need help

[lakeshow]

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Just wondering if anyone knows an answer to this? I finished my undergrad in 1996 (BS in biology) and met all prereqs to medical school. GPA is low (3.1). Should I retake some of the science classes? I heard from someone that if classes were taken more than 7 years ago, they need to be repeated. Is this true? Assuming that I will do well on the MCAT in april, 2007(not planning to apply until next year), let's say 30+, what are my chances of getting in med schools , for both DO and MD? I forgot to mention that I am 32 years old and also a practicing pharmacist. I am currently shadowing both a DO and an MD in a non-profit clinic. Thanks in advance for any advice, suggestion.

 

[cabinbuilder]

If you have a Pharm D. degree they schools may take that in lieu of the ususal undergrad coursework. Your best bet is to ask the schools you want to apply to what their take is on your situation. However, I would think you will have to repeat the pre-req's if they are that old. Sorry. It's worth a shot though to ask first before spending time you may not have to.

 

[cfdavid]

That's a tough question. The way they tally your GPA (Total and sciences) is based upon those pre-reqs. So, the fact that you did not do stellar (though not bad), may hurt your chances.

You should contact specific schools in which you intend to apply, and if possible, sit down personally with a counselor (at the med school, not some pre-med counselor) and find out what they'd recommend for you to be most successful in your application process.

I took the MCAT without re-taking any of the pre-req's (10-12 yrs old), but I did take a bunch of mid-to-upper level science courses to develop a recent academic track record. This worked for me because my med school pre-req grades were very good. So, I did not need to worry about how they would impact any tallying of GPA's etc.

Perhaps your state med school has an official, pre-med oriented post-bacc program? You could look into this as well.

But, set up some appointments with those advisors at "local" med schools (within driving distance/tolerance).
Good luck!

 

[remo]

You can retake them if you want to but you really don't have to unless you got less than a C in any of them. With a 3.1 undergrad gpa you will need some recent coursework to prove you can take tests and get A's (probably 5-10 classes if possible). This is best achieved by taking upper level bio classes. Retaking the prereqs will help with the MCAT. Trying to relearn chemistry and physics from review books is much easier said than done - especially if you want to get into the 30+ range on the MCAT.

 

[Sporky]

Just wondering if anyone knows an answer to this? I finished my undergrad in 1996 (BS in biology) and met all prereqs to medical school. GPA is low (3.1). Should I retake some of the science classes? I heard from someone that if classes were taken more than 7 years ago, they need to be repeated. Is this true? Assuming that I will do well on the MCAT in april, 2007(not planning to apply until next year), let's say 30+, what are my chances of getting in med schools , for both DO and MD? I forgot to mention that I am 32 years old and also a practicing pharmacist. I am currently shadowing both a DO and an MD in a non-profit clinic. Thanks in advance for any advice, suggestion.

Here's some food for thought:

"Many different variables have been used in an attempt to predict performance in medical school, residency, and practice. The extensive literature on this subject has been reviewed and evaluated. Admission to medical school should not be based solely on grade point average and Medical College Admission Test scores because these offer no measure of extremely important noncognitive attributes. Although performance in the preclinical years is predicted by the grade point average and Medical College Admission Test scores, no such correlation exists for achievements in the clinical years, for postgraduate training, or as physicians" - Clinical Orthopaedics & Related Research. (362):72-77, May 1999.
Reede, Joan Y. MD, MPH, MS

Dr. Reede's study has been reiterated hundreds of times - all with the same conclusion: there is no way to predict success in medicine by using grades and MCAT scores. This is backed up by my own personal, highly speculative, research where I found that:

1. My advisor who is a highly successful electrophysiologist and Mayo Clinic Alum, entered Med school with a 2.7 gpa and a 25 on the MCAT.

2. Several of my wife's clients are married to doctors, one of whom:
Has a highly successful opthamology practice, also providing emergency eye surgery and care. This doctor had a 2.66 Gpa and a 24 on the MCAT.

Conversely, At my last MCAT practice exam at Princeton Review, super-wienie, the wonder chemist proudly displayed his "40" score that he received, but was "surprisingly" rejected by all of the med schools he applied to. Oh, and he humbly reminded us that he only had a 3.97 Gpa in Chemistry. He'll be a doctor when 93 year old grandmother beats me in the weight room.

