Negative AZ interview feedback

[accidental]

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After reading the interview experiences, there are a lot of people unhappy with their Arizona interview. Who is this smug, pompous man people are complaining about? For AZ students- what are your thoughts on the negative interview feedback? Is the criticism warranted or are they from weenie applicants?

I really would like to go to AZ b/c I live there, but I don't think I could stand a school that puts on an act (ie, being cold and intimidating) during the interview just to see how you'll react. I think it is a warning as to the type of environment you'll be in for the next 4 years. Please tell me if I am wrong about that AZ students because I would like to go there.

For instance, UoP interview feedback is nearly 100% positive. I think that is b/c the interviews are laid back and they just want to see if you have a brain and are a normal person with social skills. After talking with people who have graduated from there, the environment for the 3 years is exactly like that. It has been the same with job interviews - the best work enivironments I have experienced have been a reflection of the interview - uptight interview = uptight environment and laidback interview = laidback environment. It has never been any different and I have had a lot of jobs.

My whole point is WHY ALL THE GAMES? I would just like for them to get to know me without the psychology crap. This may not even be the case with AZ but I know it happens a many other schools.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I thought my interview was VERY warm and welcoming. I really enjoyed my interview (obviously, since I chose to attend here).

In ALL the interviews I've been able to sit in on (probably about 25 now), I've never once seen anybody being cold or intimidating for the purpose of seeing how the applicants will react.

They DO ask some questions for the purpose of seeing if you ever read a newspaper or have any foggy clue as to what is happening in the outside world, but if you don't know the answers they'll prompt you along.

BOTH of the interviews I did yesterday had everybody in the room laughing at some point or another (the 2 faculty members, myself, and the interviewee). I wouldn't call that uptight.

I don't know why all the negative feedback. Some of it is from 100% *****s, while other feedback is from those who have general concerns. To each his own. I must note, however, that I wonder if the Interview Feedback wouldn't be different (for every school) if it wasn't anonymous. There is zero accountability with it. Anybody can post anything they want about any school, regardless of whether or not they actually interviewed there or even applied there.

Our school IS really laid-back as far as most things go. I don't think a more laid-back dean has ever existed in the history of dental schools (those who meet Dr. Dillenburg can vouch for this). This guy despises ties and only wears DC-brand skater shoes. He chills with me all the time and we talk not only as student to dean, but also, I feel, as friend to friend.

As far as the program goes, the accreditation body for the ADA has given our school the best scores ever for a new school. Their quote is that our "curriculum will be a model for future dental school curriculums".

Above all, come out and see us and make your own informed judgement. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, and that includes you.

And for the record, there ARE things I don't like about my school. Nothing is ever perfect.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Also, in your post you mention games and psychology crap -- what are you referring to?

 

[DcS]

Honestly, how can you attribute some of those negative responses to "100% *****s". Do you think it is a coincidence that hardly any other schools have that many negative responses? Do the *****s only interview at Arizona? Or do people just have a personal vendetta for you Gavin.

If you are like most students, you have pride in your school. If you do, then I would print those feedback answers and bring them to your Dean/Admissions committee.

I am unbiased when I read them. I am already a dental student, so I'm not at Arizona nor am I trying to get into school. From my reading of the feedback, it is very scary because the people all pretty much had the same complaints. If it were just "*****s", then the scope of complaints would probably be wide-ranged and nonsensical. On the contrary, just about every complain dealt with a lack of interest in the person, and about the coldness of some of the interviewers.

I'm not attacking your school, but from reading those feedbacks I view them as valid from an outsider's point of view. If I were you Gavin, I would show them to some people down at your school to have some changes made. If the faculty are too stubborn to make changes, then I have to say that the comments then are correct.

 

[aphistis]

I don't know, Gavin. I'm obviously not in any position to comment knowledgeably on ASDOH, but between your responses here and the "word of advice" thread you started (and then deleted?) a few days ago, you seem to be getting awfully defensive about the place. Insinuating that there's some sort of conspiracy to smear AZ's name in the interview feedback section certainly isn't helping any.

 

[accidental]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
Also, in your post you mention games and psychology crap -- what are you referring to?

By that I meant just what I explained at the beginning of my post - intimidation, etc. It was just a statement about interviews in general and not aimed directly at AZ because until I interview there I won't know for myself.

AZ is a top pick for me so I am not attacking the school, I just wanted to know if there was any validity to the feedback. If so, its scary.

 

[dinonuggets]

I cant really say if the interview comments are from "weenie" applicants or not. One, because I dont know them; and two, because if I knew them I might think they were "weenies" while anyone of my classmates might think they were legit, (i.e., not weenies)...

I agree with GavinC in regards to the lack of accountability. Those members like Gavin, Yah, and surely others (I'm not too familiar with the forum) dont hide behind their computers (so to speak) as they let you know who they are, where they're at, etc...


Personally, I have been "hiding" or enjoying the anonymity of the forum. As gavin said, if we were accountalble for our comments, how many of us would still make them?

 

[dinonuggets]

While I'm at it, let me come out from behind my computer and let all know that I am at ASDOH. Furthermore, let me say that I know, from firsthand experience, that some of the negative interview feedbacks have come from the same person...

I cant continue now, dont have time....but I do have more info from ASDOH.

 

[accidental]

Originally posted by dinonuggets
I cant really say if the interview comments are from "weenie" applicants or not. One, because I dont know them; and two, because if I knew them I might think they were "weenies" while anyone of my classmates might think they were legit, (i.e., not weenies)...

