Need help on considering osteopathy!

[DocRo]

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I am currently entering my senior year as an undergraduate student. Ever since I was a child, I have always wanted to become a doctor for the honest reason of healing others and because of my fascination with the human body. Unfortunately during my freshman year I took a difficult load of classes and had a little too much fun causing me to underperform in my sciences. Realizing that my GPA had suffered and that it would be difficult to get into med school with this freshman year GPA, I changed my major to business. I have since tried to hide my regret but have not been able to overcome my passion for medicine. I believe in the body's capabilities to heal itself and am firmly against subscribing medicine unless it is extremely necessary. I believe that the immense profits drug companies are making in selling pills to cure disease have created a "pill-popping" society misguided about the benefits of using drugs and uninformed about better alternatives.
For this reason I am considering osteopathy. I have heard that over the years osteopathy has lost its natural origins that were present in its establishment many years ago. Is this true? And if so, what schools still teach the original fundamentals of osteopathy? Also, how similar is osteopathy to chiropractic. Because I know that the basis of chiropractic is the belief in the body's innate healing capabilities through manipulation of the spine. And what GPA and MCAT score is necessary to be accepted into DO school? I look forward to reading your responses and thank you for listening!

 

[Fermata]

Some things you need to consider:

1.) Most choose DO by default. Most DO students simply do not have the grades to be in American DO schools. I'm not saying this to be insulting...but you might be disappointed when you find that your classmates aren't into the philosophy like you are.
2.) Unlike Chiropracty, Osteopathy is evidence-based(exception OMT - I know, I know....research is getting there).
3.) This is a big one: once you graduate after 4 years the osteopathic leadership cares nothing about you. The continuing osteopathic medical education system SUCKS.
4.) With the exception of the state schools - osteopathic medical tuition is RAPE.

This all being said...

5.) Every DO I've ever met was a kind and competant physician.

DO schools tend to be far more forgiving to "academic cul de sacs".
My advice is to shadow a DO and make a decision from there. No DO I've met in practice still uses OMT. I'm not saying that many don't use it....but the DO philosophy seems to have waned over time. In fact.....DO's are pretty much indistinguisable from MD's.

Since the degrees are pretty much the same I'd say apply to both MD and DO.

You really can't go wrong either way but, generally, MD schools seem to win in the indebtness and ability to match into specialty of choice categories.

Take care.

 

[Luck]

Some things you need to consider:

1.) Most choose DO by default. Most DO students simply do not have the grades to be in American DO schools. I'm not saying this to be insulting...but you might be disappointed when you find that your classmates aren't into the philosophy like you are.
2.) Unlike Chiropracty, Osteopathy is evidence-based(exception OMT - I know, I know....research is getting there).
3.) This is a big one: once you graduate after 4 years the osteopathic leadership cares nothing about you. The continuing osteopathic medical education system SUCKS.
4.) With the exception of the state schools - osteopathic medical tuition is RAPE.

This all being said...

5.) Every DO I've ever met was a kind and competant physician.

DO schools tend to be far more forgiving to "academic cul de sacs".
My advice is to shadow a DO and make a decision from there. No DO I've met in practice still uses OMT. I'm not saying that many don't use it....but the DO philosophy seems to have waned over time. In fact.....DO's are pretty much indistinguisable from MD's.

Since the degrees are pretty much the same I'd say apply to both MD and DO.

You really can't go wrong either way but, generally, MD schools seem to win in the indebtness and ability to match into specialty of choice categories.

Take care.

1. Most do not choose DO by default. Maybe some but not all. You are mistaken sir. Do not believe all you read on SDN. It is obvious you are just a premed student.

3. You know nothing about the AOA leadership. You assume that since a some people have complained on SDN, that the AOA sucks. Also, not all AOA residencies are bad. Again, you know nothing other than what has been said on SDN.

4. Osteopathic tuition is not rape. It is equivalent to private MD schools and some state schools have cheap tuition like TCOM. Again you do not know what you're talking about.

Please do not say statements that are obviously frivilous especially since it appears you do not know of what you say.

