Net gain of 1600 positions in former AOA programs during merger transition. Discuss.

[Dr.Bruh]

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Source: Single GME update: Over 1,600 new positions added to formerly AOA-only programs - The DO

Curious on everyone’s thoughts on this data. Basically:
- 89% of AOA programs that applied have acgme accred
- there are actually 1600 more spots available in these programs compared to before the merger started due to these programs expanding their sizes.
- 40% of acgme programs have at least 1 DO in training.
- 171 AOA programs have closed since the merger but this article claims that’s a number consistent with “normal closure rates” and that many of these programs had few or no residents even training in them.



I still think it’s obvious we are disproportionately losing surg specialty spots (unless the ones that made the transition have expanded their size drastically). What do y’all think?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Source por favor.

 

[deleted407021]

Expanded ACGME approved spots is awesome. 1600 more spots is even awesomer.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

Source por favor.

Sorry forgot to post!!
Single GME update: Over 1,600 new positions added to formerly AOA-only programs - The DO

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Sorry forgot to post!!
Single GME update: Over 1,600 new positions added to formerly AOA-only programs - The DO

The 1600 is over all years of residency training, I would assume the majority of those positions are FM or IM. So probably a gain of about 500 pgy1 spots (1600/3 plus a bit for 4 or 5 year spots).

I would note that if every one of the 171 programs that were lost only had 2 PGY1 slots per year that only lasted 3 years, that would still be a loss of over 1000 spots. Seeing as most them are likely in surgical sub-specialties or longer training, the number is probably actually higher. I will just have to take the 'net gain' at face value, but I doubt it is very much. I will give them credit, if they actually gained spots tho, that is better than I expected.

Not saying the article is lying, but it is definitely painting a rosier picture than reality. But yay for more FM/IM tho. I am sure some DO's would be glad to have those spots right now.

 

[calvinhobbes]

What’s really scary and what no one is talking about is the amount of people who didn’t match yesterday and are attempting to SOAP. (Plus today’s technical failure of ERAS leading to there now being even less chances to SOAP, with 2 instead of 3 rounds).



Too many applicants, too few spots, and with the AOA match gone next year, I can’t imagine how much harder it will be for DOs overall. Folks, having a match dedicated only for DOs truly was a beautiful thing. The completion of the merger next year will screw over many DOs (larger # of DO applicants, one match, no guarantee AOA-turned-ACGME programs will take only DOs).

For this year, it will be interesting to see how many unmatched DOs there are / match rate / placement rate when stats come out this Friday.

Good luck to all.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

What’s really scary and what no one is talking about is the amount of people who didn’t match yesterday and are attempting to SOAP. (Plus today’s technical failure of ERAS leading to there now being even less chances to SOAP, with 2 instead of 3 rounds).



Too many applicants, too few spots, and with the AOA match gone next year, I can’t imagine how much harder it will be for DOs overall. Folks, having a match dedicated only for DOs truly was a beautiful thing. The completion of the merger next year will screw over many DOs (larger # of DO applicants, one match, no guarantee AOA-turned-ACGME programs will take only DOs).

For this year, it will be interesting to see how many unmatched DOs there are / match rate / placement rate when stats come out this Friday.

Good luck to all.

Trust me, I am watching the SOAP very carefully. Its painful, I feel bad for those DO's in it. And anyone who is ever in that situation needs to take every interview/call, and always accept an offer in the first round if you have one.

Match info won't come out on Friday. Maybe by late April/May we will know something. There will certainly be a lot less schools crowing about their placement rate this year.

