Negotiating aid, not yet eligible for IS tuition

[spottedcory]

From what I've seen, most example emails for negotiating aid include the rough cost difference between two schools. When mentioning the rough cost difference, can I assume that I am successful in declaring in state residency for in state tuition at the more affordable school? Because I've been repeatedly told that declaring IS residency is pretty easy, and the cost difference between the two schools isn't that huge if I assume OOS tuition (but it's quite large if I assume IS tuition, even for just 2 out of 4 years).

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[KnightDoc]

From what I've seen, most example emails for negotiating aid include the rough cost difference between two schools. When mentioning the rough cost difference, can I assume that I am successful in declaring in state residency for in state tuition at the more affordable school? Because I've been repeatedly told that declaring IS residency is pretty easy, and the cost difference between the two schools isn't that huge if I assume OOS tuition (but it's quite large if I assume IS tuition, even for just 2 out of 4 years).

You can assume whatever you want. To my knowledge, most private schools won't match subsidized IS tuition at public schools, which is why many people end up at IS public schools, and why their IS yields are so high! If everyone admitted was able to use it to leverage money elsewhere, they'd lose a lot of people to that every year, and wouldn't be considered so desirable due to their cost advantage. 🙂

Moreover, why do you think IS isn't an all or nothing proposition? You cannot establish residency in most states while a full time student, so, as far as I know, if you begin as OOS you will end as OOS. Where did you hear "declaring IS residency is pretty easy"? I heard exactly the opposite.

Most schools are very strict about it, and it is typically determined by rules established by the state, not the school, because it is the state subsidizing you if you are IS. If you have been out of school working for at least a year, you are IS where you live and work, not wherever you "declare." And, if you are not independent and don't provide half of your own support, and your parents declare you as a dependent on their tax return, then you are IS where they live and work. Again, not wherever you "declare."

To the extent people are successful negotiating price discounts, it is almost always getting a school to match a grant (either merit or need based) offered by a school it considers a peer (i.e., T20 to T20, T50 to T50, etc.). Hopkins won't match Drexel, but might match Penn, and will never match UMD. JMHO. You can certainly try anything, but it will be useful if you go in with realistic expectations. Good luck.

 

[spottedcory]

You can assume whatever you want. To my knowledge, most private schools won't match subsidized IS tuition at public schools, which is why many people end up at IS public schools! 🙂

Moreover, why do you think IS isn't an all or nothing proposition? You cannot establish residency in most states while a full time student, so, as far as I know, if you begin as OOS you will end as OOS. Where did you hear "declaring IS residency is pretty easy"? I heard exactly the opposite.

Most schools are very strict about it, and it is typically determined by rules established by the state, not the school, because it is the state subsidizing you if you are IS. If you have been out of school working for at least a year, you are IS where you live and work, not wherever you "declare." And, if you are not independent and don't provide half of your own support, and your parents declare you as a dependent on their tax return, then you are IS where they live and work. Again, not wherever you "declare."

To the extent people are successful negotiating price discounts, it is almost always getting a school to match a grant (either merit or need based) offered by a school it considers a peer (i.e., T20 to T20, T50 to T50, etc.). Hopkins won't match Drexel, but might match Penn, and will never match UMD. JMHO. You can certainly try anything, but it will be useful if you go in with realistic expectations. Good luck.

I realize these things! I'm not really expecting aid but I also wanted to give my best shot at asking at least. I actually heard that declaring residency in certain states is very manageable (I'll pm you the states!). Establishing residency as a graduate student is different than as an undergraduate. The possibility of getting in-state tuition as an OOS student is playing a huge role in my decision so trust me I did a lot of research both through SDN/online and current students! I definitely don't want to attend a school assuming in-state tuition and then have to pay OOS tuition 🙂

 

[YCAGA]

Why do people think you have leverage to negotiate tuition decreases? There are dozens, probably hundreds, of people willing and able to take your spot who will pay full price and are marginally less qualified than you, if there is a difference at all.

 

[KnightDoc]

Why do people think you have leverage to negotiate tuition decreases? There are dozens, probably hundreds, of people willing and able to take your spot who will pay full price and are marginally less qualified than you, if there is a difference at all.

Because a lucky few are successful, and we are all great at projecting?????

