need some advice on which path to take

[arkgal]

My cGPA is 2.85. I have a BS in Biology. Most of my problem is from a few years when I was younger and not serious about school. I am 28 now. I'm about to graduate with my BSN in December. Nursing school has not helped my GPA by any means. Through my clinical exposure I know for certain I want to be a physician. I have 2 good options as I see it. Move across the border to TX and do the Fresh Start program. I estimate that would put my cGPA at 3.25. With that and a good MCAT I think I could have a chance because they have 8 public med schools. But I have also thought about moving to Boston and dong Harvars extension smp. That won't bring up my gpa but if I do well...which would give me a better shot? Any other advice or alternatives are welcome. Thank you.

 

[zebalong]

My cGPA is 2.85. I have a BS in Biology. Most of my problem is from a few years when I was younger and not serious about school. I am 28 now. I'm about to graduate with my BSN in December. Nursing school has not helped my GPA by any means. Through my clinical exposure I know for certain I want to be a physician. I have 2 good options as I see it. Move across the border to TX and do the Fresh Start program. I estimate that would put my cGPA at 3.25. With that and a good MCAT I think I could have a chance because they have 8 public med schools. But I have also thought about moving to Boston and dong Harvars extension smp. That won't bring up my gpa but if I do well...which would give me a better shot? Any other advice or alternatives are welcome. Thank you.

Hi, fellow nurse here... this might be harsh but I see many red flags here.

If you weren't able to really shine in nursing school - what has changed to your study habits and outlook that will allow you to actually even pass in medical school? Nursing school is like middle school and medical school is like being a mechanical engineer major in college. Not only are the concepts more detailed but they are more relatively abstract and there are just 50000 more of them as well.

Aiming for a cum gpa of 3.25 ain't going to cut it- and if you only get a 3.25 you really don't have a great chance at "killing" the MCAT - at least not enough to get into medical school. With a 3.25gpa and decent MCAT you will have a terrible chance in getting in anywhere, I wouldn't take that bet in a million years.

You need that fresh start program if you want to apply to medical school, you should scratch boston off your options list completely. a 2.85 with many credits behind it is fighting a losing battle if you hope to do gpa repair.

I'd say this, you need a 4.0 (or at least aim as close as possible to that as you can) in your pre-reques at a fresh start program. This will set you up nicely for the MCAT plus it will get you used to really crushing your course work. AND you need to do this while at least holding a part time nursing job. Learn time management, learn good studying skills, and learn to excel.

Remember a lot of medical students come into medical school with gpa's way over 3.6 and they STRUGGLE to keep up. Being a nurse won't help you at all in your first two years of course work.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Seriously? You started two of the exact same thread 40 minutes apart. Why?

 

[arkgal]

Seriously? You started two of the exact same thread 40 minutes apart. Why?

I don't know how that happened...a glitch in my android phone?

 

[arkgal]

Excuse me but you are assuming a lot based on very little information. I actually did very well in the courses I took in the year before nursing school, and in nursing school itself. I've done well in most of my nursing courses, mind you I have 3 C's. Every course grade has been over an 80 - an 84 is B. I made a 83.89 in one course. They do not round. Similarly, a 93 is an A. In one course I made a 92.6. Again they don't round. Had they used a regular grading scale, I would have all A's and B's in nursing school. Adding the fact that I have had to work 32 hours a week while in school, I have done well. I have also excelled in clinical.

Doing the fresh start and taking 60 credits assuming a 3.9 gpa would put me at 3.25. Probably higher for a DO school. I believe I can do that. There are people on this forum who were in my boat and worked hard and got into medical school. If they listened to staements like you've made they wouldn't have got anywhere

Hi, fellow nurse here... this might be harsh but I see many red flags here.

If you weren't able to really shine in nursing school - what has changed to your study habits and outlook that will allow you to actually even pass in medical school? Nursing school is like middle school and medical school is like being a mechanical engineer major in college. Not only are the concepts more detailed but they are more relatively abstract and there are just 50000 more of them as well.

Aiming for a cum gpa of 3.25 ain't going to cut it- and if you only get a 3.25 you really don't have a great chance at "killing" the MCAT - at least not enough to get into medical school. With a 3.25gpa and decent MCAT you will have a terrible chance in getting in anywhere, I wouldn't take that bet in a million years.

You need that fresh start program if you want to apply to medical school, you should scratch boston off your options list completely. a 2.85 with many credits behind it is fighting a losing battle if you hope to do gpa repair.

I'd say this, you need a 4.0 (or at least aim as close as possible to that as you can) in your pre-reques at a fresh start program. This will set you up nicely for the MCAT plus it will get you used to really crushing your course work. AND you need to do this while at least holding a part time nursing job. Learn time management, learn good studying skills, and learn to excel.

Remember a lot of medical students come into medical school with gpa's way over 3.6 and they STRUGGLE to keep up. Being a nurse won't help you at all in your first two years of course work.

 

[zebalong]

You asked for advice and I gave it. It wasn't the advice you wanted to hear but coming from someone who has been through a smiliar situation as you: nursing school, worked as a nurse, and then applied to medical school and is now in second year - I would hope you consider what I say - but then it is your choice to follow whatever advice you want.

If you look at your other double post - the other replies have been about the same. I quote and have underlined an important message: "If you retake classes, you can appy DO and have a decent chance, but right now, neither of your options are going to get you into med school. "

And to be quite honest, you can make as much excuses for why you got 3 C's in nursing school, why you missed an A by a percent but the truth is I think you need to be honest with yourself and say you just didn't do enough and that you need to make a change. If you were really doing well you wouldn't have even been close to the C range. We've all missed that A or A- by half a percent, it sucks but it isn't a valid excuse to a low gpa. You can say you did well clinically, but it doesn't necessarily carry over to medical school- clinical medicine is completely different from "nursing rotations".

You're walking on a VERY tight rope, one or two C's in your pre-requs with a 2.8 something gpa and you will be in a very deep hole. You don't have room for any future excuses and that is the point I'm trying to make.

I know its hard, tiring and frustrating- I've been there - a lot of non-trads have done the working while doing post-bac classes plus studying for the MCAT. But i hope you wake up and realize that you need to start making some changes in the way you approach school if you really want to get into medical school AND do well once you matriculate. Lose the ego and make a realistic plan.

Consider DO like the other poster said and try for massive grade replacement unless you qualify for a fresh start. If you do your research though most if not all DO programs have higher gpa averages then 3.25.

 

[jl lin]

You asked for advice and I gave it. It wasn't the advice you wanted to hear but coming from someone who has been through a smiliar situation as you: nursing school, worked as a nurse, and then applied to medical school and is now in second year - I would hope you consider what I say - but then it is your choice to follow whatever advice you want.

If you look at your other double post - the other replies have been about the same. I quote and have underlined an important message: "If you retake classes, you can appy DO and have a decent chance, but right now, neither of your options are going to get you into med school. "

And to be quite honest, you can make as much excuses for why you got 3 C's in nursing school, why you missed an A by a percent but the truth is I think you need to be honest with yourself and say you just didn't do enough and that you need to make a change. If you were really doing well you wouldn't have even been close to the C range. We've all missed that A or A- by half a percent, it sucks but it isn't a valid excuse to a low gpa. You can say you did well clinically, but it doesn't necessarily carry over to medical school- clinical medicine is completely different from "nursing rotations".

You're walking on a VERY tight rope, one or two C's in your pre-requs with a 2.8 something gpa and you will be in a very deep hole. You don't have room for any future excuses and that is the point I'm trying to make.

I know its hard, tiring and frustrating- I've been there - a lot of non-trads have done the working while doing post-bac classes plus studying for the MCAT. But i hope you wake up and realize that you need to start making some changes in the way you approach school if you really want to get into medical school AND do well once you matriculate. Lose the ego and make a realistic plan.

Consider DO like the other poster said and try for massive grade replacement unless you qualify for a fresh start. If you do your research though most if not all DO programs have higher gpa averages then 3.25.