I agree with GavinC in regards to the lack of accountability. Those members like Gavin, Yah, and surely others (I'm not too familiar with the forum) dont hide behind their computers (so to speak) as they let you know who they are, where they're at, etc...


Personally, I have been "hiding" or enjoying the anonymity of the forum. As gavin said, if we were accountalble for our comments, how many of us would still make them?

By all of the quoting and unquoting around the word 'weenie' I get the feeling I should have mentioned a brand like Oscar Meyer, Bar S, or even the 'plump when you cook'em' Ball Park variety. I appologize.

But with as many negatives they can't all be Oscar Meyer's.

 

[DcS]

Originally posted by dinonuggets


I agree with GavinC in regards to the lack of accountability. Those members like Gavin, Yah, and surely others (I'm not too familiar with the forum) dont hide behind their computers (so to speak) as they let you know who they are, where they're at, etc...
As gavin said, if we were accountalble for our comments, how many of us would still make them?

Answer 1 question for me. There are 31 schools that have interview feedback. There are maybe 1 or 2 schools that have as high a % of negative feedback. How can you possibly explain this. People just picked those 2 schools to bring down? Come on, face the facts. Not many schools have a % of negative feedback as high as Arizona.

Don't view this as an attack. This is a legitimate concern, and the fact that you just attribute it to people simply bashing your school is the easy way out and doesn't solve the problem.

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

Originally posted by aphistis
I don't know, Gavin. I'm obviously not in any position to comment knowledgeably on ASDOH, but between your responses here and the "word of advice" thread you started (and then deleted?) a few days ago, you seem to be getting awfully defensive about the place.

Yeah, I posted some replies to that thread, kinda pisses me off that my posts were deleted, but I guess things were blowing up in Gavin's face so he decided to pull the plug.

I'm still amused that their assistant dean gets on SDN and tries to squelch any negative press at the AZ interview. That combined with Gavin's appeal to us all to go out of our way to maintain the interview process at AZ strikes me as very strange. Oh well, looks like things are really not going well for Gavin so he's bailing on us.

 

[dinonuggets]

I dont view any of the comments as an attack or otherwise threatening...

why the high volume of interview feedback responses with Arizona? Although it is presumptuous at best, I would say it is for the same reason that Arizona is such a hot topic on this forum: It [ASDOH] is a new school. Not only is it a new school but it is a new school trying to do things differently, which makes it even more fascinating than perhaps UNLV (by fascinating I mean interesting, not better)....

What ISNT presumptuous is the fact that I know that some of the feedbacks about ASDOH are bogus. Some are posted by the same person, and others (at least one other) comes from a person who didnt even interview this year.

Why did these people do that? Again, it's presumptuous to speak for others without knowing why they did something; Having said that, I would say it's b/c one of the applicants did not have a good experience and wanted to do all s/he could to give a big "screw you" to ASDOH, the other did it to try and get a rise out of the members of this forum who are concerned/involved with ASDOH (surely there are many who skip over the ASDOH threads)....the one applicant I can speak for, who I met independent of SDN, was not accepted here, was bothered by that, and posted (after the fact) negatively about the school.

That's all the time I have, hope this has helped, and let me end by stating that I realize that this could all be BS but affirm that it's not (I have no reason to lie)...

It goes without saying that I could be lying (I'm not)

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

Originally posted by dinonuggets
I dont view any of the comments as an attack or otherwise threatening...

why the high volume of interview feedback responses with Arizona?

Probably because Arizona comes across as being very arrogant when they are a brand new school. They demand everyone look at them as a Harvard, UCLA, or Ohio State when they haven't graduated a single dentist. I'm sure with time the school will overcome its growing pains and become a good school, on par with average dental schools like Nova, Temple and BU. But in the interim, administration and students need to realize that they are still an unproven entity and be more understanding that people have their reservations.

I wrote this all before, but Gavin deleted it.😡

 

[accidental]

Originally posted by dinonuggets

[ASDOH] (by fascinating I mean interesting, not better) (at least one other) (surely there are many who skip over the ASDOH threads) (after the fact) (I have no reason to lie) (I'm not)

Easy on the parenthetical speaking...........

 

[accidental]

It makes me a little curious that since I posted my original question 2 more interview feedbacks have been posted and they are both positive. Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[larryt]

Although I was rejected at Az but I didn't complain about their interview process (every school has their own style of interviewing applicant). I did write a positve feedback about this school. I would love to attend this school if they gave me a chance.

By the way, some of negative feedbacks are also true. For example :

..... They get offended over every little question. ...... this was true when 1 applicant asked about the school's view on research. (Gavin, the guy went to lunch with us asked this question)

..... The facilities are nice, the philosophy/mission/staff are amazing. The interview was a big disappointment, though. Zero questions about ME and MY FILE, which was frustrating. You will see what I mean. ..... also true.

..... They kept stressing public health, that the school was built on a needs bases, but asked how they were implementing these emphasis in the curriculum and there would a long winded answer (or lack of)...... similar response when 1 applicant asked kidda similar question.


Sorry Gavin.... I didn't write those above statements.

 

[accidental]

Thanks larryt

I would like to here more from people who actually posted the reviews - positive or negative. Who are those 28 people? I want to hear from you!

