Need some help coming up with a school list

[Spinach Dip]

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Okay, so this is my second application cycle and I AM NOT going to go through a third.

40 MCAT (14/11/15)
3.4 undergrad GPA (at a state college you've never heard of) Major in Animal Biology.
3.1 graduate GPA (at OHSU) Major in Biochemistry. Yes, there is a good reason my GPA is so low; I had some health problems and had to be hospitalized a couple times in one term which absolutely tanked my GPA.

Oregon resident.

PS: will focus on some health issues I have been experiencing in the past years, which all came to a climax last December. These issues are the same reason my grad GPA is so low.



ECs to be listed on AMCAS: (should I remove any?)

-Shadowed an anesthesiologist
-Shadowed a lab animal veterinarian
-A publication in JAALAS (2nd author) (Journal for the American Association of Lab Animal Science)
-Did a poster presentation
-Did another poster presentation
-Spent a couple years in undergrad writing novels and short stories
-Did some PCR research
-Was an Ochem tutor for a year
-Produced a short video (2 mins) explaining the value of science to a grade-school audience
-Appeared in a couple university-produced educational videos
-Volunteered at a rescue for abandoned/neglected horses
-In my spare time (ha!), I play online chess through FICS. I think I'm nearing in on 2500 games



So...... Which schools (if any) would prefer a student with a stellar MCAT, but low GPA, who has more research experience, but less clinical experience, than the majority of applicants?

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Usually, these are down in the WAMC forum, @Spinach Dip . Awesome MCAT bro. I guess you're catching grief because of the low-ish GPAs. I'm still surprised you didn't get any love in your previous two cycles. Did you apply late?

What's your current school list? gyngyn, Catalystik, and Goro are well known for providing feedback for those.

 

[Goro]

I think we've been through this before, Spinach, and the pertinent question is: what VET schools should you be applying to? You appear to have done everything in your power to avoid any sort of clinical volunteering experience. Do you simply dislike being around sick people? That's the message your app is sending.

We know how this is going to end: rejection city. My students on our interview panel would eat you alive.

Okay, so this is my second application cycle and I AM NOT going to go through a third.

40 MCAT (14/11/15)
3.4 undergrad GPA (at a state college you've never heard of) Major in Animal Biology.
3.1 graduate GPA (at OHSU) Major in Biochemistry. Yes, there is a good reason my GPA is so low; I had some health problems and had to be hospitalized a couple times in one term which absolutely tanked my GPA.

Oregon resident.

PS: will focus on some health issues I have been experiencing in the past years, which all came to a climax last December. These issues are the same reason my grad GPA is so low.



ECs to be listed on AMCAS: (should I remove any?)

-Shadowed an anesthesiologist
-Shadowed a lab animal veterinarian
-A publication in JAALAS (2nd author) (Journal for the American Association of Lab Animal Science)
-Did a poster presentation
-Did another poster presentation
-Spent a couple years in undergrad writing novels and short stories
-Did some PCR research
-Was an Ochem tutor for a year
-Produced a short video (2 mins) explaining the value of science to a grade-school audience
-Appeared in a couple university-produced educational videos
-Volunteered at a rescue for abandoned/neglected horses
-In my spare time (ha!), I play online chess through FICS. I think I'm nearing in on 2500 games



So...... Which schools (if any) would prefer a student with a stellar MCAT, but low GPA, who has more research experience, but less clinical experience, than the majority of applicants?

 

[The Milkman]

I'm trying to figure out how you are a reapplicant with those ECs... I don't know what your last application looked like but it appears you did not do anything to make any improvements. If you don't want to go through a third cycle, maybe postpone your second cycle.

 

[gettheleadout]

Moving to WAMC.

 

[snowflakes]

Hey Spinach Dip! First off, I just wanted to say I'm really sorry to see you're a reapp this cycle, and wish you the best in your upcoming cycle! I've seen your incredibly detailed posts in the MCAT forum, and I know how much you've helped others improve their scores. I hope, in turn, you are able to get some helpful advice on your app here.