Another fellow RN here. (No, I'm not in med school yet. I am not applying until I feel all my p's and q's are ALL in order, period. It makes no sense to rush for someone else's timetable.) But I just have to agree with zebalong. And quite frankly, you really haven't worked as an acute or critical care RN yet (Sorry about the economy, but good luck with finding a job in many regions in acute or critical care w/o experience.), so you really can't, as yet, use that as beneficial for application to med school. And to bring up your GPA, it will be tough to do so if you do get a RN position in those areas.

Sheeeeesh. You do have your work cut out for you. I'd listen to Zeb. I don't think Zeb is trying to be harsh, just forthright-- you know, so that you can become well-armed.

Truly, the best to you!

 

[arkgal]

Another fellow RN here. (No, I'm not in med school yet. I am not applying until I feel all my p's and q's are ALL in order, period. It makes no sense to rush for someone else's timetable.) But I just have to agree with zebalong. And quite frankly, you really haven't worked as an acute or critical care RN yet (Sorry about the economy, but good luck with finding a job in many regions in acute or critical care w/o experience.), so you really can't, as yet, use that as beneficial for application to med school. And to bring up your GPA, it will be tough to do so if you do get a RN position in those areas.

Sheeeeesh. You do have your work cut out for you. I'd listen to Zeb. I don't think Zeb is trying to be harsh, just forthright-- you know, so that you can become well-armed.

Truly, the best to you!

Thank you for your advice. I think I took Zeb's advice in a negative way even if it was meant to be helpful. I am not disillusioned about the path that lies ahead of me or of the thanges I need to make and what I must overcome. I wanted to be a doctor earlier in life but I let life get in the way. I now know for certain that I want to be a doctor.

As for as medical experience, althought I haven't worked in acute care, I am an LPN with long-term care experience. I've worked as a rehab nurse and currently am a wound care nurse. Both positions carry a high degree of responsibility and autonomy. I have also worked PRN at an inpatient hospice facility that provides care with the same level of acuity you would find in a hospital. There I worked closely with the RN's and physicians.

I really do feel my best bet is to move to TX and work as an RN and use the fresh start. I am going to try to get 60 to 90 credits with as close to a 4.0 as possible. Between that and preparing well for the MCAT I believe I have a shot. I'm also willing to give DO schools a shot. One of the public med schools in TX is a DO school as well. I can't give up at this point.

 

[Nasrudin]

Thank you for your advice. I think I took Zeb's advice in a negative way even if it was meant to be helpful. I am not disillusioned about the path that lies ahead of me or of the thanges I need to make and what I must overcome. I wanted to be a doctor earlier in life but I let life get in the way. I now know for certain that I want to be a doctor.

As for as medical experience, althought I haven't worked in acute care, I am an LPN with long-term care experience. I've worked as a rehab nurse and currently am a wound care nurse. Both positions carry a high degree of responsibility and autonomy. I have also worked PRN at an inpatient hospice facility that provides care with the same level of acuity you would find in a hospital. There I worked closely with the RN's and physicians.

I really do feel my best bet is to move to TX and work as an RN and use the fresh start. I am going to try to get 60 to 90 credits with as close to a 4.0 as possible. Between that and preparing well for the MCAT I believe I have a shot. I'm also willing to give DO schools a shot. One of the public med schools in TX is a DO school as well. I can't give up at this point.

So like Zeb is saying. Go across the border and work. And get your 1-2 years of near 4-point. Post a good score. Then with a 3.4 or whatever and bangin clinicals you'll be a decent candidate.

Keep in mind. As a working nurse of any sort. You've already knocked the clinical experience component out of the park. But you have to give them dork street creds. Science and technology bro. Don't ask me. That's just what they gotta see.

So give it to'em. Like this:

 

[gerdman]

I really do feel my best bet is to move to TX and work as an RN and use the fresh start. I am going to try to get 60 to 90 credits with as close to a 4.0 as possible. Between that and preparing well for the MCAT I believe I have a shot. I'm also willing to give DO schools a shot. One of the public med schools in TX is a DO school as well. I can't give up at this point.

Keep in mind the DO school in Texas (which is TCOM/U of North Texas Health Science Ctr) is not your typical DO school. For example, it is a member of TMDSAS which means no grade replacement, no GPA recalculation for retakes, etc. and their mean MCAT is comparable to Texas Tech. So you really need to concentrate on your MCAT as well.

 

[k488k488]

Yeah, I hate to say this, but Ji Lin and Zeb are right. Honestly, admission committees have a huge stack of applications, and GPA and MCATs are the most efficient way they have to draw the line. If it's a choice of being a 3.0 from Harvard or 3.9 from community college and local state school, you're better off with the 3.9 from community college/state school. Life experience is highly valuable, once you get past the GPA/MCAT cut. Between MCATs and GPA, I'd probably say GPA is more important, though that is an opinion, not fact. Also, the MCATs are brutal. Not only do you have to know mounds of random material, you need to also know how to take a test, and it's the test taking ability that is repeatedly tested throughout a medical career (I've taken the MCATs, USMLE 1,2,3, the Internal medicine boards, the Pulmonary boards, the Critical Care boards, and the Sleep medicine boards, and there will ALWAYS be 3 possible choices that all seem right on every question). In short, GPA and MCAT are used to draw the line, and the personal story gets you in. And then the hell starts. Good luck.

 

[mmcintosh]

srleslie,
I DONT CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS. YOU KNOW YOUR ABILITIES!!!! No one can make an exact determination of what your future will be. Not only that, The MCAT is changing and will eliminate some of the prereq's that are now in place. I just want to say that tough talk is not always tough truth. Sometimes it is just plain negative. I have not seen one excuse that you made in any of your statements. Please be encouraged to go forward without listening too much to others that do not know your abilities and are not familiar with your story. YOU HAVE SUCCEEDED BEFORE AND WILL DO IT AGAIN. The fresh start program sounds great. I would definitely look into that. And remember that Med schools are NOT ALL ALIKE. Non trad students are viewed differently everywhere. Be encouraged to apply to both MD and DO programs.... Wish you all the best.

Thank you for your advice. I think I took Zeb's advice in a negative way even if it was meant to be helpful. I am not disillusioned about the path that lies ahead of me or of the thanges I need to make and what I must overcome. I wanted to be a doctor earlier in life but I let life get in the way. I now know for certain that I want to be a doctor.

As for as medical experience, althought I haven't worked in acute care, I am an LPN with long-term care experience. I've worked as a rehab nurse and currently am a wound care nurse. Both positions carry a high degree of responsibility and autonomy. I have also worked PRN at an inpatient hospice facility that provides care with the same level of acuity you would find in a hospital. There I worked closely with the RN's and physicians.

I really do feel my best bet is to move to TX and work as an RN and use the fresh start. I am going to try to get 60 to 90 credits with as close to a 4.0 as possible. Between that and preparing well for the MCAT I believe I have a shot. I'm also willing to give DO schools a shot. One of the public med schools in TX is a DO school as well. I can't give up at this point.

 

[jl lin]

No smack talk here. You seem angry. No one is being negative . Just best to be real. I hate to say it but there are a number of docs that wished the would have seriously considered a different career path...and that doen't make them bad people or failures. M. There's a loy of investment in time, money, and loads of energy. Best to look at things realistically head on. If that's what the poster is doing than he or she should be cool with the well-meaning realism. Just one person's opinion.

 

[mmcintosh]

No smack talk here. You seem angry. No one is being negative . Just best to be real. I hate to say it but there are a number of docs that wished the would have seriously considered a different career path...and that doen't make them bad people or failures. M. There's a loy of investment in time, money, and loads of energy. Best to look at things realistically head on. If that's what the poster is doing than he or she should be cool with the well-meaning realism. Just one person's opinion.

And there are a lot of very healthy attitudes out there regarding medicine as well. Too many times, I have seen the ills of nasty people on SDN. They try to pass off thier own misery onto others. If u r miserable then maybe u need a change not the original poster. Don't try to disguise ur own anger and misery as ADVICE. Real advice does not begin with u r not good enough. That sounds like a put down first, and secondly, ur own internal struggle with ur ability. She is capable and has value period.