 

[calvinhobbes]

Right, because in the past, if a good student didn’t match for whatever reason, DO schools could just contact their “home” hospitals and place that student in a TRI/ prelim so at least that student would have a residency spot to go to in July. (Just like MD schools always find a place for their unmatched students in their home hospital affiliated residencies). Now, DO schools won’t have those contacts, and can’t help unmatched students, because all residencies will be ACGME, and the sponsoring institution for those programs will be MD schools. DO schools are no longer official “sponsoring institutions” of residencies, even previous AOA-turned-ACGME programs. With one match, it’s the US-MDs that win out in the end. Kind of unfair, especially for say, a traditionally DO FM program, with a DO FM program director, but now the DO school that started that program in the first place (!) has zero connections to help a student match there, because that program, by ACGME policy, has to be “owned” by an MD school/hospital. The DO profession literally sold its soul with this merger. Yes, there are benefits to this merger, but explain that to the people who say, wanted to match to a dually AOA-ACGME program, with seats reserved for DOs via the DO match, and now all those seats will go to only MDs bc of the merger and thus the program barely takes any DOs, bc of internal requests from the new MD-sponsoring institution to fill it with MDs—it’s unfair.

 

[nooneyouknow]

Right, because in the past, if a good student didn’t match for whatever reason, DO schools could just contact their “home” hospitals and place that student in a TRI/ prelim so at least that student would have a residency spot to go to in July. (Just like MD schools always find a place for their unmatched students in their home hospital affiliated residencies). Now, DO schools won’t have those contacts, and can’t help unmatched students, because all residencies will be ACGME, and the sponsoring institution for those programs will be MD schools. DO schools are no longer official “sponsoring institutions” of residencies, even previous AOA-turned-ACGME programs. With one match, it’s the US-MDs that win out in the end. Kind of unfair, especially for say, a traditionally DO FM program, with a DO FM program director, but now the DO school that started that program in the first place (!) has zero connections to help a student match there, because that program, by ACGME policy, has to be “owned” by an MD school/hospital. The DO profession literally sold its soul with this merger. Yes, there are benefits to this merger, but explain that to the people who say, wanted to match to a dually AOA-ACGME program, with seats reserved for DOs via the DO match, and now all those seats will go to only MDs bc of the merger and thus the program barely takes any DOs, bc of internal requests from the new MD-sponsoring institution to fill it with MDs—it’s unfair.

I have not heard of this policy before. Is there a source that further expands on this?

 

[hallowmann]

Trust me, I am watching the SOAP very carefully. Its painful, I feel bad for those DO's in it. And anyone who is ever in that situation needs to take every interview/call, and always accept an offer in the first round if you have one.

Match info won't come out on Friday. Maybe by late April/May we will know something. There will certainly be a lot less schools crowing about their placement rate this year.

They release a press release with basic info on the day of the match. We'll know the big numbers by Friday, we just won't know the details until later.

Right, because in the past, if a good student didn’t match for whatever reason, DO schools could just contact their “home” hospitals and place that student in a TRI/ prelim so at least that student would have a residency spot to go to in July. (Just like MD schools always find a place for their unmatched students in their home hospital affiliated residencies). Now, DO schools won’t have those contacts, and can’t help unmatched students, because all residencies will be ACGME, and the sponsoring institution for those programs will be MD schools. DO schools are no longer official “sponsoring institutions” of residencies, even previous AOA-turned-ACGME programs. With one match, it’s the US-MDs that win out in the end. Kind of unfair, especially for say, a traditionally DO FM program, with a DO FM program director, but now the DO school that started that program in the first place (!) has zero connections to help a student match there, because that program, by ACGME policy, has to be “owned” by an MD school/hospital. The DO profession literally sold its soul with this merger. Yes, there are benefits to this merger, but explain that to the people who say, wanted to match to a dually AOA-ACGME program, with seats reserved for DOs via the DO match, and now all those seats will go to only MDs bc of the merger and thus the program barely takes any DOs, bc of internal requests from the new MD-sponsoring institution to fill it with MDs—it’s unfair.

There are some inaccuracies in your post. The ACGME doesn't require that residencies are owned by MD schools, programs just have to have a sponsoring institution. Sponsoring institutions can (and do) include MD schools, DO schools, universities, OPTIs, healthcare systems and hospitals. Most DO schools (and OPTIs) already are sponsoring institutions for former AOA residency programs. You're right that some former AOA programs now have MD schools or hospitals as sponsoring institutions, but it's certainly not all of them. Also, its still required that DO schools maintain affiliations with residency programs and OPTIs. Many DO schools still do what you described (shifting their own grads into open spots in their affiliated residency programs).

