Need some advice - Low Post-Bac GPA

[EB73674]

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Hi all, long time lurker but first time posting, since as of tonight I am finding myself in a bit of a desperate position.

Here's what I have going on: I'm a second-semester pre-health post-bac student at UPenn. I did a completely non-science-related program during undergrad (International Relations, 3.4 overall GPA with one geology and one math course the entire time), but realized I wanted to pursue a veterinary degree after leaving the political industry and working in the animal world for 4 years (plus lifelong animal obsession).

My post-bac GPA is pretty crap right now and not likely to improve a whole lot this semester. Last semester was a pretty bad transition period (plus plenty of legitimate life circumstances moving around), but this semester is just the Gen Chem class from hell. I have gone to the professor for help, I've hired a tutor, I'm studying with a friend who currently has about a 3.8 GPA in our program, and I'm doing extra work/problems/etc to try to get ahead. I should improve in my two other classes' grade this semester (B to A- in Gen Chem Lab and B- to B+ in Physics) but I'm pretty sure Chem is going to either be the same or lower (C last semester) given how my last exam went tonight. I'm still learning how to study for this subject and specifically this professor, and I just can't seem to get the hang of it yet.

At what point have I created such a bad-looking trend that I've killed my chances? I'm prepared for it to take a couple of times to get into vet school. This program is definitely Ivy-League-level, and I'm worried that will kill my GPA so badly that it won't recover. Do people transfer to different post-bac programs, or even non-degree programs? How bad does that look? What program would even take me at this point given how badly I've done?

My GPA truly is my only concern - I have non-vet-med animal experience out the wazoo, I'll have around 2000hrs of VA experience at a small animal hospital & at least 300 hrs of equine shadowing/interning by the time I apply, my LORs are already set up, I know that I can do extremely well on the GREs (took 3 years ago and got scores well above average for most vet schools, can only improve), and my personal statement shouldn't be a problem. How do I figure out what vet schools will care about the most?

Basically HELLLLLP I need some sort of guidance! Tips for learning science as non-science-minded people even?

 

[hygebeorht]

Chem is rough no matter what school you are at. At the state school I was at, it ate students alive. I studied on my own and took a CLEP test to fulfill the gen chem requirement so I could move on with my life and get into o chem.

I did an arts degree (well, two of them) before starting into pre-reqs. My main advice is to slow your roll if you are struggling and make sure you fix your GPA. You can always go back and get more hours or whatever, but GPA is hard to fix.

Also, consider asking your tutor to prepare you for CLEP (not sure about Penn but many schools will accept that as transfer credit). When I took it, it was only $80 to take. Much cheaper than a semester of college.

 

[Flashthesloth]

I believe most people find chemistry quite a challenge. To me, the only thing got me too deep is English. I will be nervous like hell and will have my brain blank during an English exam. It dropped my GPA all the way down no matter how many A's I have received from Gen chem, Organic chem and Biochem. Everyone has his/her unique strength. My strategy is that, to work the best on what you are good at, and to get as okay grade as you can for what you don't get the hand of (no hard feeling even you don't do well on some subjects). To take subjects that you are good at all together to get as many A's as you can in one semester, so that you can impress the admission even though you have bad grade for some other subjects.

 

[TrashPanda]

At what point have I created such a bad-looking trend that I've killed my chances? I'm prepared for it to take a couple of times to get into vet school.

How do I figure out what vet schools will care about the most?

Most schools' websites will at least tell you what criteria they use (if there's a minimum GPA, which GPAs they consider, etc.) and are a good place to start. Searching here may also be helpful, and if you can make it to events for prospective students, they should have info on the application process/what they look for. Most schools also have very helpful people answering emails for them.

For some schools, it is quite possible you've killed your chances- some very highly value cumulative GPA, and once you've completed enough credits (which you probably have since you have a BA + postbac), it can be very difficult to get your GPA up once it's down. However, some schools don't look at cGPA at all and instead look at last 45 credits GPA/science GPA/etc. It can be a long and expensive road, but it is entirely possible to take a lot more classes, do well, apply smartly, and get into a school that primarily looks at your more recent credits.

It's hard to give advice without knowing specifics of your situation. If you do want specific advice, post in the What Are My Chances thread here. Also know that some applicants are accepted with low GPAs! You may want to search this forum for titles matching "successful applicants" and you'll see quite a variety of stats.

 

[EB73674]

Chem is rough no matter what school you are at. At the state school I was at, it ate students alive. I studied on my own and took a CLEP test to fulfill the gen chem requirement so I could move on with my life and get into o chem.

I did an arts degree (well, two of them) before starting into pre-reqs. My main advice is to slow your roll if you are struggling and make sure you fix your GPA. You can always go back and get more hours or whatever, but GPA is hard to fix.

