mortar institutes where you are a student at a regular college that takes a few night classes and a few online classes. I did not mention applying to a online school. What I mean is that you are a traditional student who does mostly in class night classes while doing a few online courses
Click to expand...

I see . My apologies then
 
Pragma said:
There are ways to do that of course, but it is definitely the exception and not the rule.

I'd just hate for someone to read this and believe that if they get their PsyD they'll be netting 130k minus taxes and benefits by joining a PP. That would be unusual. Moreover, as Wis said, debt is another huge consideration because those payments can get real high.
Click to expand...

I would not call it the rule but I would not call it the exception as well. It is far too common in my metropolitan area and state among those in certain areas of clinical psychology.
 
Rationalthought said:
200k debt is unusually large but the question also remains is it federal debt or private debt?
Click to expand...

Check out the APA salary survey, having more than 150k in loan debt is not unusual for PsyD graduates at all. There are repayment programs, but I, for one, would not want to trust that they will always be around. Even so, they limit where you can work and/or live to some extent. Definitely not an ideal situation to be in where you are indentured to a certain area/job for 10-20 years. The name of the game is flexibility, and carrying that debt albatross severely cuts into it.
 
Rationalthought said:
200k debt is unusually large but the question also remains is it federal debt or private debt? I like to look at things in-depth. If it is federal student loan debt then she can qualify for income based repayment. According to the repayment calculator, 200k at 6% interest with 90k income yearly income single. She qualifies for 900 dollar a month payments and loan forgiveness if working in 501c3 organizations (such as many agencies and hospitals etc). if not loan forgiveness at 20 years. 900 bucks a month is alot but that is still 80k plus a year afterwards. Its is not poverty but at the same time not preferable to completely funded PHD or PsyD programs.

https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLo...epaymentEstimator.action#view-repayment-plans
Click to expand...

Rationalthought said:
I would not call it the rule but I would not call it the exception as well. It is far too common in my metropolitan area and state among those in certain areas of clinical psychology.
Click to expand...

There's lots of factors at play. Deeper in one's career salaries get higher. The level of saturation in the locale. Whether you have a good niche.

Data beats anecdotes. I know folks who make 200k plus but most folks I know in the field make 60-100. Some of us do better than that and get to the mid 100s but it is not typical at all in my area. That's why you take into account national averages, cost of living, saturation, etc.

Re: PSLF, no guarantees there at all and working for a nonprofit or gov lowers the ceiling. What would you do with an extra $900-1000 per month (and I've seen them much higher)? High debtloads are becoming more typical in the programs you are recommending.
 
The phrase " do I look fat in this" is girl code for "Buy me a Lane Bryant gift card". Snapping your fingers at waiters is a great way to get their attention. Yell, "no you are not arresting me" to the police. A baby will totally save a relationship. Axe body spray is a nice alternative to a shower. People in foreign countries only understand loud slow English. Bring up race and racial stereotypes whenever you can. Challenge people's political and religious views. Pay for everything in change. The 10 items or less aisle is code for "I don't want to wait", regardless of the number of items. That conspiracy theory is true. Vaccines cause autism. Drinking Diet Coke means you can order whatever you want. Your grandmother probably has a lot of advice about sex. A falling knife has no edges. The spare tire can only be used at highway speeds. If you encounter a wild animal, the safest place is between the mother and baby (she wouldn't attack her baby!). If they liked that song, they'll really love to hear it on repeat.
 
To the OP, at this point I doubt you are checking the thread b/c it has derailed. In case you are...

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. You are thinking about a graduate school degree that will take 5-7 years to complete but you are not currently sure where to finish an undergrad degree.

For your situation, you are best off finding universities with strong psych depts but also flexible classes. Whether that be evening or online. OneNeuroDoc gave you lots of information and you need to find something that fits for you. Do not go the all online route but find something more flexible than the traditional university schedule. Take summer classes and winter break classes if possible. Its highly recommended that you get some research experience as well.

Once you do that, then you will need to decide what type if job you most want. Your goals may change by then. Closer to that point you can start figuring out your next step.
 
erg923 said:
PsyD programs are more clinically focused is false statement with no empirical backing or proof. They have about the same of one thing and about none of the other.
Click to expand...
I think we need to create a clinical psych wiki that shatters these erroneous beliefs.
 
