Need help with undergrad plan

[Az1698]

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Hey, I was mulling over a plan for undergrad, and I wonder what you guys think of it.

Year 1:
Hon. Bio 1 + Lab
Hon. Bio 2 + Lab
Chem 1 + Lab
Chem 2 + Lab
Other classes
year long research

Summer : Any recommended classes?
Summer research program

Year 2:
Microbio + Lab
microbio 2 + lab
orgo 1 + lab
orgo 2 + lab
other classes
year long research

summer: MCAT <-- Is this a good idea? has anyone done it at this time?
Summer research program

 

[MilkmanAl]

The year plans are pretty standard. I wouldn't take the MCAT until after your third year, regardless of when you finish the pre-reqs. Don't bother with summer classes unless you're trying to graduate early for whatever reason (which I don't suggest) or can't fit them in later.

 

[afugazzi]

It would only make sense to take the MCAT then if you are really confident in your physics skills. (I think that the traditional pre-med schedule has physics in the third year precisely so you can learn the material right before you take the MCAT). If for some reason you think you are already really good at physics, then it might make sense.

 

[dw2158]

i agree that your plan looks pretty standard.

but it's heavy on the research! IMO, you don't need to be doing "year-long research" your freshman year. do some clinical volunteering or (gasp!) ECs unrelated to medicine! also, keep an open mind... if you discover other things you're interested in, taking the pre-reqs in a more spread out fashion and taking a year or two off before med school is an excellent idea 🙂

oh and also... don't take the MCAT without taking physics first.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Have you already locked up research for freshman year? It can be hard for freshman to find PI's willing to work with them considering most freshman have little to no college level biology courses completed.

 

[vickpick]

year long research as a freshman?... wow that's amazing...

Will u be doing stuff like cleaning utensils and stuff? because I'm pretty sure you won't have a lot of knowledge on the research topic w/ no college biology experience..

I'm gonna start research this fall, but I'll have my seperate project. A friend of mine who started as a freshman cleaning utensils is still gonna continue to do the same.. since the PI reckoned he is really good at doing that, lol... just a little something to think abt.. If u start at a lowly, u might get stuck there.. but if u start at full blown research, u can't go lower... and u might as well get Pubs.

 

[mich]

Hey, I was mulling over a plan for undergrad, and I wonder what you guys think of it.

Year 1:
Hon. Bio 1 + Lab
Hon. Bio 2 + Lab
Chem 1 + Lab
Chem 2 + Lab
Other classes
year long research

Summer : Any recommended classes?
Summer research program

Year 2:
Microbio + Lab
microbio 2 + lab
orgo 1 + lab
orgo 2 + lab
other classes
year long research

summer: MCAT <-- Is this a good idea? has anyone done it at this time?
Summer research program

Are you planning on doing a MD/PHD program?

Your plan seems feasible with the exception of a year of physics. i have a plan as well but this is only three subs per semester. i want to apply as much time as possible to the major subjects especially chemistry. if you think that you will have ample time (in my mind ample means 3mths) to study for MCAT then you should give it your best shot! . Good Luck! 🙂

 

[Az1698]

Would it be doable to Physics into the 2nd year?

Yes, I have locked up a research position. In high school, I did research, netting three publications so that helped me find my spot. MD/PHD is something I am considering.

I was thinking of doing the EK and AO mcat classes starting in january, and then taking the mcat so I can have one less worry. I am also applying to some early assurance programs, so maybe the mcat might not be important at all.

 

[sylvanthus]

You could always move micro to third year and take physics second year. I wouldn't suggest taking an MCAT course unless you really need someone to motivate you to study for the MCAT. It is a huge waste of 1800 bucks imo.

Also, lastly, I wouldn't suggest taking honors classes. I do not think it makes much of a difference and could potentially cause you to get a lower grade. An honors B is not going to look better than a regular A.

