Need help! STEP 2CK fail :(...

[Canadianey]

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Hello everyone,
I haven't posted much on this website, but have been a silent follower. I am in desperate need for some advice.
I got my result back for CK 2 weeks ago and failed by 2 points, and got a 207. I have been insanely devastated as I took all the NBME with my scores ranging from 230-242. The UWSA was at 228 (2 weeks out). Latest NBME was 242 (3 days before the exam).

I am unsure of what happened, it could be because I did not eat properly during the exam, or just the sheer stress of the exam, or maybe I really didn't know anything...

A little about myself:
I am an Canadian IMG. I have amazing LORS (4+ from surgeons), got honours in each of my clinical clerkship, have passed my graduation exam, have 1 published research, 3 down the pipeline of being published, and lots of extracurricular activities (president at my school for student committee, FMIG member, research committee member). Passed Step 1 with 210, passed Step 2 CS with honors in all 3 sections (both on first attempt). Now, the problem is I am madly in love with surgery. I was hoping to knock this exam out of the park...

I am retaking the exam in 3 weeks time. I have a few questions for anyone who is willing to help.

1) I got the lowest score on my score report for "Health Prevention and Surveillance".. I absolutely overlooked all the risk factors, and such and had numerous risk factor questions. What source can I use to help me with this? I have used uWorld, Kaplan, Step 2 Secrets, MTB 2, MTB3. I'm a bit lost. The questions were all geared towards "modifiable risks" with smoking being the option in each one. I was being an idiot, and selected that for most of the answers (the patient smoked).

2) What is a good source for psych? It was also the lowest.. I don't know what else to do for it? It was insanely difficult. I have used UWorld, Kaplan, MTB 2, MTB3, Step 2 Secret, Step up 2 Medicine.

3) What do I use for biostats? This was also a problem on my exam. I overlooked this (my mistake), and did not pay much attention to it. What do you guys recommend for that.

4) In regards to the ERAS application - should I submit with my transcript? or wait. Or do I mention it in the personal statement that I am retaking it, and hope that someone will overlook my screw up.

I truly hope someone can help me out.
Sorry for the super long message.

 

[malin]

Hello everyone,
I haven't posted much on this website, but have been a silent follower. I am in desperate need for some advice.
I got my result back for CK 2 weeks ago and failed by 2 points, and got a 207. I have been insanely devastated as I took all the NBME with my scores ranging from 230-242. The UWSA was at 228 (2 weeks out). Latest NBME was 242 (3 days before the exam).

I am unsure of what happened, it could be because I did not eat properly during the exam, or just the sheer stress of the exam, or maybe I really didn't know anything...

A little about myself:
I am an Canadian IMG. I have amazing LORS (4+ from surgeons), got honours in each of my clinical clerkship, have passed my graduation exam, have 1 published research, 3 down the pipeline of being published, and lots of extracurricular activities (president at my school for student committee, FMIG member, research committee member). Passed Step 1 with 210, passed Step 2 CS with honors in all 3 sections (both on first attempt). Now, the problem is I am madly in love with surgery. I was hoping to knock this exam out of the park...

I am retaking the exam in 3 weeks time. I have a few questions for anyone who is willing to help.

1) I got the lowest score on my score report for "Health Prevention and Surveillance".. I absolutely overlooked all the risk factors, and such and had numerous risk factor questions. What source can I use to help me with this? I have used uWorld, Kaplan, Step 2 Secrets, MTB 2, MTB3. I'm a bit lost. The questions were all geared towards "modifiable risks" with smoking being the option in each one. I was being an idiot, and selected that for most of the answers (the patient smoked).

Not sure here. You basically listed all the main resources. Usually it's how you used UWorld, not whether you did or not (everyone uses it). I'd see if you can find this content in UW and study it again.

2) What is a good source for psych? It was also the lowest.. I don't know what else to do for it? It was insanely difficult. I have used UWorld, Kaplan, MTB 2, MTB3, Step 2 Secret, Step up 2 Medicine.

First aid for psychiatry (not the psych section in FA Step 2, but the actual book FA for Psych) is good. But even though it's on CK, it's not as high yield as internal medicine and pediatrics. With only 3 weeks to study I would just know the psych in UW and maybe the psych in MTB. In terms of return on investment, studying psych is not going to help so much compared to working on weaknesses in IM, surgery, peds, etc. You can try redoing UWorld and re-reading the explanations (not just the right answers, but also the wrong answer choices)
3) What do I use for biostats? This was also a problem on my exam. I overlooked this (my mistake), and did not pay much attention to it. What do you guys recommend for that.

