Need help With My Plan (and chance me)

[Led Zep]

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In my last year of undergrad after a bumpy road. Did 1 year at a community college, transferred to a state university and got it together after a bumpy start.

It looks like I'll be graduating this spring with a 3.35c 3.25s (MD) 3.6c and 3.6s (DO). Last year and this year I have a 4.0 and will continue that through graduation, along with 1 summer class each summer. So the last 70 credits on my transcript = 4.0, I guess that makes it a very strong upward trend with a very difficult course load. Last year and this year I have been the president of the school's pre-med club. Volunteer hours here probably around 400 hours. I am currently doing my third semester of research and will be doing a 4th research project next semester giving me 2 years of research, this will result in a publication. I'm bordering non-trad at this point (turning 25 soon). I have done an internship and have shadowed numerous physicians in different specialties ~250 hours. I have ~90 hours of clinical experience so far (some would say more depending on your view of what constitutes clinical exposure). I have been a mentor in the university's biology program for 2 years, and I am also a tutor for a number of science courses on campus.

I have had very long blue collar work history, and am the first person in my family to even consider higher education much less medical school, I guess it took me a little while to get it right, but I'm not complaining.

This coming summer I'll be taking an EMT-B course and hopefully use that to gain some clinical hours.

I have yet to take the MCAT but I'm ready to put in the time to prep.

SO, I have a number of credits and if I continued to take undergraduate courses in hopes of boosting my MD gpa it would take 1 year to get me to the 3.4+ mark, and it would take 2 years to get me to the 3.5+ mark.

IMO I have a very good shot at osteopathic schools and will definitely apply to them as well but I'd like to try for an MD acceptance.

Here are my questions: (I'm in Pennsylvania if that helps)

Should I do a SMP next year or continue with undergraduate courses in hopes of netting an MD acceptance?

What kind of MCAT score is it going to take to get me into an MD program?

What SMP program should I do (I may have to take this to this to the postbacc thread I know)

I'M OPEN TO ANY AND ALL SUGGESTIONS!!!!

 

[Catalystik]

Should I do a SMP next year or continue with undergraduate courses in hopes of netting an MD acceptance?

What kind of MCAT score is it going to take to get me into an MD program?

What SMP program should I do (I may have to take this to this to the postbacc thread I know)

A 3.35 and an MCAT score of 35 give you ~50% chance of an MD acceptance. A 38 gives you a 60% chance.

A surer path if you're not a good test taker or are in a hurry would be to get a 30+ MCAT and do a 1-year SMP, which overrides the low GPAs.

If you're not in a hurry, a 3.5+ and an MCAT score of 35 gives you a ~65% chance of an acceptance.

 

[Led Zep]

A 3.35 and an MCAT score of 35 give you ~50% chance of an MD acceptance. A 38 gives you a 60% chance.

A surer path if you're not a good test taker or are in a hurry would be to get a 30+ MCAT and do a 1-year SMP, which overrides the low GPAs.

If you're not in a hurry, a 3.5+ and an MCAT score of 35 gives you a ~65% chance of an acceptance.

Thanks for the input, if you don't mind, what do you think are my strong points?

 

[Catalystik]

what do you think are my strong points?

1) last 70 credits on transcript = 4.0; a very strong upward trend with a very difficult course load.
2) Last year and this year president of the school's pre-med club. Volunteer hours here probably around 400 hours.
3) 2 years of research, this will result in a publication.
4) (turning 25 soon).
5) shadowed numerous physicians in different specialties ~250 hours.
6) mentor in the university's biology program for 2 years, and also a tutor for a number of science courses on campus.

 

[Led Zep]

A 3.35 and an MCAT score of 35 give you ~50% chance of an MD acceptance. A 38 gives you a 60% chance.

A surer path if you're not a good test taker or are in a hurry would be to get a 30+ MCAT and do a 1-year SMP, which overrides the low GPAs.

If you're not in a hurry, a 3.5+ and an MCAT score of 35 gives you a ~65% chance of an acceptance.

Time not being a factor.... which one would you rate as being the best route assuming I can excel in each path....

Assuming I do an SMP would doing said SMP at a school like PCOM hurt my chances at say Temple or Drexel, or should I favor Drexel's SMP for MD. That being said would Drexel's SMP hurt my chances at PCOM? I will gladly direct this towards the post bacc forum if you wish, But your input is so very helpful as I see from so many other posts and I would really like your opinion. Many thanks for your time

 

[Catalystik]

1) Time not being a factor.... which one would you rate as being the best route assuming I can excel in each path....

