Need Guidance and Recommendations

[smarty666]

Hello all, I'm new to the forum but I wanted to discuss my situation and hopefully get some guidance, direction, and recommendations on my chances and what I should do because obviously going into medicine is a very life changing and complicated decision to make

I am currently going for a Master's in Public Health (a full one, not an accelerated one that some schools offer), specifically in epidemiology/preventive medicine. I'm going into my first semester so I don't have a GPA as of yet. I have an interest in clinical epidemiology, specifically in the areas of infection control, chronic/infectious diseases antibiotic resistance, diabetes, hospital/health care/patient safety, quality, etc along with a couple of other clinical areas but those are the big ones

My interests is in clinical sciences because I have my undergraduate degree, a BS in Biological Science with a minor in biochemistry from Rutgers and my area of study was biomedical sciences specifically; I graduated with honors with a 3.45 GPA and a 3.39 Science GPA; I did alright freshman year though my lowest grades were a C+ in General Physics and General Chemistry and a B in General Bio and B+ in Calculus ; actually, although my GPA is on the lower end I did better as the courses got harder (an upward trend in grades) and got mainly B+'s and A's in my upper level biological science classes, i.e. Endocrinology, Immunology, Org Chem, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Patho Micro, Virology, Toxicology, Physiology, Genetics and Molecular Genetics

I have 6 months of Biomedical Research Experience (retroviral vector research) at a Medical School and some public health experience; it wasn't until doing bench research that I found I did not want to do that as my full-time career and wanted a more people-oriented/practice based career which led me to public health and medicine; I am going part-time for my MPH so it will take me 3-4 years till I finish that degree and continue on

Now that you know my background I need some help; because of my area of interest, as stated above, in clinical epidemiology and hospital related epidemiology, I already know I am going to need to get some sort of clinical degree so that I can work in the areas I want to be in because I have been job searching and have found to work in the areas I want they either want a RN, PA, NP, or MD/DO for the positions which I obviously do not have

In the 3-4 years it will take me to finish the MPH I have to get clinical experience, of which I have none, and shadow MD's and PA's; and take the MCAT if I decide to go the MD route; my dilemma is I have narrowed down my degree options to going to med school after completion of the MPH and getting a MD or going to PA school and getting a MS-PA and becoming a physician assistant; I understand both the time commitment and pros and cons of MD vs PA but what I want to know if based on my undergraduate GPA do you think I would be more competitive in applying to medical school or PA school? I've heard that in some instances it is harder to get into PA school then it is medical school; or my third option is to apply to a post-bac program at Temple, UPenn, Columbia, or Cornell to enhance my undergraduate credentials and then go into medical school?

Oh, I should add, that the reason why I am not considering DO is because they have to be taught and perform chiropractic-like manipulations and other physical modalities and I have a L5-S1 spinal fusion and lots of low back problems so I can not do anything that requires me to physical lift patients or perform complex manipulations of the body which DO's are required to learn and perform; thus, another reason why I chose the MD or PA route; I am hoping that if I keep a 3.5GPA or higher in my MPH program, and get at least a 30 on the MCAT and get great recommendations from the MD, MPH professors in my department I might be in good shape for medical school but I don't completely want to count out PA school completely

I would love to hear from both MD's and PA's if possible on my situation and here your recommendations and guidance because I greatly need it and even though I wouldn't be applying to med school or PA school for another 3-4 years I have to start thinking about all this now so that I can plan ahead and get more volunteer and clinical experience, along with shadowing done!

Oh I almost forgot, because of my physical limitations due to my spinal fusion I was hoping for some recommendations on specific type of volunteer and clinical experiences I could do to get patient contact and experience? because I obviously can not do something like EMT, transport, or PCA where your are required to physically be able to help lift patients!!!

Thanks in advance for your help and advice!!!

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Hello all, I'm new to the forum but I wanted to discuss my situation and hopefully get some guidance, direction, and recommendations on my chances and what I should do because obviously going into medicine is a very life changing and complicated decision to make

I am currently going for a Master's in Public Health (a full one, not an accelerated one that some schools offer), specifically in epidemiology/preventive medicine. I'm going into my first semester so I don't have a GPA as of yet. I have an interest in clinical epidemiology, specifically in the areas of infection control, chronic/infectious diseases antibiotic resistance, diabetes, hospital/health care/patient safety, quality, etc along with a couple of other clinical areas but those are the big ones

