Nepotism

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dr.rex

dr.rex

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How do you all feel about nepotism, legacies, and so on? After reading a recent post on SDN I remembered some pretty heated debates that I have had with my friends. I see these types of actions of nepotism as being a large problem in most settings but in the field of dentistry it is so blatantly obvious that it is occurring. For example on one of my secondary applications which was four pages long, there was a full page dedicated to naming friends and family that went to X university of dentistry or that were dentists. Also at my interviews all four of my student tours were given by students whose parents were dentists. I almost feel like I am breaking the mold or are there a lot of people out there whose parents aren’t dentists? Does anyone else see this, or think that is a problem?

I am certainly proud that I got accepted on my own merit and not on the accomplishments of anyone else. I am also not taking a shot at anyone whose parents are dentists just merely making some statements and looking for comments.
 
dr.rex said:
How do you all feel about nepotism, legacies, and so on? After reading a recent post on SDN I remembered some pretty heated debates that I have had with my friends. I see these types of actions of nepotism as being a large problem in most settings but in the field of dentistry it is so blatantly obvious that it is occurring. For example on one of my secondary applications which was four pages long, there was a full page dedicated to naming friends and family that went to X university of dentistry or that were dentists. Also at my interviews all four of my student tours were given by students whose parents were dentists. I almost feel like I am breaking the mold or are there a lot of people out there whose parents aren’t dentists? Does anyone else see this, or think that is a problem?

I am certainly proud that I got accepted on my own merit and not on the accomplishments of anyone else. I am also not taking a shot at anyone whose parents are dentists just merely making some statements and looking for comments.
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There's a great article about this topic in this week's Time magazine.
 
Well, I'll be a 3rd generation dentist, both my Father and Grandfather went to NYU and I haven't heard a thing from them!

I did have interviewers talk about it being a benefit though, and to an extent I understand that: When your parents are dentists you really understand the lifestyle, the amount of work required, and you have access to lots of really good shadowing, assisting and letter-of-rec oppurtunities.

Still, after all that, I think blatant nepotism is a sad thing when it happens, especially if the candidate in question isn't a highly qualified applicant.
 
whats the title of the article?
 
I think this is the type of thing where if its helping you, you don't mind it, but if its not helping you and is helping others you really mind it. Assuming I get into a school (which I haven't yet), I will be a third generation dentist. But I didn't even apply to the schools my family (5 of them) went to, so I doubt I'm benefitting from any sort of legacy. At this point I wish I was benefitting from it though.
 
Ask any D-3 or D-4 at Temple about the three boys (all family) just now finishing up in the program. With DAT scores of 15 and 16, I think of course it is only a negative thing.

It is straight up BS when it occurs like this.

Oh, lets not forget that other school that accepted a 16, son of alum.

ahhh, now that I think about it more I just sound bitter. Maybe it just kills me to see some of my boys at school with 18's not getting any love and others get in this way.

I am over it, but it ain't right. 👎
 
dr.rex said:
whats the title of the article?
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It's the cover story- Building a student for the 21st century or something like that. It's not all about legacy students, but it makes some interesting points about how a large percentage of legacy kids at the ivy leagues are significantly less qualified to attend the school than most non-legacies. It also touches on affirmative action and says that what we need to do is re-structure that system so that the affirmative action goes to poorer students and not to students based on race.

It's an interesting read.
 
dddsmack said:
Ask any D-3 or D-4 at Temple about the three boys (all family) just now finishing up in the program. With DAT scores of 15 and 16, I think of course it is only a negative thing.

It is straight up BS when it occurs like this.

Oh, lets not forget that other school that accepted a 16, son of alum.

ahhh, now that I think about it more I just sound bitter. Maybe it just kills me to see some of my boys at school with 18's not getting any love and others get in this way.

I am over it, but it ain't right. 👎
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And how are they doing in school?

All this is just a means to getting into school. It's an outlet for your future kids if you need that extra push.
 
I think we're forgetting that nepotism occurs in pretty much every profession,and that its in no way a guarantee of anything.Trust me, I know.
 
This makes me think I should go to Columbia so my little spoiled brat kids can get in even though they failed highschool...😡
 
armorshell said:
This makes me think I should go to Columbia so my little spoiled brat kids can get in even though they failed highschool...😡
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They would need their GED first. Then your spoiled kids can go to Columbia.

You CAN buy your way into a top school. I think the price tag for Harvard College is around 3 million dollars. I forget.
 
dentstd said:
And how are they doing in school?

All this is just a means to getting into school. It's an outlet for your future kids if you need that extra push.
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They are struggling and it is well known around the school amongst their peers.

Oh well huh.
 
dentstd said:
They would need their GED first. Then your spoiled kids can go to Columbia.

You CAN buy your way into a top school. I think the price tag for Harvard College is around 3 million dollars. I forget.
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I heard that nepotism is very rampant in Brown.😱
 
DDSY said:
I heard that nepotism is very rampant in Brown.😱
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It's at every distinguished school. If many, many people really, really want to go there, it'll exist. ...it exists. We all should just deal.

...btw, I'm first generation.
 
"Oh, lets not forget that other school that accepted a 16, son of alum."