 

[spottedcory]

Why do people think you have leverage to negotiate tuition decreases? There are dozens, probably hundreds, of people willing and able to take your spot who will pay full price and are marginally less qualified than you, if there is a difference at all.

I mean, there's absolutely no harm in writing an email, and if I'm sending an email I might as well put in my best effort. I am expecting nothing since I know this school doesn't match offers but I am not going to just not try

 

[YCAGA]

I mean, there's absolutely no harm in writing an email, and if I'm sending an email I might as well put in my best effort. I am expecting nothing since I know this school doesn't match offers but I am not going to just not try

In this case it’s not totally crazy to go by the “it’s can’t hurt to ask” policy because admissions offices are fairly silo’ed in my experience, but I would be very careful with that logic once you are in medical school…

Asking for something that doesn’t even make sense for you to receive just comes across as entitled.

If they didn’t give you a scholarship and they don’t have an official policy on tuition matching, asking is a fools errand.

Medical schools aren’t Best Buy with a price match guarantee😬

 

[KnightDoc]

In this case it’s not totally crazy to go by the “it’s can’t hurt to ask” policy because admissions offices are fairly silo’ed in my experience, but I would be very careful with that logic once you are in medical school…

Asking for something that doesn’t even make sense for you to receive just comes across as entitled.

If they didn’t give you a scholarship and they don’t have an official policy on tuition matching, asking is a fools errand.

Medical schools aren’t Best Buy with a price match guarantee😬

No, but it's definitely done. It's a huge investment, and, some people do have some success, so, as you note, it doesn't hurt to ask.

That said, it really is a select few who are successful. They tend to be the stars that schools are fighting over, as evidenced by the fact that they have at least one scholarship offer to leverage.

This causes everyone else to think "why not me?" but the answer is obvious if no school has offered a scholarship. This means you are good enough to admit, but not worth fighting over, and that is the vast majority of people lucky enough to have an A.

 

[YCAGA]

Most premeds suffer from Rosaceae Myopia Corrected or seeing the world thru rose colored glasses where optimism and better things happening is the only probable outcome.

Lol. Stealing this.

One of my favorites is “I got a 497 on the MCAT but am retaking, what are my chances assuming I get a 515+? I am studying really hard this time.”

 

[spottedcory]

I'm so confused as to the response to this thread, I'm not expecting anything I just thought I could attempt using merit scholarships to negotiate aid at peer institutions? I feel like the price of a little optimism is not all that bad here haha

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm so confused as to the response to this thread, I'm not expecting anything I just thought I could attempt using merit scholarships to negotiate aid at peer institutions? I feel like the price of a little optimism is not all that bad here haha

And, you absolutely can. Many people have successfully done this. Your OP, though, asked about using potential future IS tuition at a state school, which is a very different animal. If you are one of the chosen few with merit scholarships, you can and should try to use them to leverage aid at a preferred peer destination.

 

[spottedcory]

And, you absolutely can. Many people have successfully done this. Your OP, though, asked about using potential future IS tuition at a state school, which is a very different animal. If you are one of the chosen few with merit scholarships, you can and should try to use them to leverage aid at a preferred peer destination.

Yeah I mean, but my original question still stands. It's a significant merit scholarship at a state school. And in my email I'm not sure if I can assume in state residency because then the cost difference is really huge. I just didn't realize I had to provide additional details to ask a question, also my morning eyes just realized I never mentioned that earlier haha

 

[theendisnigh]

I'm so confused as to the response to this thread, I'm not expecting anything I just thought I could attempt using merit scholarships to negotiate aid at peer institutions? I feel like the price of a little optimism is not all that bad here haha

It really isn't; optimism keeps premeds going. Some become star-gazed in their expectations, but that doesn't mean the rest of us can't dream.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yeah I mean, but my original question still stands. It's a significant merit scholarship at a state school. And in my email I'm not sure if I can assume in state residency because then the cost difference is really huge. I just didn't realize I had to provide additional details to ask a question, also my morning eyes just realized I never mentioned that earlier haha

Yeah, well, the more details you provide, the better the responses are going to be. Merit scholarships put you in a different tier of candidate, and a peer school might or might not want to steal you away. EVERYONE has a state at which they are IS. The subsidies they receive at IS public schools are given to everyone and are based on nothing other than residency. As a result, different facts yield different answers.