My interests is in clinical sciences because I have my undergraduate degree, a BS in Biological Science with a minor in biochemistry from Rutgers and my area of study was biomedical sciences specifically; I graduated with honors with a 3.45 GPA and a 3.39 Science GPA; I did alright freshman year though my lowest grades were a C+ in General Physics and General Chemistry and a B in General Bio and B+ in Calculus ; actually, although my GPA is on the lower end I did better as the courses got harder (an upward trend in grades) and got mainly B+'s and A's in my upper level biological science classes, i.e. Endocrinology, Immunology, Org Chem, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Patho Micro, Virology, Toxicology, Physiology, Genetics and Molecular Genetics

I have 6 months of Biomedical Research Experience (retroviral vector research) at a Medical School and some public health experience; it wasn't until doing bench research that I found I did not want to do that as my full-time career and wanted a more people-oriented/practice based career which led me to public health and medicine; I am going part-time for my MPH so it will take me 3-4 years till I finish that degree and continue on

Now that you know my background I need some help; because of my area of interest, as stated above, in clinical epidemiology and hospital related epidemiology, I already know I am going to need to get some sort of clinical degree so that I can work in the areas I want to be in because I have been job searching and have found to work in the areas I want they either want a RN, PA, NP, or MD/DO for the positions which I obviously do not have

In the 3-4 years it will take me to finish the MPH I have to get clinical experience, of which I have none, and shadow MD's and PA's; and take the MCAT if I decide to go the MD route; my dilemma is I have narrowed down my degree options to going to med school after completion of the MPH and getting a MD or going to PA school and getting a MS-PA and becoming a physician assistant; I understand both the time commitment and pros and cons of MD vs PA but what I want to know if based on my undergraduate GPA do you think I would be more competitive in applying to medical school or PA school? I've heard that in some instances it is harder to get into PA school then it is medical school; or my third option is to apply to a post-bac program at Temple, UPenn, Columbia, or Cornell to enhance my undergraduate credentials and then go into medical school?

Oh, I should add, that the reason why I am not considering DO is because they have to be taught and perform chiropractic-like manipulations and other physical modalities and I have a L5-S1 spinal fusion and lots of low back problems so I can not do anything that requires me to physical lift patients or perform complex manipulations of the body which DO's are required to learn and perform; thus, another reason why I chose the MD or PA route; I am hoping that if I keep a 3.5GPA or higher in my MPH program, and get at least a 30 on the MCAT and get great recommendations from the MD, MPH professors in my department I might be in good shape for medical school but I don't completely want to count out PA school completely

I would love to hear from both MD's and PA's if possible on my situation and here your recommendations and guidance because I greatly need it and even though I wouldn't be applying to med school or PA school for another 3-4 years I have to start thinking about all this now so that I can plan ahead and get more volunteer and clinical experience, along with shadowing done!

Oh I almost forgot, because of my physical limitations due to my spinal fusion I was hoping for some recommendations on specific type of volunteer and clinical experiences I could do to get patient contact and experience? because I obviously can not do something like EMT, transport, or PCA where your are required to physically be able to help lift patients!!!

Thanks in advance for your help and advice!!!

alright.. where to begin..
DO's do not have to use OMM, if your not in primary care.. you will never use it ever..
you wont be lifting... will i think MD's would be lifting people too if DO's do it..
MPH will do you little to nothing.. Med school already stated many times they dont care about MPH gpa or MBA gpa.
if your worried about lifting people you can preform omm or check ups on them laying down.. or have them help you out..
yah.. if you want into MD you'll need a good Mcat
and PA... dude you'll have a broken back from that profession because your basically the doctors bitch and your going to be doing alot of the restraining or hard work...

i recommend doing some research on DO schools...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

i mean idk what to tell you..
medicine is a very very hands on profession..
with the exception of radiology.. and even then you'll have to position the person so that they line up with the x ray machine sometimes.. or other physical toils..

i hope some treatment for your spinal fusion comes up..
i hate to see someone's dreams taken away by something like this..

 

[Econ2MD]

Why is your MPH taking 3-4 years?

I volunteer as a Peds Companion at the local Children's Hospital. Very rewarding, tons of patient/family contact and not very physically demanding. I'm sure there are other ways to volunteer that don't require much physical exertion. Use the gifts you've been given.

If you meet these standards or make arrangements, your disability should not be prohibitive. Check out the motor skills section.

Many will tell you your goal is impossible. All of them are wrong. You decide what is possible and what isn't.
Technical Standards for Admission and Retention

• The College of Medicine seeks candidates who best will be able to serve the needs of society and strives to graduate skilled and effective physicians. To achieve this goal, the following principles and technical standards will be applied to candidates for admission and continuing students.