 

[nicholastoday]

I would certainly like to know where "Fermata" is getting all this information.

 

[Fermata]

1. Most do not choose DO by default. Maybe some but not all. You are mistaken sir. Do not believe all you read on SDN. It is obvious you are just a premed student.

3. You know nothing about the AOA leadership. You assume that since a some people have complained on SDN, that the AOA sucks. Also, not all AOA residencies are bad. Again, you know nothing other than what has been said on SDN.

4. Osteopathic tuition is not rape. It is equivalent to private MD schools and some state schools have cheap tuition like TCOM. Again you do not know what you're talking about.

Please do not say statements that are obviously frivilous especially since it appears you do not know of what you say.

1.) DO students tend to be a self-selecting group.
3.) The AOA letting all these new schools opening up without investing in more residency programs is not a brilliant idea.
4.) I already qualified the tuition cost at state DO schools being cheaper. However, the tuition is still rape. I'm not saying that some MD schools are not guilty of this either.

 

[Luck]

1.) DO students tend to be a self-selecting group.
3.) The AOA letting all these new schools opening up without investing in more residency programs is not a brilliant idea.
4.) I already qualified the tuition cost at state DO schools being cheaper. However, the tuition is still rape. I'm not saying that some MD schools are not guilty of this either.

1) Whatever that means. 😕
3) How does that say that AOA doesn't care about its students. Your logic does not make sense. You do not know if the AOA is investing in its residency programs. You're not the expert of what the AOA does. Just because they let schools open doesn't mean they're not helping their students.
4) You should have mentioned MD private schools were like rape to. Simply saying DO school tuition was rape seemed like you were trying to say only DO schools were doing this.

 

[nicholastoday]

It sounds to me like many opinions are floating around without much fact behind them.

I'm just curious, why do you think that there hasn't been any new MD schools lately? The population is still growing and the need for more physicians will be even greater as America's population ages. Perhaps it is a good thing that there are new medical schools being formed.

 

[Fermata]

1) Whatever that means. 😕
3) How does that say that AOA doesn't care about its students. Your logic does not make sense. You do not know if the AOA is investing in its residency programs. You're not the expert of what the AOA does. Just because they let schools open doesn't mean they're not helping their students.
4) You should have mentioned MD private schools were like rape to. Simply saying DO school tuition was rape seemed like you were trying to say only DO schools were doing this.

A lot of DO schools rely on physican volunteers for rotations.

And if more DO schools keep opening without improvement of CME...then that means that more DO grads will just end up in MD residencies....that doesn't seem to be in the AOA's interest.

And yes...some private MD tuition is rape. Well...most of them. 😀

I'm not trying to knock DO. It just seems like that is something one should know about before signing up.

To bust your butt and pay all this money to find yourself in a MD residency may not be to his/her liking.

 

[Fermata]

It sounds to me like many opinions are floating around without much fact behind them.

I'm just curious, why do you think that there hasn't been any new MD schools lately? The population is still growing and the need for more physicians will be even greater as America's population ages. Perhaps it is a good thing that there are new medical schools being formed.

There's a new on in Florida opening up.

I'm not arguing if it's bad/good for more schools to be opening up. But for more DO schools to be opening up without enough residency spots for DO grads seems like an injustice to me.

 

[Howard Roark]

go MD if you can and then practice any way that you please

if you want to treat the whole person knock yourself out

i just wanna treat knees, elbows, etc

 

[delicatefade]

go MD if you can and then practice any way that you please

if you want to treat the whole person knock yourself out

i just wanna treat knees, elbows, etc

If that's all you want to do, you will be a horribly unsuccessful physician. And that is coming from a PT, not a pre-DO student.

 

[delicatefade]

you got me then. good game

 

[skypilot]

I'm not arguing if it's bad/good for more schools to be opening up. But for more DO schools to be opening up without enough residency spots for DO grads seems like an injustice to me.

