Need feedback on UT Health Science Center at San Antonio

[FlushBB]

So I just got an interview to UTHSCSA Gen Surg and was wondering if anyone out there can offer some feedback... do you like it? recommend it? whats with the extra 2 years? is it a GOOD program (top 50? better than Penn State)? Any info would be more than welcome... Thanks

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[InductionAgent]

So I just got an interview to UTHSCSA Gen Surg and was wondering if anyone out there can offer some feedback... do you like it? recommend it? whats with the extra 2 years? is it a GOOD program (top 50? better than Penn State)? Any info would be more than welcome... Thanks

Perspective from an anesthesiology resident at UTHSCSA who did some surgery rotations as an intern:

It's an extra 2 years of research done between what would ordinarily be the PGY2 and PGY3 years. A lot of the surgery residents seem disgruntled about it, but it's not like they didn't know about it before they signed on. It seems straightforward to me - if you're not interested in research and want to be done in 5 years, don't interview there. If you need a backup, do a prelim surgery intern year, then try to get a categorical spot. Even if you have to repeat intern year all over, you still save a year if you can land a spot in a 5-year program.

If the research doesn't bother you, UTHSCSA seems to have a well-balanced program with all the major surgical subspecialties. With a Level 1 trauma center and a trauma surgeon as department chair, it's definitely heavy on Trauma/CCM.

 

[FlushBB]

Thanks for the quick response.

I really don't mond 2 years of research. Moreover, I'm expecting to do that as many competitive fellowships are requiring it. More than anything, I am wondering just how good is this program? Should I commit to 7 years here or look elsewhere and do my own research on the side?

With a Level 1 trauma center and a trauma surgeon as department chair, it's definitely heavy on Trauma/CCM.

Thanks for the info on the chair; good to know a trauma surgeon is running the show.

Anyone else have any feedback?

 

[SLUser11]

whats with the extra 2 years?
is it a GOOD program?
top 50?
better than Penn State?
Should I commit to 7 years here or look elsewhere and do my own research on the side?

I'm sorry, but how can you be a 4th year medical student and have such horrible questions? You sound like a premed.

I really don't mond 2 years of research. Moreover, I'm expecting to do that as many competitive fellowships are requiring it.

What? Peds and Surg Onc require research....and that's not even an absolute. What are the "many competitive fellowships" you're talking about?


I'm sorry to be harsh, but something about your approach really bothers me. You're less than five months from making a HUGE decision regarding the rest of your life, and your questions make me think you're going to go into the match mostly blind.

Open your eyes, do some critical thinking, and figure out what real questions you should be asking about programs. I'll get you started:

Step 1: Don't compare every program to Penn State.
Step 2: Don't base decisions about interviews based on whether or not people from an anonymous internet message board think it's a GOOD program (you know, good in capital letters for emphasis).

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yeah, what does Penn State have to do with it? Are you a student there?😕

 

[FlushBB]

I'm sorry, but how can you be a 4th year medical student and have such horrible questions? You sound like a premed.

Because I am curious as to the reputation of a program I am unfamiliar with? Because I am uncertain as to how those extra 2 years can be carried out (research vs MBA vs MPH vs abroad)? Remeber, these questions were probably running through your own head before you jumped on your high and mighty pgy-1 horse.

What? Peds and Surg Onc require research....and that's not even an absolute. What are the "many competitive fellowships" you're talking about?

Are you serious? As you said, Peds requires research. A good surg onc program requires research. Plastics requires research. And although a lot of the other fellowships are not research intense, if you want to get into a better than average program, research helps. Excuse me for striving. Yes, you can get into a Trauma fellowship in many parts of the country without doing much, but if you want to complete it in Shock Trauma Maryland w/ Scalea, or Emory w/ Feliciano, you might want a few highlights on the CV. What I am getting at is that competitive describes not only the type of fellowship, but where you are doing it.