Principles

1. Technical Standards refer to criteria that go beyond academic requirements for admission and are essential to meeting the academic requirements of the program.
2. Students, with or without disabilities, applying to and continuing in the College will be expected to meet the same requirements.
3. Matriculation and continuation in the College assume a certain level of cognitive and technical skill. Medical students with disabilities will be held to the same fundamental standards as their non-disabled peers. Although not all students should be expected to gain the same level of proficiency with all technical skills, some skills are so essential that mastery must be achieved, with the assistance of reasonable accommodations where necessary.
4. Reasonable accommodations will be provided to assist in learning, performing and satisfying the technical standards.
5. Every reasonable attempt will be made to facilitate the progress of students where it does not compromise collegiate standards or interfere with the rights of other students and patients.

Applicants for admission to the College of Medicine and continuing students must possess the capability to complete the entire medical curriculum and achieve the degree. To this end, all courses in the curriculum must be completed successfully. In order to acquire the knowledge and skills to function in a broad variety of clinical situations and to render a wide spectrum of patient care, candidates for the MD degree must have abilities and skills in five areas including Observation; Communication; Motor; Intellectual, Conceptual, Integrative and Quantitative Abilities; and Behavioral and Social Attributes.
Technological compensation can be made for some disabilities in certain of these areas, but a candidate must meet the essential technical standards in such a way that he or she will be able to perform in a reasonably independent manner. The use of a trained intermediary is not acceptable in many clinical situations as it implies that a candidate's judgment must be mediated by someone else's power of selection and observation.
Continuing students in the College are held to the same technical standards.

• Observation Students must have the functional ability to observe demonstrations and experiments in the basic sciences and must have sufficient use of the senses necessary to perform a physical examination.
• Communication Students must be able to relate reasonably to patients and establish sensitive, professional relationships with patients, colleagues and staff. They are expected to communicate the results of the history and examination to the patient and to their colleagues with accuracy, clarity and efficiency.
• Motor Students are expected to participate in basic diagnostic and therapeutic maneuvers and procedures. Those who cannot perform these activities independently should be able to understand and direct the methodology involved in such activities.
• Intellectual, Conceptual, Integrative and Quantitative Abilities Students must be able to learn to analyze, synthesize, solve problems, and reach reasonable diagnostic and therapeutic judgments. Students are expected to be able to display good judgment in the assessment and treatment of patients. They must be able to learn to respond with prompt and appropriate action in emergency situations.
• Behavioral and Social Attributes Students are expected to be able to accept criticism and respond with appropriate modification of their behavior. Students also are expected to possess the perseverance, diligence, and consistency necessary to complete the medical school curriculum and enter the independent practice of medicine within a reasonable timeframe. They must demonstrate professional and ethical demeanor and behavior in all dealings with peers, faculty, staff and patients.
• Cultural Competency Medical students must be able to communicate with and care for persons whose culture, sexual orientation or religious beliefs are different from their own. They must be able to perform a complete history and physical exam on any patient regardless of the student's and patient's race, religion, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, gender, age or sexual preference. Similarly, students must be able to interact professionally with colleagues and other healthcare professionals without regard to race, religion, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, gender, age or sexual preference.

Applicants who may not meet these standards are encouraged to contact the College of Medicine Admissions Office.

 

[smarty666]

DO's do not have to use OMM, if your not in primary care.. you will never use it ever..
you wont be lifting... will i think MD's would be lifting people too if DO's do it..
MPH will do you little to nothing.. Med school already stated many times they dont care about MPH gpa or MBA gpa.
if your worried about lifting people you can preform omm or check ups on them laying down.. or have them help you out..
yah.. if you want into MD you'll need a good Mcat
and PA... dude you'll have a broken back from that profession because your basically the doctors bitch and your going to be doing alot of the restraining or hard work...

i recommend doing some research on DO schools


I have done plenty of research on DO schools and even if your not in primary care, you still have to be taught and trained on the OMTs while in in the program and I know two people who are in DO programs now who have told me they have to perform the manipulations themselves and because of my back I would not take the chance of it screwing me up, plus I want to go into primary care practice anyway so the DO ROUTE is OUT