PS: will focus on some health issues I have been experiencing in the past years, which all came to a climax last December. These issues are the same reason my grad GPA is so low.

Actually, I don't know if this is the best approach to your PS, unless you're using the term "focus" loosely. I think your health issues can be mentioned and incorporated into your PS, but the focus should be much broader. Have you had anyone on SDN or anyone with experience in med school admissions critique it?

So...... Which schools (if any) would prefer a student with a stellar MCAT, but low GPA, who has more research experience, but less clinical experience, than the majority of applicants?

Hmm, top research schools (top 20ish) are going to be the ones, if any, that may be forgiving of more research exposure with less clinical experience. Unfortunately, skimming through the data, it seams that schools with the highest MCAT scores correlate pretty well to very high GPAs. Your stellar MCAT may be able to make up for your GPA, but only if the schools deem you have enough clinical experience.

However, like Goro, I do think your limited clinical experience is going to be an issue that the other strong parts of your app won't be able to overcome, even at research focused schools. Clinical experience needs to be twofold: shadowing to give you the perspective from the provider's POV, and some other experiences that put you in contact with patients directly. You have the shadowing, but shadowing does not make up for lack of patient-contact experiences, of which you currently do not seem to have.

What were the schools you applied to last year?

 

[Spinach Dip]

I think we've been through this before, Spinach, and the pertinent question is: what VET schools should you be applying to?

Maybe we have, but I dont remember the vet question coming up before. Maybe that's just my faulty memory.

You appear to have done everything in your power to avoid any sort of clinical volunteering experience. Do you simply dislike being around sick people? That's the message your app is sending.

I've said this before (i think)... I'm not going to go through absurd steps like volunteering in the local ED for 4 hours a week as a water-fetcher/bench-sitter solely to impress adcoms.

I'm going to be honest to myself above all, because as soon as a person starts lying to themselves they are on the fast track to believing or disbelieving anything which becomes convenient.

We know how this is going to end: rejection city. My students on our interview panel would eat you alive.

Perhaps Im made out to be a pathologist? An infectious disease expert? A researcher? A dermatologist?

It seems to me that rejecting someone with a decently strong app for a solitary reason like that is a pile of bulls##t.

 

[The Buff OP]

I'm sorry bro, but your application screams out vet school.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Hey Spinach Dip! First off, I just wanted to say I'm really sorry to see you're a reapp this cycle, and wish you the best in your upcoming cycle! I've seen your incredibly detailed posts in the MCAT forum, and I know how much you've helped others improve their scores. I hope, in turn, you are able to get some helpful advice on your app here.

<3

Glad to know I've made a positive impression on someone.

Clinical experience needs to be twofold: shadowing to give you the perspective from the provider's POV, and some other experiences that put you in contact with patients directly. You have the shadowing, but shadowing does not make up for lack of patient-contact experiences, of which you currently do not seem to have.

The shadowing I did was 90% in the OR. How is that counted?

Also, I have spent hundreds of hours on the other side of the IV, having doctors puzzle over what's wrong and suggest yet another round of bloodwork (as if this one will be any different than the previous 29). Does that count for nothing?

 

[Spinach Dip]

I'm sorry bro, but your application screams out vet school.

-Shadowed a lab animal veterinarian
-A publication in JAALAS (2nd author) (Journal for the American Association of Lab Animal Science)
-Volunteered at a rescue for abandoned/neglected horses


I assume it has something to do with these 3, right?

If I remove the horse rescue from the list, does that make things look better? (The other two are tied together and can't really be removed from the list.)

 

[The Buff OP]

-Shadowed a lab animal veterinarian
-A publication in JAALAS (2nd author) (Journal for the American Association of Lab Animal Science)
-Volunteered at a rescue for abandoned/neglected horses


I assume it has something to do with these 3, right?

If I remove the horse rescue from the list, does that make things look better? (The other two are tied together and can't really be removed from the list.)

Were you trying to go to vet school first? I can't answer the other questions, it's late over here I'm about to logout and get my beauty sleep. 😛

 

[Spinach Dip]

Were you trying to go to vet school first?