Unfortunately the removal of placement requirements for DO schools means that schools have even less incentive to maintain lots of residency affiliations or to sponsor/start new residencies.

 

[LongDucDong]

Right, because in the past, if a good student didn’t match for whatever reason, DO schools could just contact their “home” hospitals and place that student in a TRI/ prelim so at least that student would have a residency spot to go to in July. (Just like MD schools always find a place for their unmatched students in their home hospital affiliated residencies). Now, DO schools won’t have those contacts, and can’t help unmatched students, because all residencies will be ACGME, and the sponsoring institution for those programs will be MD schools. DO schools are no longer official “sponsoring institutions” of residencies, even previous AOA-turned-ACGME programs. With one match, it’s the US-MDs that win out in the end. Kind of unfair, especially for say, a traditionally DO FM program, with a DO FM program director, but now the DO school that started that program in the first place (!) has zero connections to help a student match there, because that program, by ACGME policy, has to be “owned” by an MD school/hospital. The DO profession literally sold its soul with this merger. Yes, there are benefits to this merger, but explain that to the people who say, wanted to match to a dually AOA-ACGME program, with seats reserved for DOs via the DO match, and now all those seats will go to only MDs bc of the merger and thus the program barely takes any DOs, bc of internal requests from the new MD-sponsoring institution to fill it with MDs—it’s unfair.

This is wildly inaccurate.

 

[calvinhobbes]

The schools helping their students match at their home institutions? Not so much a policy as it is an unwritten rule, a “help your own whenever you can” code.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

What’s really scary and what no one is talking about is the amount of people who didn’t match yesterday and are attempting to SOAP. (Plus today’s technical failure of ERAS leading to there now being even less chances to SOAP, with 2 instead of 3 rounds).



Too many applicants, too few spots, and with the AOA match gone next year, I can’t imagine how much harder it will be for DOs overall. Folks, having a match dedicated only for DOs truly was a beautiful thing. The completion of the merger next year will screw over many DOs (larger # of DO applicants, one match, no guarantee AOA-turned-ACGME programs will take only DOs).

For this year, it will be interesting to see how many unmatched DOs there are / match rate / placement rate when stats come out this Friday.

Good luck to all.

Where can I see how many DOs didn’t match and had to SOAP already? The match rate has gone up for DOs every year in the acgme match. Also something to keep in mind is that there are 1.5-2000 more DOs in this match than the previous two year. So it makes sense raw number of SOAPers would go up. I’m interested to see percentages. If match falls below 82% for DOs then we can objectively say things are getting harder for DOs.

 

[calvinhobbes]

Thanks for the clarification!

They release a press release with basic info on the day of the match. We'll know the big numbers by Friday, we just won't know the details until later.



There are some inaccuracies in your post. The ACGME doesn't require that residencies are owned by MD schools, programs just have to have a sponsoring institution. Sponsoring institutions can (and do) include MD schools, DO schools, universities, OPTIs, healthcare systems and hospitals. Most DO schools (and OPTIs) already are sponsoring institutions for former AOA residency programs. You're right that some former AOA programs now have MD schools or hospitals as sponsoring institutions, but it's certainly not all of them. Also, its still required that DO schools maintain affiliations with residency programs and OPTIs. Many DO schools still do what you described (shifting their own grads into open spots in their affiliated residency programs).

Unfortunately the removal of placement requirements for DO schools means that schools have even less incentive to maintain lots of residency affiliations or to sponsor/start new residencies.

They release a press release with basic info on the day of the match. We'll know the big numbers by Friday, we just won't know the details until later.



There are some inaccuracies in your post. The ACGME doesn't require that residencies are owned by MD schools, programs just have to have a sponsoring institution. Sponsoring institutions can (and do) include MD schools, DO schools, universities, OPTIs, healthcare systems and hospitals. Most DO schools (and OPTIs) already are sponsoring institutions for former AOA residency programs. You're right that some former AOA programs now have MD schools or hospitals as sponsoring institutions, but it's certainly not all of them. Also, its still required that DO schools maintain affiliations with residency programs and OPTIs. Many DO schools still do what you described (shifting their own grads into open spots in their affiliated residency programs).