 

[predentchick]

I'm one of them. I HATED Arizona. At first I was timid and shy about speaking out about it, but not when I saw that more people felt exactly how I did. The interview was all about THEM and nothing about ME. I felt like their staff and the interview was full of arrogance. It was like they wanted to put me down because I didn't know the sec. of the UN. I mean, come on! If that wasn't enough, the curriculum wasn't gelling with me. Doing entire courses in ONE WEEK? I remember reading that one average of a week long class' exam was a 45%!!! I don't think this is a good way to do things AT ALL! I guess that is why 50 something other schools don't!? The way the school was set up along with the disposition of the faculty really turned me off. The ONLY thing that school has going for it is it's technology, which is awesome. That's it. Sorry AZ dwellers, but this seems to be the majority or this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[JFrave74]

Are you serious?! I interviewed back in November and Arizona had one of the BEST interview processes I have attended. It seems to me that if you are not a certain type of person, it shows in your interview and you get weeded out. I came out of my interview with Dean Dillenberg and Dr. Dave and it couldn't have gone better. It was a friendly conversation designed to bring out your best. They even gave me a ride to the airport. The other girl who interviewed at the same time with Dr. Simonsen had an attitude from the minute she walked inand didn;t fair so well. Her interview lasted five minutes according to her. I know that for the reputation that Dean Dillenberg has, he is a very good judge of character. This school wants model citizens who are fun people to be around and work with. If you are one of those people who have let university turn you into an anti-social competitior, they don't want you. Verbabtim from Dean Dillenberg's lips during his visit to my school in september, " if you are a jerk , we don't want you." If you are this negative type personality or succumbed to the "low" stress levels of the interview then you didn't make it. There were plenty of people who deserved to be accepted but because they have so many applicants they also were turned away. The numbers don't lie. I have since been accepted to several great schools and I am proud to say that Arizona stepped up to the plate early and offered me admission really fast. Gavin is lucky to be there and you should all be as lucky as those who are going there. This is a great program with a bright future and if you have a spirit of volunteerism embeddeded within you, then this is the place for you. The technology they have and the vision they are following will be a force in the dental community within the next couple of years. IF you don't believe me, find out the accredidation scores arizona received and tell me of another school that achieved such a high amount of commendations before their approval

 

[mcataz]

I have been on here for a while so you know I'm not Gavin in disguise or a hater of the Arizona school.

I have not interviewed there. Therefore, take my post with a pound of salt. My description is a loose one at best. Nonetheless, I live in Phoenix. I have several friends who are young dentists in the area. All of these dentists were very optimistic and enthusiastic about the school. The idea of a dental school would enhance the educational opportunities and the local economy in general. Since many of these dentists are friends of mine they wanted me to stay in the area and attend the Arizona school. However, upon learning more about the school, they strongly discouraged me from attending their school. All of them have cited the unorthodox curriculum and lack of funds associated with the school. Therefore, I think it is unfair to imply that only *****s and those intended to spite Gavin criticize the school. Likewise, I think many of the positive reviews are genuine. And they should taken into consideration as well. And the majority of posts written about the Arizona school have been positive.

My opinion is the school will take longer to develop than both Nova and UNLV. Nova already had a medical school in place. They added the dental school later so they had facilities, professors and other resources in place to provide the school with a firm infrastructure. UNLV is sponsored by the state. So obviously UNLV is stable due to the committment and resources placed upon it by the state of Nevada.

The Arizona school was developed in a very different manner. It didn't have an established medical school campus that it was built on. It is a school that supports a lot of allied health related programs. The school took off in a very haphazard manner. That is why they don't have a full time facult. It's one reason why their admissions office processes applicant paperwork in Missouri and not in Arizona.

It seems like the school is trying to cut corners any way they can. And they cover up their cost saving measures by taking the offensive and stating how cutting edge they are. It just seems like it is a school without a lot of money that is desperately trying to create a dental school at the last minute. Like I said, I think the school will be a fine establishment after 5 years or so, but their initial classes will suffer.

 

[le fort guy]

jaap I sympathize with you for having your prior posts deleted from the earlier thread. I too was in the middle of a rebuttal.

 

[KrebsPsycho]

I had an interesting conversation with some of my professors this morning. We all agreed that if you have other choices, go for any school other than Arizona. It can be a good school in 10 or 20 years, who know? but NOT NOW. It may be SHUT DOWN in a couple years (and you have to apply to other schools). We believe UNLV is a different story. The state of Nevada is rich and has been growing fast. Btw, I had my interview with Arizona last week. Not the interview, but the future of the school really scares me. Anyone who has doubts should go visit the school for himself. If you think the school can survive and graduate excellent dentists there, go for it.

 

[Bickle]

Originally posted by dinonuggets


What ISNT presumptuous is the fact that I know that some of the feedbacks about ASDOH are bogus. Some are posted by the same person, and others (at least one other) comes from a person who didnt even interview this year.

I'm just curious, but how do you know this?

 

[mcataz]

Honestly, I think the best shot Arizona has at developing a stable dental school will be through the efforts of the state or the Midwestern campus in Glendale. Midwestern may eventually emulate Nova and build a campus. I know for a fact that the administration discussed the possibility of building a dental school. However, they cited the huge start up costs that would be incurred and thus they aren't moving toward building a dental school in the near future. And Midwestern is quick to add programs. They conceptualized, and bult a podiatry school in two years. It opens next Fall. This is why I'm not suprised by the cost cutting measures employed by the Arizona school. It takes money to develop a dental school. That's why Midwestern has yet to build one.

 

[predentchick]

JFfave... I don't think I was "weeded out" of Arizona. I have been accepted to multiple schools, and every school has commented on my ability to give such a great interview. I just flat out didn't like the school. It has nothing to do with my attitude. I have a fabulous one!

 

[dinonuggets]

Originally posted by Dentaldream
I'm just curious, but how do you know this?