 

[zebalong]

And there are a lot of very healthy attitudes out there regarding medicine as well. Too many times, I have seen the ills of nasty people on SDN. They try to pass off thier own misery onto others. If u r miserable then maybe u need a change not the original poster. Don't try to disguise ur own anger and misery as ADVICE. Real advice does not begin with u r not good enough. That sounds like a put down first, and secondly, ur own internal struggle with ur ability. She is capable and has value period.

Woah ok i thought this thread was done until i checked this morning. K lets back track a bit and first say no one is saying that the OP "isn't good enough" or doesn't have "value", secondly I don't think I or anyone else on this post is trying to pass "our misery" onto others. I feel you are projecting something you have experienced or are experiencing onto this post when it really isn't needed.

I think the "American Dream" of you can overcome adversity and succeed in whatever you try in is GREAT - so I get your point. OP asked for advice so we gave advice not only about his current situation but how he has to really tackle everything from now on. The fact is that very few people with under a 3.4 gpa have a half decent shot of getting into medical school:

https://www.aamc.org/download/157958/data/table25-w-mcatgpa-grid-white-0810.pdf.pdf

compounded by the fact that he has many units behind him, repairing a 2.85 will be a tough road. It is important that the OP understand that even if he spends an extra 2-3 years to get his gpa up to 3.2-3.3, even with a solid MCAT he still doesn't have the greatests of odds - he should know so he can make an informed decision before he puts in those years/effort/ and sacrifice to his personal life.

Read the above posts more carefully - OP clearly has had some tough times in nursing school but unfortunately things aren't going to get any easier from here . You said you haven't read any excuses - im not going to requote what you can clearly read: The OP made some Cs in his nursing courses and passed that off as a hard cut off. While it probably is definitely true, I experienced the same thing in nursing school, that unfortunately is not going to cut it in medical school admissions - they see a C on a transcript and thats a C - whether or not it was a fair grade. You have to find ways to overcome difficultly graded classes or grade schemes that aren't exactly what you'd consider "fair"

Is it doable? if he is willing to put in the years of work and effort then yes it is - but the OP will have to really be insightful and figure out what wasn't working for them when they were taking courses before and make the necessary changes - that is all the replies were implying. Lets not point fingers at that advice is "too harsh" or critical because that is subjective - not to mention what was said was pretty benign compared to what is out there in the real medical profession. So that leaves just one final question: Was anything inappropriate said? I don't think so, so lets not twist this into something it clearly is not.

 

[mmcintosh]

I WILL END THIS HERE: YOU NEED TO LOOK AT MD APPLICANTS.COM , then do a search for accepted- withGPA BELOW 3.0........ FROM THE BEGINNING, BOTH OF YOUR RESPONSES WERE JUST PLAIN NEGATIVE and you have clearly PROJECTED YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES ONTO THE 'OP'. I'm sure he will do fine and I am interested in his success.....So OP if you are in need of some encouragement PM me. I will be glad to help as mush as I can. That is the problem with this board. Too many negative, miserable and nasty people, trying to pass off negative talk as truth. And just as the OP mentioned to you, "IF OTHERS WERE TO TAKE YOUR NEGATIVE ADVICE, NO ONE WOULD EVER EVEN TRY." Good for you OP go forward with your best plan.

Woah ok i thought this thread was done until i checked this morning. K lets back track a bit and first say no one is saying that the OP "isn't good enough" or doesn't have "value", secondly I don't think I or anyone else on this post is trying to pass "our misery" onto others. I feel you are projecting something you have experienced or are experiencing onto this post when it really isn't needed.

I think the "American Dream" of you can overcome adversity and succeed in whatever you try in is GREAT - so I get your point. OP asked for advice so we gave advice not only about his current situation but how he has to really tackle everything from now on. The fact is that very few people with under a 3.4 gpa have a half decent shot of getting into medical school:

https://www.aamc.org/download/157958/data/table25-w-mcatgpa-grid-white-0810.pdf.pdf

compounded by the fact that he has many units behind him, repairing a 2.85 will be a tough road. It is important that the OP understand that even if he spends an extra 2-3 years to get his gpa up to 3.2-3.3, even with a solid MCAT he still doesn't have the greatests of odds - he should know so he can make an informed decision before he puts in those years/effort/ and sacrifice to his personal life.

Read the above posts more carefully - OP clearly has had some tough times in nursing school but unfortunately things aren't going to get any easier from here . You said you haven't read any excuses - im not going to requote what you can clearly read: The OP made some Cs in his nursing courses and passed that off as a hard cut off. While it probably is definitely true, I experienced the same thing in nursing school, that unfortunately is not going to cut it in medical school admissions - they see a C on a transcript and thats a C - whether or not it was a fair grade. You have to find ways to overcome difficultly graded classes or grade schemes that aren't exactly what you'd consider "fair"

Is it doable? if he is willing to put in the years of work and effort then yes it is - but the OP will have to really be insightful and figure out what wasn't working for them when they were taking courses before and make the necessary changes - that is all the replies were implying. Lets not point fingers at that advice is "too harsh" or critical because that is subjective - not to mention what was said was pretty benign compared to what is out there in the real medical profession. So that leaves just one final question: Was anything inappropriate said? I don't think so, so lets not twist this into something it clearly is not.

 

[Nasrudin]

I WILL END THIS HERE: YOU NEED TO LOOK AT MD APPLICANTS.COM , then do a search for accepted- withGPA BELOW 3.0........ FROM THE BEGINNING, BOTH OF YOUR RESPONSES WERE JUST PLAIN NEGATIVE and you have clearly PROJECTED YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES ONTO THE 'OP'. I'm sure he will do fine and I am interested in his success.....So OP if you are in need of some encouragement PM me. I will be glad to help as mush as I can. That is the problem with this board. Too many negative, miserable and nasty people, trying to pass off negative talk as truth. And just as the OP mentioned to you, "IF OTHERS WERE TO TAKE YOUR NEGATIVE ADVICE, NO ONE WOULD EVER EVEN TRY." Good for you OP go forward with your best plan.

Dude...

Below a 3.0 cum gpa is a statistical anomaly. And requires quantum mechanical application technique.

The possibility is positive. The bewilderment at such events is not negative. It is a logical consequence to illogical circumstance. To be thankful that such things exist yes. To be defiant and aggressive towards the logical only makes you ludicrous and insensible.

Go that way if you have to. But accept what goes with it.

 

[zebalong]

" YOU NEED TO LOOK AT MD APPLICANTS.COM , then do a search for accepted- withGPA BELOW 3.0........"


I politely disagree with your reasoning but this will be my last post on the topic as well.

If you want to encourage people to try and be one out of the 1000 that actually make it with a under 3.0 gpa that is your choice and I respect that - i even think it is unreasonable to encourage people to be hopeful when applying with a 3.2. I am just trying to get OP the best chance possible to get in, since he is sacrificing a lot to try and bring up that gpa. I still believe the gpa needed is at least a 3.4.

Medicine is filled with statistically unreasonable odds - letting people know that it can happen is important to keep hope, but also that has to be tempered with the reality that many times the odds will win.

 

[mmcintosh]

It should never be done with negativity. Especially if you don't personally know them. This board is not the know all of the Medical school app process. Additionally, call it what you want, but encouraging a fellow student to keep trying with empowerment will fuel hope and not the discouraging negativity of communicated inadequacy. If that is telling them to shoot for the lowest possibility, then you have not understood anything that I have said. Again I wish the OP well in their endeavors and believe that they will be successful because of the existing motivation demonstrated this far. After all this is the 'NON-TRADITIONAL FORUM'. Nothing here will resemble the ordinary path of the app process. People come to this forum from several different backgrounds and because they believe that colleagues of the same interest can actually help them positively not cause them to give up altogether. OP come join us in the 40 and over forum. There are plenty of nurses there and we appreciate each other.

" YOU NEED TO LOOK AT MD APPLICANTS.COM , then do a search for accepted- withGPA BELOW 3.0........"


I politely disagree with your reasoning but this will be my last post on the topic as well.

If you want to encourage people to try and be one out of the 1000 that actually make it with a under 3.0 gpa that is your choice and I respect that - i even think it is unreasonable to encourage people to be hopeful when applying with a 3.2. I am just trying to get OP the best chance possible to get in, since he is sacrificing a lot to try and bring up that gpa. I still believe the gpa needed is at least a 3.4.