A peer school might indeed be willing to match a merit scholarship offer, but getting a private school to match IS tuition at a public school would be rare. If this were not the case, IS public schools would not have the cost advantage that they do, and all those state subsidies would be doing is driving tuition down across the industry, without actually incentivizing students to stay in state to earn their degrees and practice.

 

[spottedcory]

Yeah, well, the more details you provide, the better the responses are going to be.

You're right and that was my bad on my part. Would they still "match" (I would be ecstatic with anything, doubt they'd match) the merit scholarship if the actual tuition differences are slightly significant but not crazy significant? Or maybe I can just mention the award?

 

[candbgirl]

I realize these things! I'm not really expecting aid but I also wanted to give my best shot at asking at least. I actually heard that declaring residency in certain states is very manageable (I'll pm you the states!). Establishing residency as a graduate student is different than as an undergraduate. The possibility of getting in-state tuition as an OOS student is playing a huge role in my decision so trust me I did a lot of research both through SDN/online and current students! I definitely don't want to attend a school assuming in-state tuition and then have to pay OOS tuition 🙂

You came here for help, so why don’t you help someone too and post the states. And you just might find someone with first had knowledge of some of the states.

 

[spottedcory]

You came here for help, so why don’t you help someone too and post the states. And you just might find someone with first had knowledge of some of the states.

Happy to pm anyone curious!

 

[KnightDoc]

You're right and that was my bad on my part. Would they still "match" (I would be ecstatic with anything, doubt they'd match) the merit scholarship if the actual tuition differences are slightly significant but not crazy significant? Or maybe I can just mention the award?

Yes, you can definitely start with just mentioning the award. If they have any interest in engaging with you at all, they will probably look at net costs for both schools, and maybe give you something if they want you.

If it's not considered a peer school, it's not going to go anywhere, and maybe isn't even worth doing. If you're talking about a state school and a prestigious private one, unless that state school is UCSF, UCLA, Pitt or Michigan, I honestly think you'll be wasting your time. If it's a less prestigious private school (but, looking at your post history, that doesn't seem likely 🙂), then, sure, go for it.

Just be careful not to back yourself into a corner by issuing ultimatums like "I can't afford to come" or "I can't justify coming" unless you give me X because the other school has already given me Y.

 

[RickyRic]

You came here for help, so why don’t you help someone too and post the states. And you just might find someone with first had knowledge of some of the states.

I know Ohio is one state where OOS students can get in-state tuition after completing M1.

Happy to pm anyone curious!

Can't you just list the states for the pre-meds who come after us so they can know? This is not hidden knowledge but it is not necessarily easy to find, so no need to hoard the knowledge.

 

[spottedcory]

I know Ohio is one state where OOS students can get in-state tuition after completing M1.

Can't you just list the states for the premeds who come after us so they can know? This is not hidden knowledge but it is not necessarily easy to find, so no need to hoard the knowledge.

I am a little paranoid haha since I was considering listing the school name in the email and it's not that hard to connect the dots. I did reply to a couple messages so I didn't mean to "hoard" information. I ended up not mentioning the school name though so, I just know of Ohio and NY with just 1 year residency requirements, and I saw that CA was easy too

 

[deleted1095518]

they don’t have an official policy on tuition matching

what schools have this policy??

 

[KnightDoc]

what schools have this policy??

No one does -- after all, med school isn't Best Buy! 🙂

That said, there are definitely some schools that are more receptive than others, and, as I said earlier, those that are receptive will do it for some and not others, and with respect to some schools and not others.

It's important for everyone to remember that it's a seller's market where schools do not have to discount seats at all to fill them with highly qualified students. Nevertheless, there are some candidates who are so irresistible that schools are willing to fight over them. A good indicator as to whether you might be one of these is whether you have multiple As. Once you have cleared that hurdle, then you have to see if you have at least one scholarship offer.

Once you have that, it's time to get to work. Some people mistake this to mean if school A is in a lower cost area of the country, and has a lower COA than school B, that that's a negotiating point. It could be, but it's highly unlikely you will be successful. Schools will offer discounts to lure stars away from other schools. Not the ordinary stars that one has to be to get one or more As in the first place, but the stars among stars that you have to be in order to receive scholarships in addition to loans.

For need-based grants, you just have to be lucky enough to be accepted by one or more schools that have budgets for those. Many schools don't, which is why even people with high financial need are expected to take out massive amounts of loans.