Well, two weeks ago I was talking with an applicant who was very excited about the program, has already been accepted to a number of schools, and hopes to gain acceptance here at ASDOH.

SDN came up, namely the topics dealing with ASDOH, and this applicant was laughing saying how a buddy of his had gotten on and posted numerous negative feedbacks.

The other is a friend of mine who is a D1 in the midwest, who was not accepted to ASDOH and is a bit of an SDN junky - incidentally, he is the one who informed me about this website - he let me know he was posting in order to add fuel to the fire; that he thought the assault on ASDOH was humorous and enjoyed the banter...

Furthermore, it seems as though anyone who would take personal shots at a dean, cant be serious about what s/he is doing. This is kind of besides the point but it seems that once someone crosses that line they lose all credibility?

 

[dinonuggets]

Originally posted by mcataz
Honestly, I think the best shot Arizona has at developing a stable dental school will be through the efforts of the state or the Midwestern campus in Glendale. Midwestern may eventually emulate Nova and build a campus. I know for a fact that the administration discussed the possibility of building a dental school. However, they cited the huge start up costs that would be incurred and thus they aren't moving toward building a dental school in the near future. And Midwestern is quick to add programs. They conceptualized, and bult a podiatry school in two years. It opens next Fall. This is why I'm not suprised by the cost cutting measures employed by the Arizona school. It takes money to develop a dental school. That's why Midwestern has yet to build one.

MCATAZ,

Dude, you are hillarious! You're using the fact that they put together a podiatry school to establish credibility? Have you seen the podiatry forums? (No offense you foot fungal doctors)

Anyways, I remember you from last year with the same comments about ASDOH and it's funding. Something about how you knew somebody who told you we were grossly underfunded, and so on? Clearly, there is a misunderstanding that we are supported by AT Still University of Health Sciences which contains numerous programs including the Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, which is the oldest and one of the best osteopathic schools in the nation. You question the infrastructure? That's funny being that our 4th year medical students have been rotating here for a number of years. Tomorrow I might ask one of those 4th years about our infrastructure.

Everyone is familiar with UOP right? Well, Dr. Dugoni (who conducted our white coat ceremony, and was involved with the development of our curriculum) is one of our biggest supporters. Do you think a man of his stature would put his name on the line for something that wasnt good for dentistry?

To single out Dr. Dugoni is unfair to the many other respected authorities who have taken part in the development of our program but due to time constraints and an unwillingness on my part to continue on with so much of your negative energy, I must sign off, gotta get back to head & neck.

 

[dinonuggets]

Originally posted by tropicalwind
The state of Nevada is rich and has been growing fast. Btw, I had my interview with Arizona last week.

Ummm, the fastest growing city in the country is 2 miles south of here (Gilbert), and the second fastest is, ummm 3 miles away, Chandler, and the fastest growing county is, uhhhh, Maricopa....

Your post suggests that UNLV will do well because of the incredible growth that is taking place there? If that's the case, based on your own reasoning ASDOH will do equally as well, if not better.

Still, this all is so absurd. I can see why Gavin decided his time was better spent elsewhere. It's seems like such a lose/lose situation as Gavin, and now myself, try to explain ASDOH, and give insight as to what is going on here, while many members would rather argue than listen.

If you want to know about ASDOH, and hear an answer to the OP's question, read on, if not, please move onto another thread and enjoy.......

 

[JFrave74]

I don't think its right for people to be going above and beyond the modern scope of courtesy and politeness to make sure a school gets a bad rap. My commentary was satirical and illustrates a point that I know nothing about the other applicants as well as those interviewing do not know the motivations of the schools they are applying for. I believe such negativity is better left unsaid because at least AZ is trying to make something great of their program. This thread has gone on way too long and people should just let it go. I hope AZ does succeed because there are plenty of qualified students that need more dental schools to be admitted to. If we are going to grow as a country of dentists, don't you think we should be supportive and do our best to promote all programs that are trying to stay open and that have received accredidation from the ADA? What we don't need is yet another dental school shutting down in the next couple of years.

 

[dinonuggets]

accidental - I will answer your questions in the order they were received.

My thoughts on the negative feedback are this: I take them the same way I take most things I read on this forum, in other words I take them for what they're worth. Some posts/comments seem more sincere in their tone, while others are more hostile, sarcastic, and so on. As for the specific comments about ASDOH, I have already addressed in previous posts the fact that some of the negative posts are bogus (recall I know this firsthand, and here's to my first 'parenthetical' comment), perhaps some of the positive ones are bogus as well: Hence, I take the comments VERY LIGHTLY.

Some of the criticism is warranted, and some of us at ASDOH (I can only speak for a few but others may feel this way) would like to see some changes made.

To state that you don't think you could stand a school that puts on an act by being cold and intimidating to see how a prospective student will react is a perfectly acceptable stance. In response to that I would suggest a couple of things. First, keep in mind that two people can experience the same thing and take something completely different from said experience. For example, you and I could have an interview with all things being equal, and I could have a terrible experience and you could come out all smiles. Case in point; in discussing interview experiences with friends last year some had completely different opinions about the same schools. Second, many schools ask certain stressor-type questions to see how students respond. If you (or whoever) views this as hostile, intimidating, etc, I would suggest you rethink your paradigm and take these questions for what they are. That's to say, these questions are designed to get to know YOU better (I'll talk more about this shortly).

Going through your post you went from talking about the cold and intimidating interview to asking if you are wrong about the AZ students. You kind of lost me here b/c as far as I understood it you werent talking at all about the students but rather the negative interview feedback and the interview format, and then you ask if you are wrong about the students?