Also, a very nice, and way-too-smart, co-student at U of H has a 3.98 in Biochem and got a 39 on the MCAT and she can't get into med school either. Why? She isn't a wienie, but she has never done anything except absorb facts from a book.

So, summing all of this up, we come to the conclusion that a). nobody has a magic formula, b). being brilliant is cool, but not necessarily helpful, c). medicine apparently needs well-rounded (not fat) women and men who want to serve humanity and aren't just trying to say, "I'm a doctor", which is rapidly losing its prestige anyway.

Medicine is one of the three classic disciplines of man, the other two being theology and law. If you want to be a doctor, then you should be a doctor. It's rather obvious (since you are already a pharmacist) that you wouldn't be doing it for the money, and if you are passionate about it, I say, "damn the torpedoes - full speed ahead" or something along those lines.

BTW, this weekend, I met some people who have a VERRRRRRYYYYY cool job related to medicine which if I weren't becoming a doctor to serve God I would look into, which is Biomedical research for the government. One gentleman I met has been to Iraq and Afghanistan and works out of the Brooks research center in San Antonio. He gets to wear those cool space-looking suits and carry around a flashy-thing that detects unstable isotopes and even picks up errant biologics, like Anthrax (not the rock band).

🙂

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Here's some food for thought:

"Many different variables have been used in an attempt to predict performance in medical school, residency, and practice. The extensive literature on this subject has been reviewed and evaluated. Admission to medical school should not be based solely on grade point average and Medical College Admission Test scores because these offer no measure of extremely important noncognitive attributes. Although performance in the preclinical years is predicted by the grade point average and Medical College Admission Test scores, no such correlation exists for achievements in the clinical years, for postgraduate training, or as physicians" - Clinical Orthopaedics & Related Research. (362):72-77, May 1999.
Reede, Joan Y. MD, MPH, MS

Dr. Reede's study has been reiterated hundreds of times - all with the same conclusion: there is no way to predict success in medicine by using grades and MCAT scores. This is backed up by my own personal, highly speculative, research where I found that:

1. My advisor who is a highly successful electrophysiologist and Mayo Clinic Alum, entered Med school with a 2.7 gpa and a 25 on the MCAT.

2. Several of my wife's clients are married to doctors, one of whom:
Has a highly successful opthamology practice, also providing emergency eye surgery and care. This doctor had a 2.66 Gpa and a 24 on the MCAT.

Conversely, At my last MCAT practice exam at Princeton Review, super-wienie, the wonder chemist proudly displayed his "40" score that he received, but was "surprisingly" rejected by all of the med schools he applied to. Oh, and he humbly reminded us that he only had a 3.97 Gpa in Chemistry. He'll be a doctor when 93 year old grandmother beats me in the weight room.

Also, a very nice, and way-too-smart, co-student at U of H has a 3.98 in Biochem and got a 39 on the MCAT and she can't get into med school either. Why? She isn't a wienie, but she has never done anything except absorb facts from a book.

So, summing all of this up, we come to the conclusion that a). nobody has a magic formula, b). being brilliant is cool, but not necessarily helpful, c). medicine apparently needs well-rounded (not fat) women and men who want to serve humanity and aren't just trying to say, "I'm a doctor", which is rapidly losing its prestige anyway.

Medicine is one of the three classic disciplines of man, the other two being theology and law. If you want to be a doctor, then you should be a doctor. It's rather obvious (since you are already a pharmacist) that you wouldn't be doing it for the money, and if you are passionate about it, I say, "damn the torpedoes - full speed ahead" or something along those lines.

BTW, this weekend, I met some people who have a VERRRRRRYYYYY cool job related to medicine which if I weren't becoming a doctor to serve God I would look into, which is Biomedical research for the government. One gentleman I met has been to Iraq and Afghanistan and works out of the Brooks research center in San Antonio. He gets to wear those cool space-looking suits and carry around a flashy-thing that detects unstable isotopes and even picks up errant biologics, like Anthrax (not the rock band).

🙂

the really cool thing is that he gets to kill innocent civilians and give 9 year old girls breast cancer with depleted uranium weaponry. I bet God loves that! God loves it when we kill each other! Way cool!

