Need advice and....

[DrUnknown]

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I want to give you guys some advice.

So im a first year medical student in Hungary. I read a lot of great things about Hungary so i applied here, said and done I got accepted.

The university i study in is called Pecs University, located ofcourse in the city called Pecs.

I will describe the situation here with 1 word. HORRIBLE. Why?
They where suppose to take 140 students this year, but accepted about 220.

This is a big problem, all groups are quite big. I spend about 25% of my time in chemistrylabs, for doing the ACTULLY lab. The rest goes to find all the compounds etc etc. All classrooms are FULL, sometimes you cant even find a chair.

Even if they accepted 140 students, they wouldnt have enough space for everyone to pass the first semester even. Cause they can only take about 80 students for the second semester in anatomy.

So what they do is this: If you want to get excempted from some subject like biophysics, you need now 80 procent on both tests we have before the semesterfinals. Last year it was about 50 procent.
This is just one example, there are more.

And many of you dont know this, so let me clearify how the semesterfinals works. In biology this semester we have 57 different topics that we have to know for the semesterfinal. All tests here are oral tests except chemistry.
So you will go to a room pick 3 topics from a box (random) and you have to know all your 3 topics, if you fail one you are out.

Its a smart system, because if you fail and most likely you will end up failing some subject sooner or later, then you have to wait until the next year to re-take it. So they put the students in this circle to cash out more money from them. Its all about the money. All.

The quality of the education has been great for this university for many years and the reputation too. But this boat is sicking, and very fast. Titanic-fast.

Now, I dont want to hear that "you have to study...." because I do.
But in this condition with theese rules there are nothing but problems expecting the students.

Now, I need some advice here.
Im thinking about going to another country the next year, because i know that most students who study medicine here has to calculate about 8 years for medicine and not 6 years. And im sure it will only get worse.

So, ive read a lot about ukraine and a lot of people here say bad things.
Now, let me tell you first of all, i dont care about the crimerate, I dont care about the luxury things, I just care about the education itself, if its possible to pass it or not. I can live anywhere in the world where I can get my own room with a bed and a desk with a chair. Thats all I need.

Anyone know a university in Ukraine which is a little university?
English-speaking program for medicine ofcourse. I dont want to go to the unviersity of kiev. I want to go to some smal city where most tourists and students dont apply too. That would fit me very well.

Thanks.

 

[Aria2012]

We just had our chemistry lab half an hour ago, from a distance less than 3 hours from you. What you've been saying has been extremely interesting and I must say that I appreciate your sense of being a student. And what actaully makes it more interesting is that we were talking about other medical school in the neighbouring countries this morning!
I'm staying in Hungary to finish up my job and I will do it in 6 years and not more than that (I'm looking at people who are in 5th, 6th year every morning and they've been at school for the same period of time and not more than that!) So if they could do it, I will do it too.
As far as the Ukrainian medical school, the only thing that I can tell you is that the cost of living is way lower than down in here. I have no clue about the level of education, I have no clue about the education system. But I know one thing, biophysics is not offered as a part of the curriculum! lol
You take care and try to put that smile on forever, we need it to put the title of Dr. on and start serving our global society. 🙂
There is any questions, either p.m me or post it down here. I'm afraid I wouldnt be able to provide you with my MSN/yahoo messengers (I hope ive not being rude).

Have a nice evening,


Aria

 

[hopskipjump]

I always thought that hungary would be similar to prague but looks like i was wrong. class numbers are about 80 in first year but after that they weed out the strugglers very quickly and numbers begin to drop. By 2nd/3rd year class size is very good.
Oral exams are standard issue in europe and def require getting used to, so you can expect them everywhere. The 70% pass rate is very difficult, considering its a first at home and just a pass here.
Bottom line is, we didnt bother studying when we were younger so we have to make up for it now by working that little bit harder. My advice is stick it out, keep your head down and numbers will drop and you can get the education you deserve in hungary.
They sound a little bit more money hungry than i imagined (220!)

 

[brightblueeyes]

Oral exams are standard issue in europe and def require getting used to, so you can expect them everywhere.

Everywhere in Europe? Not true.

And in addition to not using oral exams, the med school programs in a couple of Western European countries seem to be even more progressive and focused on the needs of students than Canadian and American med schools. (France isn't one of those countries, though. I get the impression the UK isn't either.)