Ahh blast one more thing, get some clinical experience and cut back on the research. Like someone said, research freshman year consists of washing beakers mostly. You could take an EMT course over the summer and get a leg-up on a lot of people that way.

Wow, sorry for the choppy post.

 

[tiedyeddog]

You could always move micro to third year and take physics second year. I wouldn't suggest taking an MCAT course unless you really need someone to motivate you to study for the MCAT. It is a huge waste of 1800 bucks imo.

Also, lastly, I wouldn't suggest taking honors classes. I do not think it makes much of a difference and could potentially cause you to get a lower grade. An honors B is not going to look better than a regular A.

+1 on both counts, don't take a class unless you can't create a schedule and stick to it.

Also, med schools don't care if you did honors or not.

 

[sylvanthus]

Two more things....If you can take some kind of human physiology course and/or biochem before taking the MCAT it will help you. Also, find an EC that is something you enjoy and is different than the normal "volunteering in the ER." Something along the lines of volunteering in a homeless shelter or big brothers/big sisters come to mind. If you have to cut out more research to fit this in and be more balanced I suggest doing it unless you are applying to MD/PHD programs.

Can ya tell I think research is largely useless if done too much? Hehe, so I am biased, take it for what it's worth.

 

[Az1698]

Here is an updated plan for my first two years - Please comment and add as you see fit.


Year 1:
1st sem-
Hon. Bio 1 + Lab
Chem 1 + Lab
Other college Core

2nd sem-
Hon. Bio 2 + Lab
Chem 2 + Lab
Other college Core

EC's-
year long research
Tutoring high schoolers
Hospital volunteering + shadowing
EMT cert Class (spring '10)

Summer : Any recommended classes?
Summer research program - HHMI or SURF @ sloan kettering

Year 2:
Sem 1 -
Physics + Lab
orgo 1 + lab
Human Phys
Other College Core

Sem 2 -
orgo 2 + lab
Biochem
Physics 2 + lab
other classes

EC's
year long research
Hospital Volunteering and shadowing
College Clubs
EMT

summer: MCAT <-- Is this a good idea? has anyone done it at this time?
Summer research program - Hopefully Amgen

I am very interested in research, so thats why I am pursuing it to such an extent. As for the honors class part, the honors college provides me certain extra benfits, which I why I am taking Honors. Not for med school. Anyone have suggestions of other classes that are helpful and are "unoffical reqs" of med schools? Any other advice about taking the MCAT sophomore summer? Thanks!

 

[261766]

did i miss something, but why the huge hurry to take mcats after 2nd year? you wanna finish undergrad in three years? and can you take biochem while taking orgo? other than that looks ambitious, but fine.

 

[MilkmanAl]

If you're so interested in research, why are you trending towards medicine? Wouldn't a Ph.D. suit your interests better? I guess that's something you can figure out later.

 

[loveoforganic]

I personally got through all the mcat prereqs upon finishing sophomore year (this past year) and am studying for it right now. What's wrong with it milkman?

 

[unitofpain]

hey im a rising freshman and i think your schedule looks great, just wondering isn't it better to take orgo freshman year though?

 

[Az1698]

If you're so interested in research, why are you trending towards medicine? Wouldn't a Ph.D. suit your interests better? I guess that's something you can figure out later.

Because being a doctor is what I want - I want to help people while conducting research to find more efficient ways to improve lives.

hey im a rising freshman and i think your schedule looks great, just wondering isn't it better to take orgo freshman year though?

I need to have taken chem 1 + 2 to be allowed to take orgo, hence second year.

as for the rush, I want to be done with my MCATS not bc I am graduating early but just so it is out of the way. Is there anyone who has taken it in their 2nd year?

Can anyone offer any class suggestions or EC's I should try/programs I should look into? Is having a job advised?

 

[tiedyeddog]

hey im a rising freshman and i think your schedule looks great, just wondering isn't it better to take orgo freshman year though?

You can't take organic before general chemistry at most U.S. schools.