2) Assuming I do an SMP would doing said SMP at a school like PCOM hurt my chances at say Temple or Drexel, or should I favor Drexel's SMP for MD. That being said would Drexel's SMP hurt my chances at PCOM? I will gladly direct this towards the post bacc forum if you wish, But your input is so very helpful as I see from so many other posts and I would really like your opinion.

1) The answer also depends on your test taking skills, too. And, is money an issue? Have you calculated the relative likely cost of each pathway?

2) Not my area of expertise, however, I do know that students have been accepted to MD programs from DO school's SMPs, but I do not know how common this is (and is well worth asking again in the Postbac Programs Forum). It is however very common to be accepted to a DO med school from an MD school's SMP.

 

[Led Zep]

1) The answer also depends on your test taking skills, too. And, is money an issue? Have you calculated the relative likely cost of each pathway?

2) Not my area of expertise, however, I do know that students have been accepted to MD programs from DO school's SMPs, but I do not know how common this is (and is well worth asking again in the Postbac Programs Forum). It is however very common to be accepted to a DO med school from an MD school's SMP.

1) The relative cost of each pathway is the approximately so I can manage each. My student debt is lower than many I know so I can manage either path if I choose so. The two years of tuition + COL would be about the same for 1 year SMP + COL. I could save money by taking community college classes and living at home though if I so choose, but I'm not fond of that option.

2) I'll consult the post-bac forum for more some more comparative information.

Thanks Again!!!

 

[Led Zep]

1) The answer also depends on your test taking skills, too. And, is money an issue? Have you calculated the relative likely cost of each pathway?

2) Not my area of expertise, however, I do know that students have been accepted to MD programs from DO school's SMPs, but I do not know how common this is (and is well worth asking again in the Postbac Programs Forum). It is however very common to be accepted to a DO med school from an MD school's SMP.

I think I have excellent test taking skills, I feel comfortable with getting to the logical aspect of question "what is really being asked"

Also which pathway, in your opinion, would be viewed more favorably by adcoms.

 

[Catalystik]

Either pathway is equally valid and can provide a path to success with a good MCAT score. Which path might be preferred will vary by adcomm. The point is that you prove yourself academically capable of performing creditably in the science-intense environment of a med school.

You might look at the SMP is the riskier route, as it's an expensive, high-pressure, nonguaranteed path that can destroy all future chance at med school if you don't do extremely well in a preset curriculum. With an informal postbac, you can choose your own coursework and schedule and take classes at a more comfortable pace, and even continue to work if economically necessary. With a particularly strong MCAT score, you might even be able to reasonably apply after a year of classes, considering how well you have already done recently.

 

[Led Zep]

Either pathway is equally valid and can provide a path to success with a good MCAT score. Which path might be preferred will vary by adcomm. The point is that you prove yourself academically capable of performing creditably in the science-intense environment of a med school.

You might look at the SMP is the riskier route, as it's an expensive, high-pressure, nonguaranteed path that can destroy all future chance at med school if you don't do extremely well in a preset curriculum. With an informal postbac, you can choose your own coursework and schedule and take classes at a more comfortable pace, and even continue to work if economically necessary. With a particularly strong MCAT score, you might even be able to reasonably apply after a year of classes, considering how well you have already done recently.

The risk of the SMP is certainly not something to take lightly but, I know I'm looking at 18 credits to a 3.4 and and 2 years full time to a 3.5+(thanks to the amount of credits I've accumulated). I just feel like there is no middle ground between 3.4 and 3.5, almost like a 3.45 wouldn't mean anything.... until it crests that 3.5 mark, am I unjustified in this viewpoint or will the continuation of satisfactory work weigh more. Honestly, I know I'm going to get there but I want to plan for success, I've made enough mistakes to make sure that I triple check everything. I just want to make sure I make the right choice here....

 

[Catalystik]

I share your perception that a 3.5 is a very good mark to hit. If you are indeed a great test taker, a strong score will catch the attention of most adcomms, even if you have a 3.4. Schools vary in how they determine cut offs: Some use the raw numbers and some have a formulaic approach that combines them in various ways, even giving lesser or greater weights to first year grades or last two years of coursework. If there are particular schools you'd like to aim for, you might consider calling or reviewing the school specific forums in Pre-Med Allo for hints about what those schools prefer to see.