Medicine is filled with statistically unreasonable odds - letting people know that it can happen is important to keep hope, but also that has to be tempered with the reality that many times the odds will win.

 

[TriagePreMed]

My cGPA is 2.85. I have a BS in Biology. Most of my problem is from a few years when I was younger and not serious about school. I am 28 now. I'm about to graduate with my BSN in December. Nursing school has not helped my GPA by any means. Through my clinical exposure I know for certain I want to be a physician. I have 2 good options as I see it. Move across the border to TX and do the Fresh Start program. I estimate that would put my cGPA at 3.25. With that and a good MCAT I think I could have a chance because they have 8 public med schools. But I have also thought about moving to Boston and dong Harvars extension smp. That won't bring up my gpa but if I do well...which would give me a better shot? Any other advice or alternatives are welcome. Thank you.

I will have to side with the people that see bleak hope in getting accepted. Not only did you have a BS in Biology with a low GPA, but you have also had low grades during your nursing degree. A 93 vs 90 being an "A" is a moot point. In CA, the UC System grades similarly, yet you will find students with high GPA's.

I think at the end of the day it is up to you to decide if it's all worth it and go for it from there. Do you want to move to Texas? Do you want to take 60 units (2 years of your life at least) for the possibility of medical school? Do you want to live knowing that Texas is, for all intents and purposes, your only hope to be a doctor? These are all up to you to decide.
In essence, could your plan work out in theory? Yes, nothing can stop it in theory.

I would recommend that at this juncture you consider medical school in the Caribbean. I know it's very risky, but given your set of circumstances, that's the only option I see viable, albeit just as risky as the other and likely greater economic impact if you fail.

 

[Scottish Chap]

(added for balance)

Several of the above posts are unnecessarily harsh, in my humble opinion. A healthy dose of reality is good, but medical school is not rocket science. I had a pretty mediocre GPA and MCAT, and did just fine in medical school and on all the licensing exams. The person with the lowest MCAT in the year above me graduated top of the first-year class, and then graduated in the top 20 overall, winning a competitive residency at an Ivy Leage institution.

Get into (any U.S.) medical school--do whatever it takes--and you'll see that you start with a clean slate. Your past does not always dictate your future. Good luck, srleslie!

 

[mmcintosh]

(added for balance)

Several of the above posts are unnecessarily harsh, in my humble opinion. A healthy dose of reality is good, but medical school is not rocket science. I had a pretty mediocre GPA and MCAT, and did just fine in medical school and on all the licensing exams. The person with the lowest MCAT in the year above me graduated top of the first-year class, and then graduated in the top 20 overall, winning a competitive residency at an Ivy Leage institution.

Get into (any U.S.) medical school--do whatever it takes--and you'll see that you start with a clean slate. Your past does not always dictate your future. Good luck, srleslie!

Well thank the good Lord for that. As I said earlier. All of the negative posts are unreasonably mean. Face it , it can and will be done. So glad that someone had the right mind to stand against the regime of negativity. This poster is a clear example of what truth is. Take a lesson here from someone who has beat the odds. He did exactly what you said could not be done. Best example thus far..Now "OP" please let this encourage you today. Well as the Scottish chap has said, its not rocket science.........I love it...

 

[TriagePreMed]

Well thank the good Lord for that. As I said earlier. All of the negative posts are unreasonably mean. Face it , it can and will be done. So glad that someone had the right mind to stand against the regime of negativity. This poster is a clear example of what truth is. Take a lesson here from someone who has beat the odds. He did exactly what you said could not be done. Best example thus far..Now "OP" please let this encourage you today. Well as the Scottish chap has said, its not rocket science.........I love it...

This is cute to say, but let's look at the data:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=...08-10.pdf.pdf&embedded=true&chrome=true&pli=1

This data can be deceiving because it doesn't show minorities/people with masters/Ph.D/Etc., but let's take it at face value for now. About 4.5k of about 18k were accepted to medical school. This means that your optimism to get into medical school will be wrong for 73% of people. Sure, that means the OP could be in the 27% that get in, but given that he has a 2.8 in a bio degree AND a low nursing GPA, this makes his case more likely to be in the 73%.

Sure, it can be done, and I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible. However, it's simply irresponsible to say that he is on the better end of things here. If all the OP wants to know is can his plan work? The answer is yes. Will his plan work? So far all the data suggests no. When his plan entails moving to another state and spending at least 2 years of his life in school full time, I think you need a harsh critic, not blind positivism.

 

[mmcintosh]

The facts are in and the jury says: IT HAS BEEN DONE.......THE REAL LIFE EXAMPLE NOT A NUMERICAL STATISTIC HAS SPOKEN...

This is cute to say, but let's look at the data:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=...08-10.pdf.pdf&embedded=true&chrome=true&pli=1

This data can be deceiving because it doesn't show minorities/people with masters/Ph.D/Etc., but let's take it at face value for now. About 4.5k of about 18k were accepted to medical school. This means that your optimism to get into medical school will be wrong for 73% of people. Sure, that means the OP could be in the 27% that get in, but given that he has a 2.8 in a bio degree AND a low nursing GPA, this makes his case more likely to be in the 73%.

Sure, it can be done, and I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible. However, it's simply irresponsible to say that he is on the better end of things here. If all the OP wants to know is can his plan work? The answer is yes. Will his plan work? So far all the data suggests no. When his plan entails moving to another state and spending at least 2 years of his life in school full time, I think you need a harsh critic, not blind positivism.

 

[zebalong]

The facts are in and the jury says: IT HAS BEEN DONE.......THE REAL LIFE EXAMPLE NOT A NUMERICAL STATISTIC HAS SPOKEN...

I could find someone who has survived invasive cancer without medical treatment as well, but it doesn't mean as a doctor I'd ever suggest it to one of my patients. Statistics and data should be included when presenting an argument if you want your point to be seriously considered.

All you keep stating is "Go for it" and "I believe in your plan" but you haven't even touched upon the OP's original post. He asked for advice on two distinct paths and at the very least you could give the OP some advice if you are so quick to shoot down the rest of ours. And as much as you love to write in bold, with short statements and all capital letters - it makes you argument that much harder to take seriously. Please develop your argument into a well thoughout idea with at least some evidence behind your reasoning besides "IT HAS BEEN DONE".

Explain to us why we shouldn't use statistics in helping the OP decide on how best to get into medical school? Are medical school averages so unreliable that they bear no relevance to the possibility of admissions? Connect the dots with your reasoning.

This is the OP's life and future - the very least you could contribute something productive and realistic. This post asked for advice it didn't ask for a cheerleading squad. We aren't saying the applicant isn't worthy or that he won't succeed in medical school if he gets in - what we are saying is that admissions is competitive, and just because you checked all the boxes doesn't mean all your hard work will get you in. The fact is there are many smart and capable people every year who don't get in. This is about what the OP can do to maximize his competitive edge which unfortunately with a 2.85 isn't very competitive at the moment.

Scottchamp didn't you have a PhD prior to applying to medical school too? That really helps in the admission process as there are very few applicants that apply with one - making you quite competitive even if other parts of the application are weak so this wouldn't necessarily apply to the OP. Unfortunately there are lots of people who apply with substantial clinical experience but not many with PhDs.

 

[mmcintosh]

I'm sure it is killing you that your efforts to discourage through negativity did not go over well. The facts have been demonstrated by a REAL LIFE example of success during your own efforts to discourage the OP. No need to add an argument to that so eloquently stated truth. Your problem is that you can't negatively persuade the OP or anyone else that believes in themselves to take YOUR WORD AS LAW. You are very talented at DEFLECTION and I guess that is your way of combatting an inability to change our minds.. Have you forgotten how you tried to cause the OP to feel like a failure in Nursing school and much less apply for entrance into Med School. I count it an honor to be a cheerleader against the negative attacks that have been so abruptly forced upon someone that has simply asked for advice from like-minded colleagues. It's unfortunate that as a colleague you missed an opportunity to provide the advice because of your harsh response. And when the OP confronted you, you were just as harsh in your 2nd response. Worst of all your rush to judgement served no one but yourself, and you don't even know the OP personally. We do have the record...........