I can see your bias against PAs for some reason but the PAs that I've personal met and asked them about their professions have never mentioned being the "doctors bitch"; in fact, I've never seen a PA in all my years in out of the doctor's offices and hospitals ever lift a finger more than a MD or DO does; they always call a nurse or PCA in to do the physical stuff but then each state and each hospitals requirements for PA's are different

as far as the MPH doing little to nothing for me I can't disagree with you more; all the MD's in my department either got their MPH and then went on to medical school or got their MPH after or during medical school so its not a useless degree to have; plus, 60% of the people in my department who get their MPH go on to either get a PA, DO, or MD programs and go into medicine upon graduation so its a good route to go to enhance your application though I do agree with you that the med school admissions committee will like it but they will put more emphasis on your undergraduate GPA, courses, and MCAT score then they will on a graduate degree and GPA! I personally know three people who did an accelerated MPH to enhance their application and are now in MD programs! That is why if I did the med school route I would seriously consider applying to a post-bac programs and I have talked with several MD's who have recommended that route for me upon completion of my master's degree

Another reason I went for the MPH is because as you mentioned, because of my back and possible future surgery my future is uncertain and if by a slim chance I cannot go into medicine I want to have a graduate degree to fall back on!

 

[smarty666]

Why is your MPH taking 3-4 years?

I volunteer as a Peds Companion at the local Children's Hospital. Very rewarding, tons of patient/family contact and not very physically demanding. I'm sure there are other ways to volunteer that don't require much physical exertion. Use the gifts you've been given.

The reason why the MPH is taking 3-4 years is because I'm only going part-time, mainly because I just had a posterior L5-S1 spinal fusion 10 months ago and I'm still having problems with my back, bone graft site, and leg and most likely will need another surgery in 2010 to get the hardware and scar tissue removed; plus I wanted the extra time to do clinical volunteering/experience (which I do not have), take the MCAT, and shadow two or three physicians of mine

Thank you for the volunteer recommendations; I have been doing volunteer and asthma related clinical talks with the American Lung Association and have been a volunteer and walker for the JDRF and American Diabetes Association for the last couple years so I have community based volunteer activities covered to a T I just need the clinical

Within the next month or two I'm going to go start volunteering at my local hospital and find out, as you mentioned doing something like a Peds Companion or visiting with patients and things of that nature; being in a School of Public Health their are wonderful clinical opportunities to volunteer at clinics for HIV, Cancer, Diabetes, etc for undeserved populations which I obviously will take advantage of and volunteer for the medical reserve corp and clinics through my county Health Department!!

 

[mediterranean]

As far as GPA is concerned, you are average with the rest of the applicant pool whether it is med school or PA. When I looked around for requirements, although they say the min GPA is 2.5 there are plenty of people applying with your GPA and can get in for PA. For med school applications, it is an unmentioned requirement to shadow. Shadowing and volunteer don't require any heavy lifting since that is what your primary concern is. And your GPA can be increased to 3.5 to be a perfect niche for middle- and lower-tier medical schools. And you definitely have the right mindset to aim for a 30 on the MCAT. By taking the MCAT, you can knock two birds with one stone because some PA programs accept the MCAT but I am not sure which ones because they know many applicants have tried to enter medical school before applying the PA route. The rest of them though require GRE so that would be ANOTHER test you have to take unless you actually want to take them both. I don't know what the score would have to be to accepted if you decided to take the PA route.

I would have to disagree with serenade though because PAs have a wide scope of practice. You learn everything (every field) in two years. I went to an allergist (as a patient) and he would have a PA come in certain days of the week. You are not lifting a person with allergies and the same can go for dermatology. There are certain fields that do not require you to lift someone but it is hard to restrict yourself only to those options.

MPH is not the best option to go to enhance your application. MPH degrees are those who are conjoining the degree with MD or if they are not in medical school, they take a job that relates to what they specialized in. Also MPH is not considered "hardcore" sciences. SMP (Special Master's Program) on the other hand is what will help you out since they are one year master's programs that give those with lower GPAs a chance to prove they would do well in medical school because, well, they are medical school classes. You will be taking classes with medical students but could be on a different grading scale. But also some SMP offer linkages to the medical school it is offered in or to other medical schools nearby. They either guarantee interviews at the medical school or you can easily increase your chances to interview at schools on the other side of the country. Be careful though, you have to do exceptionallly well (3.5+) or it will look bad on your application. But don't enter an SMP unlesss you have been rejected after submitting your med school applications.

I hope I was helpful but you seem to know a lot of info but are not sure what path to take.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

sorry
but medical schools wont give you any benefits for having a mph. they wont even average the gpa into you ugpa or even consider it in the process. if i could find the post that said it i'll send it.