I was going back and forth between DVM and MD for a couple years (all the prereqs are the same, so I didnt have to decide at first!). However, after a couple experiences which I go into in depth in my PS, I decided I had to use my talents to help people... rather than their pets.

 

[The Buff OP]

I was going back and forth between DVM and MD for a couple years (all the prereqs are the same, so I didnt have to decide at first!). However, after a couple experiences which I go into in depth in my PS, I decided I had to use my talents to help people... rather than their pets.

I would do another gap year and do some real soul searching. With that gap year improve your Ec's. Usually applicants have 100+ hospital volunteer hours, shadowed more than 3 specialties (make sure you get a primary care physician in there), LOR's from physicians, and anything that has to do with human contact lol.

 

[snowflakes]

Also, I have spent hundreds of hours on the other side of the IV, having doctors puzzle over what's wrong and suggest yet another round of bloodwork (as if this one will be any different than the previous 29). Does that count for nothing?

It does not count for nothing, but nor will it replace patient contact. Having been sick yourself does not prove you would like working with sick people.

 

[snowflakes]

I've said this before (i think)... I'm not going to go through absurd steps like volunteering in the local ED for 4 hours a week as a water-fetcher/bench-sitter solely to impress adcoms.

I'm going to be honest to myself above all, because as soon as a person starts lying to themselves they are on the fast track to believing or disbelieving anything which becomes convenient.

Not all clinical volunteering is "absurd" or consists of fetching water/bench sitting. Hunt out something that you find meaningful! For example, find a mentorship program where you do activities with children with long-term illnesses. Or look at volunteering at a nursing home, where you can help lead group activities for the residents, or just spend time talking to them one on one--a lot of them have wonderful stories to share, and are incredibly lonely. Look at hospice volunteering. Some hospice programs do memorial-type projects where volunteers chronicle patients' autobiographies. Focus on volunteering at a facility that serves lower-income patients. In my experience, I found that at these types of facilities, the work I did really did have a significant impact and was therefore really rewarding.

Or if you don't to want volunteer, get some sort of basic certification (CNA, phlebotomy, EMT, etc) and get paid employment. Clinical exposure doesn't have to be volunteering--paid work experience counts too as long as you're working directly with patients.

 

[Person0715]

I think you need more meaningful clinical experience. You don't need to be a hospital volunteer, but you need to show that you have the patience and compassion to work with sick people. When I first read your activities, the first thing that came to my mind was vet school. I think a big part of that is the lack of clinical things. One shadowing experience is not going to cut it.

 

[Goro]

No, you'll be rejected because there are tons of applicants who dearly wish to be a doctor and do what's necessary, not what's merely convenient. Being a doctor is a privilege, not merely a reward for being smart or being a good student.

You have displayed no inkling of what you're getting into, nor any altruism or humanity. And if I saw an app where someone said "I know what a career in Medicine is like, because I was a patient", I'd rip it up and send the pieces back to the Admissions Dean.

Start making a plan B.

Go look up LizzyM's comments to your last go around. And if you're meant to be researcher, you can get a PhD.

Maybe we have, but I dont remember the vet question coming up before. Maybe that's just my faulty memory.





I've said this before (i think)... I'm not going to go through absurd steps like volunteering in the local ED for 4 hours a week as a water-fetcher/bench-sitter solely to impress adcoms.

I'm going to be honest to myself above all, because as soon as a person starts lying to themselves they are on the fast track to believing or disbelieving anything which becomes convenient.





Perhaps Im made out to be a pathologist? An infectious disease expert? A researcher? A dermatologist?

It seems to me that rejecting someone with a decently strong app for a solitary reason like that is a pile of bulls##t.

 

[el_duderino]

I've said this before (i think)... I'm not going to go through absurd steps like volunteering in the local ED for 4 hours a week as a water-fetcher/bench-sitter solely to impress adcoms.

The fact that you feel that such menial tasks as volunteering at the ED are beneath you says a lot.