I could find someone who has survived invasive cancer without medical treatment as well, but it doesn't mean as a doctor I'd ever suggest it to one of my patients. Statistics and data should be included when presenting an argument if you want your point to be seriously considered.

All you keep stating is "Go for it" and "I believe in your plan" but you haven't even touched upon the OP's original post. He asked for advice on two distinct paths and at the very least you could give the OP some advice if you are so quick to shoot down the rest of ours. And as much as you love to write in bold, with short statements and all capital letters - it makes you argument that much harder to take seriously. Please develop your argument into a well thoughout idea with at least some evidence behind your reasoning besides "IT HAS BEEN DONE".

Explain to us why we shouldn't use statistics in helping the OP decide on how best to get into medical school? Are medical school averages so unreliable that they bear no relevance to the possibility of admissions? Connect the dots with your reasoning.

This is the OP's life and future - the very least you could contribute something productive and realistic. This post asked for advice it didn't ask for a cheerleading squad. We aren't saying the applicant isn't worthy or that he won't succeed in medical school if he gets in - what we are saying is that admissions is competitive, and just because you checked all the boxes doesn't mean all your hard work will get you in. The fact is there are many smart and capable people every year who don't get in. This is about what the OP can do to maximize his competitive edge which unfortunately with a 2.85 isn't very competitive at the moment.

Scottchamp didn't you have a PhD prior to applying to medical school too? That really helps in the admission process as there are very few applicants that apply with one - making you quite competitive even if other parts of the application are weak so this wouldn't necessarily apply to the OP. Unfortunately there are lots of people who apply with substantial clinical experience but not many with PhDs.

 

[TriagePreMed]

There's no point in arguing with this guy. He can't even understand the different between possible and likely, and he can't seem to use history as a reference point.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I Scottchamp didn't you have a PhD prior to applying to medical school too? That really helps in the admission process as there are very few applicants that apply with one - making you quite competitive even if other parts of the application are weak so this wouldn't necessarily apply to the OP. Unfortunately there are lots of people who apply with substantial clinical experience but not many with PhDs.

A Ph.D. means little with regard to medical school admissions - it's an interesting extracurricular activity. Ask anyone who applied with one and there are many; it's simpy not that impressive. It does not help and, if anything, you are treated with more suspicion as many people on the admissions committee think you are 'jumping ship'.

Why were you under the impressions that applicants with a Ph.D. have such an advantage?

 

[Scottish Chap]

I think one of the issues here is that people assume applicants like the OP have never read literature regarding the statistics of a typical applicant to medical school. This is rarely the case as somebody motivated enough to apply to medical school usually knows that information before they post. Do they really need people on here to rub salt in the wounds by pointing out how much lower their GPA is compared to the average applicant? There is enough of that on the Pre-MD/DO forums, and we should know better as non-traditional students

I never really understood why some medical students and physicians seem to take pleasure in bringing down applicants on here who are generally posting in order to find some balanced encouragement. This (balanced encouragement) was something that made the non-traditional forum unique, but it's rare to find these days. It's one of the reasons why I rarely post on SDN now. Some people call it 'harsh reality' or 'constructive critisicm' when it may be nothing more than back-handed arrogance masquerading as helpful advice by fragile egos belonging to those who have gained admission.

 

[zebalong]

A Ph.D. means little with regard to medical school admissions - it's an interesting extracurricular activity. Ask anyone who applied with one and there are many; it's simpy not that impressive. It does not help and, if anything, you are treated with more suspicion as many people on the admissions committee think you are 'jumping ship'.

Why were you under the impressions that applicants with a Ph.D. have such an advantage?

I was under that impression for two reasons: 1. Used to work as a nurse with the Stanford programs and I knew a physician who helped with admissions - they clearly stated that a Ph.D brings an applicant a lot to their application - besides the advanced degree which you are right is just considered an interesting EC, although ECs are important, it is also the fact that you also have published work. It can be viewed that the applicant has proven they can contribue to their chosen speciality or as that the applicant has the dedication to excel in medical school. Many times a Ph.D has more research then people on the admissions committee - and in some regards takes more dedication to complete then an MD (longer years, less guarentee you will actually get the degree) which makes them view the applicant with a healthy dose of respect compared to a "everyday" applicant who has just the basics down.

2. I did my post-bac with a guy who had a Ph.D and he was clearly told during a few of his interviews that his Ph.D was very impressive - not only that, but during certain interviews he was actually paired up with someone who was in his field. He ended up getting into a school great school and definitely thought the research and the degree brought him quite an edge. It's not a free ticket but as far as competition goes it can give you an advantage from my perspective.

It seems though that what you get your PhD in could definitely matter. A guy who has been involved in medical bench research who states in his application that he wants to now transition to the bedside might be taken more seriously then a PhD in a social science or art? Just a thought.

 

[mmcintosh]

Well said Scottish Chap, Well said!!!! It seems that although the proof of a Non-trad acceptance with a Low GPA has been provided, the arrogance of those that barely gained acceptance is a still blinding their own eyes. So glad that none of these negative individuals can deter strong and determined students. My close friend was just accepted to TEMPLE UNIVERSITY MED. for 2012. Her GPA is 2.8 and her MCAT is 25.It was plainly told to her at the interview that "today we are interested in you because we invited you for an interview not a GPA or MCAT score......That coupled with the fact that she still has interviews with several other schools scheduled. I seriously doubt that any one can tell her that she is inadequate and her abilities are insufficient. Also Medical Schools welcome Non-trads and people that have more to offer than scores.

I think one of the issues here is that people assume applicants like the OP have never read literature regarding the statistics of a typical applicant to medical school. This is rarely the case as somebody motivated enough to apply to medical school usually knows that information before they post. Do they really need people on here to rub salt in the wounds by pointing out how much lower their GPA is compared to the average applicant? There is enough of that on the Pre-MD/DO forums, and we should know better as non-traditional students

I never really understood why some medical students and physicians seem to take pleasure in bringing down applicants on here who are generally posting in order to find some balanced encouragement. This (balanced encouragement) was something that made the non-traditional forum unique, but it's rare to find these days. It's one of the reasons why I rarely post on SDN now. Some people call it 'harsh reality' or 'constructive critisicm' when it may be nothing more than back-handed arrogance masquerading as helpful advice by fargile egos belonging to those who have gained admission.

 

[Nasrudin]

I think one of the issues here is that people assume applicants like the OP have never read literature regarding the statistics of a typical applicant to medical school. This is rarely the case as somebody motivated enough to apply to medical school usually knows that information before they post. Do they really need people on here to rub salt in the wounds by pointing out how much lower their GPA is compared to the average applicant? There is enough of that on the Pre-MD/DO forums, and we should know better as non-traditional students

I never really understood why some medical students and physicians seem to take pleasure in bringing down applicants on here who are generally posting in order to find some balanced encouragement. This (balanced encouragement) was something that made the non-traditional forum unique, but it's rare to find these days. It's one of the reasons why I rarely post on SDN now. Some people call it 'harsh reality' or 'constructive critisicm' when it may be nothing more than back-handed arrogance masquerading as helpful advice by fargile egos belonging to those who have gained admission.

I admire your position. And respect the intention. And if the other poster didn't comes off as such a fundamentalist I might be more inclined to reflect positively on his/her thoughts.

I am a low gpa success. I am doing just fine in med school.

I am also very humbled by the intensity of the academic achievement-oriented environment. And I do. Consider myself. Very lucky to have been given a seat. Among such talented and motivated people.

I struggled against doubt that echoed here powerfully. I turned back from the irresponsibility of wasting any more effort and money on it a dozen times.

Only keeping one's own counsel will sustain someone against the odds. And there are few if any places to turn for support.

And yet still. The odds maker's do their thing.

Nontraditional/schnontrational. This thing is competitive. You think it's happening in a vacuum. You think it's the same when we applied. Nonsense. Take a look around. The middle class is decimated. Medicine is gathering our likes in the thousands upon thousands. Each with powerful reasons and indications for success in medical school.

I don't envy the job of picking us from this hungry line outside the joint. Even if I've been more than brash in my criticism of medical educational establishment.