Not sure how to respnd to this. All I can say about my class (and again, take this for what it's worth) is that I could honestly be in a study group, case practice, empty room, bar, restaurant, etc with ANYONE of them, and have a good time. That is how cool EVERY person in our class is. Maybe this isnt important to you, and I'm nobody to tell you it should be, but for me this is very important. I am amazed at what an exceptional group of people I am surrounded by, am grateful to them for having the courage to be a part of something as challenging/frustrating/innovating/rewarding as being a member of an inaugural class, and appreciate the faculty for putting this group together.

You bring up a great point about UOP, and you, like I, apparently know people who are there or have gone there. You mention that their 3 years there were great, and I am glad for that. Too many people leave their dental schools bitter, and ASDOH is acutely aware of that. They are dedicated to creating a dynamic, fun, warm learning place and in my opinion they are well on their way. With such a small class size (excentuated by the fact that we are the Inauguaral class), there is a very intimate relationship between the students, faculty, and staff. The overall environment is amazing (again, my personal opinion) and as we work through our growing plains it will only get better.

I see your point about how the interview can be an indication as to things to come. Again, I would advance the theory that our interview isn't 'uptight' but really laidback (at the very least it was for me), and that it's all about how you deal with it. Still, there are some things I would like to see changed but that's just me, surely there are many who think it's fine. Now, while I see your point and acknowledge that it may often times hold true, you also must acknowledge that it's not always the case.

Your whole point is, "...WHY ALL THE GAMES?" and here you let yourself off the hook by acknowledging that, "...this may not even be the case with AZ..." Here you're right on, this isnt the case.... Is the ASDOH interview perfect? (are any?) No it's not. Would we the students like to see some things done differently (how many students would like to see things done differently at their school)? Yes we would.

Now to be fair, many of the negative feedback reports stated that the interview doesnt ask about the applicant, but I would ask how could that be?

The entire group dynamic is about the applicant, that is where the interviewers can witness firsthand how YOU work in a group. Does that mean YOU take control? Say nothing? Help mediate? Argue? The answer is, YOU be YOURSELF, and trust that the interviewers know what they're doing. Then, in the interview they ask why YOU want to be a dentist/why dentistry? What characteristics YOU have that would help YOU to excell in our program? What YOU would do in certain situations, how YOU would respond? and so on. Even the geographical questions (which many of us think are lame, rememebr we were in YOUR shoes last year) are designed to see how YOU respond. And without fail they ask if there is anything that YOU would like to say, or if YOU have any questions...this is where YOU can say whatever YOU want.

As far as applicants 'challenging' or 'asking' tough questions and being dealt with in a less than friendly manner, all I can say is that last year we (the Inaugural class) had any and all questions you have (if not more), and I asked every question (without exception) and my concerns were dealt with very appropriately.

As for any other concerns, JUST ASK. Most have been dealt with again and again (search the forum for previous ASDOH threads); faculty, limited full time faculty, why the limited full time faculty, preclinic, sim lab, clinics, 4th year rotations, MPH, funding, surely it's all there, and much respect is due to GavinC for taking the time to put it there. Still, if you arent satisfied just ask, call ASDOH, send an email, find out for yourself, and do what's best for YOU.

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

Can I get a Cliff's notes of that last post🙄

I can't make it through a rant that long.

 

[RaiderNation]

Sorry, but I have to get this off my chest. How is it that all of these posters...95% of them aren't even in dental school yet...seem to know how Arizona is and that it might not exist in a few years, blah, blah, blah. Arizona had the best scores ever for a school as new as it is. That's one thing that sort of bugs me...a bunch of people making comments about something they know nothing about. Get it together people!

 

[dinonuggets]

Originally posted by jaap
Can I get a Cliff's notes of that last post🙄

I can't make it through a rant that long.

Quality! It's premature on my part but based on your posts I can see that you are a real class act.

What, to be one of the few people who is actually taking shots at Arizona and then not have the class to "make it through a rant that long" but still have the ability to make another cynical, useless (it wasn't even funny) comment regarding the topic. Way to contribute!

 

[accidental]

Originally posted by RaiderNation
Sorry, but I have to get this off my chest. How is it that all of these posters...95% of them aren't even in dental school yet...seem to know how Arizona is and that it might not exist in a few years, blah, blah, blah. Arizona had the best scores ever for a school as new as it is. That's one thing that sort of bugs me...a bunch of people making comments about something they know nothing about. Get it together people!

I agree - that's why my questions were directly to current AZ students and those who have interviewed there. All of the rest of the posts, though appreciated and fun to read, I am taking with a grain of salt until I experience the school myself.

Just to reel everyone back in - I really wanted to know if the negative reviews had any validity to them and what seems to be true is that some do and some don't. But like most simple questions on this board, it has created a monster.

 

[dinonuggets]

Originally posted by RaiderNation
Sorry, but I have to get this off my chest. How is it that all of these posters...95% of them aren't even in dental school yet...seem to know how Arizona is and that it might not exist in a few years, blah, blah, blah. Arizona had the best scores ever for a school as new as it is. That's one thing that sort of bugs me...a bunch of people making comments about something they know nothing about. Get it together people!

Amen bro.

 

[accidental]

Originally posted by dinonuggets
Going through your post you went from talking about the cold and intimidating interview to asking if you are wrong about the AZ students. You kind of lost me here b/c as far as I understood it you werent talking at all about the students but rather the negative interview feedback and the interview format, and then you ak if you are wrong about the students?

