Need to decide today: UCSD MSTP or Cornell Tri-I MSTP

[neuronerd94]

Hi everyone!

Im in a little bit of a bind as I got off of the waitlist at Cornell and am unsure about which school I should attend between UCSD MSTP and Cornell Tri-I MSTP. I think the hardest part for me is deciding whether I should be weighing the clinical excellence or research excellence more? which one is more important for getting a good residence and for my future success? I have to decide by tonight, but am trying to get an extension. Any input or advice would be super helpful.

About me- Native Californian living across the country/world for the last 5 years. I came into this process wanting to be back in California. My main interests are in Neuroscience and Im pretty sure Im going to stay in this area. But, at the same time, I have very strong interests in immunology and stem cell biology that I havent had a chance to explore in an academic setting. I definitely want to be a true physician-scientist working about 70% of my time in the lab and 30% in the clinic. At this point, I hope to go into neurology so that I can work in a specialty clinic focused on Alzheimer's, ALS, or maybe MS (obviously I have a while to figure this part out 😛 ).

UCSD MSTP
+ Neuroscience, Neuroscience, Neuroscience! So many amazing and mind blowing people and opportunities in neuroscience at UCSD!
+ Possibility to do PhD at Salk or Scripps
+ Warm weather
+ Close to my family (who I admittedly really miss)
+ Much cheaper than NYC (especially with the highly subsidized graduate housing)
+ Very collaborative atmosphere in the sciences
+/- Have to have a car... I like the idea of having a car again and being able to easily take short excursions when I'm free, but I wish I wouldn't have to use it to just simply get groceries
- Clinical system is mostly regional - won't see any international cases coming to Jacobs Hospital with LA so close
- A city, but a beach city, so there isn't as much to do as I would have hoped (I'm more of a San Francisco/DC person myself)
- But in reality, UCSD is in La Jolla which is a more suburban, posh area of San Diego. Its great for settling down, but I'm not at that point in my life yet
- Not as strong in areas of research outside of neuroscience (?)
- Less prestige than the Cornell Tri-I program in terms of clinical/residency opinions

Cornell Tri-I MSTP
+ New York City; I'm obsessed with theater and trying new, random things so what better place to be! Also, NYC in my 20's is probably the best time to be there. Also, there are so many conferences and speakers in NYC every year and I have varied interests (public health, international policy, etc) so being able to attend cool events in different disciplines would be awesome.
+ Amazing clinical training at NYP and MSK (how much better the clinical side is than UCSD, I'm not sure, but I would guess it is significant)
+ The program has been around longer and the Director, Olaf, seems much more directly involved in student's experiences at Cornell --> great advising
+ PhD at the Rockefeller University (I'm not sure what its reputation in neuroscience is, however)
+ Good general reputation in the sciences especially because of association with Rockefeller and MSK
+ Amazing public transportation both in the city and across the eastern seaboard
- Cold weather (mild concern since I've been putting up with it for the last 5 years)
- Far away from family -- it feels sad to not be able to attend my mom's birthdays for the next 8 years
- Definitely not as strong in neuroscience as UCSD
- More expensive that UCSD
- I feel like NYC might almost be too dirty/crowded for me... I've lived in an international city for a year now that is much better kept than NYC (so to speak) and I definitely think that is part of the reason I like living in this city so much

Thanks for reading this and for any input you might have!

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[neuronerd94]

@Fencer @Neuronix

I have read both of your advice on other posts and was wondering if you could speak to any differences in clinical prestige between UCSD and Cornell? will it be harder to match back in California if I attend Cornell as compared to if I attend UCSD? I know you can't tell me whether I will like NYC better than La Jolla, but your advise as physician-scientists on the clinical side of things would be very helpful! 🙂

 

[eteshoe]

Unless you're planning on staying for residency as well, the programs are solid enough that you should really be evaluating which place has 3-6 PIs you could realistically see yourself working with as well as which city you could realistically put up with for the next 8-10 yrs.

 

[gbwillner]

UCLA

Based on your own reasoning. Science >>> Clinical training when considering MSTP. Being a graduate of either program will be great for getting a research-track/oriented residency, and the name of both institutions is good.

 

[ucbundergrad]

As a medical student you will be have 100-200 very awesome classmates who you will mostly be spending time with, not to mention all the other students. I don't think you will have lack of fun in either place. Prestige-wise I think its a wash, but maybe insight from Fencer or someone more senior than myself would be more relevant here.

Are there any differences in the school like average step score, clinics before step 1, P/F curriculum?

At the end you will probably just end up needing to compare living in NY (the + and -) with being away from family.

 

[neuronerd94]

Unless you're planning on staying for residency as well, the programs are solid enough that you should really be evaluating which place has 3-6 PIs you could realistically see yourself working with as well as which city you could realistically put up with for the next 8-10 yrs.