We have to assimilate facts at breakneck speed. It takes technique to do it without killing yourself. Some are good at it. Some are not. Whatever makes a good physician is secondary to survival, passing the Steps, and making it to the wards. There is never the former without the latter. One rung of the ladder at a time.

A 2.8 would give me doubts. And I wouldn't give a spot to such a one over a safer and equally interesting candidate. Without a torrent of persuasion.

I too cheer for the downtrodden. But not when I have reason to think they're walking into a pummeling.

The strongest ones of that lot. Will make it in spite of us. Not because of us. They're brawlers. Not handholders. After the brawling it took to get myself in. This **** is all down hill. Just showin up for work now. I can just pick enough power shots to get it done. And conserve my energy for the later rounds.

Thing is. You can't teach that. You sure as hell can't cheerlead it. It comes from being in the ring.

So let these guys in there. Too see what their made of. But don't count on a title shot for most. The world just isn't made like that. Even if it'd be groovy if it was.

 

[mmcintosh]

Do you respect the intention? Would you feel the same if your LOW GPA was ever paraded in front of you until you have absolutely no motivation to even try? The fact you said you were "a low gpa success" is appalling to me, because you allowed this type of negatively perpetuated nonsense to 'bully' others. It is apparent that you suffer from low self esteem as you so readily indicated in your post. However, all of us do not. Everyone knows and agrees that medical school is difficult (mostly because of the sheer massive volume of material) but as Scottish Chap has said, "IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE". Oh by the way I also have real examples close to me. My brother is an orthopedic surgeon and my cousin is a pediatrician.

I admire your position. And respect the intention. And if the other poster didn't comes off as such a fundamentalist I might be more inclined to reflect positively on his/her thoughts.

I am a low gpa success. I am doing just fine in med school.

I am also very humbled by the intensity of the academic achievement-oriented environment. And I do. Consider myself. Very lucky to have been given a seat. Among such talented and motivated people.

I struggled against doubt that echoed here powerfully. I turned back from the irresponsibility of wasting any more effort and money on it a dozen times.

Only keeping one's own counsel will sustain someone against the odds. And there are few if any places to turn for support.

And yet still. The odds maker's do their thing.

Nontraditional/schnontrational. This thing is competitive. You think it's happening in a vacuum. You think it's the same when we applied. Nonsense. Take a look around. The middle class is decimated. Medicine is gathering our likes in the thousands upon thousands. Each with powerful reasons and indications for success in medical school.

I don't envy the job of picking us from this hungry line outside the joint. Even if I've been more than brash in my criticism of medical educational establishment.

We have to assimilate facts at breakneck speed. It takes technique to do it without killing yourself. Some are good at it. Some are not. Whatever makes a good physician is secondary to survival, passing the Steps, and making it to the wards. There is never the former without the latter. One rung of the ladder at a time.

A 2.8 would give me doubts. And I wouldn't give a spot to such a one over a safer and equally interesting candidate. Without a torrent of persuasion.

I too cheer for the downtrodden. But not when I have reason to think they're walking into a pummeling.

The strongest ones of that lot. Will make it in spite of us. Not because of us. They're brawlers. Not handholders. After the brawling it took to get myself in. This **** is all down hill. Just showin up for work now. I can just pick enough power shots to get it done. And conserve my energy for the later rounds.

Thing is. You can't teach that. You sure as hell can't cheerlead it. It comes from being in the ring.

So let these guys in there. Too see what their made of. But don't count on a title shot for most. The world just isn't made like that. Even if it'd be groovy if it was.

 

[zebalong]

I reread my post, just to see if this flame war is justified and the other poster attacking me. While harsh with definitely no sugar coating, there is nothing inappropriate there. Call me a tiger mom, or a bitter old nurse I really don't care, but I was completely honest and straight with my opinion and advice. I didn't post anything inappropriate or not relavent to the OP's original post. I don't believe a 3.2 will be competitive enough for just applying to the 8 schools in texas - the DO school has an average of 3.5cgpa and I personally believe that gpa does matter once you are talking about extremes (<3.4) - I'm honest I think a 3.2 gives you a terrible (less then 20%) chance at admissions for most normal people. I do believe the OP needs to re-evaluate how he tackles classes - he is just about to graduate with his BSN this december - and it is in his BSN where he plainly stated in his own words that his grades in the nursing courses didn't help his gpa at all. And I can say for a fact, as someone who went through an accelerated 18 month BSN nursing program, that medical school is a completely different ball game and is a lot more intense/demanding.

Its harsh advice because it is a harsh situation - my school had a lot of post-bacs and we made about the national average: about 40-50% of us got in, about a 10% extra on their second try, the rest are out of luck for all their effort and hard work - and it sucks. There definitely was a pattern though- those of us with the higher gpa and mcat got in, it had nothing to do with who deserved what but when you are filtering through thousands of applications gpa and MCAT cut offs are a very real thing - especially in today's admissions. So to be competitive a person has to be real with themselves and learn what wasn't working for them and how they can change it.

As much as the other poster tries to make it like im saying the OP isn't good enough for medical school I never once attacked his character or intelligence. I believe his post-bac grades will be of supreme importance if he wants to prove that he can handle medical school in the eyes of admission committee's, and an excuse that the grade cut off was too high or the tests were unfair unfortunately doesn't count for anything even if it is completely true. The OP doesn't have much wiggle room if he plans to start a post-bac right after he graduates which by his post seems to be his plan.

I stand by my advice, if possible do fresh start - nail out a 4.0 in your post-bac to show you've changed and so that you can rock the MCAT. Apply nation wide and don't count on just the texas system - go in it knowing that many people with similiar stats don't get in so whatever the OP can do to get an edge - OP should do.

To the other poster, you do have my post history and my original posts haven't been edited recently im not hiding anything. If you think it is so wrong or inappropriate report my post, that is what the report button is for.

If the other poster would stop attacking me and for once post a direct quote of what he feels is so inappropriate or wrong that would be great so at least I can address something substantial. It seems all he/she just wants to start a huge flame war with his fanatical remarks. If you have anything personal or negative you want to tell my directly go ahead and send me a pm, hell, go ahead and start a new thread about how much the negativity of SDN is bad for the forum and I don't care if you name me specifically, but otherwise please keep your posts on topic.

 

[zebalong]

It is apparent that you suffer from low self esteem as you so readily indicated in your post. .

You blame everyone else for what they say and yet you don't quote anything besides a full long post- and then you post personal attacks like this? I don't know what you've experienced or why you are reacting like this but seriously you are stooping even lower then what you accuse others are doing - Nasrudin was just explaining his reasoning, something time and time again you fail to do.

 

[Nasrudin]

Do you respect the intention? Would you feel the same if your LOW GPA was ever paraded in front of you until you have absolutely no motivation to even try? The fact you said you were "a low gpa success" is appalling to me, because you allowed this type of negatively perpetuated nonsense to 'bully' others. It is apparent that you suffer from low self esteem as you so readily indicated in your post. However, all of us do not. Everyone knows and agrees that medical school is difficult (mostly because of the sheer massive volume of material) but as Scottish Chap has said, "IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE". Oh by the way I also have real examples close to me. My brother is an orthopedic surgeon and my cousin is a pediatrician.

Your punches are too slow and predictable to connect. You're still tasting my jab. I've done it. It's for you to do it. Shut me up. If you can.

In the words of the great Nick Diaz: "Stockton mf'er."

 

[mmcintosh]

I am quite on topic. You started the negative behavior and yet can't handle your own abuse. You cannot dominate this forum or any other with your deflections... It doesn't work. The OP can still be successful and YOU don't have the authority to control any one's entrance into Med School. This is a OPEN FORUM of discussion. You tried to knock him/her out in the beginning and was confronted immediately. Keep your negativity and opinions to yourself and just give the advice without bias if you are capable of separating the two.