A grammatical error may have caused you some confusion. I wasn't asking if I was wrong about the AZ students. It was a question to current students. It should have read - AZ students, tell me if i am wrong because I would really like to go there.

BTW, can you tell us the specific things you would like changed?

 

[DcS]

Can a present Arizona student answer this question.

Why would you not bring up this poor feedback to your Dean/Admissions etc? Especially since there seems to be a consistent theme (school seems uninterested in student, more in boasting about the school). This isn't an attack, I want to know if you are going to attempt to bring this up.

I am a dental student and I know that if my school had consistent poor feedback, I would be in my Dean's office and the admission's as well, to let them know.

If your program's directors are unwilling to change and adapt their interviewing processes, I think that speaks volumes about the school. Every program in the country tweaks things to make them as efficient as possible. If your officials are not willing to, it would make me think twice about arizona.

 

[dinonuggets]

Originally posted by dinonuggets



Now to be fair, many of the negative feedback reports stated that the interview doesnt ask about the applicant, but I would ask how could that be?

The entire group dynamic is about the applicant, that is where the interviewers can witness firsthand how YOU work in a group. Does that mean YOU take control? Say nothing? Help mediate? Argue? The answer is, YOU be YOURSELF, and trust that the interviewers know what they're doing. Then, in the interview they ask why YOU want to be a dentist/why dentistry? What characteristics YOU have that would help YOU to excell in our program? What YOU would do in certain situations, how YOU would respond? and so on. Even the geographical questions (which many of us think are lame, rememebr we were in YOUR shoes last year) are designed to see how YOU respond. And without fail they ask if there is anything that YOU would like to say, or if YOU have any questions...this is where YOU can say whatever YOU want.

I think it has been established that the authenticity of some of the [ASDOH] interview feedbacks is questionable. At the same time some, if not most, are probably genuine, and do share common themes.

The above quote is worth reading as it gives some insight to a small part of the ASDOH interview, and demonstrates that indeed there is ample opportunity for the interviewers to get an idea of the type of person each respective applicant is.

This isn't to suggest that we (the students) completely support our interview format, and yes we are trying to see fit that the Dean of Admissions (and other powers-that-be) receive any and all feedback pertaining to said topic.

DcS, rest assured that the faculty and staff are very open minded and committed to doing everything in their power to establish ASDOH as one of the premiere dental schools in the country.

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

Originally posted by dinonuggets
Quality! It's premature on my part but based on your posts I can see that you are a real class act.

What, to be one of the few people who is actually taking shots at Arizona and then not have the class to "make it through a rant that long" but still have the ability to make another cynical, useless (it wasn't even funny) comment regarding the topic. Way to contribute!

I don't recall taking shots at AZ in any way. I have said several times I would like to see them succeed and there is certainly a need for a dental school in a fast-growing state like Arizona. I just think it is unrealistic to expect that there won't be people who are wary of attending a brand new school and you should give them more credit instead of attacking them. Like I said, HUMILITY is the name of the game until Arizona has proven itself (which I am almost certain will happen). I'm not opposed to AZ, just the arrogance and refusal to accept criticism that the institution as a whole and the defenders of the school seem to exude. It also sounds like you have some serious problems with your interview process.

In ten years AZ might be the best dental school in the nation, but it is far from that right now.

 

[mcataz]

Originally posted by dinonuggets
MCATAZ,

Dude, you are hillarious! You're using the fact that they put together a podiatry school to establish credibility? Have you seen the podiatry forums?

Well considering they actually planned, built and designed an entire new building and program on campus in two years is impressive. The fact that your school doesn't even have a clinic or a full time faculty after years of planning is a joke.

If you have so much fuding, please explainl why you don't have permanent faculty. Oh, let me guess, it's because you prefer to fly in a new professor each week. Right, it's called lacking office space and the funds to hire them full time.

Midwestern could have easily done what you did. We not only have a campus in ARIZONA but we have one in Chicago as well. We have far more resources than Kirksville. The only reason why Midwestern didn't open a dental school is because they didn't want to do a half assed job like you guys.

That we are supported by AT Still University of Health Sciences which contains numerous programs including the Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, which is the oldest and one of the best osteopathic schools in the nation. You question the infrastructure?

Yes, considering the Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine is in Missouri and not in Mesa, AZ, I certainly question it. Furthermore, you essentially added a dental school to a floor of a large complex that housed allied health programs. And you call that a strong infrastructure. Your school isn't like Nova in which their dental students have immediate access to their medical school facilities and professors that are ON CAMPUS and not another state.

That's funny being that our 4th year medical students have been rotating here for a number of years. Tomorrow I might ask one of those 4th years about our infrastructure.

Rotations are done in other hospitals. Infrastucture relates the facilities you have immediately at your disposal in Mesa...which is lacking I might add.

Everyone is familiar with UOP right? Well, Dr. Dugoni (who conducted our white coat ceremony, and was involved with the development of our curriculum) is one of our biggest supporters. Do you think a man of his stature would put his name on the line for something that wasnt good for dentistry?

That is pathetic that you have to cite another dental school's dean to support your school. What's wrong? Is your own dean not good enough? And this is the funniest fact of all. I work for a UOP alum. I had lunch with him and three other UOP alum in the valley. I asked them if Dugoni has some special relationship with the AZ school. They just laughed and said that Dugoni has relationships with other schools and he has been involved with other schools' white coat ceremonies. Dugoni is a prominent figure in dentistry in general. He has no special ties to the Arizona school. That's like saying a President endorses your school if he gives the graduation speech there.