Also, consider asking your tutor to prepare you for CLEP (not sure about Penn but many schools will accept that as transfer credit). When I took it, it was only $80 to take. Much cheaper than a semester of college.

Thanks for replying, and thank you to everyone since!

It would appear my UPenn & my undergrad institution (Mount Holyoke) won't accept the CLEP, but maybe studying for it would give me enough of basis to successfully retake the class. It would also carry if I end up switching to my backup plan for a different post-bac. I'm not there yet, but that may change quickly.

I'm also considering either reducing/changing my work schedule or taking only one class in the fall. I'm slated to start Orgo, Orgo lab, and Genetics in the fall, and am planning to keep up with my 15 hr/week vet assistant position, but depending on how it seems to go I may make some changes. I'm lucky that my job is flexible and understands school is first for me, I just want to make sure I maintain enough of a good relationship there to get one or more LORs from the doctors on staff.

What are people's thoughts on doing a Masters program if I'm not able to raise my last-45 GPA to above a 3.4? Does it need to be higher than that or could that be enough? There's an excellent Lab Animal Science MA at Drexel here in Philadelphia that I know people have liked, and my main mentoring vet at work said she was able to do very well in that & impress adcomms after a lackluster undergrad career.

And to be clear, as long as there is a (preferably accredited) vet school that will take me, I'm good. I thought for most of my life that I wasn't smart enough to even think about going pre-vet, let alone get into vet school. If they'll take me, I'll take them. The vets I spend most of my time with either went to Ross/St. George's/St. Matthews or UPenn itself, so I have no qualms about going to a newer or one with less name recognition. The one thing I'm confident about is that I will be an amazing vet if I can just get the chance!

 

[PippyPony]

Just speaking from personal post-bacc experience, a lot of of schools don't actually even care if you're in a formal post-bacc program. So if you could take classes elsewhere and think you could improve, you may be better off switching out of the program.

However, some schools (like Tufts) do take academic rigor into account -- I went to a highly ranked liberal arts college for undergrad & did my post bacc courses at Berkeley and Harvard, and back before I started my post-bacc, Tufts straight up told me that they liked to see coursework done at challenging institutions and would likely make slight allowances in GPA to compensate for the increased rigor. So it's something to maybe ask your target schools about. They might not even care about a C (or two) very much, provided everything else looks good.

On the reducing your work hours thing, that could be a good idea, but you'll want to check with the schools to which you're applying to make sure you're keeping up with their expectations for carrying a full course load. For reference, I tried to take at least a lecture plus a lecture + lab combo while I was working full-time. I did reduce that down to just orgo + orgo lab when I took that, however (was a good decision, and would recommend -- organic is time-consuming).

Lastly, this isn't directly answering your question, but...I just want to make sure you're prepared for what lies ahead. Gen chem is by far the easiest of the chemistry prereqs for a lot of people -- if you don't have a good foundation in gen chem, then organic & biochem are likely going to be rough.

Good luck!! 🙂

sent from ma fone

 

[PippyPony]

Oh, and if you want to know how schools will view your grades, just ask them 😉 It helps to reach out to the admissions people at the schools you're interested in. They want to attract students who are excited about going to their school and who will do well in the program, and usually they're very nice!

sent from ma fone

 

[EB73674]

Oh, and if you want to know how schools will view your grades, just ask them 😉 It helps to reach out to the admissions people at the schools you're interested in. They want to attract students who are excited about going to their school and who will do well in the program, and usually they're very nice!

sent from ma fone

Thanks so SO much for your replies PippyPony!

Reaching out to my intended schools seems like the best option right now - I haven't seen any other way to get a good idea of how they weigh the different GPAs vs. GRE vs. experience, etc. After crunching the numbers, I truly think I can get my cumulative GPA up to at least a 3.3 or 3.4 (undergrad will help!), science or pre-req to 3.2, and last 45 possibly higher. Ironically, my good-but-not-great undergrad GPA may be helpful. There is a reputation in this program for Gen Chem with this specific professor being a real bear, but it makes Orgo and Biochem easier to an extent. My issue, at least from my observations, isn't that I'm not understanding the material so much as I'm having trouble with the timing of the tests. I am consistently running out of time, which wasn't a particularly big problem for me last semester until the final, which caused the drop to C from the B-/B I had before it. Additionally, if I retake it with the same professor (assuming my fears of a C- or lower are confirmed), I don't see any reason I couldn't get an A- or A. I'm working with a counselor to help manage my mental health (lots of issues last semester and this one), and will be speaking with my advisor about what my actual options are.

I'm going to keep an open mind about things until I get to Orgo in the fall - if I get into it and am seriously struggling, I'll drop the class before any transcript notation and transfer to the other post-bacc. I get the impression that, while they look at academic rigor, a low GPA will cut you out of the running before leaving a prestigious program for an easier one would.