need help getting letters of recommendation

[newtopsych]

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Hi, I'll be volunteering for two labs for the next year and a half, and need advices on how and when to approach to ask for a letter of recommendation from either or both labs. Of course, I'll have to do good work.

In one of the labs, I'll be working with a graduate student on his research project that's also his dissertation. This will be his last year in a Phd program. There will likely be opportunities for me to meet with his faculty advisor, although not sure how often. Is it a must for me to try to get a letter from his advisor, instead of one from him? Should I approach him from the beginning (say after 2-3 months of volunteering) and let him know this and get his help on approaching the faculty advisor? Can I even get a letter when I won't be working directly with the faculty? better ways to go about this?

The second is a large lab with many graduate students and at least several undergrad and postbac RAs already, with several projects going on. I won't be able to work directly with the main professor when I start out, and not sure if i'll be able to at all. Thanks in advance for suggestions.

 

[applyingtograd]

Are you applying for the Fall of 2013 or 2014? I would say you should approach your letter writers sometime the summer before you are applying. So, if you are applying for 2014, I wouldn't ask until next summer and by then they will probably know you well. Also, if they know you are planning on applying to Ph.D. programs they probably have already guessed that you will be asking them for letters.
You shouldn't ask a grad student for a letter. You should ask the grad student's advisor for one. You might be able to talk to the grad student about maybe providing some info about you for the advisor to write the letter. But the letter should definitely be signed by the advisor.
Just to make you feel a little more at ease, I (much to my surprise) found that professors were really nice and agreeable about writings letters.

 

[roubs]

Maybe it was just my undergrad being more open about the transaction, but in interviews for both labs I worked in the graduate student brought up how this was an exchange of free labor for a cv boost and a letter of rec, they both stated in the interview to let them know whenever I needed it and how they would write it and have it signed by the faculty in charge of the lab. The labs were both so large that I barely interacted with the faculty member.

 

[newtopsych]

Maybe it was just my undergrad being more open about the transaction, but in interviews for both labs I worked in the graduate student brought up how this was an exchange of free labor for a cv boost and a letter of rec, they both stated in the interview to let them know whenever I needed it and how they would write it and have it signed by the faculty in charge of the lab. The labs were both so large that I barely interacted with the faculty member.

Thank you both, I feel more at ease now. I'll be apply 2014 so I have some time for them to get to know me. Sorry this question might sound dumb, but roubs, How did you have the graduate student write the letter so that it wasn't apparent that you had little interaction with the faculty? or did your letter actually indicate that you worked with the graduate student only? Is it important that the letter shows a close working relationship between you and the faculty member, or will something like "This student worked in my lab, and she did xyz" be fine?

 

[Marissa4usa]

Thank you both, I feel more at ease now. I'll be apply 2014 so I have some time for them to get to know me. Sorry this question might sound dumb, but roubs, How did you have the graduate student write the letter so that it wasn't apparent that you had little interaction with the faculty? or did your letter actually indicate that you worked with the graduate student only? Is it important that the letter shows a close working relationship between you and the faculty member, or will something like "This student worked in my lab, and she did xyz" be fine?

In my case, I was an undergrad RA in a lab for 2.5 years and I saw the professor maybe 4 times in this time. Her grad student wrote the letter of rec and she just signed it. No indication that she barely knew me.

 

[roubs]

Thank you both, I feel more at ease now. I'll be apply 2014 so I have some time for them to get to know me. Sorry this question might sound dumb, but roubs, How did you have the graduate student write the letter so that it wasn't apparent that you had little interaction with the faculty? or did your letter actually indicate that you worked with the graduate student only? Is it important that the letter shows a close working relationship between you and the faculty member, or will something like "This student worked in my lab, and she did xyz" be fine?

The grad student's 'presence' was basically not in the letter, the whole thing was coming from the faculty, so basically your last sentence but because the grad student knew me she was able to personalize it like a normal letter saying what I excelled in and endorsing me as a potential grad student, then the faculty signed it.

 

[phillips101]

Thank you both, I feel more at ease now. I'll be apply 2014 so I have some time for them to get to know me. Sorry this question might sound dumb, but roubs, How did you have the graduate student write the letter so that it wasn't apparent that you had little interaction with the faculty? or did your letter actually indicate that you worked with the graduate student only? Is it important that the letter shows a close working relationship between you and the faculty member, or will something like "This student worked in my lab, and she did xyz" be fine?

Just to echo what everyone else is saying that ou want the faculty to at least sign, if not write, the letter. As for my lab, which during any given semester has 5 undergrad RA's, 2-3 grad students, and 1-2 post-bac RA's, the undergrads rarely ever see the PI. What happens in my lab is that when the student asks for a rec letter, the PI would ask other lab personnel what our opinions are of the student, what his/her strengths/weaknesses are, and anything that stood out. The PI uses this information to write a lengthy (at least a page), personal letter of rec and signs it.

As far as when and how to approach people, I would suggest waiting until you are comfortably settled in. If you are working there for the next 1.5 years and isn't applying until 2014, then why worry about it now? They will forget it by the time to need the letter. Also, while it is implied that anyone working at a lab that is planning on going to grad school (undergrad and postbac RA's included) will want a letter, don't make it seem like you're there ONLY for the letter. I would suggest bringing the letter up to a grad student (or post-bac RA, if he/she interacts with the PI a lot) a couple months before you need the letter, and give the PI at least 4 weeks notice. We've had students asking for the letter 2 weeks before the deadline, which is pretty much the easiest way to get a mediocre letter.

Meanwhile, work your butt off and try to excel and stand out above the rest of the undergrads in the lab (especially the second lab you mentioned). Too often, a lot of undergrad RAs come in and cruise their way through, barely doing anything except data-entry and then ask/expects a letter from the PI. You don't want this to happen to you.

 

[newtopsych]

Thank you, everyone!