The vast majority of DOs do allopathic residencies. (Over 65%) So in general you should expect that you will be doing a residency with MD colleagues and not practicing a whole lot of OMM. 🙂 You can do your osteopathic rotating internship at surprising allopathic locations like the University of Massachusetts Medical school and the University of Connecticut School of Medicine. 🙂 So basically the question is not whether you want to be an osteopathic physician but whether you want to be a physician. Then apply to schools accordingly.

 

[Fermata]

self selecting group?

true if you mean that they all select to score 22 on the MCAT

Hehe. That's not what I meant. 😀

I think if more people knew what a DO was then there'd be more applicants.

 

[Dr Dean]

ROARRRRRRRRRRRRRRR If you really want to be a doctor then apply to a lot of states. ARIZONA, WISCONSIN, OHIO, WASHINGTON, NEW YORK, RARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR You will make it. DO is a fine route to become a doctor. Now start studying already. RARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[delicatefade]

self-selecting?

they all select to score 22 on the mcat i guess

I know you were kidding before but this one is a little insulting.

 

[nicholastoday]

I know it makes people feel better about themselves to denegrate others. I am proud to be going to medical school this fall and in the end the school I attend will be just one part of my education.

Also I think it is important to note that the clinical training of osteopathic students differs fundamentally from allopathic in that traditionally allopathic schools have trained in an affliliated hospital whereas osteopathic schools train throughout a community. There also tends to be more flexibilty with osteopathic rotations.

Please no more quabbles about which type of schooling is better. Lets just concentrate on being good physicians.

 

[Luck]

There's a new on in Florida opening up.

I'm not arguing if it's bad/good for more schools to be opening up. But for more DO schools to be opening up without enough residency spots for DO grads seems like an injustice to me.

As skypilot said, about 65% go to MD residencies anyway. There are plenty of open allopathic residency spots available that go to FMGs anyway so I don't see a problem with it. After all, allopathic residencies are of very good quality as you probably would agree so why not let DOs take those spots.

 

[Cowboy DO]

...The continuing osteopathic medical education system SUCKS. ...

...And if more DO schools keep opening without improvement of CME...

Firstly, learn the difference between CME and GME. continuing medical education is for physicians who have completed residency already. CME is a requirement, something like 100hrs, that you do by attending lectures/conferences/etc.

Secondly, (quoting the big labowski) well...like...thats your opinion man...
I mean really its obvious your not even in med school yet, and you get all your info from SDN. I like my school, and my education. Do I pay alot, sure but for me its not about the money. Its about doing something i love.

Also I will agree that there are problems w/ Osteopathic GME and AOA leadership. Everyone gvetches about the system they are in, how many americans give our government crap? Its just the way people behave, its better than staying stagnant and just living with the way things are like the AMA. What I cannot do is compare OGME with the ACGME (becasue I have no experience with ACGME, but thats something you apparently dont need to form an opinion). But to say Osteopathic GME SUCKS (in capital letters), is outrageous. Again I have no idea but maybe its not as good as ACGME, maybe, however there is no doubt in my mind that should i chouse to do an AOA residency I will come out a damn good physician, and thats all that really matters in the end. I guess I dont understand. If...

5.) Every DO I've ever met was a kind and competant physician.

Then how is it possible that Osteopathic residencies SUCK???

 

[Drfting Sun]

Troll feeding is funny. 🙂

Feed it tasty treats like this:

NYCOM and its affiliates have already planned to begin opening up new osteopathic residencies (taken from the NYCOMEC 2004 factbook):

a) Benedictine Hospital: 4 PGY1 Traditional Rotating Internships (TRI)
b) Brookdale University Hospital & Medical Center: 12 approved, 6 funded (TRI)
c) Good Samaritan Hospital Medical Center:
i) Emergency Medicine: 12 proposed
ii) Family Practice: 30 approved
iii) OB/GYN: 12 approved
iv) Pediatrics: 8 approved

The list goes on through 14 other hospitals having residency positions planned, approved or funded (meaning the money is there for the resident to come) including those listed above and general surgery, neurosurgery, urological surgery, internal medicine, orthopedic surgery, ENT/plastic surgery, and a fellowship postion in cardiology.