DO's yes they have to learn OMM..
on dolls... and cadavers..
if you think you wont be doing similar things like lifting a 150 pound cadaver in Medical school your very wrong..
MD's have to get hands on experience looking at bones and internal muscles and organs with the use of cadavers.. it requires a lot of work and bending over to do that. i remember when i dissected a fetal pig in high school, its very labour intensive to cut through anything.. i would only presume that a full grown human would be extremely difficult to work with.
either way.... getting to be a pediatrician/other non-labour intensive specialty still requires a lot of work..
including spending 3rd and 4th year doing surgery rotations... which are very hard and labor intensive .. and residency is 80 hours a week.. of hard labour working and being a slave.
all health care fields are very very hands on..
with the exception.. of pharmacy.. which i would actually recommend to you... its a speciality which requires very little lifting and is pretty interesting.

 

[mediterranean]

For pharmacy, smarty666 would have to take the PCAT and that is only offered four times in a year. Also pharmacy would require a lot of math so be sure you are not the kind of person to make mistakes.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

For pharmacy, smarty666 would have to take the PCAT and that is only offered four times in a year. Also pharmacy would require a lot of math so be sure you are not the kind of person to make mistakes.

yes.. the pcat would prove some trouble in this if he's not particular to going across the country. if he can move >>
he could go to purdue or california where the Pcat is not required.
and i believe his gpa is pretty competitive

 

[Econ2MD]

sorry
but medical schools wont give you any benefits for having a mph. they wont even average the gpa into you ugpa or even consider it in the process. if i could find the post that said it i'll send it.

DO's yes they have to learn OMM..
on dolls... and cadavers..
if you think you wont be doing similar things like lifting a 150 pound cadaver in Medical school your very wrong..
MD's have to get hands on experience looking at bones and internal muscles and organs with the use of cadavers.. it requires a lot of work and bending over to do that. i remember when i dissected a fetal pig in high school, its very labour intensive to cut through anything.. i would only presume that a full grown human would be extremely difficult to work with.
either way.... getting to be a pediatrician/other non-labour intensive specialty still requires a lot of work..
including spending 3rd and 4th year doing surgery rotations... which are very hard and labor intensive .. and residency is 80 hours a week.. of hard labour working and being a slave.
all health care fields are very very hands on..
with the exception.. of pharmacy.. which i would actually recommend to you... its a speciality which requires very little lifting and is pretty interesting.

I agree with the MPH not being particularly helpful. Seeing it through to completion once started is probably the best route.

I wholeheartedly disagree with physical disability preventing the OP from attending medical school and becoming a fantastic physician. You are not required to lift 150 lbs. to become a physician. Reasonable accommodations can be made for physical limitations.

I wouldn't discount DO school either. Call schools and ask about your situation. I'm willing to bet they've made accommodations in the past for other disabilities. It seems DO schools are the most understanding about alternative paths to medicine.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I agree with the MPH not being particularly helpful. Seeing it through to completion once started is probably the best route.

I wholeheartedly disagree with physical disability preventing the OP from attending medical school and becoming a fantastic physician. You are not required to lift 150 lbs. to become a physician. Reasonable accommodations can be made for physical limitations.

I wouldn't discount DO school either. Call schools and ask about your situation. I'm willing to bet they've made accommodations in the past for other disabilities. It seems DO schools are the most understanding about alternative paths to medicine.

good post, in medical school im sure there can be some accommodation
however.. most residencies being physically disabled with be extremely difficult.
however if the person can work through it
they deserve to end up being a physician

 

[smarty666]

but medical schools wont give you any benefits for having a mph. they wont even average the gpa into you ugpa or even consider it in the process. if i could find the post that said it i'll send it.

DO's yes they have to learn OMM..
on dolls... and cadavers..
if you think you wont be doing similar things like lifting a 150 pound cadaver in Medical school your very wrong..
MD's have to get hands on experience looking at bones and internal muscles and organs with the use of cadavers.. it requires a lot of work and bending over to do that. i remember when i dissected a fetal pig in high school, its very labour intensive to cut through anything.. i would only presume that a full grown human would be extremely difficult to work with.
either way.... getting to be a pediatrician/other non-labour intensive specialty still requires a lot of work..
including spending 3rd and 4th year doing surgery rotations... which are very hard and labor intensive .. and residency is 80 hours a week.. of hard labour working and being a slave.
all health care fields are very very hands on..
with the exception.. of pharmacy.. which i would actually recommend to you... its a speciality which requires very little lifting and is pretty interesting.

