Need based aid

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I was curious at what point schools stop offering need-based aid? Or what the need-to-aid ratio looks like. For example, my parents are in the 100k-125k range (neither are college graduates/I am first generation college if that matters) but they will not be contributing anything financially (both undergrad and med school). Will schools factor in parental willingness as opposed to just straight up income? And do schools factor in when students themselves have dependents?
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From my experience parental income counts, i’m 33 and had to include their info whether or not they are willing to help. I also have dependents but not sure if that played a factor.
 
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Parental income counts. I did have one exception. Because I have a dependent, one of my schools did not look at parental income when calculating my need-based aid. They only looked at mine. I asked other schools to do the same, but they wouldn't. Perhaps there are other schools that do this, but I imagine it's very case-by-case and you'd have to ask the individual financial aid offices
 
ClamShell said:
Parental willingness is NEVER taken into consideration. Because it would given parents all over the country a license to just put their hands up and say “we aren’t paying” and get their kids free tuition.
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And I suppose that makes sense. So, at least for medical school, where is the line drawn? I know that with parental income that I thought was high I would still fall in the bottom half of parental income for med school matriculants (which is crazy...).
 
LadyGlen said:
Parental income counts. I did have one exception. Because I have a dependent, one of my schools did not look at parental income when calculating my need-based aid. They only looked at mine. I asked other schools to do the same, but they wouldn't.
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Did they at least factor in the fact that you have a dependent in their calculations?
 
MemeLord said:
Did they at least factor in the fact that you have a dependent in their calculations?
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I went back and asked at the school I eventually decided on. They were able to give me extra money for dependent care. It was only an extra 5K/year but every little bit counts.
 
Schools will not go out and beg for scholarship funds and turn around and give those funds to someone with no income but with two parents who earn a combined total of $750,000/yr, particularly when the student is preparing for a career that pays handsomely. It think that this should be obvious and you, as an alumnus, wouldn't donate to the scholarship fund if you knew that it was going to people who had parents who could afford to help (but might not be inclined to do so).

They may make an assessment as to what your parents, based on income and age (and proximity to retirement age) should be able to pony up. Then they will turn around and give you loans up to the Cost of Attendance so even if your parents don't pony up, you can still attend.

There is also a calculus that schools make regarding students who have a support network to go to if they needed to borrow $50 or $500 for an emergency versus those who do not have such a safety net.
 
MemeLord said:
And I suppose that makes sense. So, at least for medical school, where is the line drawn? I know that with parental income that I thought was high I would still fall in the bottom half of parental income for med school matriculants (which is crazy...).
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What? Really? I had no idea that average parental income was so high. I'm almost 30 and haven't gotten any money from my parents for over a decade (and paid over $10,000 of my own money in medical bills, but that's another story). I would have easily qualified for FAP if my dad didn't make what he makes (which is about 100k).
 
LizzyM said:
Schools will not go out and beg for scholarship funds and turn around and give those funds to someone with no income but with two parents who earn a combined total of $750,000/yr, particularly when you are preparing for a career that pays handsomely. It think that this should be obvious and you, as an alumnus, wouldn't donate to the scholarship fund if you knew that it was going to people who had parents who could afford to help (but might not be inclined to do so).

They may make an assessment as to what your parents, based on income and age (and proximity to retirement age) should be able to pony up. Then they will turn around and give you loans up to the Cost of Attendance so even if your parents don't pony up, you can still attend.

There is also a calculus that schools make regarding students who have a support network to go to if they needed to borrow $50 or $500 for an emergency versus those who do not have such a safety net.
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I totally get that. Parental consideration will always be a factor regardless of willingness to contribute. But what level is considered "too wealthy" to receive a good chunk of aid (although I know it might be different for you at NYU because everyone gets free tuition *I am guessing*)
 
EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
What? Really? I had no idea that average parental income was so high. I'm almost 30 and haven't gotten any money from my parents for over a decade (and paid over $10,000 of my own money in medical bills, but that's another story). I would have easily qualified for FAP if my dad didn't make what he makes.
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I am in the same boat. But yah, the average (it might be median?) med school matriculant familial income is north of $200K. So I at least know I am more needy than 'average' but my brain still doesn't understand if $100k is 'needy.'
 
MemeLord said:
I am in the same boat. But yah, the average (it might be median?) med school matriculant familial income is north of $200K. So I at least know I am more needy than 'average' but my brain still doesn't understand if $100k is 'needy.'
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My guess is no. But hey, maybe we'll end up with some merit aid. Or if not, we'll be able to pay off the loans pretty quickly after becoming attendings.
 