 

[argonaute]

Because being a doctor is what I want - I want to help people while conducting research to find more efficient ways to improve lives.



I need to have taken chem 1 + 2 to be allowed to take orgo, hence second year.

as for the rush, I want to be done with my MCATS not bc I am graduating early but just so it is out of the way. Is there anyone who has taken it in their 2nd year?

Can anyone offer any class suggestions or EC's I should try/programs I should look into? Is having a job advised?

first of all OP, i have to congratulate you. You're WAY on top of things, and if you can manage your classes, I would say you're almost guaranteed a medical school acceptance (damn man, 3 pubs in high school?....very impressive. guessing you did intel/siemens and/or going to top 10 undergrad??)


your update schedule looks very good. is english going to be included in your college core classes? a year of english is typically required for most schools.

as for the MCAT, I actually was thinking about doing it earlier too, because I finished most of my premed requirements (gen chem+ ochem 1, physics 1+2, year of math) in my freshman year, and also would rather take it early to get it out of the way. however, I felt hesitant to take it after my 2nd year since it doesn't feel like enough time to prepare for it, so I'm planning to take it at the beginning of junior year, when I have summer to study for it.

IMO, since i'm guessing you're very strong at science, you probably could take it at the end of 2nd year. Just be aware that you will need to prepare for it, and adjust your 2nd year 2nd semester schedule accordingly.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I personally got through all the mcat prereqs upon finishing sophomore year (this past year) and am studying for it right now. What's wrong with it milkman?

I mean, there's nothing technically wrong with it, but your later classes will force you to manipulate what you learned in the pre-reqs. That is, you'll sort of be studying for the MCAT as you take biochem or whatever science classes you take beyond the basics. It'll be easier to master that material if you've had to apply it for awhile. If you're not a science major, go ahead and get it out of the way.

Because being a doctor is what I want - I want to help people while conducting research to find more efficient ways to improve lives.

You can do that with a Ph.D. Just sayin'.

 

[dr seuss]

I wish I had done the honors college at my school. I probably would have had better LORs from science teachers, my class size would have been 15 instead of 250. Research and an honors thesis is also required. Instead of cleaning dishes in someone's lab, you can do your own research.

 

[Az1698]

first of all OP, i have to congratulate you. You're WAY on top of things, and if you can manage your classes, I would say you're almost guaranteed a medical school acceptance


your update schedule looks very good. is english going to be included in your college core classes? a year of english is typically required for most schools.

as for the MCAT, I actually was thinking about doing it earlier too, because I finished most of my premed requirements (gen chem+ ochem 1, physics 1+2, year of math) in my freshman year, and also would rather take it early to get it out of the way. however, I felt hesitant to take it after my 2nd year since it doesn't feel like enough time to prepare for it, so I'm planning to take it at the beginning of junior year, when I have summer to study for it.

IMO, since i'm guessing you're very strong at science, you probably could take it at the end of 2nd year. Just be aware that you will need to prepare for it, and adjust your 2nd year 2nd semester schedule accordingly.

How shoudl I adjust my schedule? In my first year, I will fulfill the calc and english reqs. Are there any classes that med schools look for?

 

[Stixman28]

I don't think anyone has said this yet-

In response to why most ppl don't take the MCAT after sophomore year: the results are only good for 3 years. If you take it after soph year, and then don't get in to med school on your first try, or, (god forbid) decide to take a year off...depending on your timing, you might have to take it again, which would just really suck.

 

[loveoforganic]

I was told by my advisor that, taking the MCAT just prior to junior year, it would be valid for two application cycles, assuming your first application cycle will be following junior year. So you'd get two shots still.

 

[FuturaDocta]

I was told by my advisor that, taking the MCAT just prior to junior year, it would be valid for two application cycles, assuming your first application cycle will be following junior year. So you'd get two shots still.

Plus, you have time to retake it before you graduate (assuming you want to go to medical school right away).