I never said that med schools would take a graduate GPA and factor it into your undergraduate but to say that med schools won't give you any benefit for an MPH is simply a falsehood it isn't even funny; I've talked to my professors at my school who have both an MPH and a MD and your simply wrong and all you seem to want to do is argue about it; the area of my MPH is epi and preventive medicine and if you don't think doing a clinical project where I get to have patient contact will not benefit me then your sorely mistaken; it will give me some clinical experience and I get to work with MD's so until you have a MPH stop putting it down and saying its worthless because you don't have a clue (so I'm assuming all the MD's I see on TV with MD, MPH after their same found that the MPH gave them no benefit at all) give me a break; and if you listened to what I said is that the MPH enhances an application and gives something unique to an applicant that a traditional pre-med student doesn't have; plus it gives great deal of topic conversation for med school interviews, especially if you did a clinical project or volunteer clinic work for a public health project/campaign!

For someone who isn't even in med school you seem to know every specific detail of what they do and do not do and trust me, with all the medical problems I have in my life I have been around doctors, chiropractors, PTs, etc all my life; the manuevers that DOs and chiropractors do, which I have seen first hand is nothing like a MD would ever have to do

Your cadaver example is flawed as well; I've dissected a pig, worm, frog, cat, etc and did not find it anywhere near as physically difficult as you are trying to make it out to be; plus you have lab partners, just like in high school, in med school you'll have anatomy partners who will help with things like lifting and holding things up while dissection is being done; plus, its not like you'll be spending 50-60hrs a week doing dissection constantly; the instructor is not going to say, "if you can't pick up that 150-200lbs cadaver all by yourself you'll fail anatomy" of course they wouldn't so don't be so ridiculous; there are plenty of people with physical limitations worse then mine who go and get through med school and residency and I'm sure accomodations can be made if absolutely necessary; for God sake if a dwarf lady can become a pediatric critical care doctor then that should be motivation enough for anyone with a physical disability or limitation to becoming a doctor

finally, pharmacy is out because it is very similar to bench research, you spend the majority of your time cutting up pills, etc where your neck and back are slightly bent over at the counter, much like when I did bench research for 40-50hrs a week where I was bent over the lab bench 85-90% of the time pipetting, PCRs, making Gels, etc which killed my neck and back because I was in one position all day, much like a pharmacist does; plus I know math and organic chemistry are key components for that profession that you have to know by heart and neither subject was interesting to me in college

What attracted me to the MD and PA fields is, why I understand they have certain amounts of physical demands to them, the job itself is much more varied, your not bent over at a desk all day doing the same thing, your up and about a lot of the time talking with patients, examining patients, performs tests, etc which is exactly what I need, a job where I can be moving and doing different things and not sitting or standing in one position all day like you do with bench research and pharmacy

Like I said, the only physical limitations I have is I can not pick up a patient by myself; I can only lift no more than 30 lbs and I could perform physical examines on patients, perform tests, and do anatomy lab with no problem

I'm actually not concerned about 1st or 2nd year of medical school with my back, as you mentioned it is 3rd and 4th year and especially residency that I'm more concerned about because of the sheer amount of hours that you have to physically do stuff and be on your feet; it all is going to depend on how my back progresses and if future surgeries relieve my pain; if not I know I'll never make it through 3rd or 4th year and especially residency so med school would be out of the question

But I try to remain positive that my neurosurgeon will get me through this so that I can go on into medicine!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

all i can say is good luck.. i think your showing me that you have what its got to be a doctor, if you do have a back problem holding you back.. all i can say is try to endure it..
but i think you could be a good doctor
but
im being honest.. i've read tons of reports where adcoms will directly tell you that a mph will be of no help for you..

but yes more power to you and i hope your back problem will be repaired and i wish you luck..
but like i said i dont see much difference in DO and MD style
so you can still be able to manage to preform OMM without requiring a extremely high amount of energy.. and you can always have the DO school help you to be more accommodated
either way i still think with your grades you should go DO or MD

wait.. neurosurgeon? isn't spinal injury/issue within the domain of orthopedic surgery?

