Need advice on SMPs and its urgent. I've already reviewed the offical thread.

[bluv1212]

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Hi everyone. I applied pretty late to this current cycle and received one interview. I knew applying late was detrimental but life happend - I also realize now that my GPA, specifically my science GPA is really subpar.

While officially graduated with ~3.4 cGPA with Honors from the University of Connecticut, I neglected the fact that the MCAST does not accommodate repeat classes - that all classes stand alone. On the MCAST my cGPA is ~3.0, BCPM is~2.8, and my AO is ~3.6.

All these factors, in addition to my lack of success this cycle, have led me to believe that I desperately need to take part in an SMP.

I have some questions, though:

1) the official thread says you apply to med before the start of your SMP and send updates often. While I see how this might aid in getting you interviews, I am concerned that I would be languishing at the bottom of the applicant pool at most schools despite my best efforts in the SMP. Does anyone get accepted into medical school before completion of their SMP, or will i have to wait another year? How effective is Bostons U's SMP program in getting students into their own medical school, and or, others? Can you suggest any others in the NY-New England area that will allow me to complete in 1 year?

2)How does financial aid work? do i just fill out my fafsa, send it to the SMP before I apply to get aid for the fall?

3)How do students enlisted in an SMP attend interviews despite a challenging curriculum? Is it difficult to manage?


Thank you for any insight. I need to get on this soon to ensure my spot in the program, so quick responses are much appreciated.

 

[deleted248403]

Hi everyone. I applied pretty late to this current cycle and received one interview. I knew applying late was detrimental but life happend - I also realize now that my GPA, specifically my science GPA is really subpar.

While officially graduated with ~3.4 cGPA with Honors from the University of Connecticut, I neglected the fact that the MCAST does not accommodate repeat classes - that all classes stand alone. On the MCAST my cGPA is ~3.0, BCPM is~2.8, and my AO is ~3.6.
What the hell is MCAST? Is this the dental version of AMCAS? Or did you just misspeak....

My MCAT is 30R (10ps,10v,10bs) solid but won't make up for your low GPA. You could consider repeating this to help show you can handle the work. Or you cannot - with your current GPA it might be worth if you want MD. DO then don't bother

All these factors, in addition to my lack of success this cycle, have led me to believe that I desperately need to take part in an SMP.

I have some questions, though:

1) the official thread says you apply to med before the start of your SMP and send updates often the official thread prob says most people do this if they have like a 3.2-3.4 cGPA to start with.. While I see how this might aid in getting you interviews, I am concerned that I would be languishing at the bottom of the applicant pool at most schools despite my best efforts in the SMP. Does anyone get accepted into medical school before completion of their SMP, or will i have to wait another year?You should wait to apply given how poor your GPA is. You'll need to take a glide year while applying How effective is Bostons U's SMP program in getting students into their own medical school, and or, others? You won't get into BU MAMS with a 3.0, or at least very unlikely. Can you suggest any others in the NY-New England area that will allow me to complete in 1 year? We have a thread about this, but Tufts has an MBS program which again you will be on the low end

2)How does financial aid work? do i just fill out my fafsa, send it to the SMP before I apply to get aid for the fall? I think so, i'm not really good with this financial aid crap

3)How do students enlisted in an SMP attend interviews despite a challenging curriculum? Is it difficult to manage? They make it work. In you case, I wouldn't try it - as mentioned you should take a glide year given how low your stats are. You won't get any love without a solid years worth of SMP grades under your belt


Thank you for any insight. I need to get on this soon to ensure my spot in the program, so quick responses are much appreciated.

See the red

 

[DrMidlife]

Hi everyone. I applied pretty late to this current cycle and received one interview. I knew applying late was detrimental but life happend - I also realize now that my GPA, specifically my science GPA is really subpar.

They're both subpar. 3.6 is average.