UW Biostats section. For me, I also used the Biostats section from FA for Step 1 to make sure I knew all the formulas and diagrams and whatnot.
4) In regards to the ERAS application - should I submit with my transcript? or wait. Or do I mention it in the personal statement that I am retaking it, and hope that someone will overlook my screw up.

Haven't most people already submitted ERAS? In any case I would refrain from submitting your Step 2 score for now. Program directors might be suspicious if they don't see a CK score, but they could also assume you're maybe taking it later in the year. depending on what you're applying for, taking CK late may get you fewer interviews, but the moment they see a failed score, theyre going to have hesitation. Why give you an interview when they can interview someone that they know can start residency on day 1 for sure. Don't send your USMLE transcript until you pass CK. Also talk to your school's deans/advisors and see what they think.
I truly hope someone can help me out.
Sorry for the super long message.

See bolded above..

 

[Canadianey]

See bolded above..

Hi,
Thank you for your response. I'll definitely check out the sources you mentioned.
I didn't submit my application yet, because I was afraid of what to do... The dean at my school is telling me there is no point of applying into surgery and I should give up my dreams entirely - and focus on family medicine.

 

[malin]

You got the 210 on Step 1, and even if you got like a 230 on Step 2 (somewhat comparable score), it was still going to be somewhat challenging for surgery, especially applying from Canada, but like you mention you have strong LoRs, research. If I'm not mistaken you can apply into both surgery and Family Medicine on ERAS. The programs won't know that you do this. It might be challenging at this point if you've gotten all your letters from surgeons and would have to scour for letters from people who can advocate you going into Family Medicine, especially with apps already submitted by a lot of people.

You also have to be careful b/c sometimes deans want their #s to look good and will just tell you whatever is most likely to get you to match somewhere, even if they're against your wishes. Don't give up those dreams yet, but also be aware of what's realistic. If you can, submit your ERAS without submitting your Step 2 score and see what happens. This is far better than letting programs know you failed Step 2 and don't yet have a passing score, but even then, it could look somewhat suspicious if an IMG (who usually have both completed) only has a Step 1. You take it again in a few weeks and then don't get results for at least another 3-4 weeks. And your practice scores were good so I wouldn't stress too much, but do be careful b/c with these exams if Im not mistaken you can only fail them each 3 times before USMLE says you can't take them again for 5-7 years. So don't rush into it either.

 

[malin]

You might also want to post this in a Surgery forum or even other specialty forums on SDN. I'm just giving my perspective. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is. If you fail CK right around the time apps are being reviewed then sometimes you might need to even apply next cycle if you're really dead set on surgery. Other people might say that or disagree with that, but there's no way you can apply with a failed CK. You need to at least have a passing CK. Some programs might even like if you show that you passed Step 3 as it'll ease any uncertainty they have about you. First focus on passing CK but post in the surgery residency forum here on SDN to get some better insights and see if you can still apply this cycle even if you pass CK (unfortunately for you, you won't find out for another 6-7 weeks from today, and I'm not sure if it's even worth submitting apps if you only have a weak Step 1 with no CK). So just think about delaying your application cycle to next year if you really want to do surgery--I'm not saying it's the only option, but start considering it as a possibility and maybe even prepare for it. All the best!

 

[Canadianey]

You might also want to post this in a Surgery forum or even other specialty forums on SDN. I'm just giving my perspective. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is. If you fail CK right around the time apps are being reviewed then sometimes you might need to even apply next cycle if you're really dead set on surgery. Other people might say that or disagree with that, but there's no way you can apply with a failed CK. You need to at least have a passing CK. Some programs might even like if you show that you passed Step 3 as it'll ease any uncertainty they have about you. First focus on passing CK but post in the surgery residency forum here on SDN to get some better insights and see if you can still apply this cycle even if you pass CK (unfortunately for you, you won't find out for another 6-7 weeks from today, and I'm not sure if it's even worth submitting apps if you only have a weak Step 1 with no CK). So just think about delaying your application cycle to next year if you really want to do surgery--I'm not saying it's the only option, but start considering it as a possibility and maybe even prepare for it. All the best!