 

[hopskipjump]

sorry should have said eastern european uni's. Orals are difficult if your not used to them. I personally feel they can be unfair. Even if you answer your question, the examiner can drift off onto somthing else and fail you if you dont know. At least with written, your answer is definite and objective.

 

[Meatwad]

If you think Hungary is bad, you'd have to be crazy to think Ukraine is better. A third of the country is living in absolute poverty, it is politically unstable, and its still trying to recover from the Soviet era. I'm sure the education for Ukrainians (in the Ukrainian language, maybe the Russian program too) is excellent; but I'd expect the English language program will be just as poor as the one you're receiving in Pecs.

The further east you get, the more wary I'd be of the medical school (if it teaches in English). Most of these schools are in pretty poor economic shape. Hungary is doing well these days; Budapest is one of the biggest hotspots in Europe, and it's getting expensive to live here. You can't say the same about Kiev, or Oddessa (no offense to Ukrainians meant). Any school in Ukraine, Russia, Bulgaria, etc. is going to try and squeeze you for money as well.

Honestly, this is why going off to a foreign country without living there for a while and being familiar with the culture and the "way things work," is a really bad idea. Especially in ex-soviet countries (Ukraine, Belarus, etc.), corruption is supposedly a big problem. I.e., you pay you pass. I'd really, really suggest you reconsider going back to your home country and try to get into medical school there, stick it out in Hungary, or go to the Czech Republic or Poland (schools I've heard a fair amount of praise for).

 

[shreypete]

hey there,

I would recommend you to try prague. The Charles First Faculty of Medicine (there are 5) has also got a 630 yr. reputation. The 1st yr. has 107 students along with 15 dentistry students. The BEST part about the univ. is that they split the 107 into 5 different groups which is quite convenient and the student to teacher ratio is maintained well. we have chemistry in the 2nd yr. and biology and genetics starting from the 2nd semester.
here's a list of the 1st yr. subjects:
biophysics (1 semester)
anatomy 1,2
anatomical dissections 1,2
physical education 1,2
czech language 1,2
medical latin/greek terminology 1,2
histology (1 semester)
first aid (1 sem.)
medical informatics 1,2

the language barrier like in any other country also exists in czech republic despite the fact that the univ. is centrally located in the capital of the country, Prague. However, prague is an awesome place and there are lots of international students which makes it quite comfortable to live in. they do "weed out" a lot of students by the end of the 1st two yrs. like in most of the other european medical schools.

 

[brightblueeyes]

hey there,

I would recommend you to try prague. The Charles First Faculty of Medicine (there are 5) has also got a 630 yr. reputation. The 1st yr. has 107 students along with 15 dentistry students. The BEST part about the univ. is that they split the 107 into 5 different groups which is quite convenient and the student to teacher ratio is maintained well. we have chemistry in the 2nd yr. and biology and genetics starting from the 2nd semester.
here's a list of the 1st yr. subjects:
biophysics (1 semester)
anatomy 1,2
anatomical dissections 1,2
physical education 1,2
czech language 1,2
medical latin/greek terminology 1,2
histology (1 semester)
first aid (1 sem.)
medical informatics 1,2

the language barrier like in any other country also exists in czech republic despite the fact that the univ. is centrally located in the capital of the country, Prague. However, prague is an awesome place and there are lots of international students which makes it quite comfortable to live in. they do "weed out" a lot of students by the end of the 1st two yrs. like in most of the other european medical schools.

?? Most European med schools certainly don't do this. As far as I know, it's only some (all?) the schools in formerly communist countries like Hungary and the Czech Republic and French-speaking schools in Western Europe. And in the French-speaking schools, this so-called weeding-out is simply a set of admissions exams.

Some Western European med schools are quite tough to get into, but once you're in, the programs are well organized and the schools go out of their way to take care of you. As I alluded in a previous post, in some cases this appears to be even more than in American and Canadian schools. (Again, French schools, modern as they are in some ways, aren't in this group. I suspect schools in Ireland, the UK, Spain, Portugal and Italy aren't either.)

 

[shreypete]

. I suspect schools in Ireland, the UK, Spain, Portugal and Italy aren't either.)

.

I'm sorry....it's not most...just a few of them....yeah the medical schools in UK, Italy,spain, portugal and france do weed out students just like the they do in the central european countries (czech repub., poland, and hungary)....even some german schools are like this (university of jena, heidelberg coz they're on teh top 5 list in germany)......