 

[accidental]

Originally posted by dinonuggets
Still, this all is so absurd. I can see why Gavin decided his time was better spent elsewhere. It's seems like such a lose/lose situation as Gavin, and now myself, try to explain ASDOH, and give insight as to what is going on here, while many members would rather argue than listen.

If you want to know about ASDOH, and hear an answer to the OP's question, read on, if not, please move onto another thread and enjoy.......

Well said. As the OP, I would like this thread to stop. I got my answer about 50 posts back. If it doesn't stop I swear I'll go to podiatry school instead. I mean it, I will.

 

[accidental]

Ok, we don't have to stop. I'd like to see about 5 pages first and then I'd like it to stop. By then the thread might get a bit off topic, because up until now that hasn't happened at all. Not one bit.

 

[dinonuggets]

Originally posted by mcataz
Well considering they actually planned, built and designed an entire new building on campus in two years is impressive. The fact that your school doesn't even have a clinic nor a full time faculty is quite frankly a joke.

Actually, the building our school is in was built in 9 months. Our clinical building will be completed in 9 months from start to finish. Really, this is such an old argument! The final plans for our clinic have been published, and we will have an absolutely amazing facility; 84 chair clinic, paperless (ie digital), lecture halls for CE courses, and the list goes on and on.

If you have so much fuding, tell why you can't hire a permanent faculty.

MCAT, you went through all of this last year? The limited full time faculty IS NOT DUE TO A LACK OF FUNDING but to the strongest recommendations from the advisory committee that was brought together to help shape our curriculum. Said committee consists of, among others, Dr Dugoni of UOP (more on your Dr. Dugoni comments later).

This committee stated unequivocably that limited full time faculty (ie, limited tenured faculty) was a must. Why? I could give you their reasons but suffice it to say that if Deans from around the country, with decades of experience in dental education are saying something, it's good enough for me. Perhaps though, MCATAZ knows better?

Realize that our entire curriculum was designed from the ideas of this advisory committee.

What does fourth year medical students have to do with a dental school?

Well MCATAZ, you talk about our funding and infrastructure and suggest that we can only succeed if we align ourselves with a medical school. This proves incredible ignorance and lack of factual knowledge about our program as we are aligned with a medical school, and an exceptional one at that.

You're right that the schools are NOT in close proximity. But when it comes to questioning our funds, infrastructure, research opportunties, and so on, it is very relevant to know that we are a part of the AT Still University of Health Sciences.

That is pathetic that you have to cite another dental school's dean to support your school. What's wrong? Is your own dean not good enough? And this is the funniest fact of all. I work for a UOP alum. He has no special ties to the Arizona school. That's like saying a President endorses your school if he gives the graduation speech there.

MCAT, you sound like the little boy who tells the other little boy that your dad is tougher than his.... "What's wrong? Is your dean not good enough?"

Come on guy, the point is to establish that one of the most respected men in dental education (Dr. Arthur Dugoni), among others (I reiterate the others out of respect for them, their own accomplishments, and their involvment with our program), is a huge proponent of our program. Instead of talking with UOP alumni, why don't you talk with the dean himself. He is MUCH more intricately involved with our program than just having conducted our white coat ceremonies. Remember, he, along with several other deans, CREATED our curriculum. Talk to Dr. Dugoni and I'm sure he'll fill you in on this. In fact, our understanding is that the curriculum cannot be significantly changed without his approval, as well as the other members of the committee. I know two Arizona Board Examiners, both of whom are UOP alumni, one actually misquoted Dr. Yarborough, Dean of Admissions at UOP in regards to Dr. Dugoni's involvement with our program. Not to discount your bosses knowledge of Dr. Dugoni's role with our program, but if he really believes that he just came and conducted our white coat ceremony he is also grossly misinformed.

Lastly, RECALL that our program received the highest evaluation that the ADA has ever given to a new dental school. Now some may choose to view this statement as arrogant but it's not. What it is, is something that we are proud of, and humbled by, as we realize the importance of what we are trying to do here.

Dont take this personal (it's not) but your entire post is absolutely ridiculous. Since you're here in AZ why dont you come down and visit with us, and find out for yourself the truth about ASDOH. This is an invitation that has been extended and re-extended, and applies to all.

 

[init4damoney]

Originally posted by accidental
Well said. As the OP, I would like this thread to stop. I got my answer about 50 posts back. If it doesn't stop I swear I'll go to podiatry school instead. I mean it, I will.

Please, go to podiatry school. More spots in dental school for the rest of us.

 

[accidental]

Originally posted by init4damoney
Go big or go home.

That is so exxxxtreme.

 

[dinonuggets]

Originally posted by jaap
I don't recall taking shots at AZ in any way. I have said several times I would like to see them succeed and there is certainly a need for a dental school in a fast-growing state like Arizona. I just think it is unrealistic to expect that there won't be people who are wary of attending a brand new school and you should give them more credit instead of attacking them. Like I said, HUMILITY is the name of the game until Arizona has proven itself (which I am almost certain will happen). I'm not opposed to AZ, just the arrogance and refusal to accept criticism that the institution as a whole and the defenders of the school seem to exude. It also sounds like you have some serious problems with your interview process.

In ten years AZ might be the best dental school in the nation, but it is far from that right now.

Come on jaap, let's not mince words....

I'm not familiar with any previous posts you may have made on other threads relating to ASDOH. What I am familiar with are the posts you made on this thread relating to our dean and our school in general (how we're cocky or something). Now you can try and spin it, and explain how your earlier posts dont take shots at ASDOH but the sentiment and tone of your aforementioned posts in this thread are unmistakable.