Anyway, you have a great plan. But, it is really heavy on the sciences. Do you think you are really ready for that? You wouldn't want to end up with a sucky GPA if it is too rigorous. Then again, on the up side, you would be exposing yourself to a lot of necessary knowledge for the MCAT and preparing for medical school (not as rigorous, but I guess it depends on your undergrad school).

Lastly, since you are still young (as am I). I would still explore the research as you may end up wanting to pursue graduate work instead of medical school. You never know what you will truly end up wanted to do for the rest of your life. I think this is a great time to explore as much as you can. Take advantage of college.

 

[scattun]

I have a friend who I believe took the MCAT after our freshman year, so it is definitely possible to take it earlier than everyone else. The main concern is that many schools will consider your score to "expire," so if you decide that maybe you want a year off to do whatever or you don't get accepted first time around, you may have to take it again. Incidentally, my friend got a 36, so early high scores are definite possibilities too.

 

[Az1698]

Plus, you have time to retake it before you graduate (assuming you want to go to medical school right away).

Anyway, you have a great plan. But, it is really heavy on the sciences. Do you think you are really ready for that? You wouldn't want to end up with a sucky GPA if it is too rigorous. Then again, on the up side, you would be exposing yourself to a lot of necessary knowledge for the MCAT and preparing for medical school (not as rigorous, but I guess it depends on your undergrad school).

Yea, thats why I want to be science heavy

 

[MilkmanAl]

Just for the record, the pre-med curriculum is particularly terrible for preparing you for med school. It desperately needs to be reorganized. The pre-reqs do prepare you for the MCAT, though.That's a plus, I guess.

 

[FuturaDocta]

Yea, thats why I want to be science heavy

I actually did the exact same thing. But, I just want to warn you that your GPA could potentially be screwed for the year (depends on your university, mine is very hard on science). Anyway, just keep that it in mind and be cautious. Good luck. 🙂

 

[loveoforganic]

Plus, you have time to retake it before you graduate (assuming you want to go to medical school right away).

Anyway, you have a great plan. But, it is really heavy on the sciences. Do you think you are really ready for that? You wouldn't want to end up with a sucky GPA if it is too rigorous. Then again, on the up side, you would be exposing yourself to a lot of necessary knowledge for the MCAT and preparing for medical school (not as rigorous, but I guess it depends on your undergrad school).

Lastly, since you are still young (as am I). I would still explore the research as you may end up wanting to pursue graduate work instead of medical school. You never know what you will truly end up wanted to do for the rest of your life. I think this is a great time to explore as much as you can. Take advantage of college.

First semester and second semester were indeed pretty crappy (2.85 and 3.3 respectively), but that was mostly due to either 1) lack of effort, 2) lack of motivation, and/or 3) poor study habits. Sophomore year, after becoming motivated and learning the right way to study, I ended up with 7 A+'s and the rest A's. I've already started research 😛

So yeah, at any rate, I guess I'd advise having a lighter freshman year, unless you feel you're just ready to jump into college work and not go party on weekdays til god knows when in the morning.

 

[wannabadr10]

I'm not trying to sound negative when I say this but...have u ever done research? It not like one of those things that u just walk in and start doing. To be good at it and actually contribute outside of cleaning beakers takes a lot of outside knowledge. This means that freshmen year research would be pretty useless unless u have a very solid background. Instead of a year of research, why don't u just have a good time and party? There are many years in the future to do research but there is only one freshmen year of college. Enjoy yourself ur first year and good luck!!!

 

[Bacchus]

You should contact a professional or academic advisor. They're best suited to help you.

 

[Az1698]

I'm not trying to sound negative when I say this but...have u ever done research? It not like one of those things that u just walk in and start doing. To be good at it and actually contribute outside of cleaning beakers takes a lot of outside knowledge. This means that freshmen year research would be pretty useless unless u have a very solid background. Instead of a year of research, why don't u just have a good time and party? There are many years in the future to do research but there is only one freshmen year of college. Enjoy yourself ur first year and good luck!!!

