Sep 5, 2015
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Hi everyone, first time post! I came here to find out what would be the correct path to take for a doctoral studies in Clinical Neurospychology as I currently stand. I have a BA in Psychology from FIU, did several lab works as an RA during my undergraduate years, then conducted my own study afterwards as a post-bacc at a neural systems lab. I am currently now studying for an M.Ed in Applied Behavior Analysis at Arizona State University to sit for my BCBA. I am also starting to treat populations diagnosed with Autism, ADHD and other behavioral problems for my clinical experience. My question is, after I graduate from my Masters should I pursue a graduate certificate in Neurospychology before attempting to apply for Ph.d's? Or should I get some years in as a behavioral therapist first before applying? Also, I am looking for clinical trial jobs to work as a Clinical Coord./RA, should I pursue this instead? My concern is whether or not this is sufficient enough for schools. Also, my GPA during undergrad was 3.0, and I know have a 3.7 that's why I had to go for the masters. Honest answers, thanks everyone.
 

OneNeuroDoctor

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Clinical Neuropsychology is a specialization or concentration in PhD/PsyD Clinical Psychology programs. There are only a handful of doctoral Clinical Neuropsychology program such as Houston and Memphis, but most practitioners complete a PhD/PsyD in Clinical Psychology with courses in neuropsychology, neuropsychology practicum, and some focus or rotation in neuropsychology during internship. A two-year postdoctoral Clinical Neuropsychology Fellowship is required to be able to use the title of Clinical Neuropsychologist and these are competitive and difficult to gain acceptance.

The typical route is to complete a PhD/PsyD in Clinical Psychology and do a two-year postdoc. However, most Clinical Neuropsychologist hire MS prepared neuropsychology technicians and this is what you may mean by certificate at the MS level.

Only Louisiana has licensure for Clinical Neuropsychologist and Arkansas has the requirement of psychology Board approval for clinical neuropsychologist. Most Hospitals required ABPP credentials.

Neuropsychology requires long-term supervision with heavy emphasis in physiological psychology rather than primary emphasis in psychometrics. Neuropsychology Techs primarily administer test while the neuropsychologist administers tests, interprets test results into integrated diagnoses, recommendations, and reports. Clinical Neuropsychologist requires multiple specialization and knowledge whereas BCBA is very limited and typically a MS degree certificate credential.
 
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OP
Neuroplast
Sep 5, 2015
50
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Psychology Student
Thank you Oneneurodoctor, I understand the differences now. So as I stand, would it benefit me to obtain the graduate certificate (ex. Grad Cert. in Neuropsychology from Ball State) as stated earlier or will my current program M.Ed in Behavior Analysis be sufficient to apply for PsyD/Ph.D's and just focus on clinical experience? I'm needing guidance. Thanks!
 
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OneNeuroDoctor

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I believe the Ball State program is an online five-course program. These courses are in their Educational-School Psychology program. TWU and UT Tyler have similar programs. These may help you in your doctoral studies. However, you still have to do the two-year postdoctoral fellowship in Clinical Neuropsychology after completing you doctoral degree.

Most PhD Clinical Psych programs will not accept a non clinical degree or only let you transfer a specified number of equivalent course credits. Most of the certificate programs are set up for MS degree individuals to obtain knowledge and training to use under their MS degree licensure, but it does not transfer to the postdoctoral fellowship training. A number of School Psychologists completed the PhD in School Psychology at Ball State and did an APA accredited internship and two-year postdoc and practice as Pediatric Neuropsychologist but they don't work with Adults or do psychotherapy, so they basically are psychometrician with a PhD degree.

Are you applying for PhD Clinical Psychology for 2016-2017 admissions? If you are interested in Ball State you might apply to their PhD in School Psychology. I believe University of Memphis has a heavy emphasis in Neuropsychology in their School Psychology PhD program and their Clinical Psychology PhD program.

I am not sure if your M Ed will help in applying to PhD Clinical Psychology programs but it may help in applying to PhD School Psychology programs. With many of the PsyD programs closing, it will be more difficult for students with a low GPA to gain admissions to PhD/PsyD Clinical Psychology programs. GPA for graduate school are typically elevated due to curve so a 3.7 in a BCBA program is not considered to replace a 3.0 GPA in undergraduate programs.
 