While officially graduated with ~3.4 cGPA with Honors from the University of Connecticut, I neglected the fact that the MCAST does not accommodate repeat classes - that all classes stand alone. On the MCAST my cGPA is ~3.0, BCPM is~2.8, and my AO is ~3.6.

It makes no difference what UConn says on its transcript, if med schools don't forgive repeated coursework. Same rules for everybody.

DO schools forgive repeated coursework, if you want to try that route.

I think you mean AMCAS.

My MCAT is 30R (10ps,10v,10bs)

This is a nice score, but like mine, it's below the MD average of 32. With a below-average GPA, you really should think about going after an above-average MCAT (before you start an SMP).

All these factors, in addition to my lack of success this cycle, have led me to believe that I desperately need to take part in an SMP.

It's really late to be applying to good SMPs. Most apps opened last October and closed April 1. Good SMPs are very competitive.

1) the official thread

No idea what thread you're referring to. Linking to it would help.

says you apply to med before the start of your SMP and send updates often. While I see how this might aid in getting you interviews, I am concerned that I would be languishing at the bottom of the applicant pool at most schools despite my best efforts in the SMP.

Yep, that's what happens. A same-year-as-SMP app is a late app. You can wait to apply again until after you finish the SMP for better results.

Does anyone get accepted into medical school before completion of their SMP, or will i have to wait another year?

People seem to fall into a few categories:
1. SMPs that accept lots of their own students (Temple, Tulane ACP, EVMS, Cincinnati) usually accept them in May or June, after completion of the SMP.
2. Students whose GPAs aren't that bad (3.4 or better) tend to get same-year acceptances from other schools.
3. Students whose GPAs are multiple standard deviations below the median tend to not get same-year acceptances from other schools, even with above average MCAT scores.

How effective is Bostons U's SMP program in getting students into their own medical school, and or, others?

It's not very effective at either, for a same-year app, nor does it tend to be a program you can complete in one year.

Can you suggest any others in the NY-New England area that will allow me to complete in 1 year?

See the "GPA enhancement" sticky in the postbac forum.

2)How does financial aid work? do i just fill out my fafsa, send it to the SMP before I apply to get aid for the fall?

The "M" in SMP means it's grad work, so yes.

3)How do students enlisted in an SMP attend interviews despite a challenging curriculum? Is it difficult to manage?

Difficult, not impossible. It's reasonable to be gone; you have to keep up with the material anyway.

Best of luck to you.

 

[thomyorke]

LOL MCAST. That's a new one.

Anyways, I actually think you have a shot at Tufts and an outside shot at BU. Your MCAT is pretty solid (probably even a bit above average for these programs) and even though your AMCAS GPA's are low, given the good GPA you've graduated with I'd say it's a safe assumption that you probably did very well in the courses that you repeated/ pre-medical requirements. I think this may actually bode well for you. In addition, the official transcript from UConn (which the SMPs you apply to receive) will state your GPA as a 3.4. I would NOT submit your AMCAS to them with your application. No need to draw attention to those two low GPA's.

I'd say the big kicker for you will be what kind of experience/ EC's you have. If these are solid I think you'll definitely get into one of the Boston SMP's. Also, for the sake of medical school I'd take some summer courses post-bacc before you enter the SMP and try to get the BCPM up above 3.0. This is pretty critical when you apply to med school (see other forums where this has been argued a million times). In many cases, 3.0 will be an automatic GPA cut-off below which your application is essentially discarded.

 

[cormorant1]

Stop and think a second. Let's add up all the factors before deciding on a SMP:

1) They are expensive (BU will run you at least $30,000 I believe, not counting living expenses). You will need financial aid, therefore you'll be in debt from the program

2) If you do not do well in the program, you won't get in to any medical schools

3) The degree you get from a SMP is quasi-useless

4) The programs are competitive and the work is hard

1+2+3+4 = You'll be working like there's a gun held to your head for a year (or longer, depending on the program). Well, a metaphorical gun at least, one that represents the huge amount you have to lose if you don't do extremely well. If that sounds like a fun way to live, I highly recommend Tufts MBS, BU MAMS, or Georgetown. Or U Cincy.