 

[smarty666]

good post, in medical school im sure there can be some accommodation
however.. most residencies being physically disabled with be extremely difficult.
however if the person can work through it
they deserve to end up being a physician

agree with you 100%; like you mentioned though residency is known for being physically demanding and like I said before is my biggest worry when it comes to my back; I know I could get through med school but like I said my future isn't set in stone because of my back problem

like my neurosurgeon said to me, nothing in medicine is certain and you can never guarantee anything 100% so I will just have to wait and see what the future holds for me

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

good post, in medical school im sure there can be some accommodation
however.. most residencies being physically disabled with be extremely difficult.
however if the person can work through it
they deserve to end up being a physician

agree with you 100%; like you mentioned though residency is known for being physically demanding and like I said before is my biggest worry when it comes to my back; I know I could get through med school but like I said my future isn't set in stone because of my back problem

like my neurosurgeon said to me, nothing in medicine is certain and you can never guarantee anything 100% so I will just have to wait and see what the future holds for me

like i said i hope your back is fixed and you can pursue medicine.

 

[smarty666]

By taking the MCAT, you can knock two birds with one stone because some PA programs accept the MCAT but I am not sure which ones because they know many applicants have tried to enter medical school before applying the PA route. The rest of them though require GRE so that would be ANOTHER test you have to take unless you actually want to take them both. I don't know what the score would have to be to accepted if you decided to take the PA route.

I would have to disagree with serenade though because PAs have a wide scope of practice. You learn everything (every field) in two years. I went to an allergist (as a patient) and he would have a PA come in certain days of the week. You are not lifting a person with allergies and the same can go for dermatology. There are certain fields that do not require you to lift someone but it is hard to restrict yourself only to those options.

MPH is not the best option to go to enhance your application. MPH degrees are those who are conjoining the degree with MD or if they are not in medical school, they take a job that relates to what they specialized in. Also MPH is not considered "hardcore" sciences. SMP (Special Master's Program) on the other hand is what will help you out since they are one year master's programs that give those with lower GPAs a chance to prove they would do well in medical school because, well, they are medical school classes. You will be taking classes with medical students but could be on a different grading scale. But also some SMP offer linkages to the medical school it is offered in or to other medical schools nearby. They either guarantee interviews at the medical school or you can easily increase your chances to interview at schools on the other side of the country. Be careful though, you have to do exceptionallly well (3.5+) or it will look bad on your application. But don't enter an SMP unlesss you have been rejected after submitting your med school applications.

I hope I was helpful but you seem to know a lot of info but are not sure what path to take

I never heard of SMP before? Is an SMP the same thing as a post-bac program or are they two different things?

In regards to PA admissions, there many around the NYC and Philadelphia Metropolitan area that do not require any standardized test scores for admission, though some do require the GRE like my School of Public Health did; If I had to though, I would take the MCAT because I hated the GRE, especially the verbal section with analogies, and plus my scores will no longer be valid at the time I apply to med school or PA school so if I had to take a standardized test again it def would be the MCAT

Thanks again for your help and suggestions!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

By taking the MCAT, you can knock two birds with one stone because some PA programs accept the MCAT but I am not sure which ones because they know many applicants have tried to enter medical school before applying the PA route. The rest of them though require GRE so that would be ANOTHER test you have to take unless you actually want to take them both. I don't know what the score would have to be to accepted if you decided to take the PA route.

I would have to disagree with serenade though because PAs have a wide scope of practice. You learn everything (every field) in two years. I went to an allergist (as a patient) and he would have a PA come in certain days of the week. You are not lifting a person with allergies and the same can go for dermatology. There are certain fields that do not require you to lift someone but it is hard to restrict yourself only to those options.

MPH is not the best option to go to enhance your application. MPH degrees are those who are conjoining the degree with MD or if they are not in medical school, they take a job that relates to what they specialized in. Also MPH is not considered "hardcore" sciences. SMP (Special Master's Program) on the other hand is what will help you out since they are one year master's programs that give those with lower GPAs a chance to prove they would do well in medical school because, well, they are medical school classes. You will be taking classes with medical students but could be on a different grading scale. But also some SMP offer linkages to the medical school it is offered in or to other medical schools nearby. They either guarantee interviews at the medical school or you can easily increase your chances to interview at schools on the other side of the country. Be careful though, you have to do exceptionallly well (3.5+) or it will look bad on your application. But don't enter an SMP unlesss you have been rejected after submitting your med school applications.

I hope I was helpful but you seem to know a lot of info but are not sure what path to take

I never heard of SMP before? Is an SMP the same thing as a post-bac program or are they two different things?

