Need Help Staking the Odds

[T Brown]

Hello Everyone I'm new to the board and need some help !!

I am a first year Psy D in Clinical Forensic Psychology @ the Chicago School in Chicago, IL. I only applied for one school. I didn't want to move, up-root my children and I was only interested in this specialty. Any who, I have a masters (4.0GPA), two post-masters certificates (forensic psychology and applied behavior analysis) and many years of work experience in community mental health, the court system, foster care and varying behavior settings. I'm getting additional clinical and court experience this upcoming semester and will be applying for diagnostic practicum in about two weeks. It is my goal to work within the court systems (family, domestic and child welfare) assessing and counseling families. The Chicago School's Forensic department has a clinic on site that works directly with the Cook County Court Systems amongst other things. I am participating in a Family Mediation program and working with Adult offenders (I did that last semester as well). I will be doing some data collection and observations at the Cook County Domestic Violence Court next month as well.

Here are my questions:
1. I want to ensure I am competitive during the internship process which I will not go into for another 2.5/3 years. What should I be adding to my experience to ensure I am competitive?
2. How important is research experience coming from a PsyD program when applying for internship?
3. What's the best way gain additional research experience?

Thanks for any help anyone can offer

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[erg923]

1. Breadth of clincial experience/exposure..but also some specialized experience in forensic applications if you want a forensically geared internship (I would assume).

2. Empty CVs are bad. Do soemthing to look like you are not just a masters student with a couple extra years clinical experience.

3. I would hope through professors at your university? Thats kinda what they are there for and what they get paid for....

 

[T Brown]

1. Breadth of clincial experience/exposure..but also some specialized experience in forensic applications if you want a forensically geared internship (I would assume).

2. Emty CVs are bad. Do soemthing to look like you are not just a masters student with a couple extra years clinical experience.

3. I would hope through professors at your university? Thats kinda what they are there for and what they get paid for....

ty

Thank you for you feedback.......
What's considered an "empty CV"? Mine is pretty robust thus far and its just my first semester. What are some areas that stand out during the internship process?
Publications?
Research?
presentations?
All of the above? and then some?

I just don't want to be singing my shoulda coulda wouldas in a few years. I want to plan this next few years appropriately to ensure I have the best chances of matching. Thanks again

 

[erg923]

I was referring to empty in the research section.

 

[WisNeuro]

WAMC thread.

 

[Member1928]

I do a quick APPIC search and nose through the internship programs that have a forensic emphasis. I would look at the faculty from those internship programs and specifically at the types of conferences they attend. I would then try to present research at those conferences and make sure you do a tad bit of networking with some internship faculty. There's a pretty solid association between having at least one peer-reviewed publication and matching for internship. With the clinical experience you bring to the table already, I would bust ass and build up the research side of your CV.

 

[cara susanna]

WAMC thread.

That's only for grad school apps, not internship.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You need to get a solid foundation in GENERALIST training before trying to specialize. Being too niche will leave some large holes in your training that will be problematic down the road (e.g. on your CV, EPPP, in practice, etc). Developing as a well-rounded clinical scientist will get you farther than any one thing you can add to your CV.

 

[WisNeuro]

That's only for grad school apps, not internship.

Ah, fair enough, didn't read enough of that.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

You need to get a solid foundation in GENERALIST training before trying to specialize. Being too niche will leave some large holes in your training that will be problematic down the road (e.g. on your CV, EPPP, in practice, etc). Developing as a well-rounded clinical scientist will get you farther than any one thing you can add to your CV.

Although they seem like they may have already screwed themselves in that department.

 

[cara susanna]

Isn't it difficult to work in forensics if your degree is from a professional school?

 

[bcliff]

Isn't it difficult to work in forensics if your degree is from a professional school?

I know a psychologist in private practice who does a lot of forensic work (sanity evaluations; work-release evaluations; etc.) and their degree is from a FSPS (a FSPS which is now on probation).

