need some MPH advice

[wanderlustin]

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seen some other posts on this, but it's been a couple years.....

i've always been interested in health policy, prevention, and administration in the US as well as globally, and just recently i've been seriously considering starting a 1 yr MPH program in the fall, between 3rd and 4th years. how would programs view taking a year off to get an MPH? is it applicable in EM? would it help or hurt my cause when i apply for residency? i'm very interested in programs that have a global health focus.

i want to get the MPH now as opposed to later (like in a combined residency/MPH program or after residency) because i think it would help form my practice and direction as a doctor and my understanding of healthcare.

 

[DrVanNostran]

MPH in Disaster Management is a decent option.

 

[roja]

getting an mph between 3rd and fourth year is a great idea. programs do not look down on this and many schools this is quite common. if its something you love, and you can take the year, I say go for it.

 

[Choreoathetoid]

Great question.

I don't know of EM programs in any capacity "looking down" upon this; quite the opposite actually: getting an MPH makes you appear more academic, open's more roles down the road in your career for NGO work, management, academic, global health (most EM global health fellowships have an MPH built in), etc. If you review the literature, there is a growing trend for the fusion of public health in the ED setting regarding screening and prevention.

Having done an MPH, I'll be honest: compared to an MD (not a fair comparison of course), the degree itself didn't really meet my expectations. I feel it is very similar to an MBA: you get the letters to open up doors down the road for how you wish to ultimately use it. For me, I want to incorporate public health in my practice, get involved in prevention campaigns in my community, promote public health in the ED, and do international missionary work, for which an understanding of population health and epidemiology is extremely useful.

When I toured the circuit, programs really looked favorably upon the Masters, probably because it makes them look good to have a resident with two degrees.

I'd also consider doing an MPH abroad as well. Gives you both the letters, a more international experience with classmates, and an opportunity to live in a different country 🙂

PM me if you had any other questions!

 

[in1Q84]

If you do fellowship after residency, many come with MPH. Waiting to do it until then may save you some $$$ down the line.

 

[dotcb]

i did an MPH during med school - and i'd recommend against it.

pros:
i was more productive in research as a resident as a result
the degree looks good
it is easy
there's no question i got my job because of the dual degree and research productivity as a resident

cons:
better to do as a fellow and get paid to do it
post-residency, what you learn will be relevant to how you want to use it, because you'll forget everything you learned while being a worker bee as a resident
later = better able to tailor it toward your needs

i didn't lose any time doing it, so for me there was little downside, but for med students who are considering this - i recommend against it, unless you're unsure of what field to go into or need to kill a year to couples match or something,

 

[Arcan57]

i did an MPH during med school - and i'd recommend against it.

pros:
i was more productive in research as a resident as a result
the degree looks good
it is easy
there's no question i got my job because of the dual degree and research productivity as a resident

cons:
better to do as a fellow and get paid to do it
post-residency, what you learn will be relevant to how you want to use it, because you'll forget everything you learned while being a worker bee as a resident
later = better able to tailor it toward your needs

i didn't lose any time doing it, so for me there was little downside, but for med students who are considering this - i recommend against it, unless you're unsure of what field to go into or need to kill a year to couples match or something,

This is the truth. Even if you get a full scholarship during med school to do an MPH then you'll still be losing money on living expenses and loan interest. An MPH is almost laughably easy, and would allow for plenty of time to moonlight thus mitigating the lost attending income. I did an MPH in order to let my wife catch up, so it worked out for me. But without that issue, doing it as part of a fellowship would be the ideal choice.

 

[wanderlustin]

This is the truth. Even if you get a full scholarship during med school to do an MPH then you'll still be losing money on living expenses and loan interest. An MPH is almost laughably easy, and would allow for plenty of time to moonlight thus mitigating the lost attending income. I did an MPH in order to let my wife catch up, so it worked out for me. But without that issue, doing it as part of a fellowship would be the ideal choice.

if i got an MPH as part of a fellowship, do you think the education would be equivalent to getting it now at a highly-regarded program like tulane or emory? i've also been told that the MPH is a great talking point in interviews and might help me stand out to PD's. this is coming from a student with a below average board score and honors on all 3rd year clerkships. i just think that getting an MPH will help define myself and my future goals while showing a serious interest in public and/or global health.