In regards to PA admissions, there many around the NYC and Philadelphia Metropolitan area that do not require any standardized test scores for admission, though some do require the GRE like my School of Public Health did; If I had to though, I would take the MCAT because I hated the GRE, especially the verbal section with analogies, and plus my scores will no longer be valid at the time I apply to med school or PA school so if I had to take a standardized test again it def would be the MCAT

Thanks again for your help and suggestions!

smp or special master program..
is for people with low gpa 3.00 to 3.2
and a high mcat 28+..
realisticly you dont need a smp..
you could do a post back to increase your gpa a little bit..
but you just need a good mcat.. 28+ and you'll be good..

 

[Catalystik]

I would love to hear from both MD's and PA's if possible on my situation and here your recommendations and guidance because I greatly need it and even though I wouldn't be applying to med school or PA school for another 3-4 years I have to start thinking about all this now so that I can plan ahead and get more volunteer and clinical experience, along with shadowing done!

I was hoping for some recommendations on specific type of volunteer and clinical experiences I could do to get patient contact and experience?

If you shadow MDs and PAs and decide you prefer to go the MD route, I suggest you take enough undergrad coursework to get your uGPA to a 3.5, take the MCAT and get a 32+, and you'll have a decent chance of an allopathic med school acceptance.

You do not need a formal postbac program. I'd just take some more classes, maybe alongside your grad classes. They will be considered undergrad coursework as long as they aren't required for the degree you're working toward. You could even cover your bases by taking some of the prerequisites unique to PA school (in my state: anatomy and physiology, and medical terminology, among others).

There is another forum on SDN specific to PAs. You are less likely to find that expertise here in the PreMed Allo Forum. It wouldn't surprise me to find that the required level of competitiveness varies greatly from school to school, and from state to state.

I am sure you will find clinical experience opportunities that will not compromise your back. Feeding patients, providing stimulating conversation to nursing home patients, playing with kids in a peds ward, sitting companionably with someone in hospice care, volunteering to take patient histories in a clinic, medical scribe, are among many possibilities that will not cause stress to your back.

Physical standards vary widely from med school to med school. Some are very open to applicants with physical limitations (if yours are even still present four years from now). Last year a quadriplegic was accepted to an MD school. If you can track down that thread with a search, it gave many specific examples of schools training students with a wide variety of differently-abledness. In my training, I never did heavy lifting or patient transfer. Aides are hired to do that type of work.

I never had to lift or move a cadaver in med school. Human dissection is not physically challenging.

The PAs I've worked with were treated on-par with their physician colleagues.

There are many medical specialties that don't require physical strength or a perfect back.

 

[smarty666]

If you shadow MDs and PAs and decide you prefer to go the MD route, I suggest you take enough undergrad coursework to get your uGPA to a 3.5, take the MCAT and get a 32+, and you'll have a decent chance of an allopathic med school acceptance.

You do not need a formal postbac program. I'd just take some more classes, maybe alongside your grad classes. They will be considered undergrad coursework as long as they aren't required for the degree you're working toward. You could even cover your bases by taking some of the prerequisites unique to PA school (in my state: anatomy and physiology, and medical terminology, among others).

The only thing about that though is I really don't know what undergraduate courses I would take because like I said I took an extensive amount of upper level bio sciences courses that I did very well in; I guess I could go back to my undergrad univ and take 1 or 2 classes I didn't get a chance to take like parasitology, histology, cancer, or neuroscience

I am sure you will find clinical experience opportunities that will not compromise your back. Feeding patients, providing stimulating conversation to nursing home patients, playing with kids in a peds ward, sitting companionably with someone in hospice care, volunteering to take patient histories in a clinic, medical scribe, are among many possibilities that will not cause stress to your back.

Those are all great clinical volunteering experiences you just mentioned; thanks for all the suggestions

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

im still curious why your going to neurosurgeon for a spinal thing..
i thought that was something that orthopedic surgeons are trained for..

 

[smarty666]

im still curious why your going to neurosurgeon for a spinal thing..
i thought that was something that orthopedic surgeons are trained

Absolutely not, I would never have no one but a a neurosurgeon touch my back or spine; I was actually told by several orthopedic doctors (who were not surgeons) to never have no one but a neurosurgeon touch your back because of how complex the nerve structure is

Most neurosurgeons specialize in either the spine or brain; those are there two big areas of specialization

There are a few orthopedic surgeons who specialize in the spine but after what I've research and heard from various doctors mouths is that when it comes to the spine and brain you always go to a neurosurgeon; they are the crem to crem when it comes to those areas; if you have a knee, shoulder, tendon, ligament problem, etc then go to a orthopedic surgeon

Orthopedic surgeon's just don't have the training with the nerves like a neurosurgeon does

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

hmm makes senses haha..