neuropath info

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Doc013

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im looking for more info regarding direct neuropath programs (that is you apply directly from med school foregoing the path then neuropath fellowship route). i heard that there are a few in the country. i welcome any general info regarding these programs.

does anyone have more info or a link to where these programs are located?

are these spots designed to train for a career in academia?

what sort of pay can one expect as a neuropathologist?

thanks a ton.
 
You can find a list of accredited programs at acgme - http://www.acgme.org/adspublic/

Just go to "list of programs by specialty" and find neuropath in the menu.

Most neuropathologists are academics. There are some at large private hospitals or medical systems, but many of these are quasi-academic anyway. Most private practices do not have enough volume to support a neuropathologist. Theoretically you could use your neuropath fellowship but you would almost certainly have to do general stuff as well, and most groups would probably look to fill another need before they would go that route.
 
Doc013 said:
im looking for more info regarding direct neuropath programs (that is you apply directly from med school foregoing the path then neuropath fellowship route). i heard that there are a few in the country. i welcome any general info regarding these programs.

does anyone have more info or a link to where these programs are located?

are these spots designed to train for a career in academia?

what sort of pay can one expect as a neuropathologist?

thanks a ton.
Click to expand...

a number of years ago we had a very large private practice group with multiple, mostly,community hospitals and we did not need a dedicated neuropath specialist. we had 1 or 2 folks who had done a year of neuropath and that stood us in good stead. we sent out any muscle stuff that needed EM because we did not need that overhead.
I would think you would be restricted to academia or a big city group practice with big hospitals that do lots of brains, etc. and if you are in a big metro area you will probably be approached by the M.E. office about brain cutting.
 
hmmm, it doesnt sound like the best career move. thanks for your input. if anyone else has anything to add, id love to hear it.
 
Neuropathology is a sub-specialty within Pathology -- in order to be board certified by the ABP you need a primary board certification. This can be AP, AP/CP or CP (the latter being theoretical). Neuropathology training programs are two years long, and can be paired with 2 years of AP training (the so-called 2+2 route) or can follow full training in pathology (3 years of AP, 4 years of AP/CP). There are also paths to NP certification for individuals with board certification in Neurology (or Neurosurgery or Psychiatry): 2 years of NP plus 1 year of AP.

There are a few training programs with AP and NP tracks which commit to individuals at the time of the match to provide them with the AP/NP 2+2 path. This is not part of the match (there is not a match for fellowship positions) and happens for clearly committed individuals. As you would expect, these programs are primarily at large academic medical centers with strong programs in both AP and NP.

Neuropathologists are usually responsible for both autopsy neuropathology and surgical neuropathology. The surgical material usually includes all specimens from neurosurgeons, as well as nerve and muscle biopsies. CSF cytologies are done by neuropath at some institutions and by cytopath at others. Sometimes ophthalmic specimens are shared between the neuropath and dermpath services (depending on the type of specimen).

In terms of careers, the most common paths taken by neuropathologists are:
1. Academic institutions, often with a significant research and/or teaching component
2. Large hospitals or practice groups with active neurosurgery groups (these are sometimes found away from academic settings).
3. Practice groups in which there is a moderate volume of neuropathologic material but where the neuropathologist also signs out other material.
4. Forensic settings (NP/FP training) with many larger ME offices having a designated forensic neuropathologist.

Many people following the AP/NP 2+2 track come to the discipline with a research background in neuroscience. They know that they are interested in neurologic diseases, that they like neuroanatomy (required for much of the work) and that this is where they want to focus. This isn't a field that people choose because it is the path to riches and power but rather because it makes them happy and satisfied.

If you think that you are interested in the field, you should find the neuropathologist at your medical school and spend time with her.
 
I agree. There aren't many places where an NP could expect to do nothing but NP. Most jobs I believe include some general surg path to keep you from being bored and the department/practice from wasting money on you -- but even tracking "straight" into NP means developing a general surg path background, so if you followed that track you wouldn't be totally screwed into having no real job prospects. Then there's FP/FP related work as alois indicated, which usually either means being dual FP/NP and working as an ME, or being NP and spending some time at or consulting for an ME and other time at a regular job.

It's just one of those niche subspecialties which is interesting and important, but most people don't have their brains excised or get regular biopsies of them.

I don't know that the AP/NP straight track spots are designed to be any more academic than the usual AP followed by NP (or AP/CP followed by NP) are, but the NP fellowships sound pretty academic/research minded in general as compared to what I hear about -most- other path fellowships.

Pay I can't rate with any degree of firsthand knowledge. Probably in the same realm as any other subspec certified pathologist? Maybe a little higher since there seem to be fewer NP's out there? Though as mikesheree alluded to, a fair number of people seem to do 1 year of a 2 year neuropath fellowship and move on to greener pastures -- they don't get subspecialty certified but a lot of non-NP surgical pathologists are paranoid of NP and are happy to hand their slides across the hall to those folks.
 
^Hey KC shaw what is that picture of in your avatar?

Not only would you likely have to sign out general if you were a NP in private practice, but a few months ago I saw a breast consult that was signed out by Schiethauer, the famous neuropathologist at Mayo. So it looks like you can be forced to do general path even in academics.

You would think a community pathologist's opinion would be at least as good as a academic neuropathologist when it comes to breast biopsies, but maybe not.
 
pathstudent said:
^Hey KC shaw what is that picture of in your avatar?

<snip>

You would think a community pathologist's opinion would be at least as good as a academic neuropathologist when it comes to breast biopsies, but maybe not.
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My avatar pic: Wish I knew, actually. It was sent to me I believe in an email years and years ago. At the bottom is the text "www.hantu.net", which now is some sort of funeral FAQ/website, and now doesn't appear linked to the image. Using http://www.tineye.com/ (a reverse image-lookup search engine) it only seems to be posted on websites out of Taiwan or China. Those websites, and the other photos I saved from the original email, could be interpreted as possible examples of aliens, undead, or black magic type stuff I guess. So... I'm really not certain if it's a hoax image or an odd looking real mummy of some sort. Makes for good speculation though. No known copyright'ish issues with it, anyway.

As for breast vs brain...perhaps nothing should be said.</snip>
 
alois said:
There are also paths to NP certification for individuals with board certification in Neurology (or Neurosurgery or Psychiatry): 2 years of NP plus 1 year of AP
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Does anybody know a neurologist that took this route? I suppose they would be expected to work as a general neurologist and sign out neuropath cases as well? Seems like a strange way to go.
 
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