Step 1: Don't compare every program to Penn State.
Step 2: Don't base decisions about interviews based on whether or not people from an anonymous internet message board think it's a GOOD program (you know, good in capital letters for emphasis).

I am not comparing every program to Penn State. However, I know Penn state fairly well. I understand where it stands in the rankings. Unfortunately as I'm sure you know, there really isn't a good ranking of GenSurg programs. Yah, there is a thread for the top 20 here on studentdoctor, but beyond that, there is not much else. There is the ABS performance data, but that too isn't very accurate when you consider that some 'top 20' programs have combined Oral and Written first pass percentage scores lower than non 'top 20' programs. So, having run out of resources, I am curious to hear what other people have to say. NOT base decisions on what they say, just hear whats floating around.

Although I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post, your baseless negative comments could have been left out. You end up sounding more like a 'premed' than anyone.

 

[madtowngirl]

Its hard to know whether you'll like a program without visiting it (either during interview time or an away rotation).

You'll learn this as you go through interviews, although you can do your homework now and know ahead of time: some programs will require 1 or 2 years of research, some will encourage research, and some will not let you take time for research. During the above research, some programs will want you to do actual clinical/basic/translational research, and some will allow you to do MPH, MBA or other graduate work. Its hard to know exactly what you're able to do unless you look at what previous residents there have done, or talk to the PD at that institution.

I wouldn't base your decision to interview on whether a program is 'Top 20' or 'better than Penn State.' Its good to know the general reputation of a program, but its impossible to know if YOU will get the best training at a program just based on reputation alone. 99% of programs in this country will give you a good surgical training. The challenge comes in finding a program that does it in a way that matches you best.

Competitive fellowships don't "require" research. Its a good thing to have, and in fields like peds most successful applicants do some research.

Oh, and going to an interview doesn't commit you to anything. If you're completely unsure of where you want to go, do as many interviews as humanly possible. That gives you plenty of choices when it comes time to rank. Unless your schedule for interviews is too full, I'd just keep it on and decide later. Maybe you'll learn more during your interviewing that will help you decide whether or not to bother interviewing at that place.

 

[FlushBB]

madtowngirl-

Thank you for your input. Deciding whether to interview at a place you don't know enough about can be overwhelming. I'll be sure to keep your comments in mind when I head down to SA.

Regarding 'required' research. I meant that term loosely. I know its not required. It just seems like a lot of the people going into good fellowships have research background.

Thanks again!

 

[SLUser11]

Because I am curious as to the reputation of a program I am unfamiliar with? Because I am uncertain as to how those extra 2 years can be carried out (research vs MBA vs MPH vs abroad)? Remeber, these questions were probably running through your own head before you jumped on your high and mighty pgy-1 horse.


Are you serious? As you said, Peds requires research. A good surg onc program requires research. Plastics requires research. And although a lot of the other fellowships are not research intense, if you want to get into a better than average program, research helps. Excuse me for striving. Yes, you can get into a Trauma fellowship in many parts of the country without doing much, but if you want to complete it in Shock Trauma Maryland w/ Scalea, or Emory w/ Feliciano, you might want a few highlights on the CV. What I am getting at is that competitive describes not only the type of fellowship, but where you are doing it.

Although I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post, your baseless negative comments could have been left out. You end up sounding more like a 'premed' than anyone.

Well, not to nitpick, but I'm PGY-2. I also am not on a high horse. If anything, it is the MS-4 high horse that demands to know whether a program is "top 20" or not before considering an interview, and name-dropping Feliciano to illustrate points.

There are LOTS of students, many of whom I've come in contact with in person and on SDN, who don't think critically about where they want to train in surgery.

They instead accept certain statements as fact that are actually very inaccurate. Here is a sample:

The 80 hour work week doesn't exist
You don't get to operate until you're a pgy3 and that's the way it is.
You have to do 7 years of residency to get any good fellowships
etc. etc.

You likely go to a big name med school, have been fed this line of crap by your classmates, surgical residents, and even attendings, and you've just swallowed it and accepted it as the infallible truth.