Thank you for your answer!
I have one question for you... does it look bad if I apply this year, and don't match? I mean, I understand I lose the money, and such, but does it hurt me in anyway?

 

[Canadianey]

You got the 210 on Step 1, and even if you got like a 230 on Step 2 (somewhat comparable score), it was still going to be somewhat challenging for surgery, especially applying from Canada, but like you mention you have strong LoRs, research. If I'm not mistaken you can apply into both surgery and Family Medicine on ERAS. The programs won't know that you do this. It might be challenging at this point if you've gotten all your letters from surgeons and would have to scour for letters from people who can advocate you going into Family Medicine, especially with apps already submitted by a lot of people.

You also have to be careful b/c sometimes deans want their #s to look good and will just tell you whatever is most likely to get you to match somewhere, even if they're against your wishes. Don't give up those dreams yet, but also be aware of what's realistic. If you can, submit your ERAS without submitting your Step 2 score and see what happens. This is far better than letting programs know you failed Step 2 and don't yet have a passing score, but even then, it could look somewhat suspicious if an IMG (who usually have both completed) only has a Step 1. You take it again in a few weeks and then don't get results for at least another 3-4 weeks. And your practice scores were good so I wouldn't stress too much, but do be careful b/c with these exams if Im not mistaken you can only fail them each 3 times before USMLE says you can't take them again for 5-7 years. So don't rush into it either.

I definitely understand. I wasn't even going for surgery when I first started medical school, it was only in clinicals that everything else just seemed so painfully slow... I know that sounds horrible, but I really enjoy doing hands on stuff. The only other elective I really liked was emergency medicine, but, I only have one LOR from there, and the rest of my letters are all geared for surgery. Even my OBGYN focused on the surgical aspect of the rotation (that's what she told me, I haven't read it). I'll definitely take it into consideration. I just don't think I'm cut out for exams. But I'll definitely give it a shot without step 2. Thank you for your feedback.

 

[malin]

I definitely understand. I wasn't even going for surgery when I first started medical school, it was only in clinicals that everything else just seemed so painfully slow... I know that sounds horrible, but I really enjoy doing hands on stuff. The only other elective I really liked was emergency medicine, but, I only have one LOR from there, and the rest of my letters are all geared for surgery. Even my OBGYN focused on the surgical aspect of the rotation (that's what she told me, I haven't read it). I'll definitely take it into consideration. I just don't think I'm cut out for exams. But I'll definitely give it a shot without step 2. Thank you for your feedback.

Just depends on how much money you're willing to burn this cycle as well. I don't know how it will be perceived if you only apply with a Step 1 and no CK. Any PD would be slightly hesitant to give out an interview in that case. But you can try and just see what happens.

To answer your earlier question about whether it looks bad to not match vs not even applying until next year, I'm not entirely sure, but I would just give it a shot anyways. I don't think you'll fail CK a 2nd time, but if you do, any money you invested now into your application would go down the drain.

If ERAS allows you to only submit Step 1 w/o a CK, I wouldn't be surprised if you get no interviews this cycle [for surgery as an IMG, but Canada>other international med schools]. But this is your dream, so perhaps worth a shot.

 

[Canadianey]

Just depends on how much money you're willing to burn this cycle as well. I don't know how it will be perceived if you only apply with a Step 1 and no CK. Any PD would be slightly hesitant to give out an interview in that case. But you can try and just see what happens.

To answer your earlier question about whether it looks bad to not match vs not even applying until next year, I'm not entirely sure, but I would just give it a shot anyways. I don't think you'll fail CK a 2nd time, but if you do, any money you invested now into your application would go down the drain.

If ERAS allows you to only submit Step 1 w/o a CK, I wouldn't be surprised if you get no interviews this cycle [for surgery as an IMG, but Canada>other international med schools]. But this is your dream, so perhaps worth a shot.

I appreciate your feedback, and no ERAS doesn't allow it without CK - so I wrote it in my personal statement, and mentioned how I'm retaking it in 3 weeks (2 now) - and I'm going to take a shot at it anyway. Once I get CK back, I'll send some PDs emails, and maybe even go see 1-2 in the programs I'm most interested. Literally beg them. I'm hoping a PD sees my other stuff, and realizes that it was just a fluke in terms of clinical knowledge.