I reread my post, just to see if this flame war is justified and the other poster attacking me. While harsh with definitely no sugar coating, there is nothing inappropriate there. Call me a tiger mom, or a bitter old nurse I really don't care, but I was completely honest and straight with my opinion and advice. I didn't post anything inappropriate or not relavent to the OP's original post. I don't believe a 3.2 will be competitive enough for just applying to the 8 schools in texas - the DO school has an average of 3.5cgpa and I personally believe that gpa does matter once you are talking about extremes (<3.4) - I'm honest I think a 3.2 gives you a terrible (less then 20%) chance at admissions for most normal people. I do believe the OP needs to re-evaluate how he tackles classes - he is just about to graduate with his BSN this december - and it is in his BSN where he plainly stated in his own words that his grades in the nursing courses didn't help his gpa at all. And I can say for a fact, as someone who went through an accelerated 18 month BSN nursing program, that medical school is a completely different ball game and is a lot more intense/demanding.

Its harsh advice because it is a harsh situation - my school had a lot of post-bacs and we made about the national average: about 40-50% of us got in, about a 10% extra on their second try, the rest are out of luck for all their effort and hard work - and it sucks. There definitely was a pattern though- those of us with the higher gpa and mcat got in, it had nothing to do with who deserved what but when you are filtering through thousands of applications gpa and MCAT cut offs are a very real thing - especially in today's admissions. So to be competitive a person has to be real with themselves and learn what wasn't working for them and how they can change it.

As much as the other poster tries to make it like im saying the OP isn't good enough for medical school I never once attacked his character or intelligence. I believe his post-bac grades will be of supreme importance if he wants to prove that he can handle medical school in the eyes of admission committee's, and an excuse that the grade cut off was too high or the tests were unfair unfortunately doesn't count for anything even if it is completely true. The OP doesn't have much wiggle room if he plans to start a post-bac right after he graduates which by his post seems to be his plan.

I stand by my advice, if possible do fresh start - nail out a 4.0 in your post-bac to show you've changed and so that you can rock the MCAT. Apply nation wide and don't count on just the texas system - go in it knowing that many people with similiar stats don't get in so whatever the OP can do to get an edge - OP should do.

To the other poster, you do have my post history and my original posts haven't been edited recently im not hiding anything. If you think it is so wrong or inappropriate report my post, that is what the report button is for.

If the other poster would stop attacking me and for once post a direct quote of what he feels is so inappropriate or wrong that would be great so at least I can address something substantial. It seems all he/she just wants to start a huge flame war with his fanatical remarks. If you have anything personal or negative you want to tell my directly go ahead and send me a pm, hell, go ahead and start a new thread about how much the negativity of SDN is bad for the forum and I don't care if you name me specifically, but otherwise please keep your posts on topic.

 

[mmcintosh]

Your punches are too slow and predictable to connect. You're still tasting my jab. I've done it. It's for you to do it. Shut me up. If you can.

In the words of the great Nick Diaz: "Stockton mf'er."

Poor thing, I'm playing a violin for you right now.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I think one of the issues here is that people assume applicants like the OP have never read literature regarding the statistics of a typical applicant to medical school. This is rarely the case as somebody motivated enough to apply to medical school usually knows that information before they post. Do they really need people on here to rub salt in the wounds by pointing out how much lower their GPA is compared to the average applicant? There is enough of that on the Pre-MD/DO forums, and we should know better as non-traditional students

I never really understood why some medical students and physicians seem to take pleasure in bringing down applicants on here who are generally posting in order to find some balanced encouragement. This (balanced encouragement) was something that made the non-traditional forum unique, but it's rare to find these days. It's one of the reasons why I rarely post on SDN now. Some people call it 'harsh reality' or 'constructive critisicm' when it may be nothing more than back-handed arrogance masquerading as helpful advice by fargile egos belonging to those who have gained admission.

LOL Your post reminds me of the south park episode where Mr. Mackey and Ms. Choksondik where teaching kids about the dangers of STDs and unprotected sex, but the moment it was their turn, they said "f-it" because human nature keeps us thinking we are the exception and we are invincible.

There really is no pleasure in telling someone that the cards are stacked against them. I sure as hell hope you didn't go into psychiatry.

 

[dmf2682]

Glad I found this thread. Kept me entertained for twenty minutes between cfd runs. Sdn and the underdog cheerleaders is great for staving off boredom at work. Thanks, nas, as always for the good read.

My only contribution to this thread is to say that rocket science is not super hard, but it is boring. As evidenced by the above. My undergrad had a similar grading system as the op, though I actually was a mechanical engineering major, lol. Looking forward to applying in a couple years. My advice: listen to the folks who seem more rational on this thread.

 

[Nasrudin]

Poor thing, I'm playing a violin for you right now.

g

You think I'm rough on you? I actually am hoping all of both your and the OP's wildest dreams come true.

What do you think your gonna get from people who are willing to laugh at you for thinking you're on their level.

You really should adopt the Nick Diaz lifestyle:

"Train all day. Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day!"

Cause both of you have only just a couple of moments of truth to turn the tide. You can't whine your way into preparation for those moments. Only by being a true ninja warrior. Hiding and waiting. Training and preparing. For your chance. To kill. Will you make to where I'm at.

Fun stuff.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I was under that impression for two reasons: 1. Used to work as a nurse with the Stanford programs and I knew a physician who helped with admissions - they clearly stated that a Ph.D brings an applicant a lot to their application - besides the advanced degree which you are right is just considered an interesting EC, although ECs are important, it is also the fact that you also have published work. It can be viewed that the applicant has proven they can contribue to their chosen speciality or as that the applicant has the dedication to excel in medical school. Many times a Ph.D has more research then people on the admissions committee - and in some regards takes more dedication to complete then an MD (longer years, less guarentee you will actually get the degree) which makes them view the applicant with a healthy dose of respect compared to a "everyday" applicant who has just the basics down.

2. I did my post-bac with a guy who had a Ph.D and he was clearly told during a few of his interviews that his Ph.D was very impressive - not only that, but during certain interviews he was actually paired up with someone who was in his field. He ended up getting into a school great school and definitely thought the research and the degree brought him quite an edge. It's not a free ticket but as far as competition goes it can give you an advantage from my perspective.

It seems though that what you get your PhD in could definitely matter. A guy who has been involved in medical bench research who states in his application that he wants to now transition to the bedside might be taken more seriously then a PhD in a social science or art? Just a thought.

I think in those situations, the Ph.D. augments the application but not does replace the basic requirement for presentable numerical data. For a research driven medical school like Stanford (which, as you know, has a scholarly requirement as part of the M.D. program), it makes sense that a Ph.D. applicant may be examined closely. Again, we're not that rare. However, for an applicant to win an interview at an institution the caliber of Stanford, they are providing an amazing GPA and MCAT......

 

[Scottish Chap]

LOL Your post reminds me of the south park episode where Mr. Mackey and Ms. Choksondik where teaching kids about the dangers of STDs and unprotected sex, but the moment it was their turn, they said "f-it" because human nature keeps us thinking we are the exception and we are invincible.

There really is no pleasure in telling someone that the cards are stacked against them. I sure as hell hope you didn't go into psychiatry.

This post makes absolutely no sense...at least to me. Please express your thoughts clearly and logically if you expect us to follow with a polite, meaningful discussion.

 

[Scottish Chap]

g

You think I'm rough on you? I actually am hoping all of both your and the OP's wildest dreams come true.

What do you think your gonna get from people who are willing to laugh at you for thinking you're on their level.

You really should adopt the Nick Diaz lifestyle:

"Train all day. Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day!"

Cause both of you have only just a couple of moments of truth to turn the tide. You can't whine your way into preparation for those moments. Only by being a true ninja warrior. Hiding and waiting. Training and preparing. For your chance. To kill. Will you make to where I'm at.

Fun stuff.

Nasrudin: love it!

 

[zebalong]

I think in those situations, the Ph.D. augments the application but not does replace the basic requirement for presentable numerical data. For a research driven medical school like Stanford (which, as you know, has a scholarly requirement as part of the M.D. program), it makes sense that a Ph.D. applicant may be examined closely. Again, we're not that rare. However, for an applicant to win an interview at an institution the caliber of Stanford, they are providing an amazing GPA and MCAT......

I completely agree. I would contend though that for most US medical schools there is also a GPA and MCAT numerical value that must be met for an applicant to be considered. While definitely not as high as say Stanford, Harvard, ect. most schools, unless the applicant has an extremely unique case, require a baseline GPA and MCAT before they look at your ECs, but if you can make the cut off then a PhD, some amazing leadership role, or other life changing experience can really tip the competition in your favor. Non-trads can shine in those areas but I feel for many their biggest challenge is making the cut offs.