People like this go through the entire interview and match process and don't even realize that there are options and alternatives....and then we wonder why there's a 20% dropout rate......

 

[FlushBB]

name-dropping Feliciano to illustrate points.

Did I give the false impression that Feliciano and I are best friends? I simply mentioned his (and Scalea's) name because they are probably amongst the bigger doers in their field. My point was that to work with someone at the top, you have to have more in your file than the applicant right next to you. Name drop? Give me a break.

The 80 hour work week doesn't exist
You don't get to operate until you're a pgy3 and that's the way it is.
You have to do 7 years of residency to get any good fellowships
etc. etc..

I agree. Too often there is the misconception that these are facts. I know there are programs that are compliant. The same goes for operating before pgy-3, and no having to complete a '7 year residency.' However, there are programs which are not compliant. There are programs which don't allow real good OR time until pgy-3, and there are fellowships interested in a couple years research. And one of my resources to find these and other info out prior to interviewing is by posting here on sdn.

You likely go to a big name med school, have been fed this line of crap by your classmates, surgical residents, and even attendings, and you've just swallowed it and accepted it as the infallible truth.

lol. Wow, first you compare my line of thought to a premed, and now you assume I go to a big name school. Do you mean that big name school goers think at a premed level? Or are you having a change of heart?

In actuality, I do not go to a big name school. I attend a very small run of the mill school. However, I have worked hard for 4 years and would like to be trained in a top notch place (and of course one that will let me into the OR before pgy-3 and all that other stuff).

Sorry for the pgy-1 comment; it was an error. Your pgy-2 ego must be bruised. My apologies.

 

[Winged Scapula]

BTW, it is not exactly true, at least in the case of doing your Trauma/Crit Care fellowship at Shock in Baltimore with Scalea, that you need:

research
to come from a big name program

My ex trained there, came from a community program, no time in the lab, mediocre ABSITE scores (by his own admission), and no publications. His colleagues at the time were a mix of big name university guys with research and others like him.

He always suspected it was more of "who you know" that got him the spot there, but then again he interviewed at all the "big name trauma places", so I was never convinced. His PD had worked with Scalea during residency, so perhaps a well placed phone all did the trick....we don't know.

At any rate, many things are possible outside of what others tell you...as SLUser notes, there are other options and possibilities.

 

[FlushBB]

Kimerli Cox-
Very true, but I think you are talking about the exception and not the normal/standard. Knowing 2 of the current trauma fellows at STC, they both did research (one completed 3 years!!).
And yes, unfortunately (or fortunately for some) who you know can make a huge difference on where you go

 

[Winged Scapula]

Kimerli Cox-
Very true, but I think you are talking about the exception and not the normal/standard. Knowing 2 of the current trauma fellows at STC, they both did research (one completed 3 years!!).
And yes, unfortunately (or fortunately for some) who you know can make a huge difference on where you go

Since there are 9 - 13 trauma fellows there per year, it appears that there are quite a few that you don't know. However, I admit that my story may seem the exception to the rule, except that he had colleagues during his year there who also did not have much if any research. So I'll admit its unusual, but not the "exception to the rule". The bottom line was, however, in many of these smaller fields, it can come down to who you know.

 

[Pilot Doc]

From what I have heard, the Maryland program's many fellows are mission critical to meeting clinical manpower needs and they hire accordingly.

 

[Winged Scapula]

From what I have heard, the Maryland program's many fellows are mission critical to meeting clinical manpower needs and they hire accordingly.

Most of the time...although in my ex's year, they only had 9 fellows and the hours they worked were phenomenal. 13 would have made things much more manageable.

Coming from a residency program that kept hours down, he was in for a bit of a "shock" during his fellowship there!

 

[SLUser11]

Did I give the false impression that Feliciano and I are best friends? I simply mentioned his (and Scalea's) name because they are probably amongst the bigger doers in their field. My point was that to work with someone at the top, you have to have more in your file than the applicant right next to you. Name drop? Give me a break.