DynamicDidactic said:
I think we need to create a clinical psych wiki that shatters these erroneous beliefs.
Click to expand...

This is basic stuff really. Not empiricial but basic coursework design

WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A PSY.D. AND A PH.D. PROGRAM IN CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY?
First of all, it is important to understand that Psy.D. graduates receive a Doctorate of Psychology upon graduating, while Ph.D. graduates receive a Doctorate of Philosophy in Clinical Psychology. On one hand, Psy.D. programs tend to emphasize the practitioner-scholar model, while on the other hand, Ph.D. programs tend to emphasize the scientist-practitioner model. However, the most important difference between the two degrees is that the Ph.D. program focuses more on research, whereas the Psy.D. focuses more on clinical training. In addition, most Psy.D. graduate students receive more training in psychological testing than do Ph.D. students. A Psy.D. prepares the student to work in a variety of clinical settings, ranging from family therapy to working with severely disturbed patients in mental institutions. A Ph.D. prepares the student to work as a researcher, teacher, and practitioner

http://www.liu.edu/CWPost/Academics/Schools/CLAS/Dept/Psychology/PsyD2/PsyD-vs-PhD
 
Rationalthought said:
This is basic stuff really. Not empiricial but basic coursework design

WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A PSY.D. AND A PH.D. PROGRAM IN CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY?
First of all, it is important to understand that Psy.D. graduates receive a Doctorate of Psychology upon graduating, while Ph.D. graduates receive a Doctorate of Philosophy in Clinical Psychology. On one hand, Psy.D. programs tend to emphasize the practitioner-scholar model, while on the other hand, Ph.D. programs tend to emphasize the scientist-practitioner model. However, the most important difference between the two degrees is that the Ph.D. program focuses more on research, whereas the Psy.D. focuses more on clinical training. In addition, most Psy.D. graduate students receive more training in psychological testing than do Ph.D. students. A Psy.D. prepares the student to work in a variety of clinical settings, ranging from family therapy to working with severely disturbed patients in mental institutions. A Ph.D. prepares the student to work as a researcher, teacher, and practitioner

http://www.liu.edu/CWPost/Academics/Schools/CLAS/Dept/Psychology/PsyD2/PsyD-vs-PhD
Click to expand...

This post does not provide empirical evidence (read as data) to support of your original assertion.

Publicly available *data* continues to support that PsyD programs provide the same or slightly less supervised clinically training compared to phd programs and significantly less (bordering on zero) research training, experience, or mentoring. Being solely clinically- oriented does mean you are more clinically-oriented than your PhD. counterparts.

I therefore stand-by my assertion that this
Rationalthought said:
the Psyd which is a more clinical focused degree.
Click to expand...
is "make believe."
 
Last edited:
Well if LIU said it than throw out the APPIC data. It must be gospel.

Year after year PhD candidates match for internship with more clinical hours than PsyD students. Last year they were close but still slight edge to PhD.

This is derailed from the original topic but just another example about the myths out there. It's part of the FSPS marketing pitch so I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise.
 
Rationalthought said:
200k debt is unusually large but the question also remains is it federal debt or private debt? I like to look at things in-depth. If it is federal student loan debt then she can qualify for income based repayment. According to the repayment calculator, 200k at 6% interest with 90k income yearly income single. She qualifies for 900 dollar a month payments and loan forgiveness if working in 501c3 organizations (such as many agencies and hospitals etc). if not loan forgiveness at 20 years. 900 bucks a month is alot but that is still 80k plus a year afterwards. Its is not poverty but at the same time not preferable to completely funded PHD or PsyD programs.

https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLo...epaymentEstimator.action#view-repayment-plans
Click to expand...

So, your position is that people should have no qualms (moral, ethical, financial) about paying exorbitant rates for an education that the typical salary would not be able to afford because "the government", and not you/student, will foot most of the bill?
 
Last edited:
erg923 said:
So, your position is that people should have no qualms (moral, ethical, financial) about paying exorbitant rates for an education that the typical salary would not be able to afford because "the government", and not you/student, will foot most of the bill?
Click to expand...
I will pay money for someone to call Dave Ramsey and tell him about this plan. It would be priceless.
 