 

[blue0rchid]

My close friend was just accepted to TEMPLE UNIVERSITY MED. for 2012. Her GPA is 2.8 and her MCAT is 25.It was plainly told to her at the interview that "today we are interested in you because we invited you for an interview not a GPA or MCAT score......

Your friend's case was an outlier, not the norm. Perhaps she had really great LORs and EC's, or her PS really absolutely explained why her GPA and MCAT were low. In her application somewhere showed the school that she can do it, but faced with obstacles she didn't get the high numbers that she deserved. Yes, it can be done, but each situation is unique and special in its own way.
For OP's case, unless he had a great story to explain why his grades weren't high enough, then he'll face a tough time getting in. Now, if he doesn't have a story to explain, then he will need to work on raising his GPA. I think zebalong had a legitimate question; perhaps not a question from him but a question that adcom will ask when looking over the application: low undergrad GPA, and didn't excel in nursing school (and I quote "nursing school had not helped my GPA by any mean"), how does OP prove to adcom that he can handle the workload of med school? A grade is a grade. An almost A but not quite an A is still a B. I doubt that adcom will look at the transcript and care about which grade OP almost made it to the next letter.

OP, I apologize to you for typing this post. I absolutely don't mean to pick on you or discourage you. I'm just debating with mmcintosh. For your situation, I believe you should go with the Fresh Start program. Please keep in mind that with this program, it's very important to keep your grades up for an upward trend. You know your situation best. This is an online forum so don't get too offended when people pick apart your case. That's exactly what's gonna happen to your application once you apply. The harsher it is, the more you're gonna be able to cover all the bases for your future application instead of hoping for a miracle. No one can dictate what you're gonna do with your life. So if you're absolutely determined to follow the path to become a doctor, believe in yourself, take in all advice/critiques, and try your best. Good luck.

 

[arkgal]

Your friend's case was an outlier, not the norm. Perhaps she had really great LORs and EC's, or her PS really absolutely explained why her GPA and MCAT were low. In her application somewhere showed the school that she can do it, but faced with obstacles she didn't get the high numbers that she deserved. Yes, it can be done, but each situation is unique and special in its own way.
For OP's case, unless he had a great story to explain why his grades weren't high enough, then he'll face a tough time getting in. Now, if he doesn't have a story to explain, then he will need to work on raising his GPA. I think zebalong had a legitimate question; perhaps not a question from him but a question that adcom will ask when looking over the application: low undergrad GPA, and didn't excel in nursing school (and I quote "nursing school had not helped my GPA by any mean"), how does OP prove to adcom that he can handle the workload of med school? A grade is a grade. An almost A but not quite an A is still a B. I doubt that adcom will look at the transcript and care about which grade OP almost made it to the next letter.

OP, I apologize to you for typing this post. I absolutely don't mean to pick on you or discourage you. I'm just debating with mmcintosh. For your situation, I believe you should go with the Fresh Start program. Please keep in mind that with this program, it's very important to keep your grades up for an upward trend. You know your situation best. This is an online forum so don't get too offended when people pick apart your case. That's exactly what's gonna happen to your application once you apply. The harsher it is, the more you're gonna be able to cover all the bases for your future application instead of hoping for a miracle. No one can dictate what you're gonna do with your life. So if you're absolutely determined to follow the path to become a doctor, believe in yourself, take in all advice/critiques, and try your best. Good luck.

Thanks for your encouragement. I know that satistically my chances aren't good. However, I believe that if I can work hard, get good grades, and show that I can handle the work, I will increase my chances. I would be remiss to never try. Before nursing school, I had thought about being a doctor, but never was really sure - never had the drive to do really well in classes or go beyond what was necessary. Now that I know for sure I want to be a physician, I'm going to have to change how I approach school. I'm doing well and have an A in the two classes I'm in now and I hope that trend continues. 4 weeks of nursing school left - and I have one job offer on a med/surg unit already. I'm told that most nursing managers around here will work with your schedule if you want to further your education. Maybe after a year or so, I will look to make the move to TX. I've already signed up full time at the state university here during the spring. I'mgoing to start by retaking some basic biology classes that I didn't do too well in. They off. er some of these online which will be helpful with my schedule. I also am going to start volunteering soon at a free medical clinic and an animal shelter so I will have those bases covered. And yes, I will apply broadly, even outside of Texas. After I retake the courses I've done poorly in, my GP for a DO school would actually be well above a 3.4.

And to mccintosh: while your intentions may be good, you are ultimately distracting from the intent of this thread and you aren't contributing anything but meaningless babble. Back off and find another thread to high jack. Your comments aren't welcome - they aren't constructive. I encourage everyone to not respond to his comments and keep feeding him.

 

[arkgal]

Thanks for your encouragement. I know that satistically my chances aren't good. However, I believe that if I can work hard, get good grades, and show that I can handle the work, I will increase my chances. I would be remiss to never try. Before nursing school, I had thought about being a doctor, but never was really sure - never had the drive to do really well in classes or go beyond what was necessary. Now that I know for sure I want to be a physician, I'm going to have to change how I approach school. I'm doing well and have an A in the two classes I'm in now and I hope that trend continues. 4 weeks of nursing school left - and I have one job offer on a med/surg unit already. I'm told that most nursing managers around here will work with your schedule if you want to further your education. Maybe after a year or so, I will look to make the move to TX. I've already signed up full time at the state university here during the spring. I'mgoing to start by retaking some basic biology classes that I didn't do too well in. They offer some of these online which will be helpful with my schedule. I also am going to start volunteering soon at a free medical clinic and an animal shelter so I will have those bases covered.

And to mccintosh: while your intentions may be good, you are ultimately distracting from the intent of this thread and you aren't contributing anything but meaningless babble. Back off and find another thread to high jack. Your comments aren't welcome - they aren't constructive. I encourage everyone to not respond to his comments and keep feeding him.

Perhaps after a couple of years of excelling in classes, when I do my personal statement, I could make mention of my realization that I wanted to be a physician and the resulting motivation to succeed in school? It doesn't explain the bad grades so much as explain why I suddenly started performing well in school....

 

[dmf2682]

Perhaps after a couple of years of excelling in classes, when I do my personal statement, I could make mention of my realization that I wanted to be a physician and the resulting motivation to succeed in school? It doesn't explain the bad grades so much as explain why I suddenly started performing well in school....

Lets hope it comes to pass. Work hard and good luck, op.

 

[zebalong]

Thanks for your encouragement. I know that satistically my chances aren't good. However, I believe that if I can work hard, get good grades, and show that I can handle the work, I will increase my chances. I would be remiss to never try. Before nursing school, I had thought about being a doctor, but never was really sure - never had the drive to do really well in classes or go beyond what was necessary. Now that I know for sure I want to be a physician, I'm going to have to change how I approach school. I'm doing well and have an A in the two classes I'm in now and I hope that trend continues. 4 weeks of nursing school left - and I have one job offer on a med/surg unit already. I'm told that most nursing managers around here will work with your schedule if you want to further your education. Maybe after a year or so, I will look to make the move to TX. I've already signed up full time at the state university here during the spring. I'mgoing to start by retaking some basic biology classes that I didn't do too well in. They off. er some of these online which will be helpful with my schedule. I also am going to start volunteering soon at a free medical clinic and an animal shelter so I will have those bases covered. And yes, I will apply broadly, even outside of Texas. After I retake the courses I've done poorly in, my GP for a DO school would actually be well above a 3.4.

And to mccintosh: while your intentions may be good, you are ultimately distracting from the intent of this thread and you aren't contributing anything but meaningless babble. Back off and find another thread to high jack. Your comments aren't welcome - they aren't constructive. I encourage everyone to not respond to his comments and keep feeding him.

Good luck and in the moment have fun as a nurse, honestly being a nurse was some of the best years of my life. It may seem like a long journey, it was for me at least, but I was pleasantly surprised how fast the time flies when you are just focusing on the next step - I wish you the same.