 

[lakeshow]

You can retake them if you want to but you really don't have to unless you got less than a C in any of them. With a 3.1 undergrad gpa you will need some recent coursework to prove you can take tests and get A's (probably 5-10 classes if possible). This is best achieved by taking upper level bio classes. Retaking the prereqs will help with the MCAT. Trying to relearn chemistry and physics from review books is much easier said than done - especially if you want to get into the 30+ range on the MCAT.

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions/advice

 

[RxnMan]

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions/advice

Take a look at this thread. The poster's in a bit more dire place than you, but there's still some good ideas there. The PharmD should help, but you should call schools to see how'd they handle it - give you class credit for it, disregard it, or something in between.

 

[lakeshow]

Take a look at this thread. The poster's in a bit more dire place than you, but there's still some good ideas there. The PharmD should help, but you should call schools to see how'd they handle it - give you class credit for it, disregard it, or something in between.

Thanks, RxnMan. If I take some upper divison science classes at a UC extension, is this ok? I can't afford to quit my job for a formal post-bac program? How many units should I take at a time to prove my ability to the schools? As demostrated, to boost up one's old GPA dramatically is impossible. I just want to prove to the schools that I still have the ability to perform well academically on my more recent course work in addition to scoring well on the MCAT next year.

 

[RxnMan]

- If I take some upper divison science classes at a UC extension, is this ok?

I would think so, but it is always best to get it from the source - call some of the school's you're interested in and ask their dean if these classes would be accepted. Some deans won't give you the time of day, but see if you can schedule a phone interview to pick their brain. Consider just taking the pre-req's over again.

- I can't afford to quit my job for a formal post-bac program?

I don't know what exactly you're asking here. Only you can decide whether to quit your job or not. Formal post-bacc programs are expensive and time-consuming - not always an option. Consider mapping your own personalized one. My hospital offers tuition-reimbursement to employees, so it may be to your advantage to keep your job and creatively schedule your classes. Many big urban colleges offer the pre-req's as night classes.

- How many units should I take at a time to prove my ability to the schools?

If you were quitting your job, then it'd be best to do a standard full class-load. If that's not an option, then at least take more than 1-2 clases at a time. You need to show your capacity to understand the material and manage your time, both of which are crucial to success in med school.

 

[lakeshow]

- If I take some upper divison science classes at a UC extension, is this ok?

I would think so, but it is always best to get it from the source - call some of the school's you're interested in and ask their dean if these classes would be accepted. Some deans won't give you the time of day, but see if you can schedule a phone interview to pick their brain. Consider just taking the pre-req's over again.

- I can't afford to quit my job for a formal post-bac program?

I don't know what exactly you're asking here. Only you can decide whether to quit your job or not. Formal post-bacc programs are expensive and time-consuming - not always an option. Consider mapping your own personalized one. My hospital offers tuition-reimbursement to employees, so it may be to your advantage to keep your job and creatively schedule your classes. Many big urban colleges offer the pre-req's as night classes.

- How many units should I take at a time to prove my ability to the schools?

If you were quitting your job, then it'd be best to do a standard full class-load. If that's not an option, then at least take more than 1-2 clases at a time. You need to show your capacity to understand the material and manage your time, both of which are crucial to success in med school.

Thanks RxnMan

 

[johnny pollen]

Here's some food for thought:

"Many different variables have been used in an attempt to predict performance in medical school, residency, and practice. The extensive literature on this subject has been reviewed and evaluated. Admission to medical school should not be based solely on grade point average and Medical College Admission Test scores because these offer no measure of extremely important noncognitive attributes. Although performance in the preclinical years is predicted by the grade point average and Medical College Admission Test scores, no such correlation exists for achievements in the clinical years, for postgraduate training, or as physicians" - Clinical Orthopaedics & Related Research. (362):72-77, May 1999.
Reede, Joan Y. MD, MPH, MS

Dr. Reede's study has been reiterated hundreds of times - all with the same conclusion: there is no way to predict success in medicine by using grades and MCAT scores. This is backed up by my own personal, highly speculative, research where I found that:

1. My advisor who is a highly successful electrophysiologist and Mayo Clinic Alum, entered Med school with a 2.7 gpa and a 25 on the MCAT.

2. Several of my wife's clients are married to doctors, one of whom:
Has a highly successful opthamology practice, also providing emergency eye surgery and care. This doctor had a 2.66 Gpa and a 24 on the MCAT.