If it doesn't, but you still want to do it anyways, then apply only to programs that have linkages (i.e. EVMS, RFU, and I think Temple). These programs will at least guarantee that if you work really hard, you'll get in to medical school. The same is not so for non-linkage programs.

 

[bluv1212]

Thank you both for your insight. I realize how low my GPA is, and that SMP will be difficult. I am confident that I can do well, i just bombarded myself with difficult classes in college at a time when i was not mature enough to handle it. I believe I have grown since then - which doesn't mean an SMP would be easy, but where there's a will... right?

I am setting my sight on NYMC, temple looks promising. I will look for SMP's with linkages.

I'm sorry if you come across the other two of my posts - I'm sure you can relate to my feeling of desperation. There is certainly an abundance of it on SDN.

 

[bluv1212]

LOL MCAST. That's a new one.

Anyways, I actually think you have a shot at Tufts and an outside shot at BU. Your MCAT is pretty solid (probably even a bit above average for these programs) and even though your AMCAS GPA's are low, given the good GPA you've graduated with I'd say it's a safe assumption that you probably did very well in the courses that you repeated/ pre-medical requirements. I think this may actually bode well for you. In addition, the official transcript from UConn (which the SMPs you apply to receive) will state your GPA as a 3.4. I would NOT submit your AMCAS to them with your application. No need to draw attention to those two low GPA's.

I'd say the big kicker for you will be what kind of experience/ EC's you have. If these are solid I think you'll definitely get into one of the Boston SMP's. Also, for the sake of medical school I'd take some summer courses post-bacc before you enter the SMP and try to get the BCPM up above 3.0. This is pretty critical when you apply to med school (see other forums where this has been argued a million times). In many cases, 3.0 will be an automatic GPA cut-off below which your application is essentially discarded.

Thanks ThomYorke ( nice user name) for the glimmer of hope you offer.

I don't know why but a lot of my friends who are currently in med school refer to the application as the MCAST. I think i say it out of habit, sorry.

extracurriculars are decent i think - research for 2 years, will be published, shadowing prob about 50 hours not including general hospital volunteering, community service, organizations in college. Currently tutoring under contract with Dept. of Ed, and starting a temp research opportunity in a week while shadowing surgical team.

I am currently leaning towards NYMC's SMP since it is closest to my home. I have a priority list of the philly SMP's, UMDNJ ( i think thats the acronym), and some others. I know Temple has good linkage, but can you suggest any others, specifically ones close to CT.

It sounds like you favor a post-bacc program? do you know of anyone completing that in a year? If you had to choose, which one do you think is more significant, SMP or Post-Bacc? Are you suggesting that schools may set my app aside even if i am successful in an SMP due to my GPA?

again thanks for your optimism, and I apologize in advance if you come across the two other posts i made in desperation.

 

[deleted248403]

You need an SMP not a post-bac and the closest ones to CT are in Boston or NYC/UMDNJ

 

[thomyorke]

Thanks ThomYorke ( nice user name) for the glimmer of hope you offer.

I don't know why but a lot of my friends who are currently in med school refer to the application as the MCAST. I think i say it out of habit, sorry.

extracurriculars are decent i think - research for 2 years, will be published, shadowing prob about 50 hours not including general hospital volunteering, community service, organizations in college. Currently tutoring under contract with Dept. of Ed, and starting a temp research opportunity in a week while shadowing surgical team.

I am currently leaning towards NYMC's SMP since it is closest to my home. I have a priority list of the philly SMP's, UMDNJ ( i think thats the acronym), and some others. I know Temple has good linkage, but can you suggest any others, specifically ones close to CT.