I have 3 publications in respectable journals, and have presented at a few poster competitions.

 

[loveoforganic]

Out of curiousity, how did you manage that in high school?

 

[argonaute]

How shoudl I adjust my schedule? In my first year, I will fulfill the calc and english reqs. Are there any classes that med schools look for?

I think your schedule is great if you think you can handle it.

med schools do look for several other classes, but realize that these classes don't have to be fulfilled ASAP.

the main requirements are chemistry, biology, physics, math, and english- and you've addressed these. Other requirements or recommended at some schools are biochemistry (which i htink you've addressed), extra humanities and social science courses (just taking one social science or humanities class a semester should be good enough to fulfill this for all university. I think USC keck has he heaviest requirement for humanities/social sciences i've seen: 30 semester units (inc. english)), statistics for some schools, and a various smattering of upper division biology classes, the common ones i've seen being molecular/cell biology, genetics, microbiology, and embryology.

If you're biology oriented like me (and it sounds like you are VERY science/biology oriented), you should have no problem fulfilling the recommended biology classes with your upper division biology courses for the major.

what's most important is not really classes you take beyond the general premed requirements, but doing well in those classes.

After that what's next most important doing good ECs. Research is great EC- especially since you're good at it and have extensive experience in it. However, you also have to make sure to spend some time doing clinical activities (such as shadowing or getting a health-related job such as an EMT) as well as volunteering (both clinical and non-clinical). These are de facto premed requirements too. It sounds like you already know this.

You aren't trying to graduate early and go to med school early are you? I really don't want to have to compete with you when I apply 😀. Can't see how adcoms would find anyone adequate for their school once they see what's on your resume.

 

[Az1698]

Out of curiousity, how did you manage that in high school?

I was a very hard worker and involved tremendously at the hospital - I volunteered for around 600 hours, shadowed for around 200, alll of which helped me make connections into research with doctors.

I think your schedule is great if you think you can handle it.

med schools do look for several other classes, but realize that these classes don't have to be fulfilled ASAP.

the main requirements are chemistry, biology, physics, math, and english- and you've addressed these. Other requirements or recommended at some schools are biochemistry (which i htink you've addressed), extra humanities and social science courses (just taking one social science or humanities class a semester should be good enough to fulfill this for all university. I think USC keck has he heaviest requirement for humanities/social sciences i've seen: 30 semester units (inc. english)), statistics for some schools, and a various smattering of upper division biology classes, the common ones i've seen being molecular/cell biology, genetics, microbiology, and embryology.

If you're biology oriented like me (and it sounds like you are VERY science/biology oriented), you should have no problem fulfilling the recommended biology classes with your upper division biology courses for the major.

what's most important is not really classes you take beyond the general premed requirements, but doing well in those classes.

After that what's next most important doing good ECs. Research is great EC- especially since you're good at it and have extensive experience in it. However, you also have to make sure to spend some time doing clinical activities (such as shadowing or getting a health-related job such as an EMT) as well as volunteering (both clinical and non-clinical). These are de facto premed requirements too. It sounds like you already know this.

You aren't trying to graduate early and go to med school early are you? I really don't want to have to compete with you when I apply 😀. Can't see how adcoms would find anyone adequate for their school once they see what's on your resume.

Hehe, thanks. I am going to work on my 3rd and 4th year schedule and post that here too. The reason I don't want to apply early is because I have pretty lofty goals - Winning the goldwater - and such. So I want to take my dear old time

 

[Spiker]

Have you already locked up research for freshman year? It can be hard for freshman to find PI's willing to work with them considering most freshman have little to no college level biology courses completed.