All this angst will be pointless if your best effort on the MCAT results in a 30, as then it will be clearer that an SMP is your best bet for an MD acceptance. Why not take a timed practice test and see where you fall? There is a free one available at: http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/practicetests.htm

 

[Led Zep]

I share your perception that a 3.5 is a very good mark to hit. If you are indeed a great test taker, a strong score will catch the attention of most adcomms, even if you have a 3.4. Schools vary in how they determine cut offs: Some use the raw numbers and some have a formulaic approach that combines them in various ways, even giving lesser or greater weights to first year grades or last two years of coursework. If there are particular schools you'd like to aim for, you might consider calling or reviewing the school specific forums in Pre-Med Allo for hints about what those schools prefer to see.

All this angst will be pointless if your best effort on the MCAT results in a 30, as then it will be clearer that an SMP is your best bet for an MD acceptance. Why not take a timed practice test and see where you fall? There is a free one available at: http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/practicetests.htm

Understood, if I can't get a >30 on the MCAT an SMP will be my best bet in proving myself?

Thanks again for all the help, it's nice to have someone with knowledge who is ready to give it out.

 

[Catalystik]

If you can't get at least a 30, you'll have more trouble finding an MD-affiliated SMP that will take you.

 

[Led Zep]

If you can't get at least a 30, you'll have more trouble finding an MD-affiliated SMP that will take you.

I set aside time and took the practice MCAT from above, I didn't study or prep I just sat down and did it PS 10 BS 11 VR 12

So with a 33, what are you thoughts, would I have a shot at say a school like Drexel or Temple (pretty sure Jeff is out my range, I'm trying to stay in PA but I'll go where I have to), or would I definitely need the SMP to get an MD acceptance?

Thx Again!!

 

[Catalystik]

With a 3.4/33, Temple and Drexel would theoretically consider you, with a ~42% chance of a successful outcome. Are those odds good enough for you?

 

[Led Zep]

With a 3.4/33, Temple and Drexel would theoretically consider you, with a ~42% chance of a successful outcome. Are those odds good enough for you?

No, they are not, I'll apply to SMP programs this year, and I'll apply to med school at the start of the next cycle without being too optimistic, and if unsuccessful I'll apply again once I finish the SMP...

Any thoughts? Does this sound pretty reasonable?

 

[Catalystik]

This is a good plan. Be sure to send an official SMP transcript to each school after the fall term is done. This often results in a spate of interview offers, provided you did very well, of course.

 

[Led Zep]

This is a good plan. Be sure to send an official SMP transcript to each school after the fall term is done. This often results in a spate of interview offers, provided you did very well, of course.

My fall term consists of comparative anatomy of vertebrates, histology, and biochemistry all with a lab element, all upper level. Beyond that I'm doing research in biochemistry (for credit although I don't need to) examining apoptosis inhibitors and activators as well. Lastly I have an Anthropology class examining middle eastern cultures. I currently have A's in all of them...

I take it I should submit my applications now for the SMP's, but I won't be able to take my official MCAT and submit scores until Jan or Feb. Is this ok?

 

[Catalystik]

I take it I should submit my applications now for the SMP's, but I won't be able to take my official MCAT and submit scores until Jan or Feb. Is this ok?

Optimal times vary by school. Some don't accept applications until spring, I believe. While waiting until a score is in hand before taking the leap (I have no idea what the application fees are like), with your having had a 33 practice score, I might be impelled to recklessly say, "Go for it." Nah! Why not do some thorough research first. Find out opening and closing dates for application, fees, prerequisites (some require coapplication with med schools; some require you to have failed a cycle), first date of class (to avoid conflicts), % successful applicants (not always cited), etc. Then decide.

 

[Led Zep]

Optimal times vary by school. Some don't accept applications until spring, I believe. While waiting until a score is in hand before taking the leap (I have no idea what the application fees are like), with your having had a 33 practice score, I might be impelled to recklessly say, "Go for it." Nah! Why not do some thorough research first. Find out opening and closing dates for application, fees, prerequisites (some require coapplication with med schools; some require you to have failed a cycle), first date of class (to avoid conflicts), % successful applicants (not always cited), etc. Then decide.

This site is like beacon in a dark world of how to get in to medical school. Thanks for holding the beacon!!!

 

[Catalystik]

🙂

 

[Led Zep]

Another question? Just how compensatory is the 4.0 in my last 70 credit hours?
Does it really help negate the lower overall GPA?

 

[Catalystik]

Each school has their own formula, so it's not possible to quantitate the value. Based on the evidence of seeing past applicants like yourself get accepted, we know that some schools give more weight to the last two years, others give less to the first year, and still others let it have an impact only with a high MCAT score or with nontraditional age. And of course there are some with hard cutoffs, regardless of explanation. Since we mostly don't know which is which, except anecdotally (well, some do let you know, but you'll have to ferret those out for yourself), "applying broadly" is a mandate.