I'm probably not planning on staying for residency at either location... and I definitely am more excited by the science at UCSD, but there are also 6 really great PIs I can see myself working with at Cornell. I guess what I'm saying is that the neuroscience is amazing at both places, just more amazing at UCSD. City wise, I would assume that NYC would be better for my early 20s while I'd prefer La Jolla for my late 20s... definitely like the culture in NYC better than La Jolla.

Since the science is essentially a wash, would you agree with ucbundergrad that I should be deciding between living in NYC and staying close to family? That's kinda how I'm feeling about my decision right now.

 

[neuronerd94]

UCLA

Based on your own reasoning. Science >>> Clinical training when considering MSTP. Being a graduate of either program will be great for getting a research-track/oriented residency, and the name of both institutions is good.

did you mean UCSD? I'm not sure if UCSD is the same as UCLA in regard to your statement regarding being equally prepared for residency, so I just wanted to clarify! Thanks for providing your opinion 🙂

 

[Natural_Obsessions]

If you wanted to try out stem cell biology/ immunology, Rockefeller+MSKCC prob better bet than UCSD. However, that does not seem like the biggest factor in your decision.

 

[gbwillner]

did you mean UCSD? I'm not sure if UCSD is the same as UCLA in regard to your statement regarding being equally prepared for residency, so I just wanted to clarify! Thanks for providing your opinion 🙂

Apparently I misread your options. Still, UCSD is a quality program, even if not at the same level as UCLA. While I agree that the Cornell has a better reputation, the quality of your scientific training is more important, especially if you even want to survive training.

 

[neuronerd94]

If you wanted to try out stem cell biology/ immunology, Rockefeller+MSKCC prob better bet than UCSD. However, that does not seem like the biggest factor in your decision.

Ya, I definitely feel pretty set on Neuro, but I would hate to be in that 20-30% of MD/PhDs that change their research field and then end up not in neuro at a neuro school.. I guess you cant really plan for those events in life though :/

Apparently I misread your options. Still, UCSD is a quality program, even if not at the same level as UCLA. While I agree that the Cornell has a better reputation, the quality of your scientific training is more important, especially if you even want to survive training.

So then, in regard to neuroscience specifically, you would definitely place UCSD/Salk/Scripps above Cornell/Rockefeller/MSK? Also, would you say that UCSD has a good enough reputation to not hold me back from any residency options? My biggest fear is that I ended up wanting to do a more competitive specialty (for some weird reason) and I end up not being able to match in as good of a program because I came from UCSD and not a place like Cornell?

 

[iamturtles]

Hi everyone!

Im in a little bit of a bind as I got off of the waitlist at Cornell and am unsure about which school I should attend between UCSD MSTP and Cornell Tri-I MSTP. I think the hardest part for me is deciding whether I should be weighing the clinical excellence or research excellence more? which one is more important for getting a good residence and for my future success? I have to decide by tonight, but am trying to get an extension. Any input or advice would be super helpful.

About me- Native Californian living across the country/world for the last 5 years. I came into this process wanting to be back in California. My main interests are in Neuroscience and Im pretty sure Im going to stay in this area. But, at the same time, I have very strong interests in immunology and stem cell biology that I havent had a chance to explore in an academic setting. I definitely want to be a true physician-scientist working about 70% of my time in the lab and 30% in the clinic. At this point, I hope to go into neurology so that I can work in a specialty clinic focused on Alzheimer's, ALS, or maybe MS (obviously I have a while to figure this part out 😛 ).

UCSD MSTP
+ Neuroscience, Neuroscience, Neuroscience! So many amazing and mind blowing people and opportunities in neuroscience at UCSD!
+ Possibility to do PhD at Salk or Scripps
+ Warm weather
+ Close to my family (who I admittedly really miss)
+ Much cheaper than NYC (especially with the highly subsidized graduate housing)
+ Very collaborative atmosphere in the sciences
+/- Have to have a car... I like the idea of having a car again and being able to easily take short excursions when I'm free, but I wish I wouldn't have to use it to just simply get groceries
- Clinical system is mostly regional - won't see any international cases coming to Jacobs Hospital with LA so close
- A city, but a beach city, so there isn't as much to do as I would have hoped (I'm more of a San Francisco/DC person myself)
- But in reality, UCSD is in La Jolla which is a more suburban, posh area of San Diego. Its great for settling down, but I'm not at that point in my life yet
- Not as strong in areas of research outside of neuroscience (?)
- Less prestige than the Cornell Tri-I program in terms of clinical/residency opinions