Pragma said:
There's lots of factors at play. Deeper in one's career salaries get higher. The level of saturation in the locale. Whether you have a good niche.

Data beats anecdotes. I know folks who make 200k plus but most folks I know in the field make 60-100. Some of us do better than that and get to the mid 100s but it is not typical at all in my area. That's why you take into account national averages, cost of living, saturation, etc.

Re: PSLF, no guarantees there at all and working for a nonprofit or gov lowers the ceiling. What would you do with an extra $900-1000 per month (and I've seen them much higher)? High debtloads are becoming more typical in the programs you are recommending.
Click to expand...

Pragma makes excellent points. I would also point out, perhaps cynically, but based on my own anecdotes (which are absolutely never, ever, EVER! to be taken as data), people sometimes/often over-report/inflate/embellish/exaggerate/etc., their self-reported income. This can occur for a variety of reasons. I have also seen several instances of my postdocs being offered seemingly amazing POTENTIAL starting INCOMES (and that is very different from a SALARY; and, if you do not know the difference... well, then, you need some additional basic education) in PP settings, only to see that the proverbial fine print revealed the reality, which "amazingly" never seemed to even approach what was hawked in the recruitment pitch. A "guaranteed referral stream" is NOT the same thing as a "guaranteed revenue stream." Translation: "Yes, we will provide you with all the Medicaid patients that we can fit on your schedule!" versus "All the full-pay, cash-out-of-pocket patients that YOU bring in based on your OWN marketing and efforts!" And then there is cognitive dissonance, which kicks in after you have signed on and the loan repayments begin...
 
Last edited:
Rationalthought said:
This is basic stuff really. Not empiricial but basic coursework design

WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A PSY.D. AND A PH.D. PROGRAM IN CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY?
First of all, it is important to understand that Psy.D. graduates receive a Doctorate of Psychology upon graduating, while Ph.D. graduates receive a Doctorate of Philosophy in Clinical Psychology. On one hand, Psy.D. programs tend to emphasize the practitioner-scholar model, while on the other hand, Ph.D. programs tend to emphasize the scientist-practitioner model. However, the most important difference between the two degrees is that the Ph.D. program focuses more on research, whereas the Psy.D. focuses more on clinical training. In addition, most Psy.D. graduate students receive more training in psychological testing than do Ph.D. students. A Psy.D. prepares the student to work in a variety of clinical settings, ranging from family therapy to working with severely disturbed patients in mental institutions. A Ph.D. prepares the student to work as a researcher, teacher, and practitioner

http://www.liu.edu/CWPost/Academics/Schools/CLAS/Dept/Psychology/PsyD2/PsyD-vs-PhD
Click to expand...

This paragraph is best understood as marketing copy.
 
Ok everyone, I had no idea this thread blew up like it did. Kudos to you all, and thank you for all the insight and advice, honestly. My son's birthday was today and I had family in town until recently. I also didn't receive any email updates about this thread and didn't realize there were all these responses. I will respond more tomorrow after I have some time to read through it all in more detail.
 
Erin.S said:
Ok everyone, I had no idea this thread blew up like it did. Kudos to you all, and thank you for all the insight and advice, honestly. My son's birthday was today and I had family in town until recently. I also didn't receive any email updates about this thread and didn't realize there were all these responses. I will respond more tomorrow after I have some time to read through it all in more detail.
Click to expand...


I finished my degree online through a reputable school and am now awaiting interview decisions for PhD programs. As others have mentioned, I would stay away from the cliché online degree mills (e.g., Capella, University of Phoenix, etc.). However, most big/well-known universities offer online courses or completion degrees. If you already have almost 2 years completed from a university, I'd look into a reputable school that has an online division. If admissions committees frown upon the fact that I went back to school via online (and at a great school) after 30, worked full time, and immersed myself in research, then I wouldn't want to go to their program anyway. If you decide on the aforementioned route, make sure to be proactive in finding a research lab and mentor (as others have also mentioned). Best of luck!
P.S. I've heard Penn State has an excellent online psychology division
 
Rationalthought said:
This is basic stuff really. Not empiricial but basic coursework design
Click to expand...
I think what you are trying to say is that PsyD programs are designed to have a stronger emphasis on clinical work than traditional PhD programs. This may actually be true. Anecdotally, I recently reviewed the curriculum of a university based PsyD program and noticed that it required a lot more classes than my program. However, that is all it is, anecdotal information, just the noticing and musing of a person surfing the web. But at the moment, we have no empirical data demonstrating that PsyD programs provide more clinical training. Actually, the best data we currently have - clinical hours for APPIC internship applications - shows that there is no difference.