Thanks for your help!

 

[malin]

I appreciate your feedback, and no ERAS doesn't allow it without CK - so I wrote it in my personal statement, and mentioned how I'm retaking it in 3 weeks (2 now) - and I'm going to take a shot at it anyway. Once I get CK back, I'll send some PDs emails, and maybe even go see 1-2 in the programs I'm most interested. Literally beg them. I'm hoping a PD sees my other stuff, and realizes that it was just a fluke in terms of clinical knowledge.

Thanks for your help!

Have you gotten advice from other people as well regarding this? There's a lot of unknown facts for me as I advise you on this so be careful.

If you send a failed CK in ERAS, programs may not even read your personal statement, or your application at all. They have no reason to interview someone who technically isn't ready to start residency on day 1 (or really any reason to read over or store that person's application in their application pool). I don't know when programs send rejections, but if you submit now, they may send the rejections before you even get the score back, which is probably about 5-6 weeks. And even when you find out that you pass CK in 5-6 weeks, I'm not entirely sure how it'll work if you submit your application at that time, and whether you can still get interviews given that it would be late in the cycle (again check with people more knowledgeable about this at your school). So do you submit now and risk immediate rejections b/c of the failed CK? Or wait for the passing CK score and then submit late in the cycle, if you can at all.

But again it's your money and you may very well have a small chance this cycle. Just check with other people you know at your school. If I were in your shoes, I personally would not send my applications today with a failed CK even if I find out I pass it in 5-6 weeks, but again ask program directors or someone more knowledgeable about this whether it's acceptable to send your application now (so that they have it) and then you update the passed CK later. And if it doesn't go well this cycle, you'll want to seriously consider passing Step 3 [for next cycle] to erase any concerns or uncertainties that PDs would have about whether you could pass it during residency.

Good luck and Godspeed.

 

[manali91]

Hello everyone,
I haven't posted much on this website, but have been a silent follower. I am in desperate need for some advice.
I got my result back for CK 2 weeks ago and failed by 2 points, and got a 207. I have been insanely devastated as I took all the NBME with my scores ranging from 230-242. The UWSA was at 228 (2 weeks out). Latest NBME was 242 (3 days before the exam).

I am unsure of what happened, it could be because I did not eat properly during the exam, or just the sheer stress of the exam, or maybe I really didn't know anything...

A little about myself:
I am an Canadian IMG. I have amazing LORS (4+ from surgeons), got honours in each of my clinical clerkship, have passed my graduation exam, have 1 published research, 3 down the pipeline of being published, and lots of extracurricular activities (president at my school for student committee, FMIG member, research committee member). Passed Step 1 with 210, passed Step 2 CS with honors in all 3 sections (both on first attempt). Now, the problem is I am madly in love with surgery. I was hoping to knock this exam out of the park...

I am retaking the exam in 3 weeks time. I have a few questions for anyone who is willing to help.

1) I got the lowest score on my score report for "Health Prevention and Surveillance".. I absolutely overlooked all the risk factors, and such and had numerous risk factor questions. What source can I use to help me with this? I have used uWorld, Kaplan, Step 2 Secrets, MTB 2, MTB3. I'm a bit lost. The questions were all geared towards "modifiable risks" with smoking being the option in each one. I was being an idiot, and selected that for most of the answers (the patient smoked).

2) What is a good source for psych? It was also the lowest.. I don't know what else to do for it? It was insanely difficult. I have used UWorld, Kaplan, MTB 2, MTB3, Step 2 Secret, Step up 2 Medicine.

3) What do I use for biostats? This was also a problem on my exam. I overlooked this (my mistake), and did not pay much attention to it. What do you guys recommend for that.

4) In regards to the ERAS application - should I submit with my transcript? or wait. Or do I mention it in the personal statement that I am retaking it, and hope that someone will overlook my screw up.
I truly hope someone can help me out.
Sorry for the super long message.

Hi I understand that the post is old but I am sailing in the same boat . I am a IMG from India . I got my step 2 ck result back and I failed the exam as well. My Step 1 score is 213 . . I am interested in Pediatrics .I have got 5 months of elective rotation . I am confused whether to continue forward or drop the idea of mle . I am currently in to 2th month of rotation . I I would highly appreciate if you could help .