What was that other school if you don't mind me asking. And how do you use the quote feature that everyone but me seems to be able to do?
 
Mcglock said:
"Oh, lets not forget that other school that accepted a 16, son of alum."

What was that other school if you don't mind me asking. And how do you use the quote feature that everyone but me seems to be able to do?
Click to expand...

click on the Quote button right in front of you
 
Dental school is not just about education. They have to conduct themselves as businesses as well. They need money to support research programs, bring in/recruit qualified faculty, and to pay for those incredibly expensive simulators. You may think tuition is high and that all those fees you pay may cover such things, but it doesn't even come close. In the pharmaceutical company I work for I go through about a $1000 worth of materials/chemicals a day.

Alumni can make a huge difference in some of these school's budgets. Take for example the 3 million dollar donation recently given to VCU's dental program. Fair or not, money talks. That 3 million provides an education for not only (potentially) his son or daugher, but provides you with the high class facilities you gain your education in. That 3 million allows a dental school to boost their own reputation as a dental school and attract even greater applicants further on down the road. It's an investment and to see only the negative side of it is naive.
 
that doesnt make it right
 
dr.rex said:
I am certainly proud that I got accepted on my own merit and not on the accomplishments of anyone else.
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😴 Yawn

Well, whatever you need to boost your own ego. Welcome to the real world.

Is it fair that that some people have to support themselves and work a full time job while studying for the DAT's and taking courses, and shadowing, and volunteering while people have parents that will pay their way and give them 6 months to study for the DAT and all the time in the world to get the grades?

Life isn't fair is it?

If, however, a person gets in with a 16 DAT as some of you are alluding to well then that's bs. I agree there.
 
new theory:

the D-schools take forever to get word to you about an interview b/c they're too busy running all the applicant's last names through the alumni donation database.
 
KOM said:
Dental school is not just about education. They have to conduct themselves as businesses as well. They need money to support research programs, bring in/recruit qualified faculty, and to pay for those incredibly expensive simulators. You may think tuition is high and that all those fees you pay may cover such things, but it doesn't even come close. In the pharmaceutical company I work for I go through about a $1000 worth of materials/chemicals a day.

Alumni can make a huge difference in some of these school's budgets. Take for example the 3 million dollar donation recently given to VCU's dental program. Fair or not, money talks. That 3 million provides an education for not only (potentially) his son or daugher, but provides you with the high class facilities you gain your education in. That 3 million allows a dental school to boost their own reputation as a dental school and attract even greater applicants further on down the road. It's an investment and to see only the negative side of it is naive.
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I believe that Dr. Perkinson's kids already graduated from VCU SOD(one is still in school), so the gift wasn't meant to buy them a degree. I think the deal was he would get a building named after him. When you are as successful as him, you can afford to give a little back and you're right, its a good investment in Virginia's future.
 
KOM said:
Dental school is not just about education. They have to conduct themselves as businesses as well. They need money to support research programs, bring in/recruit qualified faculty, and to pay for those incredibly expensive simulators. You may think tuition is high and that all those fees you pay may cover such things, but it doesn't even come close. In the pharmaceutical company I work for I go through about a $1000 worth of materials/chemicals a day.

Alumni can make a huge difference in some of these school's budgets. Take for example the 3 million dollar donation recently given to VCU's dental program. Fair or not, money talks. That 3 million provides an education for not only (potentially) his son or daugher, but provides you with the high class facilities you gain your education in. That 3 million allows a dental school to boost their own reputation as a dental school and attract even greater applicants further on down the road. It's an investment and to see only the negative side of it is naive.
Click to expand...


You could argue that though they absolutely need the money, schools don't have to respond by accepting children of alumni. Some schools prefer to name buildings/rooms/scholarships after donors, and similarly some parents don't advertise that certain applicants are their children.

So if you were an administrator who was all integrity, you can still ask for money and feel good about accepting it from alumni.

armorshell has a good point about knowing what to expect. It's obvious when a school is doing it for the nepotism side of things, but when there's a short question about family members on the application, they may just want to ensure you've had some exposure to the field.

It may actually hurt the candidate, because they'll be pressed with questions to make sure they WANT dentistry, and don't just have a cushy debt-free practice ready for them in 4 years.

Sadly, I have noticed in my class that some people with dentist parents don't seem happy and excited about the future...it's more of a stable definite.

In summary, if I was designing an application, I'd ask how many family members, ask why the APPLICANT needs and wants dentistry, and have a special "I hope those weren't your genes" letter ready to send to parents with lamea$$ kids 😛 No freebies here.
 
It would be interesting to know to what extent nepotism is occuring. In my case, I think it has both helped and hurt me at various schools. As someone else wrote, sometimes in the interview it almost felt like I was being interrogated for a crime...as if I were concealing my true motivations for pursuing dentistry.

It seems to me that when people say they know this kid who got 16's on their DAT and got in I tend to question it. Who would give out that information in the first place? Do they go around telling people "hey, I was so underqualified for dental school, but I still got in just because my parent attended here."

Well, I guess if they really did score 16's on the DAT then maybe they are stupid enough to do that.
 
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