You insinuate that we dont expect that people may be wary of what we are trying to accomplish here, nothing could be further from the truth. Anytime you try and do something new and different, it is going to be met with skepticism. Much of that skepticism may even be justified. Wariness and even skepticism are fine; we EXPECT that. What we don't expect are for people to be disrespectful and propagate misinformation.

I, and anybody else at ASDOH, would be more than happy to deal with concerns about the program. Heck, Gavin has been doing that for months! And I, and anybody else at ASDOH give absolute validity (credit as you put it) to any concern, and deal with it appropriately (and have dealt with these concerns appropriately in the past).

As for your take on humility, I simply disagree with you there based on my personal values. For me, humility is something that you have to work on daily, and we [ASDOH] will try and be humble, not only until we are proven (as you suggest), but always, as we strive to become caring, compassionate professionals, and continue in the development of caring, compassionate professionals. Furthermore, I advance the ideology that all of us should develop sincere humility, not only while we are students ('unproven') but also when we become professionals. Wouldnt that be refreshing.

 

[mcataz]

Dinonuggets

You joined November 28, 2003. I posted messages relating to ASDOH back in February 2003. Oddly enough, the conversation I had back then was with GAVIN. How would you know and remember in detail information I posted regarding ASDOH over a year ago if you didn't join until a little under 2 months ago? Hmmm

Ooops someone got caught. It looks like someone is using multiple usernames

Can anyone guess who it might?

 

[Bickle]

Originally posted by dinonuggets
Since you're here in AZ why dont you come down and visit with us, and find out for yourself the truth about ASDOH. This is an invitation that has been extended and re-extended, and applies to all.

Only if you pay for my airline ticket.

 

[mcataz]

Originally posted by dinonuggets


MCAT, you went through all of this last year?

How would you know that; you didn't join until two months ago? I had that conversation with Gavin. And it shouldn't be any suprise that you write and sound a lot like...who else... GAVIN!


The limited full time faculty IS NOT DUE TO A LACK OF FUNDING but to the strongest recommendations from the advisory committee

You can choose to drink the Kool Aid, but anyone with common sense can read through the bull$it. Your school simply lacks MONEY! You don't have the budget to hire professors full time and provide them with the necessary office space etc.

This committee stated unequivocably that limited full time faculty (ie, limited tenured faculty) was a must. Why? I could give you their reasons but suffice it to say that if Deans from around the country, with decades of experience in dental education are saying something, it's good enough for me. Perhaps though, MCATAZ knows better?

So why don't those same deans fire their tenured faculty at their own dental schools, and emulate what Arizona is doing since it is so groundbreaking? I guess that "limited full time" faculty is good enough for ASDOH but not good enough for their own schools. That makes sense


Well MCATAZ, you talk about our funding and infrastructure and suggest that we can only succeed if we align ourselves with a medical school. This proves incredible ignorance and lack of factual knowledge about our program as we are aligned with a medical school, and an exceptional one at that.You're right that the schools are NOT in close proximity. But when it comes to questioning our funds, infrastructure, research opportunties, and so on, it is very relevant to know that we are a part of the AT Still University of Health Sciences.

Right except your dental students doesn't have access to full gross anatomy labs, basic science professors on campus, and a full medical/dental library that it would if it were actually NEXT to the Kirksville school.

MCAT, you sound like the little boy who tells the other little boy that your dad is tougher than his.... "What's wrong? Is your dean not good enough?"

So now you are resorting to personal insults. That usually occurs when people start losing arguments.

Come on guy, the point is to establish that one of the most respected men in dental education (Dr. Arthur Dugoni), among others , is a huge proponent of our program. Instead of talking with UOP alumni, why don't you talk with the dean himself. He is MUCH more intricately involved with our program than just having conducted our white coat ceremonies. Remember, he, along with several other deans, CREATED our curriculum. Talk to Dr. Dugoni and I'm sure he'll fill you in on this.

Again, I heard it from the horses mouth. I work with 4 UOP recent alumni and they speak and e-mail Dugoni all the time. When he came here, they met up with him. And they told me has no real role with the school other than as an "advisor." And they know this because all of them were considering getting involved wtih school until the information they learned regarding the school. Furthermore, Dugoni is heavily involved with the ADEA so naturally he was involved with the created of the newest dental school to emerge. When the next school emerges, he will also be a part of that. You are just acting like Dugoni is a faculty member which he clearly is not. Again, you are embellishing your school's relationship with Dugoni to strengthen your support of your school.

In fact, our understanding is that the curriculum cannot be significantly changed without his approval

Now that is a bald faced lie if I ever heard one.

Dont take this personal (it's not) but your entire post is absolutely ridiculous.

Whatever Gavin, we have heard your bs before. If you are going to embellish the truth at least do a better job that stating that your "curriculum can't change without Dugoni's approval." I'll let my friends know of that one. We will all have a good laugh.

I have nothing more to say.

 

[accidental]

Originally posted by mcataz
Dinonuggets

You joined November 28, 2003. I posted messages relating to ASDOH back in February 2003. Oddly enough, the conversation I had back then was with GAVIN. How would you know and remember in detail information I posted regarding ASDOH over a year ago if you didn't join until a little under 2 months ago? Hmmm

Ooops someone got caught. It looks like someone is using multiple usernames

Can anyone guess who it might?

I'm sure ASDOH let's their students talk to each other. Ever thought of that?