 

[brightblueeyes]

.

I'm sorry....it's not most...just a few of them....yeah the medical schools in UK, Italy,spain, portugal and france do weed out students just like the they do in the central european countries (czech repub., poland, and hungary)....even some german schools are like this (university of jena, heidelberg coz they're on teh top 5 list in germany)......

I wasn't suggesting that the universities of these Western European countries try to weed out students. (Italian schools used to do this, but they don't anymore.) I meant they weren't as progressive in their approach to education as some other European countries.

As for German med schools, they've always had a reputation for being hard. But anyone with good enough grades to make it into one of them shouldn't fail. It sounds like some of them are even trying to modernize their approach, give more practical training and give their students a fair bit of support (all more so than in France...which is the opposite of how it used to be). In this way, they're more like the other schools of Northern Western Europe. I'm not getting into some sort of loaded discussion about German med school rankings, but I'm not so sure Jena should be in their top 5 (although I'm sure it's quite good).

 

[shreypete]

I'm not so sure Jena should be in their top 5 (although I'm sure it's quite good).

well it's actually kind of tough to rank the european medical schools (unlike the american and the canadian ones) because all the medical schools (which teach in their native programs) are quite good. This is probably the reason why you might not find any official sites that rank the european medical schools. All Medical universities in germany are quite good and they can't be precisely ranked and this applies to the rest of europe. For eg. University of Salamanca in Spain and the Leden Univeristy in Netherlands can't actually be ranked in a certain order...

 

[hopskipjump]

im trying to follow the point your trying to make brightblueyes and im lost?
western schools are hard to get into but once your in its plain sailing. not becaused thery are more organised or look after you better, its because you have already proved yourslf in the admissions and only require 50/60% in exams during the course. eg. "club med" in ireland and england.
eastern schools are easier to get into but harder to get out of.
Basically study your ass off when your young and get in to ireland england etc or mess around, get into eastern school and work your ass off then.
Maybe wetern schools should do more weeding out in college as working hard when your young doent mean you will be able to keep on the straight and narrow in college (whole different world!). And maybe eastern colleges should make entrance exams harder for intermational students so they wont have to do so much weeding out in following years. (not so much money then though?!)
each college is different so its hard to generalise. hungary doesnt sound to organised in the above opinion, and there admissions leave alot to be desired, but also i do hear thet germany in there ever efficient way will weed out student during college.
Maybe the germans have got it right?

 

[DrUnknown]

If you think Hungary is bad, you'd have to be crazy to think Ukraine is better. A third of the country is living in absolute poverty, it is politically unstable, and its still trying to recover from the Soviet era. I'm sure the education for Ukrainians (in the Ukrainian language, maybe the Russian program too) is excellent; but I'd expect the English language program will be just as poor as the one you're receiving in Pecs.

The further east you get, the more wary I'd be of the medical school (if it teaches in English). Most of these schools are in pretty poor economic shape. Hungary is doing well these days; Budapest is one of the biggest hotspots in Europe, and it's getting expensive to live here. You can't say the same about Kiev, or Oddessa (no offense to Ukrainians meant). Any school in Ukraine, Russia, Bulgaria, etc. is going to try and squeeze you for money as well.

Honestly, this is why going off to a foreign country without living there for a while and being familiar with the culture and the "way things work," is a really bad idea. Especially in ex-soviet countries (Ukraine, Belarus, etc.), corruption is supposedly a big problem. I.e., you pay you pass. I'd really, really suggest you reconsider going back to your home country and try to get into medical school there, stick it out in Hungary, or go to the Czech Republic or Poland (schools I've heard a fair amount of praise for).

So what if there is a lot of criminality in ukraine?
I dont care, im not the person who goes out anyways.
I go to univ, i go home, i eat and study and then repeat.

I just want to go to a univ where they pass students who know their stuff and dont fail em because they accepted to many students.

Is that to much to ask for?

 

[Meatwad]

So what if there is a lot of criminality in ukraine?
I dont care, im not the person who goes out anyways.
I go to univ, i go home, i eat and study and then repeat.

I just want to go to a univ where they pass students who know their stuff and dont fail em because they accepted to many students.

Is that to much to ask for?

Living in a safe environment has nothing to do with nightlife. Ukraine is politically unstable. Would you go to medical school in Afghanistan? North Korea? Iraq? I wouldn't, and it has nothing to do with what I do in my spare time. It has to do with my safety, basic level of comfort, and ability to move in and out of the country at my desire. You are lying to yourself, or extremely naive, if you don't believe that the living conditions of a country should come into play when selecting a school.