Conversely, At my last MCAT practice exam at Princeton Review, super-wienie, the wonder chemist proudly displayed his "40" score that he received, but was "surprisingly" rejected by all of the med schools he applied to. Oh, and he humbly reminded us that he only had a 3.97 Gpa in Chemistry. He'll be a doctor when 93 year old grandmother beats me in the weight room.

Also, a very nice, and way-too-smart, co-student at U of H has a 3.98 in Biochem and got a 39 on the MCAT and she can't get into med school either. Why? She isn't a wienie, but she has never done anything except absorb facts from a book.

So, summing all of this up, we come to the conclusion that a). nobody has a magic formula, b). being brilliant is cool, but not necessarily helpful, c). medicine apparently needs well-rounded (not fat) women and men who want to serve humanity and aren't just trying to say, "I'm a doctor", which is rapidly losing its prestige anyway.

Medicine is one of the three classic disciplines of man, the other two being theology and law. If you want to be a doctor, then you should be a doctor. It's rather obvious (since you are already a pharmacist) that you wouldn't be doing it for the money, and if you are passionate about it, I say, "damn the torpedoes - full speed ahead" or something along those lines.

BTW, this weekend, I met some people who have a VERRRRRRYYYYY cool job related to medicine which if I weren't becoming a doctor to serve God I would look into, which is Biomedical research for the government. One gentleman I met has been to Iraq and Afghanistan and works out of the Brooks research center in San Antonio. He gets to wear those cool space-looking suits and carry around a flashy-thing that detects unstable isotopes and even picks up errant biologics, like Anthrax (not the rock band).

🙂

Sporky, well-played, mate. But tell me something: whence came the "three classic disciplines of man" reference?

 

[chrisjohn]

Okay. Try applying with a 25 MCAT and a 2.7 GPA and see how far you get.

To the OP. Your GPA is high enough that you won't get immediately screened out at most schools. Don't sweat retaking things unless you really want to. concentrate on scoring a >35 MCAT. You'll be golden. Spin a good PS about how your journey in PharmD has relentlessly led you to the conclusion that you really want to be a plastic surgeon pulling down 700K. You get the idea.

Oh and all those people with stratospheric scores. They'll get in somewhere, sometime. Oh the horror, to apply more than once!

 

[Sporky]

the really cool thing is that he gets to kill innocent civilians and give 9 year old girls breast cancer with depleted uranium weaponry. I bet God loves that! God loves it when we kill each other! Way cool!

Where did that come from? It was I who had the felicitous opportunity to spread radioactive isotopes throughout the eastern seaboard - not the man I met in San Antonio.

 

[Sporky]

Okay. Try applying with a 25 MCAT and a 2.7 GPA and see how far you get.

To the OP. Your GPA is high enough that you won't get immediately screened out at most schools. Don't sweat retaking things unless you really want to. concentrate on scoring a >35 MCAT. You'll be golden. Spin a good PS about how your journey in PharmD has relentlessly led you to the conclusion that you really want to be a plastic surgeon pulling down 700K. You get the idea.

Oh and all those people with stratospheric scores. They'll get in somewhere, sometime. Oh the horror, to apply more than once!

Do you have any idea what percentage of people score > 35 on the MCAT? Hint: It is a very small number - but don't tell anyone.

🙂

 

[Sporky]

Sporky, well-played, mate. But tell me something: whence came the "three classic disciplines of man" reference?

It came from a professor of mine, Dr. John Warwick Montgomery. He is among other things a classicist, and although he is nice, he is terribly intimidating because he has 7 EARNED degrees, from places like Berkely, U CHicago, Strassbourg and Luton, where he is the Chair of the European Center for Law and Justice.

In case your interested, his sometime website is: www.jwm.christendom.co.uk

For some unknown reason, he chose to live in Ol' Britannia instead of the U.S. where we kill 9 year olds and drop depleted uranium on unsuspecting sea urchins. I love England too, but the rain is depressing and you have to pull your own teeth. 🙂

 

[remo]

If I take some upper divison science classes at a UC extension, is this ok?

I have taken a bunch of these and they are great. They are not really extension courses but actual UC undergraduate courses. It is called "concurrent enrollment" and you enroll through the extension office.

 

[engdoc]

.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

the really cool thing is that he gets to kill innocent civilians and give 9 year old girls breast cancer with depleted uranium weaponry. I bet God loves that! God loves it when we kill each other! Way cool!

Completely uncalled for.