It sounds like you favor a post-bacc program? do you know of anyone completing that in a year? If you had to choose, which one do you think is more significant, SMP or Post-Bacc? Are you suggesting that schools may set my app aside even if i am successful in an SMP due to my GPA?

No problem. You'll find a lot of negativity and gunner mentality on here which can be frustrating but don't let it bring you down. If you know what needs to be done and work hard enough at it, you'll get where you want to be.

Your EC's are very solid. As long as there's a decent GPA trend I like your chances for most of the middle to upper-middle tier SMP's. Definitely go for SMP but I was just saying if you took a few upper division science classes (technically post-bacc but not a formal post-bacc) over the summer you might be able to get that BCPM GPA back above 3, which is important.

As for specific programs, I read some horror stories on SDN about NYMC so never really considered that one (see the "Rate your SMP" thread). I also don't think it's that well known but may help you get into their school. UMDNJ is good if you want to go to their school. It will give you a nice chance to make yourself standout. As far as Philly goes, Temple is great but you have to commit solely to them upon entering the program. Drexel I've also heard lots of mixed reviews and I think there are enough other good options out there that I didn't bother with it.

I am also from the NY metro area and was looking adamantly for an SMP around there but as you mentioned there aren't too many options. Columbia has a program they try to bill as an SMP (a master's in nutrition) but I really don't think this will provide the kind of boost you need.

I will say that I've lived in Boston for the past couple of years working and it's a great place to live. You can pretty much walk everywhere and the city is quite safe. Both Tufts and BU (med) are in very accessible areas and there is plenty of housing within striking distance. Additionally, NYC is always just a quick bus/train ride away. These are both great programs (easily top 5 SMPs out there) so I wouldn't dismiss them completely...even if the thought of living in Boston makes you a bit queasy (as it used to do to me haha).

 

[bluv1212]

No problem. You'll find a lot of negativity and gunner mentality on here which can be frustrating but don't let it bring you down. If you know what needs to be done and work hard enough at it, you'll get where you want to be.

Your EC's are very solid. As long as there's a decent GPA trend I like your chances for most of the middle to upper-middle tier SMP's. Definitely go for SMP but I was just saying if you took a few upper division science classes (technically post-bacc but not a formal post-bacc) over the summer you might be able to get that BCPM GPA back above 3, which is important.

As for specific programs, I read some horror stories on SDN about NYMC so never really considered that one (see the "Rate your SMP" thread). I also don't think it's that well known but may help you get into their school. UMDNJ is good if you want to go to their school. It will give you a nice chance to make yourself standout. As far as Philly goes, Temple is great but you have to commit solely to them upon entering the program. Drexel I've also heard lots of mixed reviews and I think there are enough other good options out there that I didn't bother with it.

I am also from the NY metro area and was looking adamantly for an SMP around there but as you mentioned there aren't too many options. Columbia has a program they try to bill as an SMP (a master's in nutrition) but I really don't think this will provide the kind of boost you need.

I will say that I've lived in Boston for the past couple of years working and it's a great place to live. You can pretty much walk everywhere and the city is quite safe. Both Tufts and BU (med) are in very accessible areas and there is plenty of housing within striking distance. Additionally, NYC is always just a quick bus/train ride away. These are both great programs (easily top 5 SMPs out there) so I wouldn't dismiss them completely...even if the thought of living in Boston makes you a bit queasy (as it used to do to me haha).

Oh man. I hear you on the gunners - it just seems like people are eager to reinforce your most pessimistic feelings.

I will definitely check out the rate the SMP thread as NYMC is closest to home. I am considering also anything in philly, especially temple because of the linkage, which i have no problem with. Tufts and BU i would consider if the deadlines hadn't passed because of their great reputation amongst sdn'rs. I would look into the Post-bac, but I don't think a sGPA above a 3.0 is going to cut it for me. I'm looking to put in the work in the most high-yield way. that method is pretty much what got me here - retaking classes to boost it has only a marginal result with the amount of credits i have, feel me?