Maybe someone should do a study to examine if there is more clinically-relevant coursework, or more supervision time. Hey, what a sec... good idea.
 
erg923 said:
PsyD programs are more clinically focused is false statement with no empirical backing or proof. They have about the same of one thing and about none of the other.
Click to expand...
It's clear that they are more clinically focused [than they are on research] and in terms of clinical:research ratio are more clinically focused than a PhD. So is a counseling MS, no one is claiming they train better than a PhD
 
clinpsyc87 said:
It's clear that they are more clinically focused [than they are on research] and in terms of clinical:research ratio are more clinically focused than a PhD. So is a counseling MS, no one is claiming they train better than a PhD
Click to expand...

It is "clear" based on...? Because they said/say so?
 
clinpsyc87 said:
You previously said "none of the other" so it's obviously clear to YOU
Click to expand...

I just meant I disagree with the statement and the specific wording of "they are more clinically focused." I would argue they are solely clinically focused, not "more"...which is a comparative term, right?
 
clinpsyc87 said:
It's clear that they are more clinically focused [than they are on research]
Click to expand...
Based on the training philosophy, I think everyone can agree to this as a within program characteristic but not a between program difference.

and in terms of clinical:research ratio are more clinically focused than a PhD.
Click to expand...
Yes, based on the training philosophy. I think the available data also points to a lower research output in publishing. Anecdotally, dissertation requirements tend to be different.

So is a counseling MS,
Click to expand...
I'm unsure what this relates to, research output?

no one is claiming they train better than a PhD
Click to expand...
or worse, agreed.

I think the point breaks down to people saying they want to go to a PsyD program to get more clinical training is not representative of the data we have. If prospective students said they want to go to a PsyD program to get less science training, that may be more accurate.
 
PsychMajorUndergrad18 said:
To the OP: If you can get into a well known and reputable online program then that's a good way to go about it. Another way is to see if you could get into a brick and mortar university like Texas A&M or a local state university and see if you can do a hybrid courseload (aka classes at night and some online classes). A lot of my friends at my undergrad program are adults around your age and still maintain a daily job (or in your case taking care of your children) while going 2 or 3 times a week to a night class and do a couple online classes a week. You could definitely graduate in a timely manner that way.
Click to expand...

I'm going to check out University of North Texas and Texas Woman's University further and look into their "non-traditional" classes options in addition to their traditional classroom instruction as well. Good advice. Thanks 🙂
 
Rationalthought said:
You dont need a Psyd to do therapy but I will say after completing my Masters. My therapy competency has improved greatly since i completed most of the coursework for my PsyD. My theoretical knowledge is more in depth.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I wasn't satisfied with just stopping with my Master's- but I do realize I might have to pause afterwards to get my feet wet and start working. I also am interested in one day teaching on the college level so I would need a PsyD or PhD for that, because of that I wanted to make sure I am making the best decisions possible now. Thank's for that insight.
 
PsychMajorUndergrad18 said:
Oh and another thing, in the case of the OP she will be just going to school most likely and so she will most likely not have any prior clinical experience unless she does a internship or volunteer. So, RationalThought, your point you made does not apply to the OP due to the fact she is most likely on a tight schedule (from what she said) to get her degree and its most likely that she may not have any clinical experience.

Match and Point 😉
Click to expand...

Both UNT and TWU have volunteer/internship opportunities so I would welcome that opportunity, but as of now, no I have not have any clinical experience.
 
WisNeuro said:
And, the added salary may not mean much at all if she's carrying 200k+ in debt.
Click to expand...
DynamicDidactic said:
To the OP, at this point I doubt you are checking the thread b/c it has derailed. In case you are...

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. You are thinking about a graduate school degree that will take 5-7 years to complete but you are not currently sure where to finish an undergrad degree.