MemeLord said:
I am in the same boat. But yah, the average (it might be median?) med school matriculant familial income is north of $200K. So I at least know I am more needy than 'average' but my brain still doesn't understand if $100k is 'needy.'
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This is probably school-dependent. FWIW, my parents make less than 100K, and the amount of need-based aid I received ranged from 20K-35K. This is at the UCs. I imagine some of the private schools will be able to give significantly more.
 
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LizzyM said:
Schools will not go out and beg for scholarship funds and turn around and give those funds to someone with no income but with two parents who earn a combined total of $750,000/yr, particularly when the student is preparing for a career that pays handsomely. It think that this should be obvious and you, as an alumnus, wouldn't donate to the scholarship fund if you knew that it was going to people who had parents who could afford to help (but might not be inclined to do so).

They may make an assessment as to what your parents, based on income and age (and proximity to retirement age) should be able to pony up. Then they will turn around and give you loans up to the Cost of Attendance so even if your parents don't pony up, you can still attend.

There is also a calculus that schools make regarding students who have a support network to go to if they needed to borrow $50 or $500 for an emergency versus those who do not have such a safety net.
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Do you know the relative distribution between med students who have a doctor as a parent vs med students who don’t?
 
ClamShell said:
Do you know the relative distribution between med students who have a doctor as a parent vs med students who don’t?
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There are the "two parents both doctors" families, there are the one parent with an bachelors or MBA who is a business executive, there are "two parents both lawyers". So, it isn't just doctor parents vs everyone else.
 
LadyGlen said:
This is probably school-dependent. FWIW, my parents make less than 100K, and the amount of need-based aid I received ranged from 20K-35K. This is at the UCs. I imagine some of the private schools will be able to give significantly more.
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Is that annually? If so that is still great
 
MemeLord said:
I was curious at what point schools stop offering need-based aid? Or what the need-to-aid ratio looks like. For example, my parents are in the 100k-125k range (neither are college graduates/I am first generation college if that matters) but they will not be contributing anything financially (both undergrad and med school). Will schools factor in parental willingness as opposed to just straight up income? And do schools factor in when students themselves have dependents?
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In general, there are far fewer need based grants when entering medical school in general and a lot more loans.
 
TurtleyReady4Med said:
In general, there are far fewer need based grants when entering medical school in general and a lot more loans.
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I know that is a general rule for most schools, but I was under the impression that it does not really apply at the T20 schools.
 
MemeLord said:
I know that is a general rule for most schools, but I was under the impression that it does not really apply at the T20 schools.
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It applies all across the board.

There is one caveat which is the fact that some schools take disadvantaged status into consideration when giving merit scholarships.

But need based scholarships tend to be small
 
ClamShell said:
It applies all across the board.

There is one caveat which is the fact that some schools take disadvantaged status into consideration when giving merit scholarships.

But need based scholarships tend to be small
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I guess I just read on another forum that Stanford only gives need based aid. Maybe I just have the wrong ideas!
 
MemeLord said:
I guess I just read on another forum that Stanford only gives need based aid. Maybe I just have the wrong ideas!
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Yes some definitely give need based aid but the number of students is fewer and the amount tends to be less than undergrad.

Edit: grammar
 
So how do schools like Harvard and Stanford types all only have like $120K average graduate indebtedness?
 
Some schools do merit scholarships and need based and some only do need based. Schools consider situations differently (some don't look at parent's income when you get to a certain age or have your own children) but I think it is more than anything about how much funding the school has. The financial aid officers know the COA is high and that many parents can't really contribute due to needing to save for retirement etc. Some schools, Tufts, for example rank their students based on need and then distribute funds that way. So you may still be needy but you're considered less needy than someone with a lower familial income. It's not that the financial aid offers don't want to help you - it's that they don't have the funding to - in my experience at least.

The pro of getting into a better funded school is that they have more money to give you so they can be more reasonable about how much help you need. The T20 I am going to gave me 30k/yr in need based aid and my parents make about 200-300k. That still leaves 60k/yr - which is a large chunk of my parents income (they're not going to pay all that) but anyways my point is that there is still hope for you to get some aid with your parent's income but I think that depends on getting into a school that has the money to offer aid. (Tufts gave me $0 in aid)

As far as why Harvard and Stanford have low avg indebtedness - remember some people do have their school all paid for by their parents - that can definitely drive the avg down.
 
ciestar said:
Same. Only my school gave me nothing and they notoriously don’t give much need-based aid.
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Mine is notorious for being generous and my aid estimate was less than what they say their avg need based aid is for all students. So I'm hoping it goes up a little, but thankful I got anything obviously.
 
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