 

[erg923]

Alot of thoe schools mrket forenisc tracks as a marketing ploy. Most of them become service clinician in forensic facilities, not exactly famous "expert" witnesses/leaders in the field.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Alot of thoe schools mrket forenisc tracks as a marketing ploy. Most of them become service clinician in forensic facilities, not exactly famous "expert" witnesses/leaders in the field.

Yeah, at least in my experience, this is the more typical path that most forensics folks seem to aim for and follow, regardless of where they got their degree. And especially at state-run facilities in less-popular areas of the country, the positions seem to have a hard time staying filled, which I'd imagine is due to a high turnover rate.

 

[T Brown]

You need to get a solid foundation in GENERALIST training before trying to specialize. Being too niche will leave some large holes in your training that will be problematic down the road (e.g. on your CV, EPPP, in practice, etc). Developing as a well-rounded clinical scientist will get you farther than any one thing you can add to your CV.

I have a lot of generalist training prior to coming into this program. Of course I didn't put every single thing on my CV in the post. Are you suggesting that I continue generalist training throughout PsyD?

 

[T Brown]

I know a psychologist in private practice who does a lot of forensic work (sanity evaluations; work-release evaluations; etc.) and their degree is from a FSPS (a FSPS which is now on probation).

What does FSPS stand for?

 

[T Brown]

Alot of thoe schools mrket forenisc tracks as a marketing ploy. Most of them become service clinician in forensic facilities, not exactly famous "expert" witnesses/leaders in the field.

They make it very clear during interviews that we will most likely not become expert witnesses or FBI criminal profilers. The majority of my cohort members are interested in working in jails as Psychologist. I'm the minority, wanting to working in the court system, maybe 2 of 26 people.

 

[bcliff]

What does FSPS stand for?

Free Standing Professional School (i.e. Argosy, Alliant, etc.) as opposed to a university based program.

 

[erg923]

I have a lot of generalist training prior to coming into this program. Of course I didn't put every single thing on my CV in the post. Are you suggesting that I continue generalist training throughout PsyD?

Breadth of clinical training is important. I dont think you can call yourself a "psychologist" if you cant run a CBT protocol for garden variety depression, interpret and WAIS and MMPI, or know how to run/calculate an ANOVA.

 

[T Brown]

Free Standing Professional School (i.e. Argosy, Alliant, etc.) as opposed to a university based program.

Why are so many people anti-FSPS?

 

[erg923]

Market flooding, low admission standards, tuition 3 times an annual psychologist's salary, poor internship match rates, poor EPPP scores, lack of scholarly productivity by faculty and students. But you can search the board if you want to find out more about the reputation of your school.

 

[T Brown]

Breadth of clinical training is important. I dont think you can call yourself a "psychologist" if you cant run a CBT protocol for garden variety depression, interpret and WAIS and MMPI, or know how to run/calculate an ANOVA.

All that is built into the program. Last semester were full battery intelligence assessments including but not limited to the WAIS. This upcoming semester we have full battery personality assessments including but not limited to the MMPI. ANOVA is covered in Sats. CBT is the foundation of Forensic Training. We also are trained in the other "protocols". Depending on your track (child and family, law enforcement etc.) we get additional "protocol" training. I'm not sure why so many people think coming from a "specialty" program means you are only trained in that specialty. For our school that's just not the case. We are trained as general psychologist with specialized knowledge in forensic. Our program in the exact model of the Clinical PsyD program with the forensic components added to it.

 

[T Brown]

Market flooding, low admission standards, tuition 3 times an annual psychologist's salary, poor internship match rates, poor EPPP scores, lack of scholarly productivity by faculty and students. But you can search the board if you want to find out more about the reputation of your school.

Did you attend the Chicago School?
I actually did search the boards and googled the school in general way before attending. What you are stating is not true in relation to the CHICAGO site.

 

[erg923]

No. And what metrics are you using?

 

[T Brown]

No. And what metrics are you using?