 

[Person0715]

I've said this before (i think)... I'm not going to go through absurd steps like volunteering in the local ED for 4 hours a week as a water-fetcher/bench-sitter solely to impress adcoms.

In the first place, hospital volunteering will not impress anyone. It's more of an unwritten requirement.

 

[CW 2010]

I'm not going to go through absurd steps like volunteering in the local ED for 4 hours a week as a water-fetcher/bench-sitter solely to impress adcoms.

You gotta jump through the hoops, man...

 

[The Buff OP]

Now Spinach, you should take our advice and hopefully you will end up in the right path. In the words of Mark Hanna, "This is not a tip, this is a prescription. Trust me. If you don't, you will fall out of balance. Glitch your differential and the tip f*** over. Or worse yet, I've seen this happen, implode."

 

[IncognitoGuy]

Maybe we have, but I dont remember the vet question coming up before. Maybe that's just my faulty memory.





I've said this before (i think)... I'm not going to go through absurd steps like volunteering in the local ED for 4 hours a week as a water-fetcher/bench-sitter solely to impress adcoms.

I'm going to be honest to myself above all, because as soon as a person starts lying to themselves they are on the fast track to believing or disbelieving anything which becomes convenient.





Perhaps Im made out to be a pathologist? An infectious disease expert? A researcher? A dermatologist?

It seems to me that rejecting someone with a decently strong app for a solitary reason like that is a pile of bulls##t.

Goro said clinical experience. For some, that's doing what you said. For others, it's working as a scribe, CNA, PCA, etc. etc.

The point isn't to impress adcoms. They've seen Rhodes Scholars, people who win national and international awards, Olympic athletes - I remember LizzyM saying one of her more memorable applicants was a Marine. You're not going to "impress" anybody by spending a few hours a week in the ED when there are others who excel like this.

It's meant to show you know what you're getting yourself into. Being a patient will give you some insight, but other than shadowing, you haven't elucidated how you as a person interact with patients or what you've gotten out of that eventual experience. Schools are going to invest time and resources in you, and if you haven't shown an inkling of knowing what it's like to work independently with patients on any level, how can a school (who knows very little about you other than your application) take that chance?

 

[shopsteward]

I was wondering whether or not to pile in, but as everyone else has, I thought I might as well.

I hope that wonderful MCAT will still be valid for your final attempt at getting into med school, which you will make next year.

Currently, I'm looking at someone whose long-term passion is to become a vet but who has taken fright at the pay and decided to switch to doctoring humans instead. Having been ill yourself (sorry to hear about that, hope you are better) doesn't qualify you to get into med school: just counting up the number of sick people against the number of doctors should tell you that.

I think your line of attack should be: when I was young and foolish, I thought I wanted to be a vet. When I was sick I started to understand the importance of the awesome work that doctors do, and all the experiences I have had since (a year's worth of clinical volunteering and some extra shadowing) have confirmed for me that helping other people is the right route for me to take. I still like animals, but they are my hobby not my vocation.

Good luck with next year's cycle.

 

[NervousNerd]

Attaining a clinical job was the best decision I made. I truly believe it has shown me what medicine really is like, not even close to what I thought.

I suggest finding some type of medical work. Scribe for a year, CNA, or even a tech position in a hospital. A one year commitment to this would provide your beautiful stats with the support they require.

 

[Spinach Dip]

You have displayed no inkling of what you're getting into, nor any altruism or humanity. And if I saw an app where someone said "I know what a career in Medicine is like, because I was a patient", I'd rip it up and send the pieces back to the Admissions Dean.

LOL. My point was more along the lines of "I've been through some sh#t, and it has shaped me as a person. I know what it's like to be on the other side of the anesthesia mask".



Also, I have a lead on a great clinical opportunity (Goro knows what I mean!). If we simply remove that from the equation, and I apply July 1 (I have to wait a little for my MS transcript to be final....) can we start talking about schools?

 

[Zelda840]

I have no advice (I'm a reapplicant this year too, so obviously I haven't figured it all out myself), but wanted to say CONGRATS on the killer mcat score!!!