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Neuroplast
Sep 5, 2015
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Psychology Student
Yes my goal is apply for Phd's in Clinical Psychology and then specialize in Neurospychology afterwards. Yes I am looking to apply next year if all goes well. However, I eventually would like to treat adults and not so much pediatrics so I don't want to go for school psychology, just clinical psychology. Im just worried that the M.Ed that I'm doing now would limit me from a PH.d or Psyd next year. There is one school I am interested that offers PH.d Clinical Psych with focus on Neuropsychology, it's at Drexel U in PA, any thoughts on this school?
 

OneNeuroDoctor

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PCOM has a PsyD in Clinical Psychology with Neuropsychology specialization. I am not sure of Drexel University. Here is a list of programs;

School of Professional Psychology Binghamton University

Brigham Young University
Clinical Psychology at Queens College (CUNY)

Drexel UniversityDOCTORAL PROGRAM

East Carolina University

Fielding Graduate University

Florida Institute of Technology

Fordham University

Georgia School of Professional Psychology at Argosy University

Illinois School of Professional Psychology

Kent State University

Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology

Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine

Ohio University

Pacific University

SDSU/UCSD Joint Doctoral Program in Clinical Psychology

Suffolk University

Temple University

University of Alabama at Birmingham

University of Cincinnati

University of Connecticut

University of Florida

University of Georgia

University of Houston

University of Kentucky

University of Massachusetts

University of North Texas

University of South Alabama

University of South Florida

University of Utah

University of Victoria, BC

University of Windsor

University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee

Washington University
 
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OP
Neuroplast
Sep 5, 2015
50
3
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Psychology Student
Thats why I thought of the grad certificate but would I still have a shot being that I am in a M.Ed program? I guess I figured this would happen, I'm kind of in a dead end and don't know what to do now =(

PCOM looks good, I'll keep this school in mind when applying.
 
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Therapist4Chnge

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Ignore the grad certificates, as they are weak at best. The path you'll want to take is attend a solid clinical program, where you get a solid foundation and some exposure to neuropsych classes/practica/mentorship. Then attend an APA-acred internship and then 2yr fellowship program. Lastly you'll want to get ABPP'd (boarded).

Certs, tracks, concentrations, and the like are mostly marketing.
 
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OneNeuroDoctor

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Drexel had 718 applications for 9 openings. If you are trying to stay in PA there are many Clinical Psychology programs. Drexel is hard to get into based on quality of applications.
 
OP
Neuroplast
Sep 5, 2015
50
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Psychology Student
Wow yeah that's a small margin. PA is an ideal location but I am open to change depending which school accepts me. But whats really bothering me is whether or not I will get accepted with an M.Ed degree and not good undergrad GPA =/
 

OneNeuroDoctor

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Very competitive gaining acceptance to a fully funded PhD programs. Best to apply broadly as programs in different parts of the country may be less competitive. It is easier to get into Med School than Clinical Psychology programs. PCOM is expensive but they have well known Neuropsychologists on faculty. University of South Alabama and some other programs are less competitive and are APA accredited. You might have success in getting accepted to some new programs that have recently began the APA Accreditation process.
 
OP
Neuroplast
Sep 5, 2015
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Psychology Student
Is PCOM competitive as well, like Drexel's acceptance rate? Or less picky with their acceptance? And where would I find these new APA accedited schools? I'll just focus on finishing my M.Ed program, take the GRE, land a job at a clinical trial site, work at the behavioral clinic and hopefully get accepted since it's too late for me in the game now to switch my masters degree and resolve my undergrad GPA.
 

OneNeuroDoctor

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On the APA website you can find all of the information about programs. PCOM cost around $35,000 a year in tuition whereas Drexel is a fully funded program.
 

Chalupacabra

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I strongly advise against PCOM. Their stats are not that great (their average over the past few years for APA internships is around 50%) and the school is insanely expensive, in a very expensive area of the country, and offers virtually no financial aid (which is especially disgusting given how much money they seem to spend on advertising). They have some strong faculty, but that doesn't guarantee particularly good outcomes for their students, and considering that you're looking at ~200k in debt before even accounting for living expenses and accrued interest, it just doesn't make sense from any angle you look at it.
 
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WisNeuro

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Yeah, as a neuropsychologist, I would recommend against PCOM. Too expensive, and the faculty are really not that well known, as some would have you believe.
 
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OP
Neuroplast
Sep 5, 2015
50
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Psychology Student
Does this attest the fact that the school is then not that competitive to get in since they offer no means of being fully funded and is expensive? As opposed to funded phd programs that are more competitive to get in?
 