Cornell Tri-I MSTP
+ New York City; I'm obsessed with theater and trying new, random things so what better place to be! Also, NYC in my 20's is probably the best time to be there. Also, there are so many conferences and speakers in NYC every year and I have varied interests (public health, international policy, etc) so being able to attend cool events in different disciplines would be awesome.
+ Amazing clinical training at NYP and MSK (how much better the clinical side is than UCSD, I'm not sure, but I would guess it is significant)
+ The program has been around longer and the Director, Olaf, seems much more directly involved in student's experiences at Cornell --> great advising
+ PhD at the Rockefeller University (I'm not sure what its reputation in neuroscience is, however)
+ Good general reputation in the sciences especially because of association with Rockefeller and MSK
+ Amazing public transportation both in the city and across the eastern seaboard
- Cold weather (mild concern since I've been putting up with it for the last 5 years)
- Far away from family -- it feels sad to not be able to attend my mom's birthdays for the next 8 years
- Definitely not as strong in neuroscience as UCSD
- More expensive that UCSD
- I feel like NYC might almost be too dirty/crowded for me... I've lived in an international city for a year now that is much better kept than NYC (so to speak) and I definitely think that is part of the reason I like living in this city so much

Thanks for reading this and for any input you might have!

Used to be systems neuroscience but a few years out so my info might be outdated if pis moved. I was of the impression that aside from Harvard and Stanford, Rockefeller has some of the most phenomenal neuroscientists. Weaker in stem cell biology(literally maybe only two pis) and a few rockstars in immunology.

If you want to explore immunology further, your really can't go wrong with mskcc. But as previous posters have said I would carefully look at the pis that you could potentially see yourself working with and go based on that

 

[iamturtles]

Ya, I definitely feel pretty set on Neuro, but I would hate to be in that 20-30% of MD/PhDs that change their research field and then end up not in neuro at a neuro school.. I guess you cant really plan for those events in life though :/

Having trained at one of these programs I can tell you that the frequency of people training in labs outside of their intended field feels much higher than just 20-30% FYI

 

[neuronerd94]

Used to be systems neuroscience but a few years out so my info might be outdated if pis moved. I was of the impression that aside from Harvard and Stanford, Rockefeller has some of the most phenomenal neuroscientists. Weaker in stem cell biology(literally maybe only two pis) and a few rockstars in immunology.

If you want to explore immunology further, your really can't go wrong with mskcc. But as previous posters have said I would carefully look at the pis that you could potentially see yourself working with and go based on that

Definitely the few rockstars in immunology! But in the neurosciences very few, maybe only 1 or 2, of their neuroscientists are working directly on neurodegenerative disease mechanism. I am also interested in glial cell biology and only 1 person at Salk and 1 person at Rockefeller work on that. The neuroscience at Rockefeller is definitely strong, just not especially in the area I was hoping to be in. At the same time, I feel like my PhD should be more about learning techniques and how to critically think about research, and less about the exact niche subject I am researching.

Based on you recommendation of looking at PIs, I definitely feel more inclined to go to UCSD since I have been so strongly based in neuroscience/neurodegenerative disease for the last 3.5 years (and I love it!). Still I am one of those people that get's excited by really awesome and novel discoveries in other fields, so my area of interest could definitely change in the future! Since I can only know what I am thinking in the moment, however, UCSD is the better research fit for me.

Also, I will add that two Nobel Prize winning neuroscientists both told me I should go to UCSD for neuroscience over WashU and Emory (this question was asked before I got into Cornell so it wasn't part of the options)

 

[neuronerd94]

Having trained at one of these programs I can tell you that the frequency of people training in labs outside of their intended field feels much higher than just 20-30% FYI

Well, that is good to know! At UCSD's second look people tended to stay in the research area they entered the program interested in but I think that is because there are so many people who come in doing neuro and it would be odd to change at a school that is so strong in neuro. No idea what that stat is like at Cornell since I didnt attend second look...

 

[Neuronix]

I still think you should go to UCLA

If you love California and want to stay in California, this is a no brainer, go to UCSD. It's going to be much harder to get back for residency or other future things once you leave, assuming you do well and are well-liked. There is no significant difference in clinical or research reputation between the two institutions.

 

[eteshoe]

I'm probably not planning on staying for residency at either location... and I definitely am more excited by the science at UCSD, but there are also 6 really great PIs I can see myself working with at Cornell. I guess what I'm saying is that the neuroscience is amazing at both places, just more amazing at UCSD. City wise, I would assume that NYC would be better for my early 20s while I'd prefer La Jolla for my late 20s... definitely like the culture in NYC better than La Jolla.

Since the science is essentially a wash, would you agree with ucbundergrad that I should be deciding between living in NYC and staying close to family? That's kinda how I'm feeling about my decision right now.

Yea I'd agree that that's essentially your real decision to make. This path can get lonely/sucky at times and having a good support network is critical. This doesn't always mean a physical proximity to family but that certainly doesn't hurt.

 

[Fencer]

Sorry, away across the pond... As a neuroscientist/neurologist, I can easily tell you that UCSD is the top Neuroscience program in the country. During graduate school, you should consider presenting posters at AAN and/or ANA. For residency, you might want to attend a program in the Northeast or UCSF/UCLA.