Unfortunately the removal of placement requirements for DO schools means that schools have even less incentive to maintain lots of residency affiliations or to sponsor/start new residencies.

 

[Rekt]

Where can I see how many DOs didn’t match and had to SOAP already? The match rate has gone up for DOs every year in the acgme match. Also something to keep in mind is that there are 1.5-2000 more DOs in this match than the previous two year. So it makes sense raw number of SOAPers would go up. I’m interested to see percentages. If match falls below 82% for DOs then we can objectively say things are getting harder for DOs.

The ACGME match rate was going up because of AOA program conversion, although it was actually a net loss. The overall DO placement rate last year was the lowest it's ever been. I imagine that trend will continue this cycle once stats are posted.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

The ACGME match rate was going up because of AOA program conversion, although it was actually a net loss. The overall DO placement rate last year was the lowest it's ever been. I imagine that trend will continue this cycle once stats are posted.

Actual Match rate was 81% last year, I expect more of the same. Placement I expect a fairly big drop but still 97%+ overall.

 

[hallowmann]

Where can I see how many DOs didn’t match and had to SOAP already? The match rate has gone up for DOs every year in the acgme match. Also something to keep in mind is that there are 1.5-2000 more DOs in this match than the previous two year. So it makes sense raw number of SOAPers would go up. I’m interested to see percentages. If match falls below 82% for DOs then we can objectively say things are getting harder for DOs.

We won't know until Friday. To be honest there are always tons of posts during the SOAP, so its hard to make an argument that this year was worse than last year. All those posts disappear by April, so people don't remember them. Friday will be telling, hopefully the percentage won't go down, but it might...

 

[deleted950463]

So basically a loss in specialty and surgical spots and gain of primary care spots.

Coupled with significantly increased difficulty of matching ACGME ortho and such versus matching AOA only ortho, this really heralds DOs as the primary care docs.

 

[Goro]

Source: Single GME update: Over 1,600 new positions added to formerly AOA-only programs - The DO

Curious on everyone’s thoughts on this data. Basically:
- 89% of AOA programs that applied have acgme accred
- there are actually 1600 more spots available in these programs compared to before the merger started due to these programs expanding their sizes.
- 40% of acgme programs have at least 1 DO in training.
- 171 AOA programs have closed since the merger but this article claims that’s a number consistent with “normal closure rates” and that many of these programs had few or no residents even training in them.



I still think it’s obvious we are disproportionately losing surg specialty spots (unless the ones that made the transition have expanded their size drastically). What do y’all think?

Gee, the sky didn't fall after all.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

So basically a loss in specialty and surgical spots and gain of primary care spots.

Coupled with significantly increased difficulty of matching ACGME ortho and such versus matching AOA only ortho, this really heralds DOs as the primary care docs.

Tho I think that’s probably likely there’s. I way to know. Bc the surg programs that made it could have expanded their sizes to greater than pre merger numbers.

 

[deleted950463]

Tho I think that’s probably likely there’s. I way to know. Bc the surg programs that made it could have expanded their sizes to greater than pre merger numbers.

You need the case numbers to expand program. Plus, a lot of the surgery numbers are relying on other hospitals (MD) for certain subspeciality rotations like peds

 

[calvinhobbes]

This is wildly inaccurate.

Not really, it has happened all the time, in the student’s favor, because of the beneficial connection from the DO school. So many examples, such as the following that happened to a friend of mine several years ago: student matched radiology at an MD program but didn’t match a first year prelim spot. So her DO school helped her by contacting one of its hospitals that had many TRI spots available (available through the DO match only, at the time). So she easily got a spot because of internal communication between the school and the coordinator at the hospital. Why? Because why not? It’s in the best interest for the school to have the student fully match, and it’s good for the DO program at the affiliated hospital because they are getting “one of their own”. She didn’t have to go through the whole SOAP or scramble hassle, her school easily helped her find a prelim spot for residency (I’m talking about TRIs/prelims here by the way, at DO programs, sponsored by their DO school). But now with no AOA match there is no longer that safety for DO students, it’s unfortunate really. My point in all this, is that there def. were perks in being a DO grad and having support within your own community of DO programs, thus ensuring a graduating student some sort of placement in a program via AOA. With one match next year however, gone are those connections (which, by the way, MD schools use all the time with their own hospital’s programs for unmatched students. Trust me, no MD school wants to see their own student go unmatched, just like no DO school does).