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AcronymAllergy

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Does this attest the fact that the school is then not that competitive to get in since they offer no means of being fully funded and is expensive? As opposed to funded phd programs that are more competitive to get in?
In general, funded programs are going to be difficult to get into because A) larger numbers of (well-qualified) folks applying, and B) smaller numbers of spots, because the school/program is footing the bill. An advantage of this is more personalized attention from your advisor, as most of the smaller programs are going to work on the mentorship model (i.e., you come in and work primarily with one particular advisor for your entire grad school career).
 
Aug 21, 2015
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Just wanted to give some encouragement! ♥ We all support you and hope everything works out for the best love.

I have no clue about neuropsychology but like the above post clarify, I agree with going the clinical route and specializing in neurpsychology.

As for schools? How come you didn't want to apply to FIU's Cognitive Neuroscience program? It sucks because they have a dual program in Clinical Science and Cognitive Neuroscience but their Clinical Science program is aimed for only child and teenagers, not adults.
 

OneNeuroDoctor

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Due to competition and a 3.00 GPA you may have difficulty gaining admissions into a PhD Clinical Psychology program and may need to look at PsyD programs or another route.

For Clinical Neuropsychology it is a long process with a number of hurdles. First, you need to gain admissions and completed a doctoral clinical psychology program, preferably in an APA accredited program. Secondly, you need to complete an APA accredited predoctoral internship. Thirdly, you have to complete a two-year postdoctoral neuropsychology fellowship. Finally, it is highly recommended that you become ABPP Boarded.

When you have a low GPA it becomes crucial to have realistic expectations and apply primarily to programs where you have a realistic chance of gaining admissions.

There are programs that are very expensive and accept students with lower GPA and lower GRE scores and these programs tend to be exploitative and don't measure up to expectations. These programs make it easy to get into and hard to get out of or finish up and for students to gain success. Students may graduate but then find it difficult to pass the EPPP and become licensed.

Some of these programs are closing such as some of the Argosy, Alliant, and Forest Institute.

Some of the graduates of PhD APA accredited programs such as Fielding are not eligible to apply for licensure in some states because their curriculum is set up on mentor model with having courses on a monthly basis over four days of intensive classes and this model draws suspiciousness as not actually meeting APA guidelines.

However, some PsyD programs are high quality such as Denver, Baylor, Indiana, and others.

As a general rule, you want to gain admissions to a program with adequate faculty size to cohort class size which normally is 10-12 or lower number of students per class and 10-14 faculty members so faculty only have six or less advisees to mentor or have as RA and TA. If a program only has five full-time faculty and accepts 40-50 students per year and they have mostly adjunct faculty it most likely is very expensive and exploiting students.

Sadly, doctoral study preparation and application needs a Buyer Beware attitude using caution as you don't want to spend 6-7 years of your life with $200,000 or more in student loans without having success or obtaining licensure. Programs misrepresent information to applicants from many of the very expensive programs. APA and APPIC now has student statistics requiring programs to have accurate disclosure making it harder to misrepresent information to applicants. It does not make sense to attend one of these programs and only be able to work under your MEd license if you can't pass the EPPP and become a licensed psychologist.

There are many reasons for a low GPA and I have known of students who are very smart and gifted and had a lower GPA. However, the caveat for these students is finding a program that will accept them with a lower GPA due to competition with students meeting higher standards. Some students complete a postgraduate BA or MS Psychology degree and get accepted at a PhD Clinical Psychology program after reapplying to PhD admissions several years.

You are completing the Applied Behavioral Analysis MEd and some BCBA do very well with this credential. However, BCBA are now being regulated by Counseling or Psychology Boards requiring licensure under these boards for independent practice. It will be more difficult for teachers with MEd to gain BCBA credentials in the future without having LPC or Psychologists licensure.
 
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OP
Neuroplast
Sep 5, 2015
50
3
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Psychology Student
This information is good to know. I didn't know the low GPA = expensive school relation and vice versa with fully funded program notion. Although this sounds like its going to give me barriers and troubles to overcome in the coming years, it is very frustrating to know that I cannot change the past and this will follow me like a black rain cloud. The problem I have to face now is searching for schools that is both accredited with greater outcome success and also not so competitive in admissions as well as I will definitely most likely get run over by high GPA folks in competitive programs. I will definitely by applying at PsyD programs as well for potential greater chances, and to alot of schools. You mentioned earlier on Neuropsychology Technicians (Psychometrics) earlier in your posts, I looked this up and didn't get nothing down here in South Florida, aside from Neuropsychologist listings in the area, I'm assuming these folks administers it themselves instead of having a tech on side recording it for them. How would I go about obtaining such license? And would someone doing their Masters be qualified for something like this? I read online certifications on this and that you have to take an exam for it at another state in person. Not sure if it's legit.