My belief is that I can hack most high level classes with the right commitment, med school level or not. college just messed with my head early on, and I've been trying to claw my way back since. I also think my EC's seem okay, but i'm not 'bout to drop the ball yet. Still gonna take the shadowing and research when they are available to me. I think an SMP is right for me, now it's just a matter of which one and where.



Did you eventually settle on an SMP? I really appreciate your input.

 

[bluv1212]

OMG! just saw the lone post for the rate the NYMC SMP. It's horrifying. I am almost done with my APP for that school but may now reconsider.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Please don't post the same thread in multiple forums. The thread in Re-Applicants has been merged into this thread.

 

[deleted248403]

OP - as gospursgo said; this is how you don't make friends around here. AND you posted it in a sticky. Overkill

 

[bluv1212]

Thanks Rob...I mean I already admitted it was a rash decision, apologized to you a couple times, and got an official warning. I get the message, it's really not necessary to rub it in. Plus, I've done a decent job of making friends on here - I really think one offense is forgivable.

 

[thomyorke]

Oh man. I hear you on the gunners - it just seems like people are eager to reinforce your most pessimistic feelings.

I will definitely check out the rate the SMP thread as NYMC is closest to home. I am considering also anything in philly, especially temple because of the linkage, which i have no problem with. Tufts and BU i would consider if the deadlines hadn't passed because of their great reputation amongst sdn'rs. I would look into the Post-bac, but I don't think a sGPA above a 3.0 is going to cut it for me. I'm looking to put in the work in the most high-yield way. that method is pretty much what got me here - retaking classes to boost it has only a marginal result with the amount of credits i have, feel me?

My belief is that I can hack most high level classes with the right commitment, med school level or not. college just messed with my head early on, and I've been trying to claw my way back since. I also think my EC's seem okay, but i'm not 'bout to drop the ball yet. Still gonna take the shadowing and research when they are available to me. I think an SMP is right for me, now it's just a matter of which one and where.



Did you eventually settle on an SMP? I really appreciate your input.

Yep, lots of pessimism can be found on here. On SDN an MCAT below 35 is crap, despite the fact that 30 and up is like 80th+ percentile.

As for me, I've been accepted to a few of the "top" SMP's out there. Still waiting to hear from my top two choices, UConn and Temple, which both have great linkage. They are also extremely competitive so I'm not holding my breath...

What I was saying about your sGPA below 3.0 is that there are literally schools that will screen you out because of this without even considering your SMP grades. This is definitely not true of all schools, and you'll find success stories on here of sub-3.0's rocking SMP/MCAT and getting into good schools. Just keep in mind that SMP classes WILL NOT raise this average to above 3.0 even though they are indeed science courses. If I were in your position that would concern me a bit. With a 2.87 I'm thinking 2-3 math/science courses with an A should do the trick, no?

 

[bluv1212]

I thought UCONN only had a post-bacc, not an SMP. btw, i went to UCONN. I will deffly consider your advice about taking 2-3 science courses, although if i were to do that it'd have to be soon. But would i be able to write that in as post-bacc credit? If i did an SMP, could i not write those classes in as post-bacc, whether degree or not?

Which SMP's have you gotten accepted to, if you don't mind me asking. I've applied to tufts, nymc, temple, drexel, and umdnj...I'm looking for a potential sixth, which i thought would be VCU but they're looking for candidates that are cGPA>/=3.0 and an sGPA >/=3.2, which is kinda making me nervous. I may wait to call before i consider filling out an app.

 

[DrMidlife]

Yep, lots of pessimism can be found on here. On SDN an MCAT below 35 is crap, despite the fact that 30 and up is like 80th+ percentile.

Sure, if you're comparing yourself with test takers instead of comparing yourself with matriculating med students. 30.8 is the average, meaning 50th percentile, for matriculating MD students. http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table17-fact2009mcatgpa98-09-web.pdf