 

[LongDucDong]

Not really, it has happened all the time, in the student’s favor, because of the beneficial connection from the DO school. So many examples, such as the following that happened to a friend of mine several years ago: student matched radiology at an MD program but didn’t match a first year prelim spot. So her DO school helped her by contacting one of its hospitals that had many TRI spots available (available through the DO match only, at the time). So she easily got a spot because of internal communication between the school and the coordinator at the hospital. Why? Because why not? It’s in the best interest for the school to have the student fully match, and it’s good for the DO program at the affiliated hospital because they are getting “one of their own”. She didn’t have to go through the whole SOAP or scramble hassle, her school easily helped her find a prelim spot for residency (I’m talking about TRIs/prelims here by the way, at DO programs, sponsored by their DO school). But now with no AOA match there is no longer that safety for DO students, it’s unfortunate really. My point in all this, is that there def. were perks in being a DO grad and having support within your own community of DO programs, thus ensuring a graduating student some sort of placement in a program via AOA. With one match next year however, gone are those connections (which, by the way, MD schools use all the time with their own hospital’s programs for unmatched students. Trust me, no MD school wants to see their own student go unmatched, just like no DO school does).

DO schools can still sponsor residencies, they just have to be accredited by acgme now. Even post-merge, there will still exist programs that favor their own DOs. This merge is good for DOs in the long run. All we do is complain on here left and right that DOs are treated as inferior to MDs. Well, the only way we can combat that is to compete with them in an open forum where there aren't any protected DO spots. Reading posts like this that lament the loss of a "protected, DO only match" but in the same breath cry that "DOs should be viewed as equal to MDs" just drive me crazy. I'm all for DOs being seen the same as MDs, but that is going to be accomplished by DOs keeping their heads down and working their butt off (and it would definitely be nice if DO leadership stopped publishing their propaganda about "The DO Difference"). DOs are certainly NOT going to be viewed as equal to MDs so long as we have mentalities like this that complain about not having protected spots that are safe from the big bad MDs.

 

[calvinhobbes]

DO schools can still sponsor residencies, they just have to be accredited by acgme now. Even post-merge, there will still exist programs that favor their own DOs. This merge is good for DOs in the long run. All we do is complain on here left and right that DOs are treated as inferior to MDs. Well, the only way we can combat that is to compete with them in an open forum where there aren't any protected DO spots. Reading posts like this that lament the loss of a "protected, DO only match" but in the same breath cry that "DOs should be viewed as equal to MDs" just drive me crazy. I'm all for DOs being seen the same as MDs, but that is going to be accomplished by DOs keeping their heads down and working their butt off (and it would definitely be nice if DO leadership stopped publishing their propaganda about "The DO Difference"). DOs are certainly NOT going to be viewed as equal to MDs so long as we have mentalities like this that complain about not having protected spots that are safe from the big bad MDs.

You certainly bring up excellent and valid points, and I do agree with you. But it was still nice to have something to fall back on for a DO, just in case. Ah well, either way here’s hoping to great matches and success for all in the future!

 

[BorntobeDO?]

DO schools can still sponsor residencies, they just have to be accredited by acgme now. Even post-merge, there will still exist programs that favor their own DOs. This merge is good for DOs in the long run. All we do is complain on here left and right that DOs are treated as inferior to MDs. Well, the only way we can combat that is to compete with them in an open forum where there aren't any protected DO spots. Reading posts like this that lament the loss of a "protected, DO only match" but in the same breath cry that "DOs should be viewed as equal to MDs" just drive me crazy. I'm all for DOs being seen the same as MDs, but that is going to be accomplished by DOs keeping their heads down and working their butt off (and it would definitely be nice if DO leadership stopped publishing their propaganda about "The DO Difference"). DOs are certainly NOT going to be viewed as equal to MDs so long as we have mentalities like this that complain about not having protected spots that are safe from the big bad MDs.