For your situation, you are best off finding universities with strong psych depts but also flexible classes. Whether that be evening or online. OneNeuroDoc gave you lots of information and you need to find something that fits for you. Do not go the all online route but find something more flexible than the traditional university schedule. Take summer classes and winter break classes if possible. Its highly recommended that you get some research experience as well.

Once you do that, then you will need to decide what type if job you most want. Your goals may change by then. Closer to that point you can start figuring out your next step.
Click to expand...

Agreed! Thank you.
 
Since the PsyD vs. PhD battle was getting so heated I will share what led me to lean towards the PsyD


* The PsyD degree is awarded only in psychology and only in the "professional" areas of clinical and counseling psychology--not, for example, in subfields like social or developmental psychology. The major difference between the PsyD and the PhD is the emphasis on research. The PhD degree prepares clinical psychologists to be researchers (as well as practitioners); whereas, the PsyD prepares clinicians to be consumers of research (as well as practitioners). Thus, PhD programs require students to take more courses in research design and statistics and to conduct research compared to PsyD programs. In addition, PsyD programs place considerable emphasis on the provision of psychological services. If you're interested in a detailed discussion of the differences between the PsyD and PhD degrees, read the following article:

Scheirer, C.J. (1983). Professional schools: Information for students and advisors. Teaching of Psychology, 10, 11-15.
​
In general I liked the idea of the PsyD better than the PhD. I have little qualms about taking statistics and learning more about research design (which I will be doing to keep things well rounded) but the real meat and potatoes that excites me is working with people to help them, like therapy has helped me in my life.

That being said, I would one day like to teach, but if all the programs around me are only PhD and not PsyD programs, then I will do a PhD program. My kids would be much older by then and, theoretically, I would have the time to devote myself to it fully. Again, like a previous poster said this is all very far into the future and maybe I would be content with counseling individuals/families, or working with drug addictions... It's hard to anticipate what I will be drawn to as I continue this journey. I just wanted to make sure I started off on the right foot and I believe I will.

On a final note, thank you all again for all your feedback. It really did help me a great deal!!!
 
Last edited:
Erin.S said:
The major difference between the PsyD and the PhD is the emphasis on research. The PhD degree prepares clinical psychologists to be researchers (as well as practitioners); whereas, the PsyD prepares clinicians to be consumers of research (as well as practitioners).​
!
Click to expand...

Just a side note, this may have been true well before the 80's. Definitely not true now.
 
Folks tend, on average, to take longer to complete a Ph.D. than a Psy.D. (for a variety of reasons, I'm sure), at least per APPIC data. By that same data, Ph.D. students have, on average, more face-to-face clinical hours (at least last time I checked). I don't believe the data tracks/asks about clinically-related coursework, so I have no idea how that stacks up between the two. It's important to note that most folks graduating from Ph.D. programs go on to predominantly clinical positions. By that same token, there are certainly individuals from Psy.D. programs who go on to professorships and research-oriented positions.

Basically, at this point, rather than looking at one degree vs. the other, I'd suggest just evaluating each program individually, regardless of degree type. Look at the outcome metrics, the types of research and clinical work being conducted, the classes required and offered, the available practicum placements, the ratio of professors to students, admissions statistics related to your own credentials, etc. Then use all that to make an informed program-by-program decision as to whether it looks like somewhere you'd want to spend 4+ years of your life training.
 
Erin.S said:
Since the PsyD vs. PhD battle was getting so heated I will share what led me to lean towards the PsyD


* The PsyD degree is awarded only in psychology and only in the "professional" areas of clinical and counseling psychology--not, for example, in subfields like social or developmental psychology. The major difference between the PsyD and the PhD is the emphasis on research. The PhD degree prepares clinical psychologists to be researchers (as well as practitioners); whereas, the PsyD prepares clinicians to be consumers of research (as well as practitioners). Thus, PhD programs require students to take more courses in research design and statistics and to conduct research compared to PsyD programs. In addition, PsyD programs place considerable emphasis on the provision of psychological services. If you're interested in a detailed discussion of the differences between the PsyD and PhD degrees, read the following article:

Scheirer, C.J. (1983). Professional schools: Information for students and advisors. Teaching of Psychology, 10, 11-15.
​
In general I liked the idea of the PsyD better than the PhD. I have little qualms about taking statistics and learning more about research design (which I will be doing to keep things well rounded) but the real meat and potatoes that excites me is working with people to help them, like therapy has helped me in my life.