 

[logos]

This is the truth. Even if you get a full scholarship during med school to do an MPH then you'll still be losing money on living expenses and loan interest. An MPH is almost laughably easy, and would allow for plenty of time to moonlight thus mitigating the lost attending income. I did an MPH in order to let my wife catch up, so it worked out for me. But without that issue, doing it as part of a fellowship would be the ideal choice.

I did exactly the same thing. I did an MPH between 3rd and 4th year to let my fiancee catch up so that we could couples match. Even though the NIH footed the bill including a small stipend, I will still loose money in the deal as loans continue to accumulate interest.

While I don't think the MPH was looked upon negatively, I don't think that it was the major positive that I was hoping that it would be during the application cycle. Perhaps I'm a bit colored by the fact that we were couples matching, but I did not get the interviews I was expecting with MPH + big step 1 score (all average clinicals though).

The MPH is generally not difficulty and certainly it helps when thinking about study design in the future, however, I think I have forgotten quite a lot of the details already. Its essentially a degree in basic statistics. I was ok with the statistics, but did not enjoy the required fluff courses "health behavior health promotion", "environmental health", etc. These were college freshman level at best and huge waste of time.

I agree that doing it as part of a fellowship is better. Better pay. More relevant as you can use your fellowship research towards satisfying the research requirement. You can likely moonlight. Downside to that will be that the bull**** courses are only going to become more and more frustrating.

 

[iridesingltrack]

if i got an MPH as part of a fellowship, do you think the education would be equivalent to getting it now at a highly-regarded program like tulane or emory? i've also been told that the MPH is a great talking point in interviews and might help me stand out to PD's. this is coming from a student with a below average board score and honors on all 3rd year clerkships. i just think that getting an MPH will help define myself and my future goals while showing a serious interest in public and/or global health.

I did my MPH before going to med school and I re-enforced my education by working for a few years in my field. However, even after being an epidemiologist for 3 years I still feel like I've forgotten most of what I learned. I think I could pick most of it back up though...I think...

Tulane and Emory have great programs but you may be able to do a fellowship at one of these institutions as well. Regardless, if you want to do it now, cool go for it. If you want to complete your medical education then return to it, that is cool too. Both have their pluses and minuses.

I would caution you against getting your MPH to make yourself more competitive during the residency application process. I don't think it will help too much. If you want people to know you are serious about global health go abroad and do some EM/public health work. I suspect a lot of people would talk to you about that experience.

FWIW, I have an MPH from one of the programs you listed and during my interviews no one ever talked to me about my MPH itself. They all talked to me about what I had actually done...not the degree.

Good luck,
iride

 

[DeadCactus]

Isn't there a benefit to getting the education and degree earlier in terms of incorporating your interests into the rest of your training? You're given a year to get the momentum going on that part of your career and hopefully would be able to carry part of it into residency.

It just seems like any other investment: the sooner you get it going, the sooner the dividends add up to something. (Granted you're sacrificing a financial investment to do so.)

And while it may not be a huge plus for applications at all places, I would think it would be a big plus at the kind of institutions that fit well with your career goals. Even more so if the institution you do your MPH at has a residency well suited toward your goals. I would think a year of networking would offer a lot of advantages...

Edit:
Also, am I mistaken or is an MPH not a time to add significantly to the list of things you have done? Letters alone rarely matter much, but isn't the year you spend on an MPH the time to get a few publications and actual projects under your belt? Or am I expecting too much from these programs.

 

[logos]

Also, am I mistaken or is an MPH not a time to add significantly to the list of things you have done? Letters alone rarely matter much, but isn't the year you spend on an MPH the time to get a few publications and actual projects under your belt? Or am I expecting too much from these programs.

To be honest with you, I didn't get much done during my MPH. I had wanted to get lots of things done but didn't end up doing that much. Frankly, the classes, as inane as they often are, ended up taking way more time than I had imagined. I had thought that I would spend my fellowship maybe 80% research and 20% classes. It ended up being about the opposite.

Also, to be fair, public health is not my real interest. I respect the value of statistics and the biostats part of the MPH but I would have been happier just doing a research year in the lab. The MPH curriculum wastes lots of time on things that just are not relevant to doctors like environmental health and "health education" which public health code for "smoking is bad".

Its another thing to list behind your name, but to tell the truth even that doesn't come off that great as many people use it as an alternative to the Caribbean schools for trying to get into medical school. I'm only an intern but to date I have never included it on anything that asks for my title, I just put MD.