What your suggesting is that we sacrifice our residencies in the *hope* that someday DO = MD in PD's minds. This is despite there being no increase (and arguably a decrease) in the quality of education, and a vast increase in the quantity of DOs. That is supposed to help us break the glass ceiling for the majority of DO's? Yeah right. It may work for a few superstars, but for the average DO, I doubt we get any benefit. And now we have no safety net of less desirable programs for our own weaker grads. Poor placement here we come. But congrats, this comment is pointless, as what you want to happen, already did.

 

[Neopolymath]

This is bad not good news.

 

[DO2015CA]

This years match and soap is showing it’s not good at all. Wait until placements come out. I think placements will be atrocious relative to normal placement rates.

 

[Solodyn]

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. The 1600 net gain sounds like an AOA spin. First of all, the 1600 position are now in ACGME programs (previous AOA) and that doesn't benefit the DOs anymore than USMDs and IMGs.

Most of the article expresses gains in percentage. I guess I can sit down to really figure out what percentage of the 170 program closures is to the total previous DO programs. But I will have to dig through the statistics and I don't really care to.

Our sponsoring institution has for the first time filled all the positions since we open the position to MDs. Now all the IM, FM, and Fellowship programs are filled through the match. These positions were previously available for DOs only and for DOs to scramble. While it maybe more fair to everyone, there is no way you can convince me it is better for the DOs. I take the article for AOA spin and nothing more.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. The 1600 net gain sounds like an AOA spin. First of all, the 1600 position are now in ACGME programs (previous AOA) and that doesn't benefit the DOs anymore than USMDs and IMGs.

Most of the articles expresses gains in percentage. I guess I can sit down to really figure out what percentage of the 170 program closures is to the total previous DO programs. But I will have to dig through the statistics and I don't really care to.

Our sponsoring institution has for the first time filled all the positions since we open the position to MDs. Now all the IM, FM, and Fellowship programs are filled through the match. These positions were previously available for DOs only and for DOs to scramble. While it maybe more fair to everyone, there is no way you can convince me it is better for the DOs. I take the article for AOA spin and nothing more.

So now that the the match/SOAP is even more unfavorable to DO's, what are we supposed to do? Everyone apply to 100+ slots of primary specialty plus a 100 more for a secondary residency? Try to get 30 interviews? This is madness. I am beginning to think that residency apps should be capped at 45 like SOAP.

 

[hallowmann]

Alright guys, as promised the press release is out and the verdict is better than I anticipated: https://mk0nrmpcikgb8jxyd19h.kinsta...oads/2019/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2019_WWW.pdf

So... NRMP match rate for DOs is 84.6%, the highest it has EVER been. We won't know for sure until all the numbers are released, but this is impressive given that 1300 more DOs matched in this match than last year. Congratulations Class of 2019!

When we get all the numbers out, I will try and do my typical annual match rate thread, but here are some prelim numbers:
-There are 6876 current year graduates.
-5076 total DOs matched in NRMP match (these include previous grads).
-1150 total DOs matched in the AOA match (including previous grads).
-A small amount also matched via other matches.
-If all of those that matched were current grads, then 90.5% matched, if 500 (a reasonable estimate in my opinion based on previous years, but still a wild guess) were previous grads, then the match rate is closer to 83.2%.

That should give us some idea of the likely match rate. The match rate is probably somewhere in between at ~86-87%, which is actually on-par with previous years.

 

[libertyyne]

Alright guys, as promised the press release is out and the verdict is better than I anticipated: https://mk0nrmpcikgb8jxyd19h.kinsta...oads/2019/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2019_WWW.pdf

So... NRMP match rate for DOs is 84.6%, the highest it has EVER been. We won't know for sure until all the numbers are released, but this is impressive given that 1300 more DOs matched in this match than last year. Congratulations Class of 2019!