Also, considering Ukraine's economic shape in comparison to Hungary, what makes you think it will be better and not worse there? You think they won't hold you back a year to squeeze more tuition out of you there? Look into the University of Zagreb if you don't want to go to Poland or Prague; booming city, safe atmosphere, politically stable, supposedly progressive curriculum, etc. I've never heard of any corruption there, although I have heard unflattering remarkes made about Serbian, Romanian, Ukrainian, and Russian schools.

 

[Meatwad]

well it's actually kind of tough to rank the european medical schools (unlike the american and the canadian ones) because all the medical schools (which teach in their native programs) are quite good. This is probably the reason why you might not find any official sites that rank the european medical schools. All Medical universities in germany are quite good and they can't be precisely ranked and this applies to the rest of europe. For eg. University of Salamanca in Spain and the Leden Univeristy in Netherlands can't actually be ranked in a certain order...

You realize the bolded statement is implying that American and Canadian universities aren't "quite good," don't you? You said you can't rank European ones because they are good, but you can rank American/Canadian ones? Why so? Because they aren't good? US medical school rankings are useless, which is why no one in the medical field here truly pays attention to them. It's done by clueless third parties, like US News, a publication that is known for ranking undergraduate colleges.

It's no more tougher to rank European medical schools than it is to rank US schools, other than the fact Europe is not one country, therefore it's much more difficult to organize criteria since curricula vary so much.

All US medical schools are of the highest quality, and it's impossible to try and rank Yale vs. Harvard vs. McGill vs. McMaster vs. Washington University vs. Columbia vs. University of Pennsylvania, etc.

 

[shreypete]

I'm sorry...my mistake...i should have rephrased that statement. I didn't mean that the american and canadian medical schools are bad....in fact all of them are really good....man why wouldn't they be? they have some of the toughest admission standards in the world (unlike some of the central european countries where the entry is quite easy but staying in is the trick)....

I was just saying that it's really impossible to rank european med schools as there are so many countries in europe and tons of medical colleges that were established from thte 12th century on......so sometimes oldest doesn't mean the best....this specifically applies to the english medical programs in europe.....

 

[shreypete]

So what if there is a lot of criminality in ukraine?
I dont care, im not the person who goes out anyways.
I go to univ, i go home, i eat and study and then repeat.

I just want to go to a univ where they pass students who know their stuff and dont fail em because they accepted to many students.

Is that to much to ask for?

you just have to suck it up. i can personally tell you that it's quite tough even in Prague (where i'm studying) and the "weeding out" process is quite tough but ultimately all these guys want is to see the "initiative" in you. arrange consultations, talk to profs., talk to seniors, work really hard..do whatever it takes to get you through...and you'll soon realize that everything's just getting much better and that the profs. just want to make you a "knowledgeable"doctor at the end of the day..and if you actually take the time to get to know them and to ask them questions when you're having problems, you might be surprised that they're actually willing to help.

hey think of it this way. you got in easy so you have to pay a price for that, don't ya think?.....and you can do it....just do whatever it takes to get you there.....i can tell you that ukraine will be a lot worse in terms of the environment (safety due to the high crime rate although the girls are gorgeous--random) and it doesn't have much reputation in europe either (i say this because i had a cousin study there and he couldn't go back to the US or even practice in any other european country)....so you might wanna re-think your decision....good luck...

 

[sirus]

............. US medical school rankings are useless, which is why no one in the medical field here truly pays attention to them. It's done by clueless third parties, like US News, a publication that is known for ranking undergraduate colleges.

It's no more tougher to rank European medical schools than it is to rank US schools, other than the fact Europe is not one country, therefore it's much more difficult to organize criteria since curricula vary so much.

All US medical schools are of the highest quality, and it's impossible to try and rank Yale vs. Harvard vs. McGill vs. McMaster vs. Washington University vs. Columbia vs. University of Pennsylvania, etc.

I was quite relieved to see this. Here in the U.K., paying any attention to detailed rankings is a relatively new phenomenon and I'm really hoping that it will be allowed to wither in infancy!
I have always been dismayed at the number of people coming on the forums asking for impossible rankings of Carib. or Euro. schools. So it was good news to hear that knowledgeable folk in America don't actually give them much credence.