Aestheticism: Thanks for the support, I envy folks that have undergrad GPA's of >3.5 but I won't think about that now because that will drag me down and I have to look forward. FIU did not have such a PhD program at the time when I graduated (class of 2013) and they have just started to add one Neuropsychology course during that time, which I unfortunately, missed out since I was already about to graduate. The initiative didn't start until later on and now they've just added that PhD program and just got recently APA accredited last year, which I'm surprised to see because back during my undergrad years I was always fascinated and interested in cognitive science courses but was limited by the courses offered. I looked at the program, and yes they do offer a PhD in Clinical Science but it targets children and adolescents. The only issue I see in the PhD in Cognitive Neuroscience is it will not lead to Neuropsychology specialization at the end. Unless there is some overlap, I don't know what I would do with a PhD in CN from FIU other than just research and research and some more research. Is there anything applied or clinical with that degree in the Neuropsych. field?
 
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AcronymAllergy

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You're already doing what I would typically recommend for someone with a lower undergrad GPA--you're earning a masters and getting good grades while there. Beyond that, knocking the GRE out of the park, having some solid research experience (particularly with perhaps a few posters or even a pub or two), and getting very strong rec letters can go a long way toward "compensating" for the 3.0.

The regulations for psychometrists are going to vary by state; I honestly don't know what they are for FL. Usually they'll require at least a bachelors, and more typically a masters, along perhaps with some type of national psychometrist certification. I don't use psychometrists myself, so those with more first-hand experience can probably provide better information than can I.
 
OP
Neuroplast
Sep 5, 2015
50
3
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Psychology Student
Thanks AcronymAllergy. I will definitely get that GRE as high as possible once I get some time, and would also come back to these forums for prep tips and stuff as I see a lot of good resources on here. Would you recommend working at clinical trials sites with behavioral medicine be helpful or posters/pub weigh heavier?

I gathered up some contacts from local Neuropsychologists and will be harassing them this week to see if they are needing any help or assistance which I can hopefully get some hands-on. Thank you again.
 
Aug 21, 2015
105
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Florida
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http://cn.fiu.edu/about/program/

http://cn.fiu.edu/about/labs/

The first link is the general information page about the program. It states that the cognitive neuroscience program overlaps with the clinical and developmental program. If you scroll down, it has a list of courses involved with the program, Idk if that helps your situation.

The second link is a page for the labs they are associated with and I seen they have about 2-3 labs related to cognitive neuroscience.


http://neuropsy.phhp.ufl.edu/

This link is for UF neuropsychology program.. I know.. UF is very competitive but why not check it out? They have laboratory for Adult Neuropsychology. It says they only accept 4-5 graduate students each year! But I believe in you love.


Hope this helps narrow down some options!
 
OP
Neuroplast
Sep 5, 2015
50
3
Status
Psychology Student
Thanks, upon looking at the program I do see there is an option for double major involved, however, I will need to contact the faculty and ask if this would ultimately lead to something applied/clinical or lead to Neuropsychology specialization. I don't want to focus solely on research but do clinical as well. In addition, I do see some new labs established since I've graduated, the Neuroinformatics and Brain Connectivity Lab (NBC) interests me the most as it looks at fMRI techniques in addiction.

As for the UF program, those acceptance rates are insane!
 
Aug 21, 2015
105
10
Florida
Status
Psychology Student
Trying to help as much as I can.

I understand your issues with trying to find a program with both. UF is extremely insane lol lord. I was scared looking at UF for psychology smh
 

PsychMajorUndergrad18

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Jan 27, 2015
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If you are trying to stay near PA why don't you check out Rutgers Psy.D program in Clinical Psychology or School Psychology (if interested). Its in Piscataway, NJ (not sure how far that is to where you are but its near PA). The Psy.D at Rutgers has very good internship placement for APA accredited internships (90-100%) and is very reputable from what I have heard from other SDNers.
 
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