Most professor would only take freshman and sophomore in my school if you go any later they wont take you because you wont have time to catch up and actually do stuff. You dont need college course work to do research. You just need to read the specific section in the text book that your PI is doing the research. For example, my PI does hormone remodeling of nerves. Just read the hormone section (which does not help that much) and the nervous system section (does not help much either) then you just have to read a crap load of original research. So... yea classes doesnt help much at all.

 

[FuturaDocta]

Most professor would only take freshman and sophomore in my school if you go any later they wont take you because you wont have time to catch up and actually do stuff. You dont need college course work to do research. You just need to read the specific section in the text book that your PI is doing the research. For example, my PI does hormone remodeling of nerves. Just read the hormone section (which does not help that much) and the nervous system section (does not help much either) then you just have to read a crap load of original research. So... yea classes doesnt help much at all.

That's funny. My professors look at seniority because they want everyone to have a chance at research. Not saying that it would be bad, but seems like you seniors are missing out on something exciting. I can see the rational behind it though, it would be easier to just train once versus over and over again for all these different people.

 

[Az1698]

Hmm, I had a question: As an ec, I was thinking about being a manager to my schools bb program as well as a volunteer in the sports med room. Would they add anything significant or not? I don't care about the singificance, I am doing it no matter what, but I was thinking would it help? Because I would be listed as a full flegded member of the BB team, so would that help me stand out for med and summer programs?

 

[FuturaDocta]

Hmm, I had a question: As an ec, I was thinking about being a manager to my schools bb program as well as a volunteer in the sports med room. Would they add anything significant or not? I don't care about the singificance, I am doing it no matter what, but I was thinking would it help? Because I would be listed as a full flegded member of the BB team, so would that help me stand out for med and summer programs?

Sounds like fun to me... I did that sort of stuff as a high school student and always thought it was fun.

It wouldn't help you stand out per se. But, it would show that you don't limit yourself to just doing things in medicine. I guess you can say your not tunnel brained and are a real student with other interests.

The sports med room thing sound pretty cool. You can just add that as volunteer experience. A lot of these experiences should be interesting to you.

You basically want your resume to show that you care about people and that you love to help others. Be a servant to the people in other words 🙂

 

[Spiker]

That's funny. My professors look at seniority because they want everyone to have a chance at research. Not saying that it would be bad, but seems like you seniors are missing out on something exciting. I can see the rational behind it though, it would be easier to just train once versus over and over again for all these different people.

Well there is always positions available to those who have the interest most people dont do research, and in our school we tell them that if you want to research look early. so if they wait until senior year to do it, it is their fault

 

[Az1698]

Sounds like fun to me... I did that sort of stuff as a high school student and always thought it was fun.

It wouldn't help you stand out per se. But, it would show that you don't limit yourself to just doing things in medicine. I guess you can say your not tunnel brained and are a real student with other interests.

The sports med room thing sound pretty cool. You can just add that as volunteer experience. A lot of these experiences should be interesting to you.

You basically want your resume to show that you care about people and that you love to help others. Be a servant to the people in other words 🙂

=)

Any other advice?

 

[Az1698]

Ok, got my final schedule today.


Honors chem
Honors Bio
NYC history class
Calc with focus on Bio

The calc class is really hard, should I drop it and add a different class? if so, which one?

 

[Ponger]

No offense but it sounds like you're building a very bland college experience. Like, really really boring. I'm not going to be presumptious and say that you can't stick to 4 year plan that you've mapped out before even taking a single course, but 99% of people don't.

 

[MN premed]

hey im a rising freshman and i think your schedule looks great, just wondering isn't it better to take orgo freshman year though?

Just thought I'd ask, does your school really allow people to take o chem before gen chem? Or do you have AP credit that gets you in? Because I think a lot of med schools don't allow AP credit for chemistry, but I could be wrong. I had to look that up because I'm using AP credit for some of my biology requirements and calc. On the other hand...if you are able to take o chem before gen chem, your school must have a pretty easy o chem class, I can't imagine being allowed to take the one at my school without gen chem as a prereq!