I agree. Too often there is the misconception that these are facts. I know there are programs that are compliant. The same goes for operating before pgy-3, and no having to complete a '7 year residency.' However, there are programs which are not compliant. There are programs which don't allow real good OR time until pgy-3, and there are fellowships interested in a couple years research. And one of my resources to find these and other info out prior to interviewing is by posting here on sdn.



lol. Wow, first you compare my line of thought to a premed, and now you assume I go to a big name school. Do you mean that big name school goers think at a premed level? Or are you having a change of heart?

In actuality, I do not go to a big name school. I attend a very small run of the mill school. However, I have worked hard for 4 years and would like to be trained in a top notch place (and of course one that will let me into the OR before pgy-3 and all that other stuff).

Sorry for the pgy-1 comment; it was an error. Your pgy-2 ego must be bruised. My apologies.

We can argue about this all day (also, I'm kind of a "last-word freak"). No matter where you go to school, you seem to concentrating a whole lot on the prestige-factor, and this can potentially land you at the wrong program, and make you miserable for 7 years (or shorter).

Just take a step back, and realize that there are a lot of factors to consider when choosing a program, and there are alternative roads to the same goals. You can get good fellowships and strong training coming from a lot of different types of programs. If you have tunnel vision, you might end up making a mistake that's difficult to reverse.


As for my PGY-2 ego, it's big enough to take a little bruising....

 

[FlushBB]

We can argue about this all day (also, I'm kind of a "last-word freak"). No matter where you go to school, you seem to concentrating a whole lot on the prestige-factor, and this can potentially land you at the wrong program, and make you miserable for 7 years (or shorter).

Just take a step back, and realize that there are a lot of factors to consider when choosing a program, and there are alternative roads to the same goals. You can get good fellowships and strong training coming from a lot of different types of programs. If you have tunnel vision, you might end up making a mistake that's difficult to reverse.


As for my PGY-2 ego, it's big enough to take a little bruising....

I will admit, this is the best down to earth advice you have offered... Thanks

 

[46&2]

To answer the original question...

Advantages of UT San Antonio

1. Little competition from fellows. There's CT, critical care, and maybe a minimally invasive fellow, that's it.
2. Some strong subspecialties. Transplant and critical care, for example.
3. Most of the hospitals and clinics are close together. The VA is adjacent to the university. Don't have to travel all over the place
4. San Antonio is cheap,traffic moves, and the medical area is in a nonviolent area. The northwest side of town is starting to boom with new construction. Rarely freezes. There is an abundance of good cheap Tex Mex food.
5. Stronger didactics, conferences, and M&M than my current academic program
6. Guaranteed 2 year research (if you want that)
7. Good ICU training, learn to bronch

Disadvantages

1. Top heavy in extreme. You *might* get to drain some butt pus intern year. Go in expecting not to operate for two years.
2. More pyramidal in nature. If you score low in the ABSITE, you're in trouble. Not ashamed at all about holding people back.
3. ICU training comes at a price- at least a year of trauma/critical care if not more. This bites into other aspects of general surgery training.
4. Two years of research is mandatory. It's better to have a program that's flexible about that issue. You never know what you want...
5. Work hours. A lot of paper work. Too fatigued to pay that much attention at conferences or read.
6. San Antonio isn't that great for a young single person. That place is Austin, an hour away. Most of the good bands play there (ACL is a blast). The Riverwalk is really a tourist trap. There are few bars worth visiting; Starbucks is the best local coffee shop.

If you want to operate a lot, especially early, I'd go to a community-academic program. If you want a 'lifestyle friendly' program, this is not it, either. If you want critical care training, not a bad place. Reputation? A nonissue. I don't think anyone is particularly impressed by the name, but you can still get a very competitive fellowship in some high falutin' places.

 

[SLUser11]

I will admit, this is the best down to earth advice you have offered... Thanks

Read post #17.

Something to think about.....

 

[fofonka]

Bump