Depends on what you are trying to measure

 

[erg923]

All the variables I mentioned above. What does the data say?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I have a lot of generalist training prior to coming into this program. Of course I didn't put every single thing on my CV in the post. Are you suggesting that I continue generalist training throughout PsyD?

Yes. Masters training and Doctoral training can be an Apples & Oranges comparison. I have lectured in multiple degree programs (Masters: Mental Health, Specialist: School Psych, Doctoral: Clinical Psych, Med School) and the breadth and depth of topics can vary greatly by degree. For instance, a Psychopathology course at the doctoral level tends to spend a lot more time on prevalence rates, genetic underpinnings, differential dx, etc while the School and MS equivalent classes were more of a survey course that provided an overview of disorders, criterion according to the DSM, etc. The goals and objectives of each class varied, so there was no "better" or "worse" training, it was just different depending upon what was needed for the training.

My admitted bias when it comes to "specialized" training is that it should only be done during the advanced years after a solid foundation is made in what makes a psychologist. I'm not saying that a person can't be adequately trained in more generalist areas if they start incorporating more specialized training earlier on in their education, but I personally would have doubts about the breadth and depth of those skills.

 

[T Brown]

All the variables I mentioned above. What does the data say?

Back to the question at hand

Tell me this........ What was on your CV when you applied for internship? Did you get selected first round? Did you get selected for your first pick? What school did you attend? Are you published? Do you have a specialty?

 

[erg923]

I dont think you need to know any of that to answer your orginal question. You have been provided solid, helpful responses from from psychologists in the field (I work in the VA) and other current grad students.

 

[erg923]

I thinking poking around at the data provided by appic would be helpful as well.
http://www.appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/MatchStatistics2013PhaseI.aspx
http://www.appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/ApplicantSurvey2011Part3.aspx

 

[T Brown]

I thinking poking around at the data provided by appic would be helpful as well.
http://www.appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/MatchStatistics2013PhaseI.aspx
http://www.appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/ApplicantSurvey2011Part3.aspx

Actually I am well aware of the data
What point are you trying to make with the questions in relation to the program and now the stats? I understand you aren't for professional schools and I'm sure you have your reasons. That's fine.
I did research before entering this school and knew what was working against me. I was simply looking for some advice from professionals on how to maximize my years leading up to internship and "stack the odds" in my favor.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

To get this back on topic….here is what was asked.

Here are my questions:
1. I want to ensure I am competitive during the internship process which I will not go into for another 2.5/3 years. What should I be adding to my experience to ensure I am competitive?
2. How important is research experience coming from a PsyD program when applying for internship?
3. What's the best way gain additional research experience?

1. Well rounded education as a psychologist. No supervisor on internship wants to get stuck doing remedial training, which is why having a strong foundation is important. Internship is about polishing existing skills and filling in small gaps to ensure competency. Your CV should reflect exposure to a range of populations, training in therapy, assessment, and related interventions. Research productivity should also be evident by at least a few presentations and a publication.
2. Just as important as coming from a Ph.D. program, as internship sites typically want someone with a good foundation of training…which includes a solid grasp of research and statistics.
3. Work with mentors at your program, take additional classes/seminars in related topics, and show some productivity by presenting and publishing.

In addition to: Post #2, #6, #8, #19.

 

[WisNeuro]

1) What T4C said.
2) If someone doesn't have exposure to quality research, including a pub and/or presentations, I don't seriously consider the application
3) If you can't get it in your program, work your ass off to get involved through a prac site.

 

[erg923]

Actually I am well aware of the data
What point are you trying to make with the questions in relation to the program and now the stats? I understand you aren't for professional schools and I'm sure you have your reasons. That's fine.
I did research before entering this school and knew what was working against me. I was simply looking for some advice from professionals on how to maximize my years leading up to internship and "stack the odds" in my favor.

Stats provide with the best possible answer to your question because of the large N (e.g., generalizability, increase validity and reliability). I am not sure how else to answer the question or what else you want to hear? I already provided a qualitative response in post#2.