Let's start getting facts out here: NYCOM is just one Osteopathic school. Positoins will be opening, and are planned now.

The AOA has to approve residencies and fellowship. Funding for GME comes from the hospitals. CME comes from your pocket once you're practicing: http://do-online.osteotech.org/index.cfm?PageID=cme_guidereqs

I'd like to think that NYCOM isn't the only osteopathic college out there connected with hospitals that are developing AOA-approved residencies. Will anyone back me up with facts?

The OP's request was that the person needed help on considering osteopathy. From the OP's post, it seems there is little left than to go with your inclination towards osteopathy.

There was a very good thread around here somewhere (fumbles through) that discussed Chiropractic vs. OMM/OMT, but I don't have it to post. The OP should do a pre-DO search for it; the yield will be great in that you see a chiro or two talk about vertebral Subluxations (vertebrae are outta line) and a couple of MS-III's and MS-IV's talking about OMM/OMT focusing on fascia (muscles, tendons, ligaments) and pressure points for a range of fact-based treatments of specific complications.

I, personally, refer the OP to the book by DiGiovanna, "An Osteopathic Approach to Diagnosis and Treatment" for a very succinct intro into Osteopathic history and some of the various techniques taught, as well as an intro to how DO's code vetebral subluxations (yeah, there's not a capital S here because DOs use subluxation as a term, not a facet of the "philosophy"). Get the book and read through it. At least when you go to a DO interview, you'll have a knowledge of the history, and you'll have seen a bit of what you'll (possibly) be doing as a board-certified physician.

 

[Drfting Sun]

Troll feeding is funny. 🙂

Feed it tasty treats like this:

NYCOM and its affiliates have already planned to begin opening up new osteopathic residencies (taken from the NYCOMEC 2004 factbook):

a) Benedictine Hospital: 4 PGY1 Traditional Rotating Internships (TRI)
b) Brookdale University Hospital & Medical Center: 12 approved, 6 funded (TRI)
c) Good Samaritan Hospital Medical Center:
i) Emergency Medicine: 12 proposed
ii) Family Practice: 30 approved
iii) OB/GYN: 12 approved
iv) Pediatrics: 8 approved

The list goes on through 14 other hospitals having residency positions planned, approved or funded (meaning the money is there for the resident to come) including those listed above and general surgery, neurosurgery, urological surgery, internal medicine, orthopedic surgery, ENT/plastic surgery, and a fellowship position in cardiology.

Let's start getting facts out here: NYCOM is just one Osteopathic school. Positions will be opening, and are planned now.

The AOA has to approve residencies and fellowships. Funding for GME comes from the hospitals. CME comes from your pocket once you're practicing: http://do-online.osteotech.org/index.cfm?PageID=cme_guidereqs

I'd like to think that NYCOM isn't the only osteopathic college out there connected with hospitals that are developing AOA-approved residencies. Will anyone back me up with facts?

The OP's request was that the person needed help on considering osteopathy. From the OP's post, it seems there is little left than to go with your inclination towards osteopathy.

There was a very good thread around here somewhere (fumbles through) that discussed Chiropractic vs. OMM/OMT, but I don't have it to post. The OP should do a pre-DO search for it; the yield will be great in that you see a chiro or two talk about vertebral Subluxations (vertebrae are outta line) and a couple of MS-III's and MS-IV's talking about OMM/OMT focusing on fascia (muscles, tendons, ligaments) and pressure points for a range of fact-based treatments of specific complications.

I, personally, refer the OP to the book by DiGiovanna, "An Osteopathic Approach to Diagnosis and Treatment" for a very succinct intro into Osteopathic history and some of the various techniques taught, as well as an intro to how DO's code vetebral subluxations (yeah, there's not a capital S here because DOs use subluxation as a term, not a facet of the "philosophy"). Get the book and read through it. At least when you go to a DO interview, you'll have a knowledge of the history, and you'll have seen a bit of what you'll (possibly) be doing as a board-certified physician.