When we get all the numbers out, I will try and do my typical annual match rate thread, but here are some prelim numbers:
-There are 6876 current year graduates.
-5076 total DOs matched in NRMP match (these include previous grads).
-1150 total DOs matched in the AOA match (including previous grads).
-A small amount also matched via other matches.
-If all of those that matched were current grads, then 90.5% matched, if 500 (a reasonable estimate in my opinion based on previous years, but still a wild guess) were previous grads, then the match rate is closer to 83.2%.

That should give us some idea of the likely match rate. The match rate is probably somewhere in between at ~86-87%, which is actually on-par with previous years.

View attachment 254030

2
So unsure what to think of this or if I am misinterpreting this chart , but out of 7337 graduates 1150 matched AOA, 749 did not match AOA and 5438 did not participate in AOA. Out of the 5438 ~ 5076 matched in ACGME. so ~362 did not end up matching from the pool that applied ACGME only. The total unmatched number would come up to 749+362 =1111 . So the total matched rate comes up to ~85% including military AOA and ACGME and previous graduates. Now this includes the 461 previous graduates, but lets exclude them completely and say none of them matched which is unlikely, but gives us the upper bound. 650 unmatched out of 6876~ 90 percent. Realistically one would think roughly~50% of previous graduates matched so that would mean 87% of current students matched.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

View attachment 2540742
So unsure what to think of this or if I am misinterpreting this chart , but out of 7337 graduates 1150 matched AOA, 749 did not match AOA and 5438 did not participate in AOA. Out of the 5438 ~ 5076 matched in ACGME. so ~362 did not end up matching from the pool that applied ACGME only. The total unmatched number would come up to 749+362 =1111 . So the total matched rate comes up to ~85% including military AOA and ACGME and previous graduates. Now this includes the 461 previous graduates, but lets exclude them completely and say none of them matched which is unlikely, but gives us the upper bound. 650 unmatched out of 6876~ 90 percent. Realistically one would think roughly~50% of previous graduates matched so that would mean 87% of current students matched.

I’m leaning more towards the 85% match rate . I wonder when the stats Will come out on specialty . This 85% matched, but in what ? I’m guessing heavily into primary care fm Im peds ~ 70% of them?

 

[Dr.Bruh]

I’m leaning more towards the 85% match rate . I wonder when the stats Will come out on specialty . This 85% matched, but in what ? I’m guessing heavily into primary care fm Im peds ~ 70% of them?

70% sounds too high. The amount of DOs going into primary care has gone down each year. And more DOs are going into fields like gas and EM very heavily. I think 55-60% is more accurate. Maybe 65% if you include psych and Ob/gyn

 

[libertyyne]

70% sounds too high. The amount of DOs going into primary care has gone down each year. And more DOs are going into fields like gas and EM very heavily. I think 55-60% is more accurate. Maybe 65% if you include psych and Ob/gyn

according to the charting outcomes 2018 the match rate in ACGME PCP fields was 71% and the AOA match for that year was 67% primary care. so a total of ~70% if you combine the two.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

according to the charting outcomes 2018 the match rate in ACGME PCP fields was 71% and the AOA match for that year was 67% primary care. so a total of ~70% if you combine the two.

Thanks for the correction. Is primary care considered FM, IM, Peds, psych, Ob in these data or just FM/IM/Peds?

Also I saw that this year per NRMP that DOs made up 25% of all family med residents which is interesting.

 

[libertyyne]

Thanks for the correction. Is primary care considered FM, IM, Peds, psych, Ob in these data or just FM/IM/Peds?

Also I saw that this year per NRMP that DOs made up 25% of all family med residents which is interesting.

IIRC, the federal government includes OBGYN, Psych, Peds, IM, FM in primary care, so who am I to say otherwise.

 

[hallowmann]

View attachment 2540742
So unsure what to think of this or if I am misinterpreting this chart , but out of 7337 graduates 1150 matched AOA, 749 did not match AOA and 5438 did not participate in AOA. Out of the 5438 ~ 5076 matched in ACGME. so ~362 did not end up matching from the pool that applied ACGME only. The total unmatched number would come up to 749+362 =1111 . So the total matched rate comes up to ~85% including military AOA and ACGME and previous graduates. Now this includes the 461 previous graduates, but lets exclude them completely and say none of them matched which is unlikely, but gives us the upper bound. 650 unmatched out of 6876~ 90 percent. Realistically one would think roughly~50% of previous graduates matched so that would mean 87% of current students matched.