That being said, I would one day like to teach, but if all the programs around me are only PhD and not PsyD programs, then I will do a PhD program. My kids would be much older by then and, theoretically, I would have the time to devote myself to it fully. Again, like a previous poster said this is all very far into the future and maybe I would be content with counseling individuals/families, or working with drug addictions... It's hard to anticipate what I will be drawn to as I continue this journey. I just wanted to make sure I started off on the right foot and I believe I will.

On a final note, thank you all again for all your feedback. It really did help me a great deal!!!
Click to expand...

Hello Erin.S,

Another option that you have if you ever wanna teach in the future (after you get your Psy.D or if you end up doing a Ph.D) is to become whats called a part-time instructor (aka. an adjunct professor). You will be able to teach classes that fall into your area of expertise while also keeping a full time job as a practitioner (you will probably work a couple nights or mornings with the reward being you make some good pocket money to maybe ad to your kids' college fund or spend more money on a vacation [just thoughts going though my head right now]). So basically you'd be able to still keep on practicing while picking up some teaching duties for extra cash.

Good Luck on your Journey Erin.S,
PsychMajorUndergrad18
 
Rick4001s said:
Here is a story about an interesting study concerning online education:

http://chronicle.com/article/In-a-Fake-Online-Class-With/34687
Click to expand...


Interesting study, but I don't think its questions of online cheating apply to students who want to pursue a PhD/PsyD. People who have already had successful careers and/or families, and then discover a strong desire to switch paths (e.g., go back to school) are most likely sacrificing good salaries, stability, etc. While acceptance into a program is an honor, it's still a sacrifice for nontraditional students who already have stability. Also, considering the work they will face as future doctoral students, why would online students choose to cheat? They would never last in a doctoral program, and my hypothesis is that their lack of knowledge would be quite obvious in interviews.
 
futurepsych01 said:
Also, considering the work they will face as future doctoral students, why would online students choose to cheat?
Click to expand...

If you give any group of people an incentive (students, test subjects, Vets, anyone), a subset will almost always try to game the system. We see this across studies, across clinical groups, etc. Of course some will cheat.
 
Related to that, the sheer competitiveness of psychology doctoral programs might lead someone in that direction (i.e., same reason a pre-med student might cheat). Add on the various life stressors a non-trad student might be experiencing, and that could potentially push one closer toward justifying the behavior.

Not saying it happens more or less often than in other undergraduate students, but there's certainly ample incentive.
 
WisNeuro said:
If you give any group of people an incentive (students, test subjects, Vets, anyone), a subset will almost always try to game the system. We see this across studies, across clinical groups, etc. Of course some will cheat.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And perhaps those with psychopathic traits
 
AcronymAllergy said:
Related to that, the sheer competitiveness of psychology doctoral programs might lead someone in that direction (i.e., same reason a pre-med student might cheat). Add on the various life stressors a non-trad student might be experiencing, and that could potentially push one closer toward justifying the behavior.

Not saying it happens more or less often than in other undergraduate students, but there's certainly ample incentive.
Click to expand...


True. There's also evidence that academic cheating can contribute to the making of white collar criminals. My point was to add commentary from the other side of the argument. My peers in my online courses were mostly professionals going back to school for a variety of reasons. However, I think there is still a stigma that online courses are easy (and attract students who want to skate/cheat). At least that's what the poster implied, "the concerns of online education." In my experience, science and stats classes could be considered more difficult than meeting in a face to face course because they require self-discipline and time management (although one should already utilize these skills if he/she is coming from another profession).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
Need for advice clinical psychology phd
Replies
3
Views
2K
Therapist4Chnge
T
J
Alliant International University—Fresno (Psy.D.)
Replies
5
Views
4K
NeuroObsessed
N
trissydersh61
Guidance on Psy.D vs Ph.D and resume/CV for programs
Replies
2
Views
2K
smalltownpsych
smalltownpsych
S
What are my chances of being accepted into a Psy.D. program?
Replies
31
Views
3K
Sanman
Sanman
R
Pop Psychology
Replies
6
Views
984
Sanman
Sanman
Top