That's also a rough estimate, which I believe is a reasonable approximation of the true senior match rate. I think its fair to say 40-50% of previous grads match (Its been as low as 30% and high as 50% in the past and this is on par with MD grads). The numbers aren't as clean, because we don't know how many DO grads applied and matched in the NRMP. Again though its still a rough estimate

 

[Dr.Bruh]

according to the charting outcomes 2018 the match rate in ACGME PCP fields was 71% and the AOA match for that year was 67% primary care. so a total of ~70% if you combine the two.

Also if you don’t mind helping me find the data you cited. I’m looking at the 2018 charting outcomes. I’m seeing 4617 total osteopathic applicant and I’m seeing a total number of osteopathic students that matched in either FM, Peds, IM, Psych, Ob/gyn and IM-Peds is 2269. So 49% of total DO applicants matching into those primary care specialties? Am I missing something. The only way you get number anywhere close to 70% is if you include path, EM, Neuro, and PM&R.

 

[libertyyne]

Also if you don’t mind helping me find the data you cited. I’m looking at the 2018 charting outcomes. I’m seeing 4617 total osteopathic applicant and I’m seeing a total number of osteopathic students that matched in either FM, Peds, IM, Psych, Ob/gyn and IM-Peds is 2269. So 49% of total DO applicants matching into those primary care specialties? Am I missing something. The only way you get number anywhere close to 70% is if you include path, EM, Neuro, and PM&R.

2269/3179 =71.37%
Cant include people who didnt match 🙂.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

View attachment 254083
View attachment 254084
2269/3179 =71.37%
Cant include people who didnt match 🙂.

Thanks. But now I’m confused about this data from the main match report lol. This has the total number of DOs matching to Pgy-1 positions as 3771 and this matching PCP as 2381. Making 63.1% of DOs that matched into PCP. So what’s going on here??

 

[Dr.Bruh]

And if you include DOs that matched Pgy2 positions that year it makes total DOs matched 4090 (pgy1 or 2) with 2381 in PC speciatilies.

 

[libertyyne]

Thanks. But now I’m confused about this data from the main match report lol. This has the total number of DOs matching to Pgy-1 positions as 3771 and this matching PCP as 2381. Making 63.1% of DOs that matched into PCP. So what’s going on here??

link the report. I was citing 2018 data because thats they only place it was granular.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

link the report. I was citing 2018 data because thats they only place it was granular.

This is the 2018 main match report data. It’s has larger number than the charting outcomes data for the same year. Not sure why. Maybe it’s post-soap data and charting outcomes isn’t? Idk. Put its page 8 and 9.

https://mk0nrmpcikgb8jxyd19h.kinsta...s/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf

 

[libertyyne]

This is the 2018 main match report data. It’s has larger number than the charting outcomes data for the same year. Not sure why. Maybe it’s post-soap data and charting outcomes isn’t? Idk. Put its page 8 and 9.

https://mk0nrmpcikgb8jxyd19h.kinsta...s/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf

The charting outcomes report is only reporting on Seniors not previous osteo grads. and doesnt include scramble/ soap.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

View attachment 2540742
So unsure what to think of this or if I am misinterpreting this chart , but out of 7337 graduates 1150 matched AOA, 749 did not match AOA and 5438 did not participate in AOA. Out of the 5438 ~ 5076 matched in ACGME. so ~362 did not end up matching from the pool that applied ACGME only. The total unmatched number would come up to 749+362 =1111 . So the total matched rate comes up to ~85% including military AOA and ACGME and previous graduates. Now this includes the 461 previous graduates, but lets exclude them completely and say none of them matched which is unlikely, but gives us the upper bound. 650 unmatched out of 6876~ 90 percent. Realistically one would think roughly~50% of previous graduates matched so that would mean 87% of current students matched.

Its really hard to make sense of anything the AOA puts out